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Goodbye Jesus

Curious About Your Christian Experience


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Denominations are man made divisions.  They are the result of men following men instead of Jesus. 

 

 

Well thank goodness that the division you created isn't man-made!

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1.  the denomination I tried was fundamentalism WendyDoh.gif

2.  I was fooled into it because I was raised by fundamentalists from the time I was a toddler and add to that I am very autistic so I had no ability to question what I was being told.  Even as I grew up I never questioned it, the autism I have makes me like a robot.  I believe what I am told and do what I am told.  It took years of reading and study for me to start letting myself question things

3.  I did not become a better person I became a worse person!  I became very cold, very judgemental towards others (not because I wanted to judge them but because my fear they would go to hell), very empty and lifeless.  I actually became more "christlike" in the sense of self-sacrificial when I left Christianity and started going back to more traditional native ways, just simply trying to be the best me that I can be and treat the earth and it's creatures the way I want them to treat me, and visualizing dreams, has given more to me spiritually than fundamentalism ever did

4.  I never had a spiritual experience from reading the bible, at church I didn't really feel anything but fear about the sermons, nothing from prayers during my fundamentalism days.....I feel like I've had some spiritual experiences from praying to the great spirit though as through dream visions that perhaps the great spirit gave me.  It's interesting I feel like I have gotten spiritual experiences from certain books, movies, dreams....but not from bible and not from chruch

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First , My references to the bible are to explain my faith as part of it is based on the Bible. Conversion Is not my job That I gladly leave to  the higher power.

 

I am a Berean by heart, The Bereans were a group of people (In the Bible) who were acknowledged.for the way they handled what they were told by those spreading the Gospel. They verified daily  that what they were told was the truth by verifying it in the scriptures,  That is what I have done for 14 years.  That has been my approach to my faith and the basis by which I handle what is called "Christian."  

Thanks. You said you verify your beliefs by studying the scriptures, but I assume you also have real life experiences that verify your beliefs? For example, you might choose the Christlike action and see that it makes the world a better place? And probably you observe things that seem like God's work?

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1.  the denomination I tried was fundamentalism WendyDoh.gif

2.  I was fooled into it because I was raised by fundamentalists from the time I was a toddler and add to that I am very autistic so I had no ability to question what I was being told.  Even as I grew up I never questioned it, the autism I have makes me like a robot.  I believe what I am told and do what I am told.  It took years of reading and study for me to start letting myself question things

3.  I did not become a better person I became a worse person!  I became very cold, very judgemental towards others (not because I wanted to judge them but because my fear they would go to hell), very empty and lifeless.  I actually became more "christlike" in the sense of self-sacrificial when I left Christianity and started going back to more traditional native ways, just simply trying to be the best me that I can be and treat the earth and it's creatures the way I want them to treat me, and visualizing dreams, has given more to me spiritually than fundamentalism ever did

4.  I never had a spiritual experience from reading the bible, at church I didn't really feel anything but fear about the sermons, nothing from prayers during my fundamentalism days.....I feel like I've had some spiritual experiences from praying to the great spirit though as through dream visions that perhaps the great spirit gave me.  It's interesting I feel like I have gotten spiritual experiences from certain books, movies, dreams....but not from bible and not from chruch

That's good you escaped. smile.png

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First , My references to the bible are to explain my faith as part of it is based on the Bible. Conversion Is not my job That I gladly leave to  the higher power.

 

I am a Berean by heart, The Bereans were a group of people (In the Bible) who were acknowledged.for the way they handled what they were told by those spreading the Gospel. They verified daily  that what they were told was the truth by verifying it in the scriptures,  That is what I have done for 14 years.  That has been my approach to my faith and the basis by which I handle what is called "Christian."  

 

 

 

 

 

Historically, the Bereans (also called Beroeans, Barclayans or Barclayites) were a Protestant sect following former Scottish Presbyterian minister John Barclay (1734-1798). Founded in Edinburghin 1773, the Berean Church followed a modified form of Calvinism. It had congregations in ScotlandLondon and Bristol, but mainly merged with the Congregationalists after Barclay's death in 1798.

A new Protestant Christian group began in the 1850s in the United States under the tutelage of Dr. John Thomas. The name "Christadelphian" was chosen as it is believed that those who believe and obey the Commandments of Christ and the Bible as the inspired word of God, are "Brethren in Christ". The original group split, with one group continuing with the name "The Christadelphians" and the second group adding the word "Berean" to become the "Berean Christadelphians". The word "Berean" was chosen to reflect the words in Acts 17, "These (Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so." Christadelphians, and Berean Christadelphians believe in the promises given to AbrahamIsaac, and David concerning the Kingdom of God. They deny the Doctrine of the Trinity, a central tenet of orthodox Christianity, and this refusal to recognize the triune nature of God has resulted in a major impasse between the Christadelphians/Berean Christadelphians and the Protestant, Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Some groups among the Bible Student movement also adopted the name, such as the Berean Bible Students and the Berean Bible Institute. Churches and institutions who adopt the Berean name, usually do so in order to express their desire to reflect the attitude of the Bereans in Acts 17, committing themselves to "searching the scriptures daily."

 

A branch of Calvinism, which is a branch of Lutheranism,  which is a branch of Catholicism, which is a branch of Judaism.   okay then.

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I'm curious about your Christian experience while you were a Christian:

- What denominations did you try?

- What excuse can you give for being fooled?

- Did you become more Christlike at all?

- Did you experience anything spiritual?

- And anything else...

 

Also if you still are a Christian or have switched to some other religion I would be curious about that too.

 

I was raised Methodist. 

 

I wouldn't say I was fooled.  I was raised a certain way and realized they bible stories were just stories like robin hood. There maybe some factual basis but it was long since lost in the legend.  Growing up I like the stories of Greek myths more because they tried to actually explain why things were they way they were in world.  And there was more sex. 

 

I was raised believing that we were called to help those in need as christ helped the poor, sick and lame.  Though that always seemed to happen rarely and in spurts.  Mostly the church was concerned about paying the mortgage. 

 

In church no.  I experienced spiritual things in nature or at home.  I never felt the "flame" in my heart or anything like that. Usually, I slept through church.

 

The first spiritual experience I remember was when praying at home one day.   I was begging god to answer me.  I remember feeling tired and laying my head down on the bed.  I was traveling down a dark tunnel.   When I "woke", I was laying on flagstones.  There was torchlight all around and feet.   Someone knelt and helped me up.  I looked around and saw hundreds of people.  They wore clothing of different styles.  The longer I looked the more I could see beyond the light.  However, They all had my face.   There was no hostility.  It was as if they were collectively saying  "well, we are here.  Ask."   I panicked.  Suddenly, I was going the opposite way in the tunnel.   I woke up on my bed with my heart beating very quickly in my chest. 

 

I knew that the vision, dream, hallucination, whatever was telling me there was no 'god', but there is a spiritual world just beyond what we can sense, and they are there to provide guidance if asked. 

 

After that day, I gradually pulled away from the church.  

 

 

What I found was the Michael Teachings.  http://truthloveenergy.com/   It has been the thing that has helped me become who I am.   

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Thanks for describing that vision, stryper. It sounds like an interesting one. smile.png

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...

First , My references to the bible are to explain my faith as part of it is based on the Bible. Conversion Is not my job That I gladly leave to  the higher power.

 

I am a Berean by heart, The Bereans were a group of people (In the Bible) who were acknowledged.for the way they handled what they were told by those spreading the Gospel. They verified daily  that what they were told was the truth by verifying it in the scriptures,  That is what I have done for 14 years.  That has been my approach to my faith and the basis by which I handle what is called "Christian."  

Thanks. You said you verify your beliefs by studying the scriptures, but I assume you also have real life experiences that verify your beliefs? For example, you might choose the Christlike action and see that it makes the world a better place? And probably you observe things that seem like God's work?

 

I have had several faith related spiritual experience. However they are not something I can discuss in an open forum, If you wish to connect in private message we can continue there

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A branch of Calvinism, which is a branch of Lutheranism,  which is a branch of Catholicism, which is a branch of Judaism.   okay then.

 

Sorry. You have me at a loss What is this about??

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I have had several faith related spiritual experience. However they are not something I can discuss in an open forum, If you wish to connect in private message we can continue there

Thanks. I've noticed that some people use flaws in the bible and their own particular ex-denomination's theology to justify becoming an atheist/materialist. That doesn't make sense to me because it overlooks the importance of experiences. It's like trying to practice science without doing any experiments.

 

In other words, an ex-Christian shouldn't ignore their experiences that tended to validate spirituality simply because they lost confidence in the bible and theology. Like in my case I think it's possible my experiences were psychological but I also think it's possible they were spiritual. But either way, those experiences are important data.

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A branch of Calvinism, which is a branch of Lutheranism,  which is a branch of Catholicism, which is a branch of Judaism.   okay then.

 

Sorry. You have me at a loss What is this about??

 

 

The point is that your comment about denomination is pointless.   What you say you follow is a branch of Calvinism, which was a branch of a branch of a branch.  You are still following a denomination (a recognized independent branch) of christianity.  

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I know my spiritual experiences are very much a part of my belief.  I imagine they have.  That kind of experience would be hard to ignore. They may not have had such experiences. To me, it seem to be more than a disappointment. Some have real anger issues with anything Christian.

 

  Another thing is that spiritual experiences and blessings have been hyped up to the point of absurdity. That's one reason I .have mostly separated myself from the church

 

 

Cliff

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I know my spiritual experiences are very much a part of my belief.  I imagine they have.  That kind of experience would be hard to ignore. They may not have had such experiences. To me, it seem to be more than a disappointment. Some have real anger issues with anything Christian.

 

  Another thing is that spiritual experiences and blessings have been hyped up to the point of absurdity. That's one reason I .have mostly separated myself from the church

 

 

Cliff

I know there are some very crazy churches from reading the experiences of other members. I've learned a lot about Christianity from this forum, because ex-Christians have no reason to hide the craziness they experienced in churches.

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oops, posted comment to wrong thread.

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- What denominations did you try?


   I grew up catholic but tried baptist, methodist, presbyterian, southern baptist, non-denominational and episcapal.


- What excuse can you give for being fooled?


   I wouldn't call it an excuse. I was taught since birth that christianity was my world view. Over time, I questioned that world view because of the atrosities it caused not only throughout history but also today


- Did you become more Christlike at all?


  I would say so. I am much calmer, happier and empathetic than I was when I was a christian.


- Did you experience anything spiritual?


  Yes but it's a bit of a personal question I don't wish to answer. I have had more "paranormal" experiences than most.


 


 


I had a very possitive experience as a christian for the most part. I can't accept a God though who makes no sense and would cause all sorts of problems. Likewise, this includes his followers who have the nagging sensation of controlling everyones lives down to how they should get married, have kids or in what positions they should have sex. 


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Thanks. I've noticed that some people use flaws in the bible and their own particular ex-denomination's theology to justify becoming an atheist/materialist. That doesn't make sense to me because it overlooks the importance of experiences. It's like trying to practice science without doing any experiments.

...

 

Time out.    Your personal experiences are not like a scientist's experiments.  Not at all.  A scientific experiment is repeatable by others and falsifiable.  Your internal experience is neither.

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- What denominations did you try?

   I grew up catholic but tried baptist, methodist, presbyterian, southern baptist, non-denominational and episcapal.

- What excuse can you give for being fooled?

   I wouldn't call it an excuse. I was taught since birth that christianity was my world view. Over time, I questioned that world view because of the atrosities it caused not only throughout history but also today

- Did you become more Christlike at all?

  I would say so. I am much calmer, happier and empathetic than I was when I was a christian.

- Did you experience anything spiritual?

  Yes but it's a bit of a personal question I don't wish to answer. I have had more "paranormal" experiences than most.

 

 

I had a very possitive experience as a christian for the most part. I can't accept a God though who makes no sense and would cause all sorts of problems. Likewise, this includes his followers who have the nagging sensation of controlling everyones lives down to how they should get married, have kids or in what positions they should have sex.

Thanks for the feedback, awworrell. smile.png

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Thanks. I've noticed that some people use flaws in the bible and their own particular ex-denomination's theology to justify becoming an atheist/materialist. That doesn't make sense to me because it overlooks the importance of experiences. It's like trying to practice science without doing any experiments.

 

...

Time out.    Your personal experiences are not like a scientist's experiments.  Not at all.  A scientific experiment is repeatable by others and falsifiable.  Your internal experience is neither.

 

How does the scientist go about designing the experiment? Doesn't he/she have some observations and intuition that lead him to a hypothesis? The experiment is designed to test the hypothesis. Then other scientists try to reproduce the experiment. Gradually induction transforms the hypothesis from "not falsified yet" to "must be true".

 

The point I'm trying to make is that the models of reality are like the stars in the sky. Atheism/materialism is one star and biblical literalism is another star. Some people act like those are the only two stars in the sky.

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- Did you experience anything spiritual?

  Yes but it's a bit of a personal question I don't wish to answer. I have had more "paranormal" experiences than most.

...

awworrell, your info says you are an atheist, but you also have had more paranormal experiences than most. Does this seem like a conflict? (Of course, I realize there are many ways of defining "atheist" and "paranormal".)

 

It seems to me that atheism/materialism is such a sensible and comfortable belief that many people are willing to ignore experiences that should make them question it.

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Thanks. I've noticed that some people use flaws in the bible and their own particular ex-denomination's theology to justify becoming an atheist/materialist. That doesn't make sense to me because it overlooks the importance of experiences. It's like trying to practice science without doing any experiments.

 

...

Time out.    Your personal experiences are not like a scientist's experiments.  Not at all.  A scientific experiment is repeatable by others and falsifiable.  Your internal experience is neither.

 

How does the scientist go about designing the experiment? Doesn't he/she have some observations and intuition that lead him to a hypothesis? The experiment is designed to test the hypothesis. Then other scientists try to reproduce the experiment. Gradually induction transforms the hypothesis from "not falsified yet" to "must be true".

 

The point I'm trying to make is that the models of reality are like the stars in the sky. Atheism/materialism is one star and biblical literalism is another star. Some people act like those are the only two stars in the sky.

 

Regardless, your analogy between your claimed spiritual experiences and a scientific experiment is a poor analogy.  Very poor.  Please acknowledge that, or demonstrate otherwise.

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...

- Did you experience anything spiritual?

  Yes but it's a bit of a personal question I don't wish to answer. I have had more "paranormal" experiences than most.

...

awworrell, your info says you are an atheist, but you also have had more paranormal experiences than most. Does this seem like a conflict? (Of course, I realize there are many ways of defining "atheist" and "paranormal".)

 

It seems to me that atheism/materialism is such a sensible and comfortable belief that many people are willing to ignore experiences that should make them question it.

 

 

The reason I included "paranormal" in quotes. I cannot say if my experiences were part of the natural world or not because I do not know enough about psychology, sociology or perhaps other relevant subjects that may classify the experiences I have had. I only use the word paranormal also because your question was based on things spirtual and being outside the realm of the natural world. It's the only word in my vocabulary at this point I can use to describe something that you may define as spirtual. I am open to notion that there may be something beyond the natural world but I highly doubt it and there is no evidence to suggest that there is. I tendclassify myself as more of an agnostic atheist. There are a number of things I don't know about and my experiences are one of those things I don't know how to classify. Even though I don't know how to classify them doesn't mean I immediately jump to a supernatural meaning. I am fairly confident that over time and with more studying I will find they were part of the natural world all along.

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...

- Did you experience anything spiritual?

  Yes but it's a bit of a personal question I don't wish to answer. I have had more "paranormal" experiences than most.

...

awworrell, your info says you are an atheist, but you also have had more paranormal experiences than most. Does this seem like a conflict? (Of course, I realize there are many ways of defining "atheist" and "paranormal".)

 

It seems to me that atheism/materialism is such a sensible and comfortable belief that many people are willing to ignore experiences that should make them question it.

 

 

The reason I included "paranormal" in quotes. I cannot say if my experiences were part of the natural world or not because I do not know enough about psychology, sociology or perhaps other relevant subjects that may classify the experiences I have had. I only use the word paranormal also because your question was based on things spirtual and being outside the realm of the natural world. It's the only word in my vocabulary at this point I can use to describe something that you may define as spirtual. I am open to notion that there may be something beyond the natural world but I highly doubt it and there is no evidence to suggest that there is. I tendclassify myself as more of an agnostic atheist. There are a number of things I don't know about and my experiences are one of those things I don't know how to classify. Even though I don't know how to classify them doesn't mean I immediately jump to a supernatural meaning. I am fairly confident that over time and with more studying I will find they were part of the natural world all along.

 

If you "do not know" then there is no need to classify them.  They can easily be unclassified based on the "I don't know" thing.

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Thanks. I've noticed that some people use flaws in the bible and their own particular ex-denomination's theology to justify becoming an atheist/materialist. That doesn't make sense to me because it overlooks the importance of experiences. It's like trying to practice science without doing any experiments.

 

...

Time out.    Your personal experiences are not like a scientist's experiments.  Not at all.  A scientific experiment is repeatable by others and falsifiable.  Your internal experience is neither.

How does the scientist go about designing the experiment? Doesn't he/she have some observations and intuition that lead him to a hypothesis? The experiment is designed to test the hypothesis. Then other scientists try to reproduce the experiment. Gradually induction transforms the hypothesis from "not falsified yet" to "must be true".

 

The point I'm trying to make is that the models of reality are like the stars in the sky. Atheism/materialism is one star and biblical literalism is another star. Some people act like those are the only two stars in the sky.

Regardless, your analogy between your claimed spiritual experiences and a scientific experiment is a poor analogy.  Very poor.  Please acknowledge that, or demonstrate otherwise.

Fine. Now let's get back on topic. smile.png (I enjoy debating these things, but I don't want to clutter-up this thread.)

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...

- Did you experience anything spiritual?

  Yes but it's a bit of a personal question I don't wish to answer. I have had more "paranormal" experiences than most.

...

awworrell, your info says you are an atheist, but you also have had more paranormal experiences than most. Does this seem like a conflict? (Of course, I realize there are many ways of defining "atheist" and "paranormal".)

 

It seems to me that atheism/materialism is such a sensible and comfortable belief that many people are willing to ignore experiences that should make them question it.

 

The reason I included "paranormal" in quotes. I cannot say if my experiences were part of the natural world or not because I do not know enough about psychology, sociology or perhaps other relevant subjects that may classify the experiences I have had. I only use the word paranormal also because your question was based on things spirtual and being outside the realm of the natural world. It's the only word in my vocabulary at this point I can use to describe something that you may define as spirtual. I am open to notion that there may be something beyond the natural world but I highly doubt it and there is no evidence to suggest that there is. I tendclassify myself as more of an agnostic atheist. There are a number of things I don't know about and my experiences are one of those things I don't know how to classify. Even though I don't know how to classify them doesn't mean I immediately jump to a supernatural meaning. I am fairly confident that over time and with more studying I will find they were part of the natural world all along.

o.k. that makes sense.

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- What denominations did you try?


 


You mean, what denominations did my dad inform us we would be attending (until they eventually disagreed with us)? Baptist, Southern Baptist, C.O.G.I.C. My parents belonged to the Worldwide Church of God (aka Armstrongism) even through the "Changes" in the 90s, but left when I was about 10 years old.


 


- What excuse can you give for being fooled?


 


My parents bought me a children's bible; I still remember the little long and short vowel symbols written in pencil from when I was LEARNING HOW TO FRIGGIN' READ. Once when I was fighting naptime at about 5 or 6, I looked with awe at the golden afternoon sun shining through my bedroom window and casually declared that god wasn't real. My frightened mother called it the devil trying to get to me at an early age. She and later my father trained it out of me very quickly. Couldn't NOT believe.


 


- Did you become more Christlike at all?


 


Hmmm, toughie. 


I converted to Christianity at the ripe old age of seven after watching a televangelist preach about hell and whatnot. Therefore, not really sure of a before and after comparison. And what the hell is "Christlike" anyway? Did I become a suffering servant? Nope. A whip-totin', anti-oppression religious revolutionary? Comically, I am becoming that post-deconversion.


 


- Did you experience anything spiritual?


 


blush.png


Oh, dear. I have spoken in tongues, seen visions, dreamed dreams...basically all the miracles promised. Except the objectively verifiable ones. Heh.


 


- And anything else...


 


Later, I became was one of the devout ones, the sincere ones. The annoying, "why-isn't-everybody-taking-this-as-seriously-as-I-am," ones. I suffer from a sure case of RTS.


 


-Also if you still are a Christian or have switched to some other religion I would be curious about that too.


 


I am considering Pantheism, but...well, I don't think it would be wise to break up with a longstanding abusive bf and then jump right into a new relationship. 


Get me?

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