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Goodbye Jesus

Need Some Encouragement Folks


ChristianGuy1000

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I would try to identify your own personal reasons for feeling uncomfortable as a Christian. You shouldn't be trying to stump him with difficult theological questions; you should be trying to resolve your own personal issues. Maybe you'll be able to resolve your issues and make Christianity work for yourself.

 

This is what I think, too. Don't do a line-by-line argument, but rather, focus on your own feelings and fears. We understand it's not easy.

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I would suggest to you not to debate a Christian at this stage, they will only confuse you, i suggest jump on youtube watch some debates on there, research and read up on what they are talking about, check their facts.

 

But watching debates on Youtube you will quickly realise, they (Christians) all have the same flawed arguments.

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You really need to investigate the works of Bart Ehrman a professor of religion U of North Carolina. Also visit evilbible.com and you will gradually, and hopefully thoughtfully,  begin to perceive what a crock Christianity is. Have courage.. better days lie ahead. Those people lost in the Jesus cult are some twisted, deluded buggers.

 

The Bible is mainly self validating which is logically incorrect unless its true on the face of it. It isn't. And so saying its true because its in the bible is an absurd naked assertion.

 

The Garden of Eden, the Flood, the supposedly great nation of Israel,  the resurrection...all complete fabricated idiocy.

 

As for YouTube, watch Pentecostal Bedlam video if you want to laugh in derision at the most incredibly  moronic Christian fools you've ever seen. My god how was I ever so stupid....

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I have to agree with the others, there are better ways to debate with christians, if you want to go that route. Don't argue the points in the bible, argue against the bible's validity. I know christianity is a farce, because Hell is a 16th century invention, Original Sin was not in the bible originally, research the Council of Nicea. Learn how the bible was created. Also, keep in mind that if you live pretty much anywhere in america, there is most likely as many churches as there are bars in any given town. I think this speaks volumes, the ONE TRUE RELIGION is also the most advertised religion? What a coincidence! 

 

I don't remember where I heard this, but I always use it. "Salvation is for sale, and everyone's buying!"

 

Edit: oh! and if you're watching youtube videos, I didnt see anyone mention Evid3nc3 he was a hardcore christian, but is a truly smart individual. He was going to college for Computer Sciences, but also had a very solid foundation in physics. Even as a christian, he pretty much understood that "God" put into place evolution and the big bang to start the cycles of life. To me, this means, that he REALLY knew his shit, and as a christian didn't try to say that evolution and big bang was bullshit. Because He was very solid in those studies, and it made perfect sense to him that these "theories" were in deed fact. I'll shut up now, but check it out!

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I'm going to agree with the others here who suggest not debating points in the bible that do or don't make sense. Because that isn't the point. 

 

"Never argue with fools; they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

 

I prefer to invalidate the validity of the bible with history and science first.

 

Sure, if someone asks me what made me begin to question the bible, I'll offer that god seems pretty awful for inventing hell (a totally unnecessary overkill of a punishment if there ever was one) and seemed less compassionate than I was (which shouldn't be so because I'm merely a human and this is supposed to be a loving creator who desires a personal relationship), because I couldn't bear the idea of anyone ever being sent to suffer in hell for an eternity, especially friends, family and acquaintances. Then I read in the Bible about genocides condoned by god, horrible treatment of women, murder of children, disgusting homophobia, etc. and it made me feel physically ill. Even the lovely thought of heaven after death for me and other Christians wasn't enough of a counter-balance to make the whole thing a fair and just system. Life is not just some sick pass or fail test. None of us chose to be born anyway, so we didn't even elect to play some sick game of god's Russian roulette. (And in this case, it's more like all but one of the chambers are full, considering how few people qualify for forgiveness and heaven according to the bible.)

 

But the bible itself is filled with factually incorrect events, contradictions, and out-dated assumptions. It's far from a divine inspiration. If it can't get basic facts right, why would I trust my entire life to believing and obeying anything it says? I'm a much kinder and more ethical person without it. 

 

You are aware that a LOT of history happened before the bible was ever even written? That the earth and humanity is far older than the concept of bible-god or christians are? 

 

I realized I had gaps in my science and history knowledge, and giving myself an internet crash course was a great idea. Then I had a lot bigger of a historic timeline to fill in with extra information than I'd had as a christian. My scientific understanding also grew once I stopped shutting out ideas that didn't fit with my brand of theology. It's been really rewarding to uncover the truth, and it doesn't feel like a chore. I hope you'll find it fascinating too. 

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CG1000, I have a suggestion for figuring things out. 

Belief is not really a conscious choice like picking out socks, it's more of the thing which bubbles up out of our current knowledge and experiences. And changing, or challenging your knowledge and experiences is what will either change your belief or solidify it. 

I recommend writing out, or drawing out, everything that you believe in a sort of network. For instance, I think the bible is god's word (or don't) because of xyz. I believe in the power of prayer (or don't) because of xyz. I believe in the afterlife (or don't) because of xyz. 

It might be an exhausting project, but I think mapping out all of your underlying reasonings could really help you visualize how they all connect with each other to form this shakey belief that you have now. Once you have everything down, feel free to challenge one particular point. Read up on both sides, then decide if you still believe in it or not. Then move onto another point. Belief in anything can be shakey or solid, but I think this would help you have a better grasp of how your own beliefs fit together.

 

Especially when both sides can sound so convincing, ground yourself in what you know to be true. Start there. Not what other people say is true or sensible, what you know in your core is true. Even if it seems miniscule, or doesn't necessarily relate to whether there's a Judeo-Christian God or not, it's the best place to begin.  

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Hi Folks,

 

As you know this is about my 6th or 7th week since my walk away from Christianity

I met with a good friend who talked to me for a good 3 - 4 hours tonight debating Christianity,  I have to say he left me really confused about where I am.

 

He is a Christian and his father is a Minister of a Church so any argument I raised he was able to shoot it down.

 

Here is how it went:

 

1)    Do babies and children go to hell?

No because children are not old enough to understand and make their own decisions to be accountable.

 

2)    Is the New Testament reliable?

Yes because the Old Testament points directly to Jesus and the New Testament.

 

3)    If God is Omnipotent and Omnipresent he created hell, so therefore how can hell be separation from God if he is everywhere?

Hell is separation from God as God chooses not to be in hell with others.

 

4)    Why did God create hell for eternal torment and torture?

God never mentioned hell as eternal torment and torture – Well not really, many people think dying and having nothing when they die is Torture much like the same way being without God will be torture.  God does not tell us a lot about hell.

 

5)    Jesus took the punishment for all our sins – So based upon that to pay our debt should he not be in hell for eternity considering he died a sinner?

No Jesus did not die a sinner at all Jesus was sinless but took the burden of other peoples sin creating a paradox that he could not stay in hell because he himself was a sinner however he could get there because of the sins.

 

6)    As we know the Bible has been edited and re-written many times, do you think God would punish people for not believing when those same people want to believe but cannot because they cannot trust the Bible?

Yes because they should trust the bible irrespective – It’s God’s word and is never wrong.

 

7)    Why would God punish us for eternity in hell for a Finite sin?

It’s not that he wants to punish us, It’s because it’s basically the final straw – God did all he could during our earthly lives after which we will be removed from his presence.

 

8)    Did God create evil?

No God created rules in which he deemed were against what his will was, People going against Gods will are evil.

 

9)    Why did God Punish Job?

Because Job was to act as an example for future generations.

 

10) Why when I started breaking away from God and asked for him to Guide me one last chance did he ignore me?

It’s because for years you have been walking further and further away and you don’t know which way to turn this is of your own making.

 

11) If an Ancient Tribe has not heard about God where do they go?

They will go to heaven because they have now knowledge.

 

12) So what you’re saying is that Christianity should not be preached as people who are ignorant can go to heaven yet those who hear Gods word and reject it will go to heaven?

Yes this is correct, it is because in their heart and mind and soul they will seek God.

 

13) Would it not have been better not to have been born?

No because God gave us free will we then decided to go against it!

 

14) I don’t like or trust the Apostle Paul, He contradicted a lot of what Jesus and the OT said, Prove it (I got stuck here).

15) When God says ‘I AM’ he is meaning ‘Mind your own business’?

No God is saying that is name is the unspeakable name that the taught to Moses.

 

16) Do you believe in the Book of Revelation?

I don’t know.

 

17) Do you believe it is in some way scriptural and literal?

I don’t know.

 

18) If someone decides not to believe in God throughout this life – Although God said he would cast people into the lake of fire for eternity, Do you think at the end he will save everyone?

No because God cannot show his Justice to these people if he saves them anyway?

 

19) What if people in heaven pray to God to forgive them or to take pity, Surely Jesus said anything they ask for he will give them?

Yes but this does not show Gods love if he allows them forgiveness as he has to be a fair and Just God.

 

20) What is heaven like?

We worship and praise God forever!

 

Listen folks this has knocked me for six and is making me unsure of my belief.  I know that all this still gives no actual evidence for the existence of God but is more Apologetics.

 

Can someone refute these?

 

Can someone also tell me why it feels so hard to stop believing in the face of everyone blindly believing it feels like what I am doing is a lie?

 

Cheers.

 

Seems like you are causing this yourself...your angst over all of this.

 

I know it still seems new to you, living a normal non religious life. It is not as I have done that every day of mine. It is perfectly normal to use your own reason to come to the conclusion that they are indeed deluding themselves.

 

I know I can be very cynical and harse but in the end you have a choice. You accept one side the other or come up with your own theory. That is all any of this really is. Prove god doesn't exists? Prove God exists? Now I strongly side with doesn't exists because I did not make any claim that he did for the last 2000+ years and was not looking for him/her/it in the first place. You seem to want to make that same choice badly and come here and claim too.

 

Why then do you put yourself in the position in your newfound idea structure to be challenged when you are so weak in it still. The pull of your other life is strong still and it will be very hard for your if you don't put some distance in between it and you. Talk to your old friends but do not let them debate you or preach to you until you are better equipped to counter what is undoubtedly the same arguments you once used on someone as well. Remember that. All of the weapons of faith they are trying to win you back with (and do not ever doubt they are trying to win you back) you should know and be ready for.

 

The answers to those questions is all the same, not one is real so there is no answer but your or someone elses fantasy. No matter how beautiful the answers they are still just fiction therefore not relevent and a wasteful way to spend your time unless it is for pure amusement and you are not the one falling victim to the lies that answer them.

 

Do yourself a serious favor. Stop thinking about religion for a few days. A month if you can manage. Come here and learn to defend your new idea structure with people who will back you and really start trying to find ways to make sense of the answers that you no longer want to use. Do not waste your time asking pointless lists of questions like above. The answer is always the same, they are invalid.

 

Also change your avatar and make a choice. You either believe or you don't and you make this statement to preface your post here;

 

"As you know this is about my 6th or 7th week since my walk away from Christianity"

 

Change your way of thinking and be the person that walked away from the lies. Be the person that understands they do not have all the answers but fully accepts that one must seek them on their own and that the weakness that is needed for blind faith is no longer necessary for you to wake up and want to LIVE. GO LIVE MAN YOU ARE FREE.

 

 

I will answer one questions with

 

Do babies go to hell?

 

Would you follow a god that gave an entity no choice in existance in a certain realm then also said you suck from the start better not die before you can articulate reason and ask jesus's for his hand in forgiveness and the golden ticket to heaven. seriously better learn to read ASAP. Seems a litle far fetched for a so called loving god. What love causes damnation for one who cannot even articulate their own decision after the fact?

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On a less thought-intensive vein, you could always google ichthyosis to make up your mind. 

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