MindAndWillX1111 Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 Both the religious and lack of religious people need to get along in this world. people need to put aside their differences and work together more to make a better world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 You asked if you thought I'd be scared at the thought of hell if I were actually facing death. I don't think so. I was with both my parents during their last weeks, and I saw that there is a point where they were just "ready" and were done with the suffering and pain. I also work with elderly clients in their homes, and when they reach the point where they are "ready" to go, it seems very peaceful and they seem very accepting, and they normally die relatively soon after that. Interestingly, when people are not "ready" but are getting closer and they know it, they often do get afraid. I've had a couple clients ask me, sounding very afraid, "What's going to happen after I die?" It's always been the nicest, sweetest people too! Of course, I am extremely unqualified to answer such a question, but since they are indeed the nicest, sweetest people, I try to direct them to that and what a wonderful, successful life they have had, raising wonderful kids (which has been true with the people I have discussed this with), a good marriage (again, true with these people), and working hard to take care of their families their whole lives. I can truthfully assure them that they have brought goodness and love into the world through the way they have lived, and that's the ultimate success and they should have nothing to worry about. It doesn't directly answer their question, but it seems better than, "I don't know." Also, I've had a Jew and an agnostic ask me that, so there is no way I'd get into any theology of any type. One elderly lady told me, "I figure when I die, the world ends!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Do any of you guys have any fear still left over from leaving the faith? just wondering. I guess it depends on the particular fear. Fear is an emotion which is often healthy. For example, fear of lung cancer may encourage someone to stop smoking cigarettes. Fears peddled by theists usually revolve around the fear of death, pain and punishment, among other things. Realizing that I am not that important, that pain is a message of harm (to be immediately addressed) and that punishment is to encourage correct behavior within the consensus of society put those fears aside, at least in my world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Yeah, It's been better than ten years gone, and every now and then the indoctrination haunts me, though it's a lot better, a lot easier to deal with than when I first got out. I found that leaving let me ask a lot of questions of myself honestly for the first time. If you think about it you probably just wrecked a key part of your identity (deeply held religious beliefs tend to be core, at least they were for me), That's enough to get anyone questioning pretty much anything.The most important thing isn't just to question, it is to be honest with yourself about the answers you find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Good points everyone. I do not understand how to argue with people who in the same breath believe in the ultimate magical entity, meaning they're not looking for real explanations for things. I wait and see what the future holds for this world. Do not try to find rational debate with an irrational person. It cannot happen. Just accept them as they are and try to let them know you do not accept their doctrine in a respectful way. All any of us can do is wait to see what the future holds... unless you know something we don't. I do know something you do not...I am the creator of all existence, LOL , but I hope we discover something amazing in my time. I'm still young. Well if the smiley face wasn't there I would say you are the most arrogant person in the thread. Kepler space telescope discoverd a couple hundred possible planets that exists in the habitable zone of the stars they surround. I would say that is pretty amazing in our time. 100 years ago there was no space telescopes allowing us to see that there is a greater and greater chance that we may not be alone. Or at least that there may be possible places for us to go that would be similar to earth. Sure not yet but unless you plan on the RAP-CHURR coming or extinction in the next few years we just might make it. I would say almost on the brink of a cure for aids is something amazing. I would say people living longer and healthier with HIV is amazing. I would say my mother being alive because of a new heart surgery procedure a surgeon developed is amazing. What I think is the most amazing is the human spirit not some fake spirit people bow to and worship rather than putting that energy into their lives, their families and their planet. Thankfully there are many that do still. Amazing things are happening all around you if you just take the time to look and open you mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindAndWillX1111 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Let me add this in as well. Coming to terms with my own mortality is very difficult for me. realizing you get one short life in till someone can show me otherwise is not easy to accept at times. I at times get thoughts when I feel pain that god is punishing me or that demons have been sent out by god to chastisement me...sounds absurd, but the thoughts still come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Let me add this in as well. Coming to terms with my own mortality is very difficult for me. realizing you get one short life in till someone can show me otherwise is not easy to accept at times. I at times get thoughts when I feel pain that god is punishing me or that demons have been sent out by god to chastisement me...sounds absurd, but the thoughts still come. You can spend what short and valuable time you have worrying about this or you can do whatever you have to in order to stop doing that. Pondering death or considering it without fear is one thing. I think we all should do that so that we really understand why we should put most energy into living fully. If you believe that some god is punishing you simply for being I would say he does not deserver your tribute of pain and fear. He deserves your back. If god is the one controlling the demons you really are screwed I say turn back and run. When you have had someone brainwashing you that you should fear these things for years it takes time to come back from that. Give it time and try and remember the most important thing in life is life not death. Don't worry you will die just like I will and everyone else that has ever lived and will live at least until someone else can prove otherwise. Don't fear it. Don't wait for it. Just live for it. You already know the end game now write the journey there with your time and actions. You can author a beautiful life to leave to your friends and family to remember when you are gone, a life that you can tell stories of in the late years of our existence or you can be bitter and age in pain. That path is dark. I have seen it rob some of my older relatives of the good years that some of the others are enjoying. take control it is your life and no others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindAndWillX1111 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Let me add this in as well. Coming to terms with my own mortality is very difficult for me. realizing you get one short life in till someone can show me otherwise is not easy to accept at times. I at times get thoughts when I feel pain that god is punishing me or that demons have been sent out by god to chastisement me...sounds absurd, but the thoughts still come. You can spend what short and valuable time you have worrying about this or you can do whatever you have to in order to stop doing that. Pondering death or considering it without fear is one thing. I think we all should do that so that we really understand why we should put most energy into living fully. If you believe that some god is punishing you simply for being I would say he does not deserver your tribute of pain and fear. He deserves your back. If god is the one controlling the demons you really are screwed I say turn back and run. When you have had someone brainwashing you that you should fear these things for years it takes time to come back from that. Give it time and try and remember the most important thing in life is life not death. Don't worry you will die just like I will and everyone else that has ever lived and will live at least until someone else can prove otherwise. Don't fear it. Don't wait for it. Just live for it. You already know the end game now write the journey there with your time and actions. You can author a beautiful life to leave to your friends and family to remember when you are gone, a life that you can tell stories of in the late years of our existence or you can be bitter and age in pain. That path is dark. I have seen it rob some of my older relatives of the good years that some of the others are enjoying. take control it is your life and no others. Good points. I was in the hardcore version of Christianity or what I once called the word of God. I got the idea of demons and Satan being a chess piece from certain Christians, back by bible verses, but I'm sure you can find verses that contradict those ones. I have had dreams being tormenting by demons and they say they have been sent out by god to torment me. looks like these demons are forced to torment me, LOL! It's hard to get rid of these thoughts and somewhat fears. it's easier said then done. this is also why some who leave the faith who do not take it seriously will never understand how hard it is to leave the faith, and the after-math effects when your passionate about the faith and when your whole mind was engulfed by the bible and Jesus and all that stuff....not easy to leave. sure some of you guys know this already. Take Care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Let me add this in as well. Coming to terms with my own mortality is very difficult for me. realizing you get one short life in till someone can show me otherwise is not easy to accept at times. I at times get thoughts when I feel pain that god is punishing me or that demons have been sent out by god to chastisement me...sounds absurd, but the thoughts still come. You can spend what short and valuable time you have worrying about this or you can do whatever you have to in order to stop doing that. Pondering death or considering it without fear is one thing. I think we all should do that so that we really understand why we should put most energy into living fully. If you believe that some god is punishing you simply for being I would say he does not deserver your tribute of pain and fear. He deserves your back. If god is the one controlling the demons you really are screwed I say turn back and run. When you have had someone brainwashing you that you should fear these things for years it takes time to come back from that. Give it time and try and remember the most important thing in life is life not death. Don't worry you will die just like I will and everyone else that has ever lived and will live at least until someone else can prove otherwise. Don't fear it. Don't wait for it. Just live for it. You already know the end game now write the journey there with your time and actions. You can author a beautiful life to leave to your friends and family to remember when you are gone, a life that you can tell stories of in the late years of our existence or you can be bitter and age in pain. That path is dark. I have seen it rob some of my older relatives of the good years that some of the others are enjoying. take control it is your life and no others. Good points. I was in the hardcore version of Christianity or what I once called the word of God. I got the idea of demons and Satan being a chess piece from certain Christians, back by bible verses, but I'm sure you can find verses that contradict those ones. I have had dreams being tormenting by demons and they say they have been sent out by god to torment me. looks like these demons are forced to torment me, LOL! It's hard to get rid of these thoughts and somewhat fears. it's easier said then done. this is also why some who leave the faith who do not take it seriously will never understand how hard it is to leave the faith, and the after-math effects when your passionate about the faith and when your whole mind was engulfed by the bible and Jesus and all that stuff....not easy to leave. sure some of you guys know this already. Take Care. No I don't understand. The strange thing is my parents are hardcore christians. They are christians the way that honest respectful people are. While they are hardcore about their faith, they never pushed it on me. Sure they took my brother and I to church but they never made us listen or forced us to pray or anything along those lines. They always told us they wanted us to make decisions for ourselves they way they did. They did not find religion until they were in their twenties. I never found any because they first thing they did for me was teach me to think for myself. I am very happy they did. You at some point have to stop saying engulfed by bible jesus etc... and seriously take control back. You have to at some point look yourself in the eye (maybe literally in the mirror) and say to yourself "who the fuck is in charge here?" and the answer you give back no matter how you feel is "ME ME ME". Positively reinforce yourself. I know affirmations seem cheesy and useless. I know they seem never to work but I am here to say otherwise. I never thought they worked either until one day they did. I had a bad break up with a partner that I had been with 6 years and it took me down. I felt bad and was doing whatever it took to get right in MY head and put myself back in control. I went so far as to write my own affirmations about what I wanted and needed and tape them up to my bathroom mirror, my car dashboard, and my work office wall. I read them outlout and then I memorized them all. I would feel bad during the day down and depressed and alone and would repeat these and dig down deep. I would make literally make myself feel better. At first it took 100 times or more saying these sometimes to feel anything. In the end I could just think about it for thirty seconds and feel right. Now I don't need that sort of reinforcement in my life. I built a damn of will power up and I release it when I need to win so to speak. The only person I am ever competing against in my mind though is me. We all make out own strongest opponent and fiercest ally and friend all in one. You have to be a lover, warrior, poet, scientist, philosopher, artist, politician, maniac nut job to get by and be happy in this world. At least I do. I want it all and I know I don't have enough time to get it. Somehow that doesn't defeat me it powers me to push harder for what I want and what I can get done in my time here. It is not to leave something behind (I could care less about family legacy only the legacy of human kind) but to experience the themepark in as inclusive of a way as I can. I want it all but I will have to settle for just some. I can tell you it doesn't come right away and in the end you will lose friends living this intense. Find new ones that have the stamina to keep up with fire. Let that fire burn in you and proprel you to anything...everything. Don't waste time on gods heaven hell sin. You know what is right or wrong and if not you will surely learn. Don't waste that tiny time with anything but what you want and of course that which we all must be responsible for. your life is worth living and not wasting time on dying. The dying is already done you are just here waiting to punch the ticket at the door to the unknown but the line is long and in the mean time why not go out and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Amateur said: "But it's hard not to think about how really evil the concept of eternal hell is, and whoever made that up was one evil bastard. And teaching it to anybody, let alone letting young kids know the (made up) concept, is beyond evil." I agree with amateur. Indeed it's hard to imagine anything more evil than the concept of hell. It is so terrible that it is obviously a lie created to control people. What bastards. And the clergy still uses it. In my opinion hell disproves itself because it is so vile. So, I don't worry about. Everything else is mild by comparison. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindAndWillX1111 Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 I have general anxiety disorder. leaving the faith some years ago caused lots of anxiety. Benzo's are the best I heard for anxiety, but some say they are not to be used long term use. some people have been on them for many years from what I read. I also feel more depressed then I ever been. SSRI's help with depression and other things I heard, but I'm persuaded not to take them even know I can easily see a psychiatrist, but to many people on the net say bad things about mental drugs. they cover up the issues. they cause chemical imbalances themselves. they are not good for long term use, only short term use. they stop working in time. some have said they are no better then the placebo effect. some have said psychiatry is a quack science. I cannot help to somewhat agree with them, but the depression feeling and anxiety I feel is making me desperate to try. I already did therapy with no good results. I'm getting to old for this pain I feel. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindAndWillX1111 Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Sorry to keep this topic going still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindAndWillX1111 Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Forget the newer post. it is what is. I am what I am. It seems you got to live with the pain, sometimes the pain never goes away. I cannot say I like being a atheist or the conclusions it has made me come to. to realize your just meat with a brain in your skull and then after 80 or more years of average time you perish and then die sucks to me. I despise these ideas. I really wish I was wrong, but reality has crept in like others things and smashed my mind apart. I cannot really accept the idea we live just to die and that we will be reduced to nothingness...I will never accept it, never as well as some of you have. I am weak and I try my best to bear it. psychiatry medications at best would reduce the pain at best. no one pressured me to take Christianity seriously, it was I who bare that burden. This sounds morbid, but so be it. I'm glad some people who do not believe in souls realize it sucks to have one short existence, to much freaking pain in this world, to many get short handed, all the 10,000's of children who die each day of starvation will be reduced to oblivion, there nothing you or I can do once people are gone. science will never conquer death as some have said just as we will never be able to fly either. I commend all of you guys who live realizing you get one shot. I am weak as said, I cannot accept it so easily along with other things I will not mention that are unrelated to this. This will be my last post in this topic. I sometimes envy the people who believe in a soul and a loving god even if anything tells me otherwise. I cannot even get past the magical stuff let alone there is no good reason to believe in a soul. there are counter reasons not to believe in a soul once you learn more about the brain. Just realize that many people who still believe have a strong emotional attachment to these ideas, emotions will many times win against reason and logic and all that stuff. most of the world believes in a soul inducing some atheists and most Buddhist's have no gods, but still believe in a soul. take this idea away and all magical religions and gods fall apart. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Mindandwill, this about psychiatric meds is a sort of new topic for this thread and I feel a need to respond. Meds of whatever kind can never make the body like it was totally newborn and never damaged. But they can help us cope. That is what psychiatric meds do. Psychiatric problems are physical just as a broken bone. It requires a lot of study to understand but you can find info on the internet and in the library if you look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted August 26, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted August 26, 2013 I like to use an analogy from geometry. From childhood I was taught that 2XL+2XW would solve any problem I ever encountered; but then when I would go to take the test, I would always end up failing it because there would be problems involving circles, triangles, and even the ever-hated trapezoid. My formula didn't work for every problem; it didn't even work for most problems. My formula only worked for rectangles. Then the tests started getting more and more complicated, and when I came across my first octagon, I curled up into a tight little ball in the corner and cried like a little girl. I wasn't equipped to deal with octagons; I only had the formula for rectangles. Once I accepted that my formula wasn't working; I was able to learn new formulas, which led to my being able to solve more problems more efficiently. Don't be afraid to question anything and/or everything. You have a new life ahead of you and you will need to learn how to live it with proper perspective and perception. Questions are the beginning of learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Mindandwill, I hope things are working out for you. Let us know what's on your mind. I can't be helpful with any information on meds, but please keep your doctor informed of your moods and don't be afraid of medications, either. And you are right -- it is terrifying to think of death and eternity. When I'm thinking logically, I'm good with the concept; it's not like people don't die every day and we've all dealt with death in our families. We know that's where we all end up -- logically, we know this. But I think it's normal for humans, with our consciousnesses to be aware of and be frightened of the concept of death and eternity and just what does happen to us? That's why people invented religions to begin with. I do no longer believe in religions or gods, and when I start thinking emotionally, usually late at night, or when I really stop and think about life, it is terrifying. What really does help me is to think of everyone I've know that has died, and it will eventually be my turn, there really is no getting out of it. I'm not worried about hell any more, enough reading about the myth of hell and how religions use it to scare people has taken care of that, so I figure I'll either quit existing and won't be aware of it, or something will happen that we can't even imagine and will just be the next adventure we all go on after we die. I said before in this thread that I work with very elderly people as a caregiver, so I get to deal with seeing mortality up close almost every day. I've seen suffering at the end of lives that makes me shudder (I have personal issues with medicine and doctors that can keep people alive well past reasonable times), and I've seen people get to the point where they want to die and are very ready. I also had a 95-year old man tell me yesterday that the years went so fast, and even 95 years doesn't seem long now. I'm 49 and I agree it's all been amazingly fast. I do believe that even getting to be alive one day is a miracle, and at the same time living for 100 years is never enough. I'm guessing this all sounds really morbid. I just want you to know that you are not alone in this struggle. Like I said, on good days, when I'm being very logical, I'm really ok with my one life and quite amazed I'm here. But there are times where I am truly overwhelmed with the thought of NOT being here, or the thought of any type of eternity is equally overwhelming. I don't think our brains are meant to understand or easily accept either death or eternity. But you aren't alone with the struggle, and none of us are if we can find someone to talk to, or we can write in these posts and let some of the thoughts out. Please keep writing. Peace to you, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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