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Beliefs Affect Perception


Ravenstar
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     So does that mean you really can choose to believe in god (at least when you wear special glasses)?

 

          mwc

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Each person creates his own reality, apparently.  That's about all the freedom we have in this world.  It's what makes each person special.  How boring it would be if we all had the same beliefs and perception.  I think this faculty is what makes humans so creative and innovative.  It's the basis of individuality.  It's also the basis of humor.  I certainly don't think it's an illness.

 

I think delusion is considered a disease only if it makes the person suffer.

 

Our institutions are desperately trying to make everyone believe and perceive the same reality.  People are much easier to control this way.  And society functions better, I must admit.  But I'm all for personal freedom and don't care much about society.  We're not ants.

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  • 2 weeks later...

          A consensus of belief creates truth       Truth is a delusion,

 

Are you really this messed up?

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          A consensus of belief creates truth       Truth is a delusion,

 

Are you really this messed up?

 

 

No different than...."there is a consensus that GLOWBULL warming is real". wink.png

 

 

Completely different.  With global warming we have large quantities of hard evidence.  There were very good records on the amount of natural ice in the last hundred years and how is it melting.  We also have good evidence on the historical climate shifts in the past.

 

Facts are not delusion.  Facts are the opposite of delusion.  We are comparing fact-driven-belief with "beliefs that are held despite their conflict with the facts".

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Delusion creates perception       Perception creates belief          A consensus of belief creates truth       Truth is a delusion,

  Thank you, and yes it is interesting.

 

I have to correct you on this though; "A consensus of belief creates truth"

 

umm.. no   That is a logical fallacy called argumentum ad popularum.. which is latin for when people use the popularity of something to support said thing as valid.

 

Not long ago most people believed the world was flat, didn't make it true now, did it? For most of history people believed that bad spirits caused disease... not true. The truth is that disease is caused by many factors, the main ones being viral or bacterial infections. Whether we believed it or not doesn't matter. This is the difference between belief and the scientific method... the scientific method is used to find out the truth, regardless of any person's belief about any particular subject, and demands very stringent protocols, evidence and intense review before stating something as truth (call a Scientific Theory) it is also always subject to revision if more facts are discovered. It's as close as humans can get to truth.

 

A lot of people believe a lot of stupid things.. the number of believers does not make those things true.. it just make more people stupid.

 

Truth stands on it's own.. it doesn't need believers. What is true, is true.

 

Now when you get into philosophy.. it gets stickier. But I'm only a dilettante in philosophy, just starting to read, Descartes, Neitzche, et al, etc.. and it's not light Sunday afternoon reading  lol

 

The point is that what we CHOOSE to believe affects our perceptions of the world... and if we choose to believe things that aren't true then our perceptions are distorted. For some this is mild.. I would say most, but for others it descends into delusion, and that can be dangerous. So, the question becomes.. how do we KNOW something is true? For me I can't accept anything without investigation and evidence. If something is true then it was true yesterday (the sun is a electromagnetic nuclear reactor) today (yup, still is) and tomorrow (it's highly improbable that the sun will morph into Apollo and his fiery Chariot, led by Eos, tomorrow morning).

 

But being a Douglas Adams fan, maybe it will  :D

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Let me clarify something

 

I am a retired blue collar neck.

 

I have trouble spelling Philosophy much less understanding it.  What I say is as much a question as an answer.

 

 

"I have to correct you on this though; "A consensus of belief creates truth"

 

I understand what your saying and I agree. But what I see is "A consensus of belief creates truth."

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          A consensus of belief creates truth       Truth is a delusion,

 

Are you really this messed up?

 

 

No different than...."there is a consensus that GLOWBULL warming is real". wink.png

 

 

Completely different.  With global warming we have large quantities of hard evidence.  There were very good records on the amount of natural ice in the last hundred years and how is it melting.  We also have good evidence on the historical climate shifts in the past.

 

Facts are not delusion.  Facts are the opposite of delusion.  We are comparing fact-driven-belief with "beliefs that are held despite their conflict with the facts".

 

 

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/24/quantifying-the-consensus-on-global-warming-in-the-literature-a-comment/

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/07/17/that-scientific-global-warming-consensus-not/

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/05/30/global-warming-alarmists-caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims/

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gDErDwXqhc&feature=player_embedded#t=0

 

 

You got anymore evidence dogma you can show me to refute?......wink.png

 

My previous statement stands. 

 

If I do I will let you know.

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          A consensus of belief creates truth       Truth is a delusion,

 

Are you really this messed up?

 

 

No different than...."there is a consensus that GLOWBULL warming is real". wink.png

 

 

Completely different.  With global warming we have large quantities of hard evidence.  There were very good records on the amount of natural ice in the last hundred years and how is it melting.  We also have good evidence on the historical climate shifts in the past.

 

Facts are not delusion.  Facts are the opposite of delusion.  We are comparing fact-driven-belief with "beliefs that are held despite their conflict with the facts".

 

 

You fed the troll.  How'd that work out for ya'?

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"The point is that what we CHOOSE to believe affects our perceptions of the world... and if we choose to believe things that aren't true then our perceptions are distorted."

 

In some cases we don't exactly choose what we believe. Like the brainwashing of children. But the belief distorts perception just the same. bill

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True.. and indoctrination is a tough thing to overcome. But at some point in one's life I think every adult should examine what they learned in childhood, and challenge it.

 

Otherwise you aren't really an adult, are you? You most certainly are not self-determined.. but then we get back into the whole free will thing, and that is a philosophical land mine. :)

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          A consensus of belief creates truth       Truth is a delusion,

 

Are you really this messed up?

 

 

No different than...."there is a consensus that GLOWBULL warming is real". wink.png

 

 

Completely different.  With global warming we have large quantities of hard evidence.  There were very good records on the amount of natural ice in the last hundred years and how is it melting.  We also have good evidence on the historical climate shifts in the past.

 

Facts are not delusion.  Facts are the opposite of delusion.  We are comparing fact-driven-belief with "beliefs that are held despite their conflict with the facts".

 

 

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/24/quantifying-the-consensus-on-global-warming-in-the-literature-a-comment/

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/07/17/that-scientific-global-warming-consensus-not/

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2013/05/30/global-warming-alarmists-caught-doctoring-97-percent-consensus-claims/

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gDErDwXqhc&feature=player_embedded#t=0

 

 

You got anymore evidence dogma you can show me to refute?......wink.png

 

My previous statement stands. 

 

 

Did any of those website refute the evidence on historical ice melts?  Glancing at them it looks like "nope".  If you didn't refute it then you didn't refute it.  Data is not dogma.

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          A consensus of belief creates truth       Truth is a delusion,

 

Are you really this messed up?

 

why are you so fucking rude!!!

 

 

Sorry, I didn't realize that was so rude.  If you really believe this relativism then there is a cure.  You can get help if you want it.  But if you love your relativism then you are not going to change.  It's your life so you can trap yourself as much as you wish.  Perhaps you have had it for so long that you don't realize there is any other way.

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Well your two "file not found"s are very convincing!  Who can defend against that?

 

Glaciers use to be found all over the world.  They are shrinking all over the world - mountain ranges everywhere.  Your 2009 article was written before several antarctic ice shelfs collapsed.  Yeah, real convincing.  

 

If you want to find a secular Calvinist look for the guy who says that pencils are magic and $600 = $0.  Try checking your local mirror.  You might see him there.

 

Clearly your beliefs affect your perception.

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Hmmm....Ever hear of the Medieval warm period?

 

 

 

Yes.  What does that have to do with the documented global ice melt?

 

 

Just like today...likely much warmer..

 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm

 

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/11/evidence-for-a-global-medieval-warm-period/

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period

 

Even critics have a hard time with it and try to sweep it under the rug.  

 

 

Yep....you have your belief....JUST LIKE  A CALVINIST. jesus.gif

 

 

Are you trying to tell us that Calvinists reject faith and believe only what is supported by evidence?  Not likely!  People described in the original post allow beliefs to define their worldview which in tern shapes their perceptions.  People who do that you must protect their beliefs from the facts.  The alternative way is to accept facts no matter what beliefs they challenge.  Now when confronted with the documented ice melt some people reject the facts for their belief and others let belief die due to the facts.

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Beliefs definitely shape your perception. Someone I know had a long distance (mostly electronic) love affair that petered out. Over time he constructed a delusion that she really loved him and fed that delusion with the occasional text or voice mail that she sent him. It was a lot of drama for him and ended in a face to face meeting with her. The reality of her wanting to avoid him in person finally started poking holes in his delusion. I think he is over her. Though she still texts him. The bitch. lol.

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No...your evidence uses data that only applies to your beliefs.  Any other you ignore.  You reject the other data that does not confirm your beliefs.  

 

This is simply not true.  When you lose a debate your resort to false statements about your opponent.  You offered two websites marked "file not found" and a web page from 2009 that said Antarctic ice was increasing however right after that there was a number of massive ice shelfs that collapsed so the article was wrong.  Perhaps you project your own flaw.

 

 

 

I said that was like people who believe in global warming.  You said, or at least made an assertion that it was based on solid science and I showed there was disagreement in the scientific community.  So NO there is no consensus on GLOWBULL warming.  And arguing with you about is like arguing with a Calvinist.  You use the closed circular arguments.  The contrary evidence be damned. 

 

I said it was based on solid fact of the documented ice melts.  You have not refuted these facts.  What the heck about consensus?  I really don't care what % of scientists believe something.  Show me that the ice is not melting.  Show me data.  Show me fact.  Do you hear Calvinists asking for facts or data?  Your contrary evidence is "file not found".  How was that my fault?

 

 

Ah heck, look at it with your own eyes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850

 

Are the secular Calvinists praying to the atheist God to hide the glaciers?  Where are the glaciers going?

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"The point is that what we CHOOSE to believe affects our perceptions of the world... and if we choose to believe things that aren't true then our perceptions are distorted."

 

In some cases we don't exactly choose what we believe. Like the brainwashing of children. But the belief distorts perception just the same. bill

OK  Don't we all have distorted views? None of us live in a vacuum?

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"The point is that what we CHOOSE to believe affects our perceptions of the world... and if we choose to believe things that aren't true then our perceptions are distorted."

 

In some cases we don't exactly choose what we believe. Like the brainwashing of children. But the belief distorts perception just the same. bill

OK  Don't we all have distorted views? None of us live in a vacuum?

 

 

Sure.  By our very nature we must have distorted views.  But we can choose to reject evidence to protect our beliefs or to reject false beliefs when confronted by evidence.

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