Beliefs Affect Perception

[CliffordStamper]

Sorry, I didn't realize that was so rude.  If you really believe this relativism then there is a cure.  You can get help if you want it.  But if you love your relativism then you are not going to change.  It's your life so you can trap yourself as much as you wish.  Perhaps you have had it for so long that you don't realize there is any other way.

 

It is not my relativism.   It belongs to the world  I have been trying to deal with what I got, what I see.

I used to argue absolute truth and what I got was relativism. Now I mention relativism and I get is a ration of shit for it. 

 

 

I believe absolute truths exist, but we can not "know" them.    Even if known there are those who will not accept them.

That is why I say proof is in the eye of the beholder.  Because that is a reality of the world.

[Ravenstar]

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v399/n6735/abs/399429a0.html

 

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/global-warming-real-has-consequences-part-i

 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm

[directionless]

This quote jumped-out to me:

"Beliefs form in order to minimize our surprise about the world," said neuroscientist Phil Corlett of the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom, who was not involved in the study. "Our expectations override what we actually see," Corlett added.

In other words, a person is biased to observe what is unsurprising. If I am surprised to observe a leprechaun in the mushroom section of the grocery store, then this research indicates that I might delude myself into thinking the leprechaun is actually something unsurprising like a cucumber.

[mymistake]

 

And MM rejects evidence contrary to his beliefs. 

 

 

Ironically, you can't demonstrate your claim.  You should have that projection looked at before it gives you complications.  (and no, "See what I mean" isn't going to demonstrate your claim either)

 

 

 

.

[mymistake]

 

 

 

And MM rejects evidence contrary to his beliefs. 

 

 

Ironically, you can't demonstrate your claim.  You should have that projection looked at before it gives you complications.  (and no, "See what I mean" isn't going to demonstrate your claim either)

 

 

 

.

 

 

More secular Calvinism. 

 

 

  

 

Ocean levels are up 7 inches since 1950.  That isn't my belief.  It's documented fact.  How do you explain away this fact?  No amount of character attacks directed at me will lower the ocean levels.  All over the world glaciers are retreating and ice sheets are collapsing.  It's not my opinion.  It's documented fact.  Smearing me won't change these facts.  So do smear away about how I reject what doesn't match my belief.  The irony is very entertaining.

 

Right after that pice you cited from 2009 was written a section of Ronne-Filchner shelf the size of Rhode Island collapsed in early 2010.  So who is in denial?  Who is being religious?  Who is letting their belief shape their perception?

http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/antarctica-ice-sheet-break-up-47011404#slide-1

Your article was dead wrong.  I don't say that because of my previous beliefs.  I say that because of the evidence that later shaped my ideas.  What, you didn't realize that I didn't believe in global warming back then?  I guess you should have checked your facts before blindly attacking.

[mymistake]

 

 

I live in a sea coast town.  The levels here have not risen.  You must be reading propaganda.  There has been no evidence here.  The bridges are still at the same height the water levels are still at the same level as they had been since the 1920's when they were built.  OH..and last I heard, there is only ONE sea level....

 

Oh..but if you want something published here ya go:

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/15/there_is_no_scientific_consensus_on_sealevel_rise_say_scientists/

 

 

I guess you didn't read it.

 

"During the 20th century, sea levels as measured by tide gauges rose about 17cm, just short of 2mm a year."

 

It is a fact that ocean levels rose 7 inches since 1950.  But thank you for playing the part of the guy who rejects fact in order to cling to his beliefs.  Now what did the OP say about beliefs affecting perception?

[mymistake]

 

 

 

 

I live in a sea coast town.  The levels here have not risen.  You must be reading propaganda.  There has been no evidence here.  The bridges are still at the same height the water levels are still at the same level as they had been since the 1920's when they were built.  OH..and last I heard, there is only ONE sea level....

 

Oh..but if you want something published here ya go:

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/15/there_is_no_scientific_consensus_on_sealevel_rise_say_scientists/

 

 

I guess you didn't read it.

 

"During the 20th century, sea levels as measured by tide gauges rose about 17cm, just short of 2mm a year."

 

It is a fact that ocean levels rose 7 inches since 1950.  But thank you for playing the part of the guy who rejects fact in order to cling to his beliefs.  Now what did the OP say about beliefs affecting perception?

 

 

The ocean levels in my area have not changed..

 

Then why did you cite the Register article by Lewis Page stating that the ocean rose 17 centimeters during the 20th century?  Were you trying to make my point for me?

 

 

..so say both old timers and local marine science professors at local University of West Florida. OH..and last I read, the land here is very stable....not prone to uplift or lowering. YOU the BELIEVER in the cult of Global Warming.  But that's not my problem. 

 

 

It's not true.  I follow the evidence.  That isn't Calvinism.  It isn't a cult.   I asked you for evidence and you make distractions.  So who are these professors at U of WF and what is their evidence that the ocean did not rise since 1950?

 

 

 

 

 

For good measure...mustn't forget this  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/globalwarming/6636563/University-of-East-Anglia-emails-the-most-contentious-quotes.html

 

 

What does any of that have to do with the fact that the ocean level rose 7 inches since 1950?  Does "stick to the facts" = "secular Calvinism"?

 

 

It turns out it's nine inches in Key West over the last 100 years.

http://www.floridatrend.com/article/15814/a-rising-concern

 

Will more data help or are you going to continue to reject it?

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=8720030

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=8720218

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=8721120

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=8723170

 

Are all these websites secular Calvinists?

[mymistake]

 

Try coming down and measure for yourself.   

 

Do you also want me to travel back in time to 1950 and measure it back then for myself too?  

 

 

 

I have actually discussed this with people who are closest to this, people who work in the water and around the water line.  There has been no significant/measurable climb in sea level.

 

 

The article I cited says that the sea walls in Key West are too short.  The high tide surf washes over them.  Some streets in Key West flood after storms when this use to not be the case.  Why would they build their sea walls and streets too low?

http://www.floridatrend.com/article/15814/a-rising-concern

 

 

From the article cited in the OP:

" . . . but the new research suggests delusions — unfounded but tightly held beliefs — can turn the tables and actually shape perception. People who are prone to forming delusions may not correctly distinguish among different sensory inputs, and may rely on these delusions to help make sense of the world, the study finds."

 

and

"The result confirms findings from previous studies that delusional individuals have less stable perceptions of the world."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/delusional-people-see-world-minds-eye-214913801.html

 

 

So which is more reliable - the hundreds of years of studies done with precise instruments along with photographic evidence that the infrastructure in Key West are far too low . . . or . . . some anonymous guy on the internet who says "trust me" and claims that he has talked to some anonymous professors from U of WF?  

 

 

I'm not going to waste bandwidth watching conspiracy videos.  If you have a reason to reject the evidence I cited then you can state the reason here.  Without a reason the whitewashing is just a distraction.  Remember "see what I mean" and "they are secular Calvinists" are not reasons to reject evidence.

[bornagainathiest]

Belief affects [our] perception [of reality, not reality itself]. 

 

Reality is independent of our beliefs about it.

 

Ok, on the quantum scale all sorts of weird shit happens.  The act of observing a quantum-scale event also influences it, so the act of perceiving affects quantum reality.  However, our beliefs don't affect reality at any scale.

 

This can be easily demonstrated to be so by asking a Hindu, a Buddhist, an Atheist, a Jew or a Christian to measure the position or velocity of a photon under experimental conditions.  In every case, regardless of their belief system, each person will interact with the photon in the same way, affecting it's quantum nature by observing it.

 

So, belief is irrelevant to reality. 

Reality (whatever that is) is not affected, altered, changed or influenced in any way by what we believe about it.  However, what we choose to believe about reality MUST conform to the way reality operates or else our unwise beliefs will kill us.

 

A historical case in point is Zeno's Arrow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno's_paradoxes#Arrow_paradox

All Zeno had to do to test the truth of his argument (that the arrow never reaches it's target) was to stand between the archer and the target.  If Zeno's belief was a true one about reality he couldn't be harmed.  If his belief was false, he'd die.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

 

 

[mymistake]

 

 

You and many people are misunderstanding why the water may APPEAR to be rising.  The lower keys are on old coral with a think layer of sand on top.  When you build a sea wall, lay a street, build a large brick or stone building, especially the way they did back in the early 1900's, those structures can sink.  The sea walls here in Pensacola are still where they were in the 1920's because there is a very hard layer of limestone that is essentially of the same strata that make up the lower portion of the Appalachians.  It is very hard and very stable.  Unless you are on the beach, the mainland area of Pensacola is on the limestone thus no sinking.  Even with a layer of sand, the limestone is not that deep, in some places it is about 6 feet, other places it is deeper but building don't settle or sink as they do on many islands.  On Key West, it is not the water rising, but the streets, buildings are sinking and the old coral base is eroding.  It had been eroding since LONG before there ever was a human settlement on those island.

 

 http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://everybodylovesrocks.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/usgs-fl-keys-lithology.gif&imgrefurl=http://everybodylovesrocks.wordpress.com/category/florida-keys/&h=491&w=756&sz=65&tbnid=_-lttdOQlADUzM:&tbnh=81&tbnw=125&zoom=1&usg=__A2gebzJfXfVlSRUzmaEwLBrIZuI=&docid=fA6L6GTuquI46M&sa=X&ei=7IsmUtbpOOen2AXL_4HICg&ved=0CDsQ9QEwAQ&dur=59  

 

The link above shows a map of the geology of the islands.  Notice, Key West and the rest of the lower keys are on a bed rock of coral.  That is comparatively soft.  

 

Key West has a similar problem to New Orleans, in that New Orleans has a problem with streets and buildings that actually settle and slowly sink into the ground.  

 

 

So why is the ocean level rising all over the US?  Is the whole country built on soft coral that is sinking? 

 

Remember the sea level is rising in Pensacola:

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=8729840

 

They were not recording data there in 1920 but today the low trend is higher than the high trend of the first year they did record data.  Overall it's been going up bit by bit.  Even on hard limestone the ocean level goes up over time.

 

 

What has the ocean been doing in Portland, Maine?  It's been going up, up, up since they started recording data in the 1910's.  Is Portland Maine built on soft, sinking coral?

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=8418150

 

What is it doing in Manhattan?  Same thing.  Is Manhattan sinking under the weight of all those skyscrapers that are founded in the bedrock?

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=8518750

And that data goes all the way back the the mid 1850's.  Why would they fake the wrong data back when nobody had ever imagined a link between ocean levels and pollution?  

 

North Carolina tells the exact same story.

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=8659084

Is the whole East Coast built on sinking coral?

 

It's true in Galveston, Texas too.

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=8771450

 

 

Are you going to accept the facts or are you going to cling to your belief despite all the facts?  That is the bottom line of beliefs affecting perception.

 

 

Hey it's true in San Diego, Cal.

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=9410170

 

It's true in South Beach Oregon

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=9435380

 

I guess the West Coast is built on soft Coral too.  And don't give me that myth about Cal falling into the sea.  It doesn't work that way.

 

Seattle Washington has the same story

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?stnid=9447130

 

I'm sure you can come up with a lame excuse for every single one.

[mymistake]

But then you ignore other sources:

 

Why do you lie about me?  Is this just a trolling game to you?

[mymistake]

 

YOU are the one who accused me of using links to conspiracy theory sites on this thread.

 

 

Do you think that is unfair given that you just dismissed every source of information tied to the US government?  "That is a government source...from the same government that wouldn't lie about WMDs or Gas?"

[gall]

Each person creates his own reality, apparently.  That's about all the freedom we have in this world.  It's what makes each person special.  How boring it would be if we all had the same beliefs and perception.  I think this faculty is what makes humans so creative and innovative.  It's the basis of individuality.  It's also the basis of humor.  I certainly don't think it's an illness.

 

I think delusion is considered a disease only if it makes the person suffer.

 

Our institutions are desperately trying to make everyone believe and perceive the same reality.  People are much easier to control this way.  And society functions better, I must admit.  But I'm all for personal freedom and don't care much about society.  We're not ants.

 

Everything about most of the world we live in is a system of control. I accept almost nothing I read or hear and try to limit my acceptance of anything to what I see and can prove with empirical data or experimentation. I use argument and rhetoric to ask and answer questions that I do not know answers to yet or want to learn more about. Anything more is opinion and while I have tons of those they really don't help anyone but me since all of you have tons of your own.

 

We are not ants, but when you let the systems of control get so large and powerful that they lord over your "hill" like you are ants I would always keep an eye on the sky for that shoe you know is coming to crush you.

 

Society does not I repeat does not function better in systems of control. It functions best with education and inclusion for all.