I Get It

[CliffordStamper]

      I get  it. . .   You've been hurt. . . Your angry and not without reason,  Who wouldn't be!!!! You kept stepping out in (faith) and getting knocked down.  They say if you let them in (it )will help you. You let them in (Spill your guts). You tell them about your life your doubts and fears and they say your problem is you.   You sin , your gay,  you have sex out side of marriage, You associate with "Bad" people.  You don't tithe. You don't  follow their rules.  They judge and / or reject you.

   In many cases it is as painful as loosing a loved one. A spouse or child. And the years ,maybe decades of your life  wasted, stolen, lost.  .
 
I have been there done that, bought the shirt and have the scares to prove it. I know what it's like ,so angry you want to swing at something. But what?

 

It's People?? It's book????  That changes nothing  In fact it just makes it worse.  

 

You need somebody, anybody  to hear you ,feel your pain tell you it's going to be better It's going to be alright

 

It's going to be better ... It's going to get better.  It will be alright down the road. But you have to get past the anger   Not for IT    Not for them,    but for yourself.

 

 

       Sincerly  Yours

     Cliff Stamper 

[Fweethawt]

K...

[Ravenstar]

Whatever... I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

If you are saying I don't have a right to be angry at religion... you are wrong. If you believe that I don't have a right to be angry at certain religious people, you are wrong.

 

The ENTIRE point isn't about wanting to 'sin', or tithe, or whatever. It's about promises made, supposedly by an omniscient creator.. that his people would be blessed. They are not. They are no different, and in some cases much worse than others. The institutions are corrupt and greedy and divisive. The entire legacy sucks.

 

I'm not angry at christianity because I wanted to 'sin'.. you freaking idjit. I'm angry because it didn't live up to MY morality... and it was supposed to surpass my little human heart. It does not.

 

I'm not angry at christians because I'm gay, or cheap, or any of those things.. I'm angry because on the whole (not every individual) they are the most backstabbing, delusional and hateful people I have met. Their beliefs create a culture of judgmentalism and ignorance that is stunning.

 

Most of the time I'm not even angry... and after careful and thorough investigation and heartfelt, honest study I found out it is a bunch of crap... crap that has a negative effect on society. I get angry when I see the crimes perpetuated by religion, the hatred, the excuses for war and intolerance. That is a healthy anger, because it's against injustice and it motivates me to help those subject to this horridness.

 

I don't need you to hear my pain and anger.. I don't give two shits about your pity. Don't pity me - I am no victim, I finally found some peace, and understanding of the world that makes sense and I have been able to release the existential shame and guilt that comes with religion. I found freedom, and I am a better person for it. I didn't even leave the church out of anger, but out of incredulity and the insult to my intelligence. I couldn't swallow the bullshit anymore. I got angry later.

 

YOU are the one who isn't hearing... you post constantly with your preconceived notions of what atheists, agnostics, pagans buddhists, hindus and deists really feel, think, do and are. Good grief.. do you really believe we run around 'sinning' all the time? You arrogant, self-satisfied, hypocritical prick.  Read Margee's Testimonial.. if you can't HEAR the anguish and the struggle and the honesty there then I fear you are far too gone to understand anything. Your empathy switch is broken. Typical.

 

You are the one with the delusion..and your very obvious fear that maybe we actually have found some damn happiness and a life that makes sense to us... without your god.

[Geezer]

Bless your heart. You are totally clueless. Before you decide to go on a mission trip to bring the lost back into the fold you might want to do your homework first. Your post implies you know the reason folks here walked away from the religion they were affiliated with; but your words indicate you clearly don't.

 

Most of the folks here left because they researched their religion and found out it just wasn't true. The bible isn't true. No god, no jesus, no sin, no hell, no heaven, no devil, no demons. It is all a man made pile of B.S. The only way religion survives is by brainwashing their adherents. All religions are cults and the only way they can continue to exist is to function as a cult. Lie, indoctrinate, tell more lies, continue to indoctrinate and hope the sheep don’t ever look behind the curtain.

 

 

We are here because we peeked behind the curtain and found out there wasn’t anything there.

 

[Jds22]

No, you don't get it.

 

I'm not mad at god.

I'm not mad at any pastors I've had over the years or any church members.

I didn't leave Christianity so I could lead a life of sin, because it was to hard, or because I am rebelling against authority.

I have a good life. I have a great wife and 2 awesome sons.

 

I left because I no longer find the evidence convincing.

 

Pretty simple really.

[florduh]

I'm not sure what this is about. Yes, for most people who leave the faith there is an anger phase. People are angry at being duped, and they are angry at themselves for falling for it. We get over it. I doubt anyone would leave their god simply because of individuals in a particular congregation. We leave because we have learned too much about the core of the belief system. We discovered that it is bunk. Ultimately, we are much happier living in reality as opposed to ancient superstition. Those who consider this their mission field and attempt to drag us back to the insanity are not met with a smile and open arms.

 

The Bible is the basis for Christianity, and upon examination, it is unreliable for many reasons. The various competing doctrines that grow out of various interpretations of that flawed book are based on a muddy mythology. Christianity is pervasive, but it is at its core, crap. We can, however, wise up and get over it. Can you?

[CliffordStamper]

Ravenstari

 

 

CAN HELP YOU.

 

i WILL TAKE MY POINTER TO THE LITTLE TRIANGLE BESIDE MY NAME AN THEN TO   ignore   THE INCERT YOUR SCREEN NAME AND PLACE YOU ON MY IGNORE LIST AND YOU DO THE SAME

 

 

PROBLEM SOLVED

[florduh]

PROBLEM SOLVED

 

 

Actually, I can solve the problem even more easily. 

[mymistake]

I had to step back to read that.  Wow, big letters.  Were you talking about yourself?  The angry phase usually lasts just a few months.  Most of us are already past that.  Usually only new deconverts are angry.  There is no sin.  Gay isn't a sin.  Mating isn't a sin.  Apparently you don't get that.  I don't associate with bad people because I don't want to.  Ewww.  Most ex-C members have been past the anger for years.

 

You've been there and done that?  Well I don't understand how you can go back to the religion if you realize it is false.  But whatever floats your boat.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[ExCBooster]

YOU are the one who isn't hearing... you post constantly with your preconceived notions of what atheists, agnostics, pagans buddhists, hindus and deists really feel, think, do and are. Good grief.. do you really believe we run around 'sinning' all the time? You arrogant, self-satisfied, hypocritical prick.  Read Margee's Testimonial.. if you can't HEAR the anguish and the struggle and the honesty there then I fear you are far too gone to understand anything. Your empathy switch is broken. Typical.

 

You are the one with the delusion..and your very obvious fear that maybe we actually have found some damn happiness and a life that makes sense to us... without your god.

This bit right here.

 

You know something else? Not everybody on this site IS actually ex-Christian, as I'm sure you know, CliffordStamper. In that, I'm like you. Unlike you, I was never Christian at all. I wasn't raised in any church or belief structure, and I've never been part of any religion. I'm an atheist. My whole life.

 

So, from that standpoint, let me do your research for you, and explain what it's like to not be Christian. Exactly the same as being Christian, but with less Church and more freedom. Unlike you, I have the freedom to interact with people who don't believe the same things I do, so I know that I can't make sweeping assumptions that have been spoon-fed me by some authority that I trust. Let's get some of that interaction in right now.

 

Have you really talked to anybody who wasn't Christian about what they really believed? And listened to them? I have to guess not, given how ignorant that tirade up there sounds. I'm not an atheist because I want to "sin" (a culturally-defined concept if there ever was one). I'm an atheist because despite living in a society where 80% of the people around me are Christian, and about 80% of the people I interact with are Christian, and 80% of my friends, and there are Christians who go door to door to convince people, Christians who slip pamphlets in books (seriously, don't do that, they're cheap and acidic, and can hurt the book over time), and Christians who have whole TV channels, and Christians who yell things while standing on boxes, and Christians who have newspaper columns, Christians who have whole newspapers, Christians who "witness" all the time to people around them, Christian radio stations, Christian businesses that are really loud about being Christian and use that as a marketing point, Christian American football players... you get the idea... I have never, ever, despite quite a lot of debating experience, seen a sound argument FOR Christianity.

 

I think the ex-Christians on this site, IF they are angry, feel angry for being treated like dirt by people and an ideology, and being cheated by a myth (that collects 10% of people's incomes, not to mention time and heartache). I'm on this site because I've seen people go through this, and I want to do what I can to help. It's an ethical motivation.

 

I'm not angry, Clifford, the question is, why are you?

 

EDIT: I'll PM you, reply if you want to talk.

[Blake]

I'm sorry Clifford, but you don't get it.

 

I do appreciate the kindness in your gesture of reaching out.

[CliffordStamper]

I'm not sure what this is about. Yes, for most people who leave the faith there is an anger phase. People are angry at being duped, and they are angry at themselves for falling for it. We get over it. I doubt anyone would leave their god simply because of individuals in a particular congregation. We leave because we have learned too much about the core of the belief system. We discovered that it is bunk. Ultimately, we are much happier living in reality as opposed to ancient superstition. Those who consider this their mission field and attempt to drag us back to the insanity are not met with a smile and open arms.

 

The Bible is the basis for Christianity, and upon examination, it is unreliable for many reasons. The various competing doctrines that grow out of various interpretations of that flawed book are based on a muddy mythology. Christianity is pervasive, but it is at its core, crap. We can, however, wise up and get over it. Can you?

I did not say one word about going back to Christianity, I haven't said that anywhere in this forum. And I won't  Had I not been labeled "Authentic Christian Believer" when I signed  up here you all would have taken this thread a whole lot different    It's OK    Only an idiot would open a hornets nest and not know they will get a sting or two.

 

I won't argue / debate the bible, not with anyone. I won't argue/debate Doctrine.. I have not and will not defend any part of Christianity. Show me one place where I have and I'll leave!!!

[CliffordStamper]

 

PROBLEM SOLVED

 

 

Actually, I can solve the problem even more easily. 

 

Yea you could have me expeled banned what ever. If you feel thats what you need to do ,by all means do it.

[RankStranger]

I appreciate your effort, Clifford. You don't 'get it'. But I think you're getting just a little bit closer.

 

Again I ask the mods that you let us keep the troll. He's kinda clueless and ham-fisted, but I think he kinda means well. He isn't hurting anybody and he IS doing a pretty good job of stirring up some discussion.

[CliffordStamper]

I'm sorry Clifford, but you don't get it.

 

I do appreciate the kindness in your gesture of reaching out.

Then work with me help me understand

[florduh]

Rank, no need to worry about me dropping the hammer. I'm rather long suffering.

[CliffordStamper]

Rank, no need to worry about me dropping the hammer. I'm rather long suffering.

Guess I could go talk about the movies and weather, and the unstable middle east. But I can do that anywhere.  Or I could just leave like those Christians do

 

If you have something else ,please let me know..

 

 

Sincerely

 

Cliff

[RankStranger]

Rank, no need to worry about me dropping the hammer. I'm rather long suffering.

Thanks. Personally I'd like to see more Christians around here. I don't want the place to turn into an echo-chamber. And we have a constant stream of angry new apostates who need christians to kick around.

[new2me]

Clifford,

 

I am honestly confused by your original post.  Are you trying to point out that some people are angry, and that moving past that anger would be a healthy thing to do?  I think the 'Authentic Christian Believer' stamp can cause some people to act more adversarial than they might otherwise be, but using large type and trigger words (like "sin") don't help your case.  It sounds too similar to other Christians who have stomped around our house and denounced us for being filthy unbelievers.  I am assuming that this was not your intent, but I really don't understand what you were trying to convey here.

 

Others have mentioned that many people go through an angry phase as part of their deconversion.  That is normal and it is healthy to process those emotions.  I think it would be unhealthy to linger for a long time in that phase, but everyone needs to deal with it in their own way.  On the other hand, there is nothing unhealthy about feeling angry because of injustice.  Religion is at the root of much injustice in this world, and I think that will always get my dander up, no matter how long it has been since my deconversion.

[bornagainathiest]

 

I'm not sure what this is about. Yes, for most people who leave the faith there is an anger phase. People are angry at being duped, and they are angry at themselves for falling for it. We get over it. I doubt anyone would leave their god simply because of individuals in a particular congregation. We leave because we have learned too much about the core of the belief system. We discovered that it is bunk. Ultimately, we are much happier living in reality as opposed to ancient superstition. Those who consider this their mission field and attempt to drag us back to the insanity are not met with a smile and open arms.

 

The Bible is the basis for Christianity, and upon examination, it is unreliable for many reasons. The various competing doctrines that grow out of various interpretations of that flawed book are based on a muddy mythology. Christianity is pervasive, but it is at its core, crap. We can, however, wise up and get over it. Can you?

I did not say one word about going back to Christianity, I haven't said that anywhere in this forum. And I won't  Had I not been labeled "Authentic Christian Believer" when I signed  up here you all would have taken this thread a whole lot different    It's OK    Only an idiot would open a hornets nest and not know they will get a sting or two.

 

I won't argue / debate the bible, not with anyone. I won't argue/debate Doctrine.. I have not and will not defend any part of Christianity. Show me one place where I have and I'll leave!!!

 

 

Hasty words, Cliff!

 

In post #25 of the 'Punk Ass Kids game' thread you offered your interpretation of Leviticus 20 : 13.

 

"Lev 20,13 does exist but it does not command anyone to kill!"   Your words.

 

Sorry, but that's clearly a defense of Christianity - by virtue of it being a defense of the Bible.

.

.

 

 

Cool it, Cliff! 

You're coming over as a textbook example of a troll and the BIG, BAD BANhammer's poised and ready!

 

BAA

[CliffordStamper]

 

 

I'm not sure what this is about. Yes, for most people who leave the faith there is an anger phase. People are angry at being duped, and they are angry at themselves for falling for it. We get over it. I doubt anyone would leave their god simply because of individuals in a particular congregation. We leave because we have learned too much about the core of the belief system. We discovered that it is bunk. Ultimately, we are much happier living in reality as opposed to ancient superstition. Those who consider this their mission field and attempt to drag us back to the insanity are not met with a smile and open arms.

 

The Bible is the basis for Christianity, and upon examination, it is unreliable for many reasons. The various competing doctrines that grow out of various interpretations of that flawed book are based on a muddy mythology. Christianity is pervasive, but it is at its core, crap. We can, however, wise up and get over it. Can you?

I did not say one word about going back to Christianity, I haven't said that anywhere in this forum. And I won't  Had I not been labeled "Authentic Christian Believer" when I signed  up here you all would have taken this thread a whole lot different    It's OK    Only an idiot would open a hornets nest and not know they will get a sting or two.

 

I won't argue / debate the bible, not with anyone. I won't argue/debate Doctrine.. I have not and will not defend any part of Christianity. Show me one place where I have and I'll leave!!!

 

 

Hasty words, Cliff!

 

In post #25 of the 'Punk Ass Kids game' thread you offered your interpretation of Leviticus 20 : 13.

 

"Lev 20,13 does exist but it does not command anyone to kill!"   Your words.

 

Sorry, but that's clearly a defense of Christianity - by virtue of it being a defense of the Bible.

.

.

 

 

Cool it, Cliff! 

You're coming over as a textbook example of a troll and the BIG, BAD BANhammer's poised and ready!

 

BAA

 

I don't think I was defending the Bible. I was, however, sharing my interpretation of that verse.  But I dropped.  Leave it to the mods If they say it was then I'm out of here. If nothing else you will know I'm a man of my word.

[florduh]

Don't run off before we even know why you came here. Your posts are all over the place. Can you focus a little bit?

[stryper]

 

I'm sorry Clifford, but you don't get it.

 

I do appreciate the kindness in your gesture of reaching out.

Then work with me help me understand

 

 

Well cliff, Ravenstar's post tries to do that.    And she was actually holding back.   

 

Margee's testimonial is another great one. 

 

You will never have the exact same experience as someone else.  You will never be able to experience what they have they way they did.   

 

That said,  in order to get some measure of understanding,  you have to drop everything you think you know.  This post clearly shows you have not done that yet. 

 

I suggest you sit in the testimonials section and read about 2-3 pages of posts without commenting.  That was one of the first things I did when I came here. Once I did, I realized two things.  1) there are people who felt the way I did and do.   2) it was okay to not be christian.  

 

It was then that I began to heal.   

 

I don't know you.  I don't know what has happened in your life.  But,  If you truly want to understand, than you need to read the testimonials.   Then you may begin to understand.

[bornagainathiest]

Don't go on my account man!

 

I won't hold you to that.  But just be a tad more careful about what you write and how you write it, ok?

 

2 Peter 1 : 3 - 9

Titus 1 : 6 - 9

1 Timothy 2 & 3

 

Galatians 5 : 22 & 23, NIV.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentless and...  self-control."

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[stryper]

Don't go on my account man!

 

I won't hold you to that.  But just be a tad more careful about what you write and how you write it, ok?

 

2 Peter 1 : 3 - 9

Titus 1 : 6 - 9

1 Timothy 2 & 3

 

Galatians 5 : 22 & 23, NIV.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentless and...  self-control."

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

This post just goes to show that even in the midst of the all the BS and ancient propaganda  there is some good stuff in the bible.    Course that could probably be said about Mein Kampf too.