Christianity And Sexual Repression

[godkiller]

One of the things that drives me absolutely crazy about fundamentalist Christian teaching and upbringing of children is the way it distorts what a healthy sexuality really is. I was a virgin until I was 22, but I struggled with so much guilt over having sex that it destroyed my relationship with my boyfriend at the time. I later struggled to come to terms with my non-heterosexuality (I consider myself to be pansexual). Exploring the truth about non-heterosexuality beyond the Bible was the beginning of my eventual deconversion. 

 

During my deconversion process, I also learned about rape culture and became dedicated to equality/feminism. I have long been horrified by the way females are treated by Christian organizations and churches. Before I completely gave up looking for a church, I would rule out a potential church by how many women were on their pastoral staff--this means 99.9% of churches were off the list. I just couldn't go to a church that was still practicing the only-men-can-be-authorities crap, among other similarly degrading teachings. 

 

One of my childhood church friends (still a Christian) posted this link on Facebook today. I know why my friend posted it, she has 2 young girls and is very much the stereotypical fundie mom. I was heartened that so many people in the comments called out the BS/hypocrisy of the woman's article, but there are still too many people defending this crap. One commenter said she is in high school and thought the article was wonderful, ending her comment with, "I constantly pray for the man that I will fall in love with as well, and that he will be raised in a good Christian home, and be taught things such as you are teaching your sons now." I guess she doesn't realize she's saying she wants a man who thinks it's the woman's job to control his sexuality by not "tempting" him.

 

I do research this a lot online but there seems to be a surprising lack of deep discussion about it. As a healthy, sexual, non-hetero woman from a Christian background, I am passionate about creating a culture where boys and girls can grow into informed, healthy sexual beings themselves. Please feel free to share related FB posts, articles, thoughts or personal experiences about sexual repression in Christian culture and its effect on the world at large.

[kolaida]

Wow, when I was reading it, I couldn't help but thinking, "Wow, how snobby and judgmental!"  I waited four years longer than you and sorely regret it.  What's done is done, though. Still, I'm sometimes horrified at the level of sexual repression Christianity promotes.  

[MissingLink]

I've seen that in my newsfeed as well...!   It's that mentality that helps perpetuate "rape culture" - the view that women cause men to "sin" and have impure thoughts.   Gah!!  It is so infuriating!! 

 

But I loved how some people in the comments pointed out the hypocrisy and double standard of the writer posting pictures of her own sons shirtless and in swimsuits while she tells girls not to post pictures of themselves scantily clad.  

 

It's all a bunch of BS.

[godkiller]

I've seen that in my newsfeed as well...!   It's that mentality that helps perpetuate "rape culture" - the view that women cause men to "sin" and have impure thoughts.   Gah!!  It is so infuriating!! 

 

Rape culture is one of those things that can't be "unseen"--once you understand it, you see it manifested all over the place, forever. It's scary how pervasive it is because that means it will be that much harder to eradicate. And of course it wouldn't be so pervasive if there weren't so many ignorant people out there encouraging it by their denial of its existence. 

[RaLeah]

Ah, yes. I remember all that. 

 

I waited until I was 23, and I was in a long-term relationship. I purposefully waited, even though I didn't consider myself a Christian anymore (I was somewhere in the deist / atheist phase still though.) My parents and siblings married before they were 23, and I never wanted to ever allow them to lord it over me that they waited longer than I did. Seems silly I cared so much about that back then. 

 

But it's damaging, marrying so young and with so little experience. I think it's so important now to be sexually compatible with a partner, to be open and honest, and to have a similar sex drive. (I even had one boyfriend I adored, but our bodies just didn't fit together very well sexually--I'll just say it hurt. Size matters, and bigger isn't always better for some female bodies. Physical compatibility matters.)

 

It also didn't work out with me and another partner because he liked stuff I didn't feel physically or emotionally comfortable with, and I wanted some intimacy stuff he probably thought of as boring. (Not FIFTY SHADE OF GRAY or anything, but just basic favorite stuff. We both deserved partners who most enjoyed what we most enjoyed.) I still consider that relationship a healthy experience for both of us -- we found out what we liked and didn't like and honed our knowledge of what we wanted and didn't want that I'm sure we both used later. 

 

Christians don't talk a lot about sex in graphic enough terms to even prepare people to speak openly with a partner about it. They just say it's beautiful and wonderful between spouses, and you should wait until you're married to experience it. 

 

That's not very helpful. And it's actually pretty damaging. A lot of people who feel romantically attached and infatuated mistake those feelings for long-term compatibility, and they get married so awfully young. And a lot of them end up divorced. A lot of the times with kids. 

 

And yes, telling women it's their job to be modest and casting the female as the temptress not only unfairly puts all blame or responsibility on women, it takes power and autonomy away from men, who should instead feel empowered to accept their own desires as well as responsibility for their own actions. 

 

And I can't fail to see how this contributes to the "Madonna / Whore" complex, how it encourages men to view women as cheap and sexy or appropriate wives and mothers they can take home to meet their parents. This is an unhealthy duality that the church really serves to perpetuate. 

 

Don't even get me started on the Christian men who had sexual experience and still hoped to find a virgin to marry. Just ew all the way around. 

 

I do wish our language had a word for "not virgin" but our language is still pretty victorian. I'd propose the term "gnostin" (pronounced NAW-stin) as in "knowing or being knowledgeable of" and rhyming with virgin. "Experienced" is too vague, and "whore" or "slut" is too judgmental. Just "one who is sexually experienced" should have a word, right?

[LifeCycle]

Yup. You nailed it (no pun intended). Christianity's influence on sexuality has hurt a lot of people. Pretty much everything is taboo. It's treated like such a "dirty" subject that minds become shaped to only see it that way. It can completely crush a person's sex drive. It can also cause so much infighting within one's self (which is probably more common) that you're in an endless cycle of frustration and guilt.

 

Simply another reason why breaking free of Christianity is liberating and truly freeing.

[Thurisaz]

I'll be honest and admit I partly have problems with this whole "rape culture" thing... I do agree that the view of women in the US is totally fucked up but regarding some things I've seen listed as examples of (promoting) rape culture I cannot but wonder "Huh? Sure that stuff is damn braindead but discriminating against women that much? Really there's much worse stuff out there...". It may be because Germany - at least regarding public discussion, politics and mass media - totally leans into the opposite direction

 

But yeah, that article is such a hypocritical piece of crap.

[RaLeah]

Also... thank you, godkiller, for starting this topic. I think sexuality is a huge part of being human, and I remember how obsessed the church seemed with sexuality--but so focused on the politics of it they didn't discuss the important basics of it. 

 

So I also want to share what I learned and live by on my own--these are my own rules for my own life, and should not necessarily apply to everyone, they're just the ones I live by personally:

 

In a long-term committed relationship: Have sex with your partner whenever they want it, even if you aren't in the mood or you're sleepy. It means a lot to them, and it means a lot to the relationship.

 

If you aren't in the mood, GET in the mood. You can do it. Give it a few minutes and you can get yourself involved. Don't just lay there. Never ever roll your eyes and act like you're doing a favor. Get your head in the game and respond with enthusiasm, passion, and creativity. Remember that it would hurt your feelings to be turned down / rejected by your partner and respond with love and passion if they instigate. 

 

Make sure you instigate yourself sometimes, even if you're in a stressful time. Sex and intimacy are the glue that holds a relationship together with a special intimacy that everything else can't make up for. (And that includes providing money, acts of service like chores or grocery shopping or cooking, gifts, or just telling someone you care. Sex shows it, and shows it in a way you aren't showing anyone else.) 

 

Take the time to really enjoy and appreciate your partner's sexuality. Compliment and appreciate. Admire and glow. 

 

Even if your partner is too tired or stressed out, physical touching is still nice for connection. Be aware of your partner's response to the gestures though, and if they are too upset about something, don't take it personally. Sometimes just a hug or kiss on the shoulder or holding hands can be a supportive physical reminder of the intimacy you share. 

 

Don't let a long time pass without sex. If it's been a week or longer, try a little extra effort to kindle the flames. If your sex life goes dormant, you'll feel like roommates instead of romantic partners. If it's been a while: women can feel intimate with a man who is interested and listens to her, is affectionate and loving, takes his time. Men respond to visual stimulation (make up, fixed up hair, sexy clothes) can be a strong cue that you're up for sex; a nice dinner or bottle of wine, compliments, and a little flirting are appreciated. If there are special circumstances that mean you can't be together sexually (travel, medical, etc.), discuss it so you're both on the same page. 

 

Be a generous partner sexually. There might be some things that aren't your favorite, but your partner enjoys a lot. Indulge your partner. After all, if they feel happy, so will you, and that's part of the fun. Learn what your partner likes most. Learn the areas they find most pleasurable, but stay creative too. 

 

Choose a partner who feels the same way. You can be with someone who is loving and giving, or you can choose a sugar daddy / gold digger or otherwise "taker" kind of person who will leave you feeling emotionally exhausted. Choose someone who is giving too, who enjoys making you happy and keeps it as a priority.

 

Respect yourself and take good care of yourself. Emotionally, physically, etc. Stay in shape the best you can, exercise, and eat healthfully. Don't "let yourself go" even though you're comfortable with your partner. Look nice, be pleasant. Sure, you can still lounge around together, but take some time out of the week to look nice for each other, set some time apart to spend one-on-one romantic time too. 

 

Don't allow your partner to disrespect you, and don't disrespect yourself or them. Don't nag, don't dig, don't be sarcastic. Fight fair if you argue; stay rational and stick to facts and how you feel about the facts if you argue. Never accuse on motive (listen!), and never ever call each other names. Ever. If someone calls you a name, stop the disagreement immediately and point it out, and say there's no need for that. Keep your voice soft, but firm. If you're too tired to finish an argument, you can stop and declare a truce until the morning. Agree on these terms when you are awake, calm and sober, and stick to them together. Reserve the right to say, "I'm too tired, and we're talking in circles, let's go to bed and finish this tomorrow." Sometimes clearer heads the next day can quickly and kindly settle any disagreement. Don't let yourself say anything awful you'll want to take back later, and if you do, apologize as soon as possible and admit you were wrong. 

 

Remember no one can read your mind. If you want something or you're upset about something, you have to communicate that verbally. Never give the silent treatment. If your partner wants a little space or seems quiet, give it to them and don't assume they're angry at you. If you sense something is bothering your partner, say, "You seem upset. Is everything okay?" If they shrug or shake their head, just say, "Well, if there's ever anything, you know you can talk to me about it whenever you're ready." And then back off. If it doesn't resolve in a few days, wait until you're both in a calm and relaxed state, and gently bring it up again. If it's work stress or something else, you'll usually find out here. If you sense it's about your relationship, ask, "Is there anything I did that's bothering you?" And then listen and stay calm. 

 

Remember that you and your partner are not the same person, as much as you care for each other or love each other. Sometimes you'll be surprised to learn new information about what your partner assumes or what you do. Empathize with your partner's concerns or assumptions, and then explain your own. It's okay to acknowledge differences; it's also okay to find a happy compromise or accommodation. 

 

Most essentially: Know yourself. Know what you won't compromise on, no matter what, and make those things clear to your partner beforehand. If hitting, hard drug abuse, alcohol abuse, cheating, etc. are deal breakers for you, state that clearly and early on. (Not necessarily the first date, but once you know it's getting serious.) If you want kids / don't want kids, want marriage / don't believe in it, etc. you need to figure this out for yourself, and what your own boundaries are, and then share those early on before they become an issue. 

[rach]

It's a shame that fundamentalist Christianity is so ashamed of the human body!  My fundamentalist adoptive parents were neurotic about nudity on tv and stuff.  It really was unhealthy but they were taught to be ashamed of their bodies and embarrassed about nudity and sex.  This is a sad way to be brought up and unhealthy and confusing.  I come origionally from an indigenous culture.  In our culture you don't need to be all covered up.  I have no concept of "scantily clad" and maybe that's due to my cultural background.  Now I do like clothing to be classy, not trashy, but to me there is no shame in showing some skin.  Think of neytiri the indigenous woman from avatar.  She is pretty scantily clad but still looks classy and beautiful like artwork.  She would look pretty silly if she were all covered up the way fundamentalists would like.  A body should be like a canvas, like art to be decorated.  I also love noserings and other piercings and some kinds of tattoos (if they're elegant), to my parent's horror!  Anyway it's very cultural, indigenous women through the ages have walked around with bare breasts and didn't feel worried about it. 

[amateur]

Sex is beautiful.  Bodies are beautiful.  Love between two people is beautiful.

 

I read the post on the "scantily-clad photos" and a good number of comments.  The strangest comment I read said something like, "I don't know how teenagers think because my daughter is only 10!"  Huh?  Wasn't she a teenager once?  Did she just shut everything down until she was married and is now dependent on her 10-year-old daughter to let her in on those mysteries?  I'm almost 50 and can still remember knowing howing I thought as a teenager -- generally driven up the wall by my raging hormones!  It's part of life and part of that age, it's perfectly healthy and normal!  I think it's sad when people want to shame teenagers into thinking that what they are going through is not a perfectly normal part of development.  It's not always easy and it's not always fun (raging hormones), but it is perfectly normal and healthy.

[ExXex]

No way this can't be serious she can't really be posting all these topless photos in an article about modesty wtffff. I like how the commenters are trying to point that out tactfully haha. I find it disappointing most of them are 'shammmee the boy's bodies are on show too SHAAAMMMEEE ' when you could look at it as... beach pictures are fine, pyjama pictures are fine, articles about how twisted your knickers get about all this are gross and shameful.

 

I've seen quite often in churches (and in my country's history - it's a very backwards view), virginity seems to be fetishised, you call most of niche requirements of your partners in the bedroom fetishes right? And I think it does untold damage to victims of sexual assault, the church teaches that sex carries a TAINT so it follows even if you have that sex forced upon you, you are still TAINTED. Yuk.

 

I don't think personally I've been screwed (lol) up too much by the church's teachings on this, I wish I could've avoided my guilt at the pathetic attempt at compromise; 'it's not sin if you love them even if you're not married' but I'm glad I had an excuse to take things slow and wait until I was ready that some others didn't have.

I think the churches attitude that a submissive woman is a good woman did get slightly too deeply ingrained though, I'm only just figuring that though helping others is in my nature I don't have to do it nicely and quietly and all the time.

[greylight]

gokiller, thanks for the post! Your thought processes about sex sounds really similar to my own during my deconversion. Unfortunately, coming from those distorted views on sex in my background has left me with some hang ups surrounded it. I was able to work through a couple of them, thank gawd I have a patient and understanding boyfriend.

[mymistake]

 

I've seen that in my newsfeed as well...!   It's that mentality that helps perpetuate "rape culture" - the view that women cause men to "sin" and have impure thoughts.   Gah!!  It is so infuriating!! 

 

Rape culture is one of those things that can't be "unseen"--once you understand it, you see it manifested all over the place, forever. It's scary how pervasive it is because that means it will be that much harder to eradicate. And of course it wouldn't be so pervasive if there weren't so many ignorant people out there encouraging it by their denial of its existence. 

 

 

I don't understand.  What exactly to you mean by "rape culture"?

[Geezer]

 

Sex & God: How Religion Distorts Sexuality

by Darrel Ray ED.D.(Author)

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sex-God-Religion-Distorts-Sexuality/dp/0970950543/ref=pd_sim_b_1/188-5217689-2218943

[greylight]

 

 

I've seen that in my newsfeed as well...!   It's that mentality that helps perpetuate "rape culture" - the view that women cause men to "sin" and have impure thoughts.   Gah!!  It is so infuriating!! 

 

Rape culture is one of those things that can't be "unseen"--once you understand it, you see it manifested all over the place, forever. It's scary how pervasive it is because that means it will be that much harder to eradicate. And of course it wouldn't be so pervasive if there weren't so many ignorant people out there encouraging it by their denial of its existence. 

 

 

I don't understand.  What exactly to you mean by "rape culture"?

 

 From wikipedia

"Rape culture is a concept which links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society,^[1] and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, or even condone rape.^[2]

Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, and trivializing rape."

 

This is why when society says things like "Oh, she was dressed like a slut. She was asking for it." it reinforces the accepted norm that women who dress a certain way, act a certain way (i.e. they are sluts, they are attention-whores) And therefore the blame is put on the victim rather than the perpetrator. It may be eaiser for the crime to go unreported because the victim will blame themselves and feel ashamed as if they did soemthing wrong.  The victim is never to blame, and society needs to learn to place the blame on the person who commited the crime.

[Thurisaz]

Sex is beautiful.  Bodies are beautiful.  Love between two people is beautiful. [...]

You don't happen to know a way to teach that to German women somehow?

 

(Sorry couldn't resist...)

[ExXex]

From my experience, if you don't see rape culture everywhere (perhaps you think maybe people who trivialise rape do it because they are unfeeling dickheads rather than that they're victims of some pervasive culture brainwashing thingy) then YOU ARE ONE OF THE RAPISTS. So whenever the term is thrown around I get a bit on edge, it's an emotive phrase that seems tied up with a lot of absolutes, I can understand why some (men maybe especially) are wary/confused when the phrase gets used.

[Thurisaz]

If that's pointed at me, I do understand (I think?) what's meant by it... and by and large I agree, much of what is often seen as... well... conservative gender roles and such, and what's connected to them, is at least close to objectification. And it sucks, no doubt about it.

 

I do think, however, that there's crap happening on the other side too. Naturally, everyone tends to primarily perceive the part of the crap that's directed against his/her own group, which makes a rational evaluation of the entire thing still more difficult.

 

If you ask me, there's really only one way to get out of this cold gender war for good. A massive long-term educational effort that makes sure that people are told realistic gender... well dunno, I'll call it "images" so I don't have to talk about roles

 

Of course many people will resist that... some instinctively resist any change no matter what it is, many on their respective side will perceive it as an attack against their side, et cetera, ad nauseam. Humanity sucks.

[stryper]

here is an intelligent conversation. 

 

[midniterider]

here is an intelligent conversation. 

 

 

Nice boobs. Now I can't help but think that the term "rape culture" originates from man's natural tendency to want to fuck everything that moves. It's that limbic system thing that drives us to find any reason (including getting married) to fuck. 

[midniterider]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF2P-7FHyew

[mymistake]

here is an intelligent ironic conversation. 

 

[mymistake]

 

 

From wikipedia

"Rape culture is a concept which links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society,^[1] and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, or even condone rape.^[2]

Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, and trivializing rape."

 

This is why when society says things like "Oh, she was dressed like a slut. She was asking for it." it reinforces the accepted norm that women who dress a certain way, act a certain way (i.e. they are sluts, they are attention-whores) And therefore the blame is put on the victim rather than the perpetrator. It may be eaiser for the crime to go unreported because the victim will blame themselves and feel ashamed as if they did soemthing wrong.  The victim is never to blame, and society needs to learn to place the blame on the person who commited the crime.

 

 

Okay.  I get the impression that trivializing rape use to be a much bigger problem in the US during previous generations.  From time to time we still see in the news that somebody tried it and they get condemnation for it.  (Example the judge who recently sentenced a statutory rapist to 30 days and now has to fix his blunder)

[Sybaris]

It's a shame that fundamentalist Christianity is so ashamed of the human body! 

 

 

I lived in Japan for 11 years and got very attuned to the contrast between the West and Japan regarding natural body functions and the associated needs. It seems where ever there's an Abrahamic cult people have such fucked up views about sex and the human body. 

[Thurisaz]

 

 

Sex is beautiful.  Bodies are beautiful.  Love between two people is beautiful. [...]

You don't happen to know a way to teach that to German women somehow?

 

(Sorry couldn't resist...)

 

Very simple...German men need to TAKE CHARGE........

 

As a piece of sarcastic humor I can grin about that, but seriously... if one tried that he'd end up in jail faster than he can say "oh shit".

 

Fuck it, why do we Germans have to push everything to its lunatic extremes?!