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Goodbye Jesus

dealing with the anger


Guest Zoe Grace

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Guest Zoe Grace

i left ExC because I was becoming too rabidly angry instead of healing from the anger. ExC had become a "godless church" and felt like the same thing I had in Christianity, only in reverse.

 

So I left. I visited a couple of times. This last time to go into full out bitch-rant mode on a couple of interactions with my grandmother. Someone teased me commenting about how being away from ExC really helped my anger lol. It was obviously sarcasm. :lmao:

 

The only one that can help my anger is me. By choosing every day which battles I will fight, and which I will ignore. By choosing what I will respond to, what I will rant over, what I will quietly contemplate. Avoiding a website won't do that. It only covers up the problem.

 

The interaction with my grandmother made me realize there is still a LOT of pain there. And it's not an issue of whether I come to this site or not. Avoidance doesn't really make something go away. I would perhaps be best served, to rant...in moderation. Not bottle, but not feel compelled to share every single hostile thought that runs through my brain.

 

I know part of this anger is the christmas season, when jesus is more blatantly shoved in my face than any other time. Interesting family update: we did an early Xmas with my psycho fundie family last night. The christ-child was not mentioned ONCE. It was like having a pleasant xmas with a secular family. I'm telling you this was pod-family. They dont' act up when Tom is with me. he's like my personal bodyguard of sanity. But a small part of me likes to believe that since we had early xmas on yule, that the gods of the solstice worked some magic to shut their goddamned mouths for once. :wicked:

 

So here I am again. Deciding to try to be more moderate. And deciding to get my own personal issues of mood and anger under control and not only blame it on religion. Everything in our lives, every problem or annoyance generally stems from many diff things. Everything isn't so simple and black and white.

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Hi Zoe

 

I'm pushing 40, and the son of a (now retired) S. Baptist minister; both of my brothers are atheists as well (my oldest bro is gay on top of that). My oldest bro tried to kill himself a few times when he figured out he was gay because he thought god hated him! My circumstances were a little different, but there was a LOT of anger involved in the aftermath!!! I guess it took me a little over 5 years to work through it enough that I could actually have a decent conversation with my dad. Probably 10 years before I could actually be comfortable with him. He and I are actually very good friends now! We just don't talk religion anymore, and we get along great. To give him some credit, he holds a doctorate in theology, and HE was the one who taught us to be critical thinkers. He was kind of a maverick for a baptist; he had a hard time getting his doctoral thesis pushed through, because he thought a lot of the discrimination for women as deacons was based off of a mis-translation; that thought didn't sit well with baptist colleges, and he had to submit it probably three times before he got his doctorate. He stood up and made a loud voice about racial discrimination in a small west-Texas town where I went to high school (and was labeled as a "nigger-lover" by a lot of people there, but he didn't give a damn). He's a great guy although he's still a little resentful because he never thought his kids would actually start questioning GOD!!! ...but that's his problem, not ours.

 

I think my big turnaround was after reading the Carlos Castaneda books. There was no great spiritual awakening, I didn't buy into much of what he was saying, but there was ONE thing I took to my heart from the books: the ability to start being aware of what is really important. Turns out, what other people think or believe just really isn't all that important to me. I love to have friendly debates with my Christian friends from time to time, but there is a line I won't cross with my friends (in other words, choose your battles wisely). One of my really good friends from work is a fundy ...biblical inerrancy, Noah's ark, the whole shooting match. But he's a cool guy too! He doesn't force his kids to go to church, in fact, he encourages them to explore other ideas. He told me once that he didn't feel he would be doing his job as a dad if he didn't let them make an informed choice for themselves (and he was willing to deal with it if they took a different route). I guess I kinda like Ssel on here because he kind of reminds me of my friend. He never preaches to me and respects my (lack of) religion; when I first started coming down with my disability, he was actually apologizing to me when he admitted that he was praying for me (he somehow thought that would be offensive to me)! Hell, I told him I considered it a compliment! Ten years ago I might have felt differently, but its just not really that big of a deal anymore. Sure, there is still a little bit of anger, but that anger is really at myself for buying into it as long as I did, not really at the people or the religion. Fallwell and Robertson still make me see red, sometimes other ways might set me off a little, but it never lasts long.

 

My older brother almost makes me jealous. He was a hard-core fundy, and we couldn't talk for some time because of his constant sermonizing! Then he went to bible college & was thinking about becoming a preacher (my dad was soooo PROUD). Then he started comparing the history he was being taught next to secular history. Bam!!! Atheist. No anger, no regrets, no looking back. We have a lot of great conversations, and I still can't quite figure out how it was so damned easy for him when it took years for my oldest bro & I to come to terms with it. It was kind of the same story with my wife, but her folks weren't fundy; just the "go to church on Sunday" variety. I guess its just a little different for everyone.

 

With me, it was mostly just the realization that *I* am the one ultimately responsible for my own feelings. Anger is a choice we make for ourselves, not something we're forced into at bible-point. On the same note, we can be almost as bad if we are too vehement in our approach towards them. Personally, I can't figure out who is worse, bible-god or the devil. But that's just me. People will always find something to fight about and have wars over. Christians don't have the market cornered there; some are actually great folks! Misguided maybe, but they trod through life just like the rest of us. Respecting the disrespectful can be hard, but it can be done. A little empathy can go a long way; and most of us were there once, so it shouldn't really be that hard.

 

Don't know if that is of any help, but shrink-greasemonkey will get off his soapbox now.

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Hey Zoey. We're glad to have ya back. We've missed you.

 

As someone who's pushing 50, I can tell ya that none of this shit is worth getting tweaked over. Nobody can piss me off anymore. Nobody. Especially over religion. Someone tells me their gonna pray for me, I thank em. Someone tells me I need to be back in church, I say "ya think?" and go about my business.

 

 

Just remember, they only know one side to the story. You know two.

So, when they start harpin about it, just think to yourself:

 

"I know something you don't know...."

 

Just my $.02.

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I'm glad you're back on here, too, Zoe. I appreciate and second what you say about dealing with stuff inside oneself.

 

Talking about pushing year X - as someone past 50, I can say... um, what was it? I forgot. Gol durn it, now where did I put my glasses?

 

Health and joy, everyone!!

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Glad you're back, Zoe.

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Hi, Zoe.

 

Definitely know what you mean with the choosing your battles thing. I used to have a hard time doing that, but I think I'm finally starting to realize which ones are worth fighting and which aren't.

 

Some people are not even like brick walls, they're steel walls, and banging your head on them won't even make a crack. Best not to waste time with them.

 

It's hard always taking the backseat to someone who isn't even real.

 

Yeah. My stepmom's current line is "church is good for you." (Apparently, it's a multi-vitamin now.)

 

To have people tell you that having an imaginary friend and going to a place where people worship that imaginary friend is "good for you" is rather condescending. But they don't realize it, because they honestly believe that they're doing The Right Thing . And I can't get her out of that mindset because she's done it all her life and doesn't want to change. That's also not a fight that I want to have, so I'm doing my best to avoid discussing religion with her.

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Man, Karma's a bitch.

 

Ain't that the truth...

 

...that said, good to have you back ;)

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Hi, Zoe,

 

(I'm new here, so pls. forgive me if I say something dumb.) I was very angry for a long time after leaving the church, about the way people had lied to me, the way I was taught to use "god" and religion in a manipulative way, the problems inherent to humanity, etc.). I think the only reason I'm as sane as I am now (LOL, and maybe that too is a matter of opinion ;) ) is that I talked "to death" all the things I was angry about on a forum related to the particular denomination I was a member of when I turned my back on Christianity. Sometimes when I was typing on a thread, I'd realize, "this [subject] is dumb, why am I even bothering with this... I just don't *care* about it anymore!" I had to do a lot of verbalizing to figure out what was really important to me--and with hindsight, I can say that confronting and exploring the circumstances and roots of my anger was an absolutely essential step on the road to healing. Even sometimes in an environment I assumed was "safe" for venting such things, some folks were disinclined to let me have that space I needed, and that just made me angrier. All that interaction with others in my anger helped me learn how to set boundaries and defend them as necessary. I can laugh and be philosophical about a lot of that stuff now, but my anger was serious business for me back then--which is just as it should have been.

 

We humans tend to be social animals and we also tend to organize ourselves in groups based on our interests. That's not a bad thing, in and of itself. It's part of what makes us human.

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<snip>

I think my big turnaround was after reading the Carlos Castaneda books. There was no great spiritual awakening, I didn't buy into much of what he was saying, but there was ONE thing I took to my heart from the books: the ability to start being aware of what is really important. Turns out, what other people think or believe just really isn't all that important to me. <snip>

 

I think that is one of the things I find so appealing about Buddhism (as well as the fact that belief in a deity--one that is anthropomorphized, anyway--is not a prerequisite for that sort of introspection).

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Welcome back, Zoe - though I've never met you.

 

I can understand about the anger; it takes a good deal of holding back and thinking about what you will say, or else you find yourself getting pissed at every stupid Xian thing there is. I was guilty of that for awhile, and I think most people are; it's just letting go of the bad blood. You can't plant a garden if you don't pull weeds from time to time, so there is a place for occasional ranting, just so long as you don't go pull-crazy and start ripping flowers up with the weeds. There are many positive things to emphasize about being an ExC and about choosing your own religious path, and you are surely aware of them.

 

The good thing about this board is there's room for them both. No one here will force you to choose one religion or anti-religion over another - we seem to understand free thought and difference of opinion here. I posted at evilbible.com for awhile, until I just couldn't deal with the Athiest Fundies over there. It was almost always bashing Xianity all the time and then bashing anyone else who didn't tow the party line. Too much vinegar and not enough wine makes my stomch ill :ugh:

 

Glad to see you return, then. The more the merrier :)

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The good thing about this board is there's room for them both. No one here will force you to choose one religion or anti-religion over another - we seem to understand free thought and difference of opinion here. I posted at evilbible.com for awhile, until I just couldn't deal with the Athiest Fundies over there. It was almost always bashing Xianity all the time and then bashing anyone else who didn't tow the party line. Too much vinegar and not enough wine makes my stomch ill

 

geez... before I found this site, I looked around a little at ravingatheist.com; the atheist posters made me as ill as most fundies elsewhere. I still enjoy worldmagblog every now & then, I LOVE how the fact that ANYONE voicing a differing opinion is leftist atheist commie scum... they almost invite us with thier rhetoric (and easy posting policy), so we give them the evil atheist conspiracy (and "we" includes most moderate christians too!).

 

Hope to see more of you Zoe!

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Guest DrepmoreH

Hi Zoe

 

I'm pushing 40, and the son of a (now retired) S. Baptist minister; both of my brothers are atheists as well (my oldest bro is gay on top of that). My oldest bro tried to kill himself a few times when he figured out he was gay because he thought god hated him! My circumstances were a little different, but there was a LOT of anger involved in the aftermath!!! I guess it took me a little over 5 years to work through it enough that I could actually have a decent conversation with my dad. Probably 10 years before I could actually be comfortable with him. He and I are actually very good friends now! We just don't talk religion anymore, and we get along great. To give him some credit, he holds a doctorate in theology, and HE was the one who taught us to be critical thinkers. He was kind of a maverick for a baptist; he had a hard time getting his doctoral thesis pushed through, because he thought a lot of the discrimination for women as deacons was based off of a mis-translation; that thought didn't sit well with baptist colleges, and he had to submit it probably three times before he got his doctorate. He stood up and made a loud voice about racial discrimination in a small west-Texas town where I went to high school (and was labeled as a "nigger-lover" by a lot of people there, but he didn't give a damn). He's a great guy although he's still a little resentful because he never thought his kids would actually start questioning GOD!!! ...but that's his problem, not ours.

 

I think my big turnaround was after reading the Carlos Castaneda books. There was no great spiritual awakening, I didn't buy into much of what he was saying, but there was ONE thing I took to my heart from the books: the ability to start being aware of what is really important. Turns out, what other people think or believe just really isn't all that important to me. I love to have friendly debates with my Christian friends from time to time, but there is a line I won't cross with my friends (in other words, choose your battles wisely). One of my really good friends from work is a fundy ...biblical inerrancy, Noah's ark, the whole shooting match. But he's a cool guy too! He doesn't force his kids to go to church, in fact, he encourages them to explore other ideas. He told me once that he didn't feel he would be doing his job as a dad if he didn't let them make an informed choice for themselves (and he was willing to deal with it if they took a different route). I guess I kinda like Ssel on here because he kind of reminds me of my friend. He never preaches to me and respects my (lack of) religion; when I first started coming down with my disability, he was actually apologizing to me when he admitted that he was praying for me (he somehow thought that would be offensive to me)! Hell, I told him I considered it a compliment! Ten years ago I might have felt differently, but its just not really that big of a deal anymore. Sure, there is still a little bit of anger, but that anger is really at myself for buying into it as long as I did, not really at the people or the religion. Fallwell and Robertson still make me see red, sometimes other ways might set me off a little, but it never lasts long.

 

My older brother almost makes me jealous. He was a hard-core fundy, and we couldn't talk for some time because of his constant sermonizing! Then he went to bible college & was thinking about becoming a preacher (my dad was soooo PROUD). Then he started comparing the history he was being taught next to secular history. Bam!!! Atheist. No anger, no regrets, no looking back. We have a lot of great conversations, and I still can't quite figure out how it was so damned easy for him when it took years for my oldest bro & I to come to terms with it. It was kind of the same story with my wife, but her folks weren't fundy; just the "go to church on Sunday" variety. I guess its just a little different for everyone.

 

With me, it was mostly just the realization that *I* am the one ultimately responsible for my own feelings. Anger is a choice we make for ourselves, not something we're forced into at bible-point. On the same note, we can be almost as bad if we are too vehement in our approach towards them. Personally, I can't figure out who is worse, bible-god or the devil. But that's just me. People will always find something to fight about and have wars over. Christians don't have the market cornered there; some are actually great folks! Misguided maybe, but they trod through life just like the rest of us. Respecting the disrespectful can be hard, but it can be done. A little empathy can go a long way; and most of us were there once, so it shouldn't really be that hard.

 

Don't know if that is of any help, but shrink-greasemonkey will get off his soapbox now.

 

 

best post i've pretty much read..........ever.

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