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I know this is silly... But, I shared The Thinking Atheist status update on my page and so far, the stuff has hit the fan with my wife. Pretty much accusing me of trying to cause conflict. :( I'm just sharing my beliefs like the many of believers that do the same on their walls. Don't I get the same luxury? Guess not. Nobody wants to hear a good message coming from a total non-believer.

 

So, the lesson for today. Don't hurt Christians feelings by posting your opinions on the completely unobservable. They'll attack you. But I'm sure it's in love. You know that mind God gave you? Don't use it. Just have faith. I wonder if we just had faith in God to heal the body of all disease where'd we be today in the medical field? Lots of diseases like Smallpox, Scurvy, Polio might have never been cured or restrained... Or we may all be dead from our lack of interest in that medical knowledge. In that case, faith would most certainly have been our downfall.

 

This is what I get for being honest.

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Sorry to hear about that.  Have you talked to your wife in person about this?  Does she understand you're just sharing your beliefs?  Why does she think you're just doing it to cause conflict?  Does she understand that other than not believing in xianity, you're the same person you always were?  

 

There's nothing silly about this.  It's hurtful to be told you're just causing conflict and you have no right to express your opinion.

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That sucks! :(  Maybe it just really drives it home to her that you're really serious about your change in beliefs and she's having trouble accepting it. And, boo, on anyone that attacks you.  They just become defensive at the idea someone that was once "with them" is now not and people don't like being called to question their beliefs.  Especially if they've made life decisions or dedicated a lot of time (and/or $) to those said beliefs. 

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How dare you remind the Christians that atheists exist!  Shame!

 

Seriously I hope you guys find a peaceful compromise.  It's unfortunate that Christians have to be so uncivilized about it but what are you going to do?

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i feel ya.

today my sister posted a Lee Strobel sermon talking about why bad things happen to good people. Mind you, this was directed at a friend of mine who had lost two family members and mentioned that God had a lot to answer for. My response:

 

 instead of cutting and pasting 'truth' from some apologist, I prefer thinking for myself. Labeling something 'truth' don't make it so.

 

So of course I am now accused of disrespecting her and insulting her. To my mind, what's insulting is posting shit that like to try and convert someone who is grieving.

And I already made your mistake of posting humanistic stuff, that's when everyone accuses you of trying to start an argument. "Oh, why can't you just keep the peace?" Sure, and maybe the people protesting for human rights should just shut the fuck up, they're causing too much conflict. 

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I know how maddeningly frustrating this can be, LifeCycle. I am always biting my tongue or walking away from the keyboard to stop myself from offending the poor Christians. And one acquaintance I work with part-time is always whining on Facebook and in real life about how much he and his fellow Christians are victims because they are so suppressed from expressing their beliefs. This guy actually believes that Christians in America are silent and kept that way by the evil atheists. And he NEVER shuts up about how silent he has to be. But if I ever dared to suggest the absurdity of this, I would be instantly villainized.

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As a society we've gotten into an awful habit of allowing people to be convinced that whenever they feel 'offended' it grants them some kind of victim status and automatically puts them in the right. Reason and logic go out the window.

 

You have every right to post the things that resonate with you on your page. If your 'friends' don't like it they have every right to unsubscribe from your feed. As long as you are nice.

 

But I imagine it must be very frustrating and there's probably no way to avoid getting attacked about it. In your shoes, I would try and avoid allowing the discussion with your wife to be about the act of posting, but instead tell her what was actually in your post and how you think it's a great positive message and wanted to share it everybody.

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I know this is silly... But, I shared The Thinking Atheist status update on my page and so far, the stuff has hit the fan with my wife. Pretty much accusing me of trying to cause conflict. sad.png I'm just sharing my beliefs like the many of believers that do the same on their walls. Don't I get the same luxury? Guess not. Nobody wants to hear a good message coming from a total non-believer.

 

So, the lesson for today. Don't hurt Christians feelings by posting your opinions on the completely unobservable. They'll attack you. But I'm sure it's in love. You know that mind God gave you? Don't use it. Just have faith. I wonder if we just had faith in God to heal the body of all disease where'd we be today in the medical field? Lots of diseases like Smallpox, Scurvy, Polio might have never been cured or restrained... Or we may all be dead from our lack of interest in that medical knowledge. In that case, faith would most certainly have been our downfall.

 

This is what I get for being honest.

The "trying to cause conflict" is probably a woman thing... christianity just makes it worse.

 

Hope things work out for ya, tc

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It'll blow over just give it a few generations lol

 

How many generations are in 3000 years?

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It'll blow over just give it a few generations lol

 

How many generations are in 3000 years?

 

 

I actually think a few generations is now a possibility, however optimistic.

 

Just one generation ago we did not have the internet, and while it was still possible for many people to get hold of books or travel the world, the vast majority people were at the mercy of their local communities when it came to diversity, knowledge and judgement. Now a doubting Christian can simply go online and find out (or order for home delivery) the plethora of information they need to rationalise their doubts, or mix with online global communities. The online Christians that are complaining about LifeCycle's posted material probably wouldn't have even been exposed such things before the internet – now it's happening all the time. Sure, many will consistently deny any attack on their staunch beliefs, but only because they've been holding on to them for decades. The new generation is always different.

 

It may still take longer than we'd like, but I think it will happen.

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It'll blow over just give it a few generations lol

 

How many generations are in 3000 years?

 

 

I actually think a few generations is now a possibility, however optimistic.

 

Just one generation ago we did not have the internet, and while it was still possible for many people to get hold of books or travel the world, the vast majority people were at the mercy of their local communities when it came to diversity, knowledge and judgement. Now a doubting Christian can simply go online and find out (or order for home delivery) the plethora of information they need to rationalise their doubts, or mix with online global communities. The online Christians that are complaining about LifeCycle's posted material probably wouldn't have even been exposed such things before the internet – now it's happening all the time. Sure, many will consistently deny any attack on their staunch beliefs, but only because they've been holding on to them for decades. The new generation is always different.

 

It may still take longer than we'd like, but I think it will happen.

 

 

Pardon me for being a more negative person but I think and personally feel it is going to get worse again before it truly gets better.

 

The religious right especially in America are not a weak group even if their logical position is weak. They don't care and in fact they don't even care about their own belief system. They will lie, cajole, and use all kinds of underhanded tactics then cry foul against the same done to them. They have influence still here and if not properly checked we could find ourselves in a dangerous position sooner than later.

 

Prepare yourself this isn't over yet no matter what it might seem like is happening now. We have had religions and gods around for thousands and thousands of years. They will not be replaced by reason for the masses quickly or easily. People are willing to fight and die for what they believe and some willing to kill you just for disagreeing with them. Until that attitude is gone this will not end.

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I think and personally feel it is going to get worse again before it truly gets better.

 

 

Well I agree with you there.

 

 

The religious right especially in America are not a weak group even if their logical position is weak. They don't care and in fact they don't even care about their own belief system. They will lie, cajole, and use all kinds of underhanded tactics then cry foul against the same done to them. They have influence still here and if not properly checked we could find ourselves in a dangerous position sooner than later.

 

 

Not living in America, I'll admit I'm probably ignorant to the full extent of this. It's a fair point. I've based my observations on where I live (currently UK), where the number of people who affiliate themselves with no religion at all has nearly doubled in the last 10 years – a trend that is set to continue.

 

 

Prepare yourself this isn't over yet no matter what it might seem like is happening now. We have had religions and gods around for thousands and thousands of years. They will not be replaced by reason for the masses quickly or easily. People are willing to fight and die for what they believe and some willing to kill you just for disagreeing with them. Until that attitude is gone this will not end.

 

 

This is where I think I am somewhat more optimistic than you. I don't think it's reliable to compare our current time to the thousands and thousands of years before. The world continued for those thousands and thousands of years with relatively little advancement, and the religions and gods and all that went with them were the norm. In the past few hundred years, we have advanced more than all of humanity before us, and it's been accelerating - the last few generations have seen incredible advancement. The rules have changed. The freedoms we have are unprecedented in history. On almost a global scale, humans are more responsible and answerable to one another. The ancient methods of spreading religion (for example) simply can't happen anymore on anywhere near the scale they used to. Information used to be a luxury commodity, now anyone with a smartphone can access the entirety of knowledge known to mankind. While there are still many places in the world where exceptions apply, I think in general, Civilisation has become a lot more civil, and the decline of religion is inevitable. I'm totally glossing over the details and I know this all perhaps sounds a bit too hopeful. Since deconverting from Christianity, I have become fascinated with human history and still have a lot to discover. I guess I'd rather be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right, as the saying goes!

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Enlightened nailed it.

As a society we've gotten into an awful habit of allowing people to be convinced that whenever they feel 'offended' it grants them some kind of victim status and automatically puts them in the right.

 

 

Many Christians simply will not tolerate or entertain a differing opinion. Good luck to ya.

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I think and personally feel it is going to get worse again before it truly gets better.

 

 

Well I agree with you there.

 

 

The religious right especially in America are not a weak group even if their logical position is weak. They don't care and in fact they don't even care about their own belief system. They will lie, cajole, and use all kinds of underhanded tactics then cry foul against the same done to them. They have influence still here and if not properly checked we could find ourselves in a dangerous position sooner than later.

 

 

Not living in America, I'll admit I'm probably ignorant to the full extent of this. It's a fair point. I've based my observations on where I live (currently UK), where the number of people who affiliate themselves with no religion at all has nearly doubled in the last 10 years – a trend that is set to continue.

 

 

Prepare yourself this isn't over yet no matter what it might seem like is happening now. We have had religions and gods around for thousands and thousands of years. They will not be replaced by reason for the masses quickly or easily. People are willing to fight and die for what they believe and some willing to kill you just for disagreeing with them. Until that attitude is gone this will not end.

 

 

This is where I think I am somewhat more optimistic than you. I don't think it's reliable to compare our current time to the thousands and thousands of years before. The world continued for those thousands and thousands of years with relatively little advancement, and the religions and gods and all that went with them were the norm. In the past few hundred years, we have advanced more than all of humanity before us, and it's been accelerating - the last few generations have seen incredible advancement. The rules have changed. The freedoms we have are unprecedented in history. On almost a global scale, humans are more responsible and answerable to one another. The ancient methods of spreading religion (for example) simply can't happen anymore on anywhere near the scale they used to. Information used to be a luxury commodity, now anyone with a smartphone can access the entirety of knowledge known to mankind. While there are still many places in the world where exceptions apply, I think in general, Civilisation has become a lot more civil, and the decline of religion is inevitable. I'm totally glossing over the details and I know this all perhaps sounds a bit too hopeful. Since deconverting from Christianity, I have become fascinated with human history and still have a lot to discover. I guess I'd rather be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right, as the saying goes!

 

 

I am not a pessimist because I want that to happen. I hope for the best. I never stop planning for the worst. I need to know what I am going to do if the right takes up against the rest of us.

 

We have just become more efficient at systems of control.

 

There are many christians I know personally that would be willing to let you die rather than help save you if you didn't believe like they did.

 

I heard one say not to long ago that he would let an atheist drown rather than save him if he already knew he was an atheist because god would  not want him to live.

 

That is not an uncommon opinion among christians. Many many do not believe that but those are not the ones to worry about...yet. Most are lost sheep following the strongest leader in their herd. If those leaders turn on reason completely who do you think is going to pay for that?

 

I will trust christians not to fuck us all when I see them actually accept that others have a right to their beliefs and not just a few here and there but many times many. I could care less what they believe until it tells them they have to care that I don't agree with them.

 

This is war on logic and reason and I for one will not be sitting on the sidelines waiting to see who wins because if the other side has its way we will all bow to fantasy.

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I'm just so frustrated right now. My feelings were never considered by my wife. I was just on the attack because I posted a non-Christian perspective.

 

I can't do that, I must be quiet. Too many people's feelings will get hurt. :(

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Yeah, it's frustrating and (can be) isolating.  We're such a strange creature-- capable of solving such complex issues and oblivious and blinded to the greatest absurdities-- all in the same brain at the same time...

Have you read "Why I Believed" by Ken Daniels.  http://www.amazon.com/Why-Believed-Reflections-Former-Missionary/dp/0578003880

I finally got my wife to read a little in it.  (She says she'll read the whole thing-- we'll see...)  He definitely knows the lingo has some very thought-provoking arguments, and goes about it very respectfully.  He's got the "former missionary" cred as well.  I wish I could have read it years ago.  I definitely went about it the hard way...

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I'm just so frustrated right now. My feelings were never considered by my wife. I was just on the attack because I posted a non-Christian perspective.

 

I can't do that, I must be quiet. Too many people's feelings will get hurt. sad.png

 

If none of them will consider your feelings you owe them nothing in the way of considering theirs. If you choose to anyway you are the one giving them a gift and they are the ones turning up their nose at your free will.

 

you are not at fault of anything for having your own view even if your wife does not agree with you.

 

You must do what you choose. If you care more about their feelings in this case you do what you think is right.

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Sorry you are having to deal with this. Would you be open to couples therapy? It might help to have a neutral party reaffirm that you have just as much a right to express your beliefs on FB as she does.

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It's your Facebook page!  If your FB friends aren't interested in the things that you like or find interesting, they have two choices:

 

a) Ignore/don't read your page

b ) Unfriend you.

 

Seems simple to me.  If someone wants to be offended over this, that is their problem - not yours.

 

 

edited: I keep forgetting that a b next to a ) makes a smiley-face with sunglasses!

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There are many christians I know personally that would be willing to let you die rather than help save you if you didn't believe like they did.

 

I heard one say not to long ago that he would let an atheist drown rather than save him if he already knew he was an atheist because god would  not want him to live.

 

That is not an uncommon opinion among christians. Many many do not believe that but those are not the ones to worry about...yet. Most are lost sheep following the strongest leader in their herd. If those leaders turn on reason completely who do you think is going to pay for that?

 

I will trust christians not to fuck us all when I see them actually accept that others have a right to their beliefs and not just a few here and there but many times many. I could care less what they believe until it tells them they have to care that I don't agree with them.

 

This is war on logic and reason and I for one will not be sitting on the sidelines waiting to see who wins because if the other side has its way we will all bow to fantasy.

 

 

OK well then. This Christianity you describe is foreign to me. Whatever happened to the Good Samaritan?

 

I understand why authors like Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris single out the USA.

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There are many christians I know personally that would be willing to let you die rather than help save you if you didn't believe like they did.

 

I heard one say not to long ago that he would let an atheist drown rather than save him if he already knew he was an atheist because god would  not want him to live.

 

That is not an uncommon opinion among christians. Many many do not believe that but those are not the ones to worry about...yet. Most are lost sheep following the strongest leader in their herd. If those leaders turn on reason completely who do you think is going to pay for that?

 

I will trust christians not to fuck us all when I see them actually accept that others have a right to their beliefs and not just a few here and there but many times many. I could care less what they believe until it tells them they have to care that I don't agree with them.

 

This is war on logic and reason and I for one will not be sitting on the sidelines waiting to see who wins because if the other side has its way we will all bow to fantasy.

 

 

OK well then. This Christianity you describe is foreign to me. Whatever happened to the Good Samaritan?

 

I understand why authors like Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris single out the USA.

 

 

There are literally thousands of comments all over facebook twitter and all social media outlets that look like this assuming you have not seen these before...

 

Fox%20Fans.jpg

 

 

This is not some joke. I could care less what they say in front of me or in public. If they will say it online some part of them believes they are justified at killing me for disagreeing with them.

 

I see christianity and almost all churches as bigotry and hate. Most ask it of their members to be included.

 

Not sure what you see when you see churches but I see lies and hypocrisy and people that will say the above hate to others openly. Those people are not hidden on facebook those are their actual names. I have never wished death on anyone for any reason as I am a pacifist. How can I be the man of peace and yet be so godless? Oh noes maybe they might come get me.

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I feel for you Lifecycle.   Been there and often am there.   I feel a bit about my Facebook postings the way I used to feel about presenting myself as a "cool" christian in the old days.   And that is very very sad I think.   I am always thinking about what I post, will it present a good image of me as an atheist? (I have "come out" to most christian friends.) Does it move someone reading it to be curious about what I believe and maybe open them to questions?   On and on.   I try to ride a fine line between being myself and not having people unfriend me, although I am sure there must be some who have.   It is a bit like I am my own marketing manager and was like trying to portray my old christian life in a way that would entice people to try my church.   

An interesting thing is that my believing wife has unfriended me from Facebook and yet we sleep in the same bed together!   The marriage seems to be actually surviving this situation.   I think at some point she realized I have a right to post what I want but it was too difficult for her to read.   

So that may be a suggestion for you Lifecycle.   Have her unfriend you for her own sake.   It actually is working out ok for us.   Although sometimes it is odd when someone brings up a Facebook post of my wife's to me.   I have to pretend I know about it.   LOL! 

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There are many christians I know personally that would be willing to let you die rather than help save you if you didn't believe like they did.

 

I heard one say not to long ago that he would let an atheist drown rather than save him if he already knew he was an atheist because god would  not want him to live.

 

That is not an uncommon opinion among christians. Many many do not believe that but those are not the ones to worry about...yet. Most are lost sheep following the strongest leader in their herd. If those leaders turn on reason completely who do you think is going to pay for that?

 

I will trust christians not to fuck us all when I see them actually accept that others have a right to their beliefs and not just a few here and there but many times many. I could care less what they believe until it tells them they have to care that I don't agree with them.

 

This is war on logic and reason and I for one will not be sitting on the sidelines waiting to see who wins because if the other side has its way we will all bow to fantasy.

 

 

OK well then. This Christianity you describe is foreign to me. Whatever happened to the Good Samaritan?

 

I understand why authors like Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris single out the USA.

 

 

There are literally thousands of comments all over facebook twitter and all social media outlets that look like this assuming you have not seen these before...

 

Fox%20Fans.jpg

 

 

This is not some joke. I could care less what they say in front of me or in public. If they will say it online some part of them believes they are justified at killing me for disagreeing with them.

 

I see christianity and almost all churches as bigotry and hate. Most ask it of their members to be included.

 

Not sure what you see when you see churches but I see lies and hypocrisy and people that will say the above hate to others openly. Those people are not hidden on facebook those are their actual names. I have never wished death on anyone for any reason as I am a pacifist. How can I be the man of peace and yet be so godless? Oh noes maybe they might come get me.

 

Holy shit that's scary.

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I feel for you Lifecycle.   Been there and often am there.   I feel a bit about my Facebook postings the way I used to feel about presenting myself as a "cool" christian in the old days.   And that is very very sad I think.   I am always thinking about what I post, will it present a good image of me as an atheist? (I have "come out" to most christian friends.) Does it move someone reading it to be curious about what I believe and maybe open them to questions?   On and on.   I try to ride a fine line between being myself and not having people unfriend me, although I am sure there must be some who have.   It is a bit like I am my own marketing manager and was like trying to portray my old christian life in a way that would entice people to try my church.   

 

An interesting thing is that my believing wife has unfriended me from Facebook and yet we sleep in the same bed together!   The marriage seems to be actually surviving this situation.   I think at some point she realized I have a right to post what I want but it was too difficult for her to read.   

 

So that may be a suggestion for you Lifecycle.   Have her unfriend you for her own sake.   It actually is working out ok for us.   Although sometimes it is odd when someone brings up a Facebook post of my wife's to me.   I have to pretend I know about it.   LOL! 

Haha, that's crazy but may actually be a good alternative here. I may bring that up at dinner tonight.

 

I've also been considering showing her this thread. One; she might get a better understanding where I'm coming from and two; she could see that there's actually other people in the world who have stopped believing Christianity as well. I'm convinced many Christians think it's not very common and it's more common than they think.

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