My Father, Absolute Morality And Frustration.

[sarahinprogress]

SO, my father has recently been trying to have discussions with me about morality. I recently sent him in the direction of Qualiasoup's morality series.

 

 

 

(which I can't seem to link to) in the hopes of explaining where morality can come from outside of god.

 

this was his response, which I can't even begin to reply to, so basically....help?

 

 

As I watched the first video I noted the proper absence of where the foundation came from.

 

 

 

It seems to say that moral majority is not the foundation, but then focus on societies that together as a majority adhere to the principle of good for all in all areas as established by the presenter, without defining how good is viewed as good or why the items listed and used as wrong, are wrong.

 

 

 

The wide over usage of generalizations especially in the negative form promote the adoption of the argument being offered, without providing an origin. The presupposition of the speaker is, he is correct…

 

 

 

There was even a section on the mitigation of culpability based on lack of education, which is then used to make education a paradigm of the development of reason (also not provided an origin) along with the adopted expressed views as the correct set of morally good views assumed to be correct based on the argument given. Classic circular reasoning.

 

 

 

The validity of the morally reprehensible (child witchcraft, littering, rape, murder) arguments enhances the presenters argument by being used in a supportive role to the expressed rightness of the proper moral view as defined in the presupposition of the argument as a whole. While the arguments on a whole have validity, they were chosen so to support the presupposition.

 

 

 

I found the jab at Christians looking to their own conscience and demonstrated through brain scans, as accessing the same part of the brain as others who were not Christians silly, okay?!? As a Christian when I am recalling what I have been taught, of course I use the same parts of my brain? Christians, at least the ones I know best, do not think we are accessing deity when living, breathing and making decisions every day. Just a slam against Christian’s and the moral thoughts of religious folks in general.

 

 

 

Let me know what you think, after you re-watch it…

 

 

 

Remember, my love for you will never cease, as all love will never cease

[new2me]

Well, the Bible never states that rape or slavery is wrong.  In fact, it flat out endorses it.  So how did we ever figure out that those things are morally reprehensible?

The Bible also states that non-virgin women, homosexuals, blasphemers, disobedient children and people who work on the Sabbath should be put to death.  So how did we ever figure out that this guidance was wrong?

 

Without religion, humans are not left to guess at what an invisible, poorly communicating deity might be telling them is morally right or wrong, and we are free to treat others as we would like to be treated ourselves.  Without religion, we can use our own empathy, fairness, and logic to determine what moral guidelines should guide the society that we live in.

[Sybaris]

He cites circular reasoning as a reason to dismiss what he watched but doesn't see how circular reasoning applies to his own faith. Classic

 

I wouldn't reply or allow him to engage you in any form of religious discussion.

 

From the start you were already as far as you can go with it and can only agree to disagree with him.

[mymistake]

I agree with Sybaris.  What can you possibly gain from trying to reason with indoctrinated family members?  Most of the time there isn't much to gain from it.

[sarahinprogress]

 

From the start you were already as far as you can go with it and can only agree to disagree with him.

yes im starting to see that. he's looking for where morality starts and a foundation OUTSIDE of.humanity, so I think qualiasoup's video kinda.just goes right past him since its only explaining how we can be moral without go and not where moral absoutes come.from outside of god.

[sarahinprogress]

Well, the Bible never states that rape or slavery is wrong.  In fact, it flat out endorses it.  So how did we ever figure out that those things are morally reprehensible?

The Bible also states that non-virgin women, homosexuals, blasphemers, disobedient children and people who work on the Sabbath should be put to death.  So how did we ever figure out that this guidance was wrong?

 

 

which is the argument I tried to make, but he flat out agreed with me they if God says to kill someone, it isn't murder.

[mymistake]

 

 

From the start you were already as far as you can go with it and can only agree to disagree with him.

yes im starting to see that. he's looking for where morality starts and a foundation OUTSIDE of.humanity, so I think qualiasoup's video kinda.just goes right past him since its only explaining how we can be moral without go and not where moral absoutes come.from outside of god.

 

 

Even Christians don't have moral absolutes.  They talk about them but they don't act on it.  Christians decide which parts of the Old Testament are just figurative, just a metaphor, part of the "completed law", part of an ancient culture so no longer relevant and which parts of the Bible God intended for us to take literally and obey to this very day.  Christians do not go around stoning people despite all the Old Testament instructions.  Christian morality is relative.

[sarahinprogress]

 Christian morality is relative.

yes, that's what I'm coming to realize. I guess it's just hard, having been raised in such an extreme sect of Christianity and having a father who I'd do certain of his view.

[Llwellyn]

I'm a pretty smart person, but his sentences and words don't make much sense.  I get the feeling that he is writing that way just to intimidate you into thinking that he has outsmarted you.  The irony is that he doesn't even use apostrophes properly.  I don't mean to insult your father, but I don't think he is as smart as he thinks he is.

 

As for absolute morality, I think it is a myth.  There is no "right" and "wrong" in any kind of absolute or supernatural sense.  We are all different, bearing different genes, desires, perceptions, and there is no "human good" outside of human tastes and preferences.

[Sybaris]

 

 

From the start you were already as far as you can go with it and can only agree to disagree with him.

yes im starting to see that. he's looking for where morality starts and a foundation OUTSIDE of.humanity, so I think qualiasoup's video kinda.just goes right past him since its only explaining how we can be moral without go and not where moral absoutes come.from outside of god.

 

 

 

Right

 

The whole god given morality thing for Christians fails because we are not born with morals. Just the other day I had to explain to my 7 year old grandson why it is wrong to go around the patio stomping the life out of every living thing he found. If morals were divinely given then it makes no sense that only a select group of people in the middle east were anointed with them thousands of years ago. If Christian assertions were true pertaining to "Christian morals" then every non-Christian country, region or state would be in total chaos and that is simply not the case. Regardless, prisons are full of Christians, no? (Oh but THOSE aren't REAL Christians)

 

No, anyone with a modest knowledge of anthropology and sociology knows that morals evolved to ensure group survival, they weren't handed down to an old man on mountain nor poofed into our brains.