Help From Those Whose Marriages Survived...

[Insightful]

Hi everyone,

 

I've been going through a fairly slow and painful deconversion process...  At this point, I've let go of "fundamentalism" - inerrancy, Christianity as the "only way", etc.  I'm hoping I can piece together some form of liberal Christianity that I could believe in, but I'm not so sure that it is likely.  [why hope that?  it would make my family life much better if I could...]

 

This question goes out to all of the members - especially men - who were married to strong, conservative Christian wives - and whose marriages survived.  HOW did it survive???

 

My wife knows where I stand (I've described myself as "questioning" and "no longer certain" as those are the best I can come up with).  She has responded VERY POORLY.

 

Though I've tried to assure her that I really am the same guy - I'm still totally committed to her, still have every intention of keeping my marriage vows - to love her faithfully and sacrificially until death, I'm still committed to being the best father I can be (we have two little girls 5 and 7, both adopted), I still want to give generously to the poor / orphaned / etc.

 

But she says "it's not the same".  "I don't know who you are anymore".  "If you fully deconvert, we can't adopt any more children" (something I deeply long to do).

 

She's ended intimacy as of two weeks ago. 

 

She claims to want to work things out.  I feel like I am giving 110% to heal this marriage - trying to be the most loving and kind and patiend husband and dad...  But she distrusts my motives - saying "you're just being nice so I don't leave you".  

 

I made the mistake of probing her reasons for believing (such as asking: "Did you look at all of the troubling passages in the Bible before you committed your whole life to it - like smashing babies against rocks, ripping open pregnant women, hacking/bludgeoning old people, crippled people, women and children, then raping the girls who just saw their parents get killed... etc?")   As you can guess, that did NOT go over well.

 

My point WASN'T to deconvert her, but to help her stop CONDEMNING / DETESTING me for struggling.  I'm fine with her believing - I just want her to not BLAME me for doubting...

 

She says she is open to counseling - with a psychologist/MFT.  I've narrowed it down to a few and I'm waiting for her to give feedback.

 

The feeling of being "conditionally loved" is the most painful I have ever imagined.

 

I feel like I could never again be good enough for her respect (which I don't think I ever had any way).

 

You might wonder why I love her.  I see her for who she is inspite of the ways her belief-system causes her to act toward me.  I love her typical sweetness, brilliance, compassion, and humor.  She has been an amazing friend and wife of 12 years.  My only problem with her is her problem with me. = )

 

There are days when I just want to die.  I can't imagine divorcing her - I'm so sentimental and could not be happy knowing that she would be so UNHAPPY.  Per her beliefs, she could never remarry with God's approval so she would likely live alone the rest of her life.  Though I would want to remarry, I don't know that I could with joy, thinking so often of her alone.

 

But I can't imagine living in a "platonic" marriage for the rest of my life feeling personally rejected every single day.

 

Any help would be so appreciated.  Even just to hear your stories - just reply with a link if you've already shared - even if they aren't all THAT similar - would be therapeutic.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mymistake]

Mostly it depends on the Christian spouse.  Just how badly indoctrinated are they?  If my marriage survived and yours doesn't that don't mean a thing because it's all about the level of indoctrination in the Christian spouse.  Your original post has some red flags.  I would watch out for those.  She talked about leaving you.  She cut you off from intimacy.  Those are very strong indicators on where this is going.  If things calm down and those red flags disappear you can take that as a good sign.

 

A brief history on my personal life:

 

Dec 2008  I conclude the Bible is a pack of nonsense.  That was a long fall from Christian fundamentalism.  

 

I don't tell my wife but keep it to myself.  I continue with Church.

 

Jan 2010   I decide I can't be a Christian.

 

Again I don't tell my wife but keep it to myself.  I continue going to church.  The pastor suggests getting my daughter dedicated and I make excuses.

 

Oct 2011 I join ex-C.

 

Still not telling my wife.  Still going to church.  Still avoiding the dedication issue.  I was working through a lot of anger and fear.

 

Nov 2011 I become an atheist.  Same deal

 

Early 2012 I start having trouble keeping a strait face in church.  I realize I may not be able to keep it up and start thinking about talking.

 

Mid 2012 my wife realizes something is wrong and asks me about my religion.  I tell her the truth.  She takes the news well but we do have reoccurring fights about it.  I decide that I will not try to deconvert her and I stick to that whenever she asks me for details regarding beliefs.

 

When my mother visits I tell her too.  That was a bad week but it gave the ladies a chance to vent at my expense.  They were tag teaming me for a couple hours of grilling at one point.  But whenever they demanded details on beliefs I would remind them that I am not trying to deconvert them.

 

My wife informed me that she found this status to be embarrassing and shameful so she asked me to keep it a secret to everyone else.  I could live with that so I agreed.

 

Pastors would call to check on me and I would see old friends from Bible study but I would never give them details on what happened.  Our cover story has been that we changed churches.  It wasn't a complete lie for we did attend another place for a while.

 

The most important thing about leaving that fundie church was that it got my wife away from the environment where people kept repeating the lie that both people have to be Christians or a marriage won't work.

 

At the new Church the steam was running out.  We started attending 3 times a month, then twice a month, then once a month.  Now we are down to half a dozen services a year.  This gets my wife and kids away from the indoctrination.

 

We have come to an understanding on the kids that she will try to teach them about God and I'm not going to stop her but I'm also going to let them know that isn't the only way it has to be.

 

We occasionally talk about religion but I tread lightly.

 

So yes my marriage survived a very risky time.  I hope yours does too.  It really depends on who you married.  Some Christians will dump you in a heartbeat to follow their imaginary friend.  Others are only a few months away from deconverting themselves.  Do keep in mind that deconverting is something you can only do to yourself.  Reading all of the Bible is what turns Christians into atheists.  But it's not something you can do for somebody else because Christianity has air tight defenses against that sort of problem.  "It's a trick of Satan!!!" and so on.

 

Good luck.

[Thought2Much]

Mostly it depends on the Christian spouse.  Just how badly indoctrinated are they?  If my marriage survived and yours doesn't that don't mean a thing because it's all about the level of indoctrination in the Christian spouse.  Your original post has some red flags.  I would watch out for those.  She talked about leaving you.  She cut you off from intimacy.

 

I'm seeing exactly the same red flags in your story that mymistake has pointed out. If your wife decides she doesn't want to work things out, then there isn't much you can do about that.

 

If you look at my profile, I have links to my extimony and when I came out to my wife about the fact I was no longer a believer. The short version is that I was a believer for over twenty years, married the daughter of an Assemblies of God pastor, and completely stopped believing in God sometime around 2008 or 2009.

 

About a year and a half after telling my wife I no longer believe, things still aren't quite right with our marriage. We just never, ever talk about anything controversial, which means we barely talk about anything of consequence at all. She's not threatening to leave, and I have no immediate plans to leave, but I don't feel like our marriage will ever be what it was before. My marriage has survived, but I don't know if it has a real future.

[Geezer]

My deconverson was long drawn out process. I bought and read a small library of books written by religious historians. My wife was hosting a Christian book club during that time. Since she ordered so many books on a regular basis she got free shipping from Amazon. I had her order the books I was reading. I knew her curiosity would encourage her to read the summary of the books content that is on the page where the book is purchased. So, I knew she was aware of the material I was reading. She would occasionally ask a question or make a comment about a book she had ordered for me but that never lead to any kind of in depth discussion.

 

I was a bible teacher for 30+ years while I was a Christian. My wife usually attended the classes I taught. I’m sure she was aware that my beliefs were evolving. The day eventually came when my “beliefs” were no longer compatible with the group we’d been associated with for nearly 30 years. We left that group and eventually affiliated with a somewhat more open minded group. That worked for awhile but eventually I evolved beyond their way of thinking too. The final stage of my deconversion eventually came and I realized that Christianity wasn't true, and a human being known as Jesus of Nazareth probably didn't actually exist. I knew I could no longer pretend that I was a believer.

 

I was not and am not militant about my lack of belief. I can easily be in the presence of Christians and not make waves. I respect their right to believe whatever they want. My wife and I have been married for 48 years and we were both Christian during most of that time. I changed, she didn’t, so I feel an obligation to respect her beliefs and not make an issue out of the fact I am no longer a Christian. The day came when she asked me point blank if I believed in God and Jesus. I answered her honestly and told her no.

 

The congregation we’ve been attending for the last eight years did project a fundamentalist mindset. I tried to make that work but it was enormously difficult. I eventually had a sit down with my wife and told her how difficult it was for me to be in that environment. We reached a compromise and we now attend a very liberal mega church that advertises itself as the church for people who don’t like church. I have to admit that I don’t have a problem being in that environment. Their services are more like a Christian rock concert with a message presented in a way that is close to a choreographed theatrical performance.  It’s more like going out for an evening of entertainment than going to church, and I can deal with that.

 

My marriage is far more important to me than letting the world know I’m not a Christian.  My wife is a Christian and I’m not. We are both aware of who we are and we are willing to leave it at that. It takes a willingness to compromise by both parties for a situation like ours to work and I am aware that isn't always possible.

[Geezer]

I noted my personal experience. I will add this based on articles I've read as well as what I've heard from others going through this process.

 

 

1. Try to empathize with your mate. Remember what it was like when you were a believer.
2. It is perfectly normal for Christians, especially those indoctrinated into fundamentalism, to have a closed mind. Because they have been indoctrinated they cannot relate to any truth other than that which has been programmed into their minds.
3. They are fully committed to a world view that is filled with endless contradictions, inconsistencies, fantasies and imaginary realities.
4. They must deal with their own cognitive dissonance on a daily basis.  
5. They often relate to the idea that unbelievers are of the devil or have been deceived by the evil one.
6. Any information that challenges their faith is false and comes from the devil.
7. Lack of faith is the most serious sin a human can experience because that cuts them off from Christ saving blood and leaves god no choice but to condemn them for all eternity.

That is what an unbeliever is up against. How does an unbeliever overcome that?  I honestly don’t think, in most cases, that mindset can be reversed until the believer begins to see the flaws and develops doubt on their own. Until they have doubt their mind will simply not process any information, in most cases, that challenges their faith.

 

How does a non-believer co-exist in that environment? If there is any hope of reaching them it must come out of an attitude of understanding, being non-confrontational, and a willingness to accept your mate where there are. If there is any hope in reasoning with them it will likely take years not months, weeks, or days to gain their confidence. I think the best approach is to remove yourself from the conflict. When, or if, your mate becomes sufficiently receptive to at least look at the other side of the coin refer them to the historical critical scholarship approach to religion and explain the difference between that and apologetics. Then supply them with some appropriate reading material. Experience suggest you might want to start with liberal Christian apologist like Marcus Borg. In other words ease into the process. Plant the seeds of doubt that the bible is in anyway inspired and/or inerrant.

 

If the marriage is to survive somebody has to step up and be the grown up in the relationship and that isn’t likely to be the Christian. The non-believer is going to have to be the bigger person if the marriage is going to survive. The non-believer will have to develop a thick skin, develop the patience of Job, and above all do not be confrontational. Your Christian mate has been brainwashed and therefore lacks the ability to process information in a reasonable, logical, and rational manner. They have to be de-programmed before they will have any hope of logically and rationally processing the information you want them to see.

 

Your mate is a member of a cult. All members of cults lack the ability to think for themselves. That ability has to be restored before there can be any hope of re-educating them. In order to make all of that happen you are going to have to really love your mate more than yourself and be enormously patent with them.

 

That is going to be difficult because anger and revenge is a normal part of the de-conversion process. The desire to re-educate all believers is also a normal part of the de-conversion process. Those who are going through the de-conversion process are convinced Christians desperately want to know the truth and are eager for someone to educate them. Unfortunately, that is absolutely not true. The truth is that they think you, the former believer, have lost you mind and are now possessed by the devil himself.  The sad truth is they don’t care what you know, or think you know, and they certainly don’t want you telling them their faith is in vain because it has been placed in a manmade religion that evolved from pagan myths, legends, and folklore.

 

Saving the marriage will probably be the one of the biggest challenges of your life.  I wish you well in your decision and journey.

[Positivist]

I'm not a guy, but I was a Christian with a conservative view for many years. Spiritual strength and clear-headedness was what I looked for in a partner. I fell in love with "the Jesus" in my husband (I know, I know...). So I can see how wives are completely destabilized by their husband's deconversion. These wives see themselves as passengers, not as drivers; they see faith as the foundation of life, family and future. So when the driver (the husband) deconverts it's perceived and experienced as the worst thing ever.

 

I'm one of the lucky ones; my husband's faith was already battered when we married and he had skeptical inclinations (more than I). When I lost my faith, he eventually did too, as he'd witnessed my journey and lived my deconversion vicariously. It was not fun, but we've made it through to the other side.

 

mymistake mentioned that it depends on the extent of the indoctrination, and it's true. It also depends on how adept your wife is at building extensive cognitive frameworks to assuage any cognitive dissonance. I was very good at this, which meant that I was able to argue away anything rational that conflicted with the Bible. It also meant that my deconversion happened in my late 30s instead of much earlier in life. I should have listened to my brain, instead of hitting the "silence" button on all the alarms that kept going off in my head.

 

My husband's family and my family are still believers. They don't know the extent of my "loss of certainty", but what I am doing is being a better person. I want to shine a new light around me so that I'm a better person, daughter, wife, etc. than I was as a believer.

 

Keep us posted. It's a rough road but many guys here are in the same boat as you.

Peace!

[hereticzero]

I was a fundamentalist, So. Baptist for over 45 years, and a minister from 1987 to 2003. My wife was conservative in her Christian beliefs but more moderate as a Pentacostal. I was fortunate that my wife eventually saw through the mythology of religion. I did not try to deconvert her, I just gave her the information I found and let her arrive at her own conclusions. She is more agnostic than I am, I consider myself an atheist because I do not believe in Christianity any more. She never played 'conditional love' nor withheld intimacy. She did not try to keep me on a leash. I refuse to play those kinds of games. If all that held us together was faith in mythology then we did not have a real relationship, in which case I would have sued for divorce. She can believe in what she wants to, she can go back to church any time she wants to but I doubt she will. The last time we attended church was because she wanted to see how she felt after being gone from it so long (same reasons I had, to remind myself why I left). She told me she never wanted to attend another church again. Too many Christians were showing their true selves after Obama's election and reelection. We believe too much in equal rights and separation of church and state. We also know our American history so those in the church cannot divide us with who were the founding fathers? In short, they may have been of different religious backgrounds but the majority were racists and many owned slaves throughout the revolutionary war and American history is also what helped my wife choose between reality and religious doctrine. We don't play games with our relationship to each other (married now for 21 years). If we had to fight over Jesus and beliefs in God, we would just call it quits and get a divorce.

[Ellwood]

This has been a fantastic series of posts.   I really appreciate the wisdom and experiences shared.   I too am dealing with a believing wife but I think in this case I am going to play the listener here and try to absorb all that has been posted.   Thanks to all who have contributed.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I was fortunate enough to have a wife who deconverted (mostly) at the same time I did. But I strongly echo the postings of Geezer and Positivist. The believer really does see the unbeliever as controlled by the devil, and thus a threat to her and the kids. The pastor and staff will echo this back to her, and talk of being unequally yoked, etc. They will try and draw this as a very black and white thing, viewing you with almost racist disgust. The scriptures paint just such a picture and they will assume that you are going to become really vile, and have actually chosen to do so. None of it is true, but that is how they see reality. Religion can be so destructive.

 

Keep demonstrating your love for your family, and speak words of love. I don't know what else you can do.

[RogueScholar]

I am still married post deconversion. I wish I could say it's been easy and that everything worked out. Unfortunately, that is not the case. My advise is try to be as supportive, loving and respectful as possible. State your beliefs and why you believe what you do. Initially, it may not go well. My wife initially denied that I was an atheist, continuously telling me I was just agnostic. I had to keep focusing on the fact that most atheists are agnostic in a certain sense but atheism was more about what one believes. We eventually settled into "that's just something we don't talk about" mode. We recently had a conversation where she was angry about me discussing my atheism with her. I had to admit that I feel absolutely isolated and alone, I have virtually nobody to talk with about my atheism. I'm not sure how things will eventually turn out. My thoughts are with you. I hope that love and respect between you and your wife are stronger concepts than religious beliefs. Take things slow and see how it goes.

[midniterider]

Hi everyone,

 

I've been going through a fairly slow and painful deconversion process...  At this point, I've let go of "fundamentalism" - inerrancy, Christianity as the "only way", etc.  I'm hoping I can piece together some form of liberal Christianity that I could believe in, but I'm not so sure that it is likely.  [why hope that?  it would make my family life much better if I could...]

 

This question goes out to all of the members - especially men - who were married to strong, conservative Christian wives - and whose marriages survived.  HOW did it survive???

 

My wife knows where I stand (I've described myself as "questioning" and "no longer certain" as those are the best I can come up with).  She has responded VERY POORLY.

 

Though I've tried to assure her that I really am the same guy - I'm still totally committed to her, still have every intention of keeping my marriage vows - to love her faithfully and sacrificially until death, I'm still committed to being the best father I can be (we have two little girls 5 and 7, both adopted), I still want to give generously to the poor / orphaned / etc.

 

But she says "it's not the same".  "I don't know who you are anymore".  "If you fully deconvert, we can't adopt any more children" (something I deeply long to do).

 

She's ended intimacy as of two weeks ago. 

 

She claims to want to work things out.  I feel like I am giving 110% to heal this marriage - trying to be the most loving and kind and patiend husband and dad...  But she distrusts my motives - saying "you're just being nice so I don't leave you".  

 

I made the mistake of probing her reasons for believing (such as asking: "Did you look at all of the troubling passages in the Bible before you committed your whole life to it - like smashing babies against rocks, ripping open pregnant women, hacking/bludgeoning old people, crippled people, women and children, then raping the girls who just saw their parents get killed... etc?")   As you can guess, that did NOT go over well.

 

My point WASN'T to deconvert her, but to help her stop CONDEMNING / DETESTING me for struggling.  I'm fine with her believing - I just want her to not BLAME me for doubting...

 

She says she is open to counseling - with a psychologist/MFT.  I've narrowed it down to a few and I'm waiting for her to give feedback.

 

The feeling of being "conditionally loved" is the most painful I have ever imagined.

 

I feel like I could never again be good enough for her respect (which I don't think I ever had any way).

 

You might wonder why I love her.  I see her for who she is inspite of the ways her belief-system causes her to act toward me.  I love her typical sweetness, brilliance, compassion, and humor.  She has been an amazing friend and wife of 12 years.  My only problem with her is her problem with me. = )

 

There are days when I just want to die.  I can't imagine divorcing her - I'm so sentimental and could not be happy knowing that she would be so UNHAPPY.  Per her beliefs, she could never remarry with God's approval so she would likely live alone the rest of her life.  Though I would want to remarry, I don't know that I could with joy, thinking so often of her alone.

 

But I can't imagine living in a "platonic" marriage for the rest of my life feeling personally rejected every single day.

 

Any help would be so appreciated.  Even just to hear your stories - just reply with a link if you've already shared - even if they aren't all THAT similar - would be therapeutic.

 

Thank you.

 

Sorry for your predicament. But I've been divorced and it's not the end of the world. I'm not saying you should get a divorce but from what you've wrote it looks like you may be allowing her to dictate what happens next. My ex used to control my behavior with certain actions and words. If I was getting too out of hand she could always rein me back in to her control by mentioning divorce. Then one day I mentioned divorce and actually did it. Her control evaporated.

 

I hope you both get counseling and it would be helpful to find out via the counselor if your wife really loves (or loved) you or just a man that is a Christian. I would not want you to become your wife's slave. She seems to be withholding love and 'services.' I would put the brakes on that. It sounds like she has struck fear into you. Become fearless and show her that you will continue to be exactly who YOU are, not her version of who you are. You have done nothing wrong nor are you anything less because of your beliefs. You are both equals.

 

I know that I will only put up with so much crap. If my current wife were to continue to be angry at me for my deeply held belief (or non-belief) then I would leave and find happiness elsewhere. One perk of the both of us being in our second marriage is we both recognize that we will only put up with so much shit from our spouse and then it's adios. Neither one of us attempt to control the other...too much. :-)

 

She can love her Jesus, but really he doesnt talk much. Not like an actual human being. He's rather non-existent in most respects. It's much better to have human being in your house to love. Jesus doesn't replace loneliness.

 

I may be totally off-base with this reply to your problem. If so, please disregard it.

[Margee]

 I fell in love with "the Jesus" in my husband So I can see how wives are completely destabilized by their husband's deconversion. These wives see themselves as passengers, not as drivers; they see faith as the foundation of life, family and future.

 

 

 

Good post Miss P.

 

This was also a point I made along time ago on the board. If my husband had jesus in his heart...that meant to me that he would never lie, cheat, steal, treat me like a queen... blah, blah, blah....   To marry a regular man would have meant you would have to worry about all those things. Duh.. how stupid can ya be? Anyway, what I wanted to throw in the mix is just to continue treating her with as much respect and love as you can.

 

Hint: I have ever so slowly.. ever soooo slowly........ deconverted my husband in the last 3 years.  I don't even know if he realizes how deconverted he is!!!!  

 

Best to you on your journey Insightful. It's a little rough sometimes, but keep posting , and we'll always be here to support one another and help you through. *hug*

[RipVanWinkle]

"My marriage is far more important to me than letting the world know I’m not a Christian."  Geezer

 

I agree 100% with this sentiment. Al of the posts on this thread are good, but I particularly like Geezer''s and Margee's. Keep loving your wife and don't rock the boat. I sincerely wish you complete success. It's tough. I, too, have been there and I'm still there. My wife and I stay off the topic. I lucky. She does not have the "soul" of the radical Xtian. She loves all kinds of people.   bill

[Insightful]

Hi everyone,

 

THANK YOU so very much for these replies.  A huge benefit of this site is how it helps one feel less ALONE in this process...

 

Geezer - thank you for helping me see the world through my wife's eyes.  I appreciate the wisdom greatly.

 

Positivist - "these wives see themselves as passengers rather than drivers" - SPOT ON.  Thanks for that reminder.

 

Everyone else - thank you for the encouragements and warm wishes.  What came through over and over again was:

 

1.  Be patient

2.  Keep on loving my wife and family consistently

3.  I can't determine her ultimate response

 

Understanding where she is at will help me be patient.  I definitely lover her enough to give her time. 

Things already feel much less tense.

[RaLeah]

I realized I had doubts before I married, and I resolved to get to the bottom of it for myself before I married. My husband (like me) is from a Christian home and deconverted in his teens. However, his parents are a good example of what you're going through now and hoping to achieve eventually. His mother goes to church regularly, his father does not. His siblings all attend church, except for him. (All of my family still goes to church, except my youngest sister has been feeling less enchanted by the whole church thing lately.) 

 

It seems like my in-laws have a strong and happy marriage despite one being a believer and the other a non-believer. For special occasions, he'll go (and we do too, like for baby dedications and christenings and stuff). But mostly, they each do their own thing on Sunday. But he's always been a consistent and loving husband and he stopped attending when the kids were still living at home, so they needed to stick together. They decided to let their kids make up their own mind. (That's how my husband got to opt out as a teenager.) 

 

I agree you're in a delicate situation right now. As an atheist who doesn't need to de-convert anyone, I don't mind not engaging in arguments about the Bible or bringing up the subject at all. I also don't have any qualms about letting people believe what they want to about what I believe. 

 

My older sister is a very liberal Christian, who goes to a progressive Presbyterian church. You might find their services tolerable. (At least, you could sit through a service without squirming. They seem to emphasize doing good work in their community and positive messages rather than hellfire and brimstone types of messages.) 

 

While I was de-converting, but not quite comfortable letting go of God yet, I told certain family members that I still believed in God, and I DID once upon a time "get saved" and meant it with all my heart; and once saved, always saved, right? So they didn't have to pray for my soul. I also said, when I pray, I trust God is still hearing me, because I'm not living some crazy sinful life, so whether I have that contact to God through Jesus dying on the cross and the holy spirit dwelling within me... or just because God loves everyone and it doesn't matter... I'm covered. Maybe Jesus is the bridge to God, I said, Maybe not. It doesn't matter, because I still do have that privilege to pray and seek the highest purpose for my life, and to live with love and integrity. (I find that the biggest hurdle with Christians is that they are worried for my soul and don't want me to go to hell.) 

 

If you don't feel terrible about fibbing or white lies in order to hold your family together, you could try this moderate, progressive approach. It might not fully satisfy your wife, but it might be more palatable to her than atheism. 

 

If you can't give your wife the satisfaction of re-converting, perhaps just assuring her that you're still seeking God's path for your life and still striving to do the right thing will help her feel that you're safe. Christians are great at denial; give her the ability to deny in her mind that you are not right with God. She wants to have that little ray of hope to reassure herself. You can give that to her if you don't find it too terribly distasteful. 

 

I think you should recommend a very liberal church, and you can explain that you feel the fundamental churches are too much like the Pharisees' version of Christianity: all self-righteous and judgmental legalism and too focused on the rules and missing the bigger point--to love and serve each other and make the world better. You shouldn't have to scare people into doing the right thing; you should show love to your community so THEY want to investigate your church and be a part of it. 

 

If I HAD to do it for family, I could tolerate going to my sister's liberal Presbyterian church once a week for the sake of keeping peace, even as an atheist. Maybe you can find that kind of a compromise with your wife too. 

 

Also... doesn't the Bible have a verse about a spouse married to an unbeliever, saying they should stay together and the believing spouse should by example perhaps win their spouse over? I think that might be an avenue worth exploring. 

 

Long term, if she stays very fundamentalist Christian, it might not hold, because you'll be forced to keep playing a role that isn't 100% true to yourself and who you are. However, you have young children, and children do better in households where their parents stay together (both financially and emotionally.) As long as you can without being totally miserable, I'd encourage you to try to hold it together, at least until your kids have grown up. On the other hand, if she is really indoctrinating them hard, it might actually be better for them if you can be who you are and allow them to have an example of someone who has left Christianity so that they don't stay brainwashed. This is something you'll have to think through carefully and decide for yourself. 

 

I wish you all the best as you struggle with this. You'll always have friends and a support system here. 

[Geezer]

Reading over this tread again a thought came to my mind. What wouldn’t you do for someone you deeply love? Would you lay down your life to save theirs? I believe most people would say yes. Would you give them one of your kidneys to save their life? I’m pretty sure you would. I’ll ask again, what wouldn’t you do for someone you deeply love?

 

Would you be willing to go to church with them, or at least allow them to believe whatever they want about God and not hassle them about it? If you don’t love them at least that much,……do you really love them at all?

 

Is going to church, and enduring a hour of religion once a week, really too much of a sacrifice for someone you say means more to you than life itself? Really? When emotion is allowed to rule that often results in needless controversy that all too often escalates into an unwanted and unanticipated tragedy. Surely your love for your mate is stronger than the emotional discomfort of enduring a religious service once a week for an hour.  

[RipVanWinkle]

"When emotion is allowed to rule that often results in needless controversy that all too often escalates into an unwanted and unanticipated tragedy. Surely your love for your mate is stronger than the emotional discomfort of enduring a religious service once a week for an hour." Geezer

 

Right again, Geezer. I really do look at love as a commitment, whatever else it may be. Emotions fluctuate, a commitment doesn't. I have experienced over 50 years of marriage. Believe me, if emotions dictated how long we would be married, she would have left me long ago, or I would have left her. We were and are both determined that that will never happen. And it won't.

 

Xtians say this is the type of love that we should give to god. Bit there is a slight difference. My wife really does exist.

 

I'm not saying my type of commitment is going to work for every couple. Some couples clearly should never have gotten married. My only answer to that problem is for you to really know the person you are planning to marry beforehand.    bill

[kolaida]

As others said, it really depends on the kind of person she is.  I'd also like to say as a woman, when I was a Christian, I was also looking for "Jesus" in a mate ( oh wow, you never really realize how bizarre that is until you no longer think of Jesus as a some divine spirit entity). Women within that faith are also generally taught to "obey" their husbands.  So, I could see how it might be terrifying for her to be going through this. That said, HOWEVER, you are still YOU and you can't bend your whole life to the whims of one other person, love or no love, married or not.  She can take you as is or not.  If she chooses to live the rest of her life alone, I'm sorry, but that is her choice. Yes, it sucks, that she was raised with those beliefs and, yes, it sucks that people change, but they do and that's life. It won't be your fault if she lives alone.  Hopefully, she'll get over this, but I also saw some red flags in the initial post. I hope things work out, but if they don't, as midniterider pointed out, it won't be the end of the world.  

[TrueFreedom]

Welcome, Insightful!  I completely stopped believing about a year before revealing it to my wife.  I looked for opportunities for her to learn about evolution before letting on that I was 100% convinced of the evidence for it.  I also did not hesitate to point out absurdities in scripture and in sermons at the church that I still attended and tithed to.  Revealing that I no longer believed in gods was devastating for her at first, but she eventually came around and came to agree with me about most things.  It helped that she was willing to listen to Bart Ehrman audio books and watch scientific documentaries.  Deconverting was the hardest thing that either of us had ever gone through.  I wish you the best!

[Lerk]

I just realized that I never replied in this thread. I had something all typed up and my wife walked in, soIi closed the browser. She knows I don't believe, but I still hide any activity such as this, and she doesn't know what I'm reading.

 

You've gotten so really good advice thus-far. I'll just add a little of my own experience. My wife has all sorts of medical issues and really bad depression, and as she was expressing doubts at dinner one evening ("why doesn't God ever seem to answer prayers?") I basically agreed that prayers never, ever get answered. That opened the door, and she asked if I even believed anymore, so I told her the truth.

 

The first thing that happened was that she felt guilty. She feels guilty about a lot of thngs, but her reason here was that she thought she had caused the doubt in my mind. I didn't let her keep believing that, but explained what it was that caused me to realize it wasn't true.

 

The next several months were really stressful. Not as much as for you, since our children are grown, and there was no cutting off of sex as far as I could tell because it's pretty rare these days anyway. But she did at one point say she didn't think she could be married to an atheist, and we had several big blow-ups about the situation. We've rarely fought in our 32 years together, but it was really getting tense.

 

I finally just told her I wasn't going to discuss it anymore. I never actually stopped going to church because I'm still trying to keep up appearances to the outside world. But I now skip quite a bit, which I never did as a Christian. Because of her health, she misses quite a bit, and I'll actually go by myself on Sunday morning just sp people will say "they" were there this week.

 

She still knows I don't believe it and occasionally will ask me to make sure. (Bizarrely, she still expects me to say a prayer before we eat, and I do it!) I suppose she only halfway believes me. Yet I will not, absolutely will not, pray with her at bedtime or any other time when she's feeling like life is out of control and she needs some magical help, and I'm perfectly willing to explain that Earth and the solar system are 4.5 billion years old and that humans have some portion of Neanderthal genes. I may even cross that bridge with my fundamentalist children soon.

 

Anyway, cutting off discussion about it and going along to get along really helped out. Living as an atheist who practices some amount of Christianity for social reasons isn't great, but I've found it to be tolerable.

[leopardus]

Just so you know - my marriage did not survive. But your story was so very much like mine that I will respond and you can read, discard, or what have you.

My now ex-wife did not take it well when I told her. Over the next few years, things steadily degraded and she ended up adopting one of the most hateful attitudes I've ever seen. I tried counseling (with her and alone), reading books and working with the ideas, went with her to talk with the priest, talking to friends (Christian and non) in hopes of help/ideas, and more. She only grew in her hate. The religion so poisoned her that nothing could move her.

I eventually realized it was over and just prepared myself to move out and move on. It was ugly and painful, but now I'm far happier.

Truthfully, I hope you will have better results. But if things do degrade, let me give you a piece of advice a friend gave me (and I ignored to my pain); Be realistic about the relationship; if it reaches a point where it's going down with no sign of recovery, get out fast.

Like I said, I hope it never comes to that. Good luck.

[Denyoz]

Dear Insightful,

 

I just want to encourage you to be true to yourself.  Your first love is not your wife, it's yourself.  Your identity is the core of who you are, and your beliefs are the center of your identity.  Be true to that.  If this upsets your "loved ones", then ask youself if it's the real you that they love or the superficial you.  What would you want for your children?  I think self-realization is the most important thing.  Do it with love, and all should be good.  Pain is part of growing up, it's not a sign that something is wrong.  You have to grow up, your wife has to grow up, and your kids have to grow up.  Be a role-model of what it is to really grow up.

 

Cheers!

[florduh]

If you are not an equal partner with equal rights and freedom, then what's the point of this union? If someone's love is conditional, is it really love?

 

Just keeping it real. Sorry to be so blunt, but I see this situation all the time. For me, an ultimatum would be in order and I'd be ready to immediately move on if partnership equality wasn't forthcoming. Trying to maintain a hopeless relationship while pretending things could magically change sometime in the future can drag on painfully for years, even decades. 

[Aggie]

I'm still married about 7 years post-deconversion.  It's going well but it has been tough-- though much better now.

I don't go to church extremely rarely and that has been the best move I think.  I can't participate and it has a negative effect on me emotionally many times.  My ideal approach is to try to love, be patient, find common ground, and be wary of dogmatic "anti-theistic" approaches.  I married a kind person which has made all the difference.  It took some time, but she was eventually able to see/imagine how difficult the process of deconversion is-- that made her much more empathetic.  Good luck, you are certainly not alone.

[Storm]

If you are not an equal partner with equal rights and freedom, then what's the point of this union? If someone's love is conditional, is it really love?

You bring up a valid point. Tough questions like these require introspect and heavy evaluation.

I see where I am in this whole deconversion process and I look at my relationship with my wife and I see that things are ok. I wish I could just get everything out in the open and let the chips fall where they may, but at the same time, I have already been through one divorce, I don't want to go through it again. And this time I have a child, so it would only be worse. While my wife practices xtianity, her other virtues make our relationship worth keeping. I can honestly say that I didn't marry her because I saw her relationship with jesus as important, it was her I fell in love with. To me, a little inequality is something I am ok with at this point in my life. I have this forum and one friend I have confided in to at least talk to and keep some of the feelings from getting totally bottled up. Things may change for me in the future, but at this point, I am happy with where I am. I am still deconverting, and, with what I have seen in these forums, this process will take a long time. I can adjust my life as things change for me. I can't imagine life without my wife and child at this time. So, I am not willing to rock the boat.