A Whole New Life

[grayvioletta]

I've been reading and "lurking" here for awhile but I didn't ever want to post when I was still in my bitter phase. I started leaving my faith about 2 years ago but actually told my family and friends very recently. That was very eye opening for me. I've lost "friends" and chose to walk away from some on my own accord. My story isn't special. I just couldn't live with the inconsistencies in the bible anymore and the suffering that happens day to day. This forum has been very helpful in my deconversion. The hardest part though for me is something I hate myself for. What I've done to my kids. My children are 4 and 7. My 4 year old will be fine. He honestly doesn't care right now. But my sensitive 7 year old is who I worry about. We never went to church consistently because I hated the hypocrisy and wastefulness so that wasnt a big change. In fact 2 years ago we stopped altogether because my daughters Sunday school teacher told her she was born with a black heart. At that point I said see ya to the church but not my faith. About a year ago I was reading a story from a Childrens bible to my children and I thought to myself what kind of freakishly disgusting crap am I reading? So then I cut out all talk of the bible and god for good. But only recently have I told my beautiful daughter thats how I felt. How do you tell your 7 year old that you were wrong and shouldn't have exposed her to this? Basically I've told her the truth but I've also told her that when she's older she is more than welcome to explore any religion if she so chooses. I don't want to indoctrinate either of my children in any way.

[mymistake]

Welcome!  It doesn't sound to me like you did anything bad to your kids.  Sounds like you are a good parent.  You are looking out for them the best you know how and as you learn you will improve.  Seven is still quite young.  When she reaches that age when she outgrows Santa she will revisit her baby world view and reevaluate.  Just be there and support.  You will do fine.  It's great that you want them to choose their own path.

[pratt]

looks like no harm done at the moment,,,

 

probably teaching the kids how to think critically is better than believing in some BS horror stories from the bible

[creative]

I've been reading and "lurking" here for awhile but I didn't ever want to post when I was still in my bitter phase. I started leaving my faith about 2 years ago but actually told my family and friends very recently. That was very eye opening for me. I've lost "friends" and chose to walk away from some on my own accord. My story isn't special. I just couldn't live with the inconsistencies in the bible anymore and the suffering that happens day to day. This forum has been very helpful in my deconversion. The hardest part though for me is something I hate myself for. What I've done to my kids. My children are 4 and 7. My 4 year old will be fine. He honestly doesn't care right now. But my sensitive 7 year old is who I worry about. We never went to church consistently because I hated the hypocrisy and wastefulness so that wasnt a big change. In fact 2 years ago we stopped altogether because my daughters Sunday school teacher told her she was born with a black heart. At that point I said see ya to the church but not my faith. About a year ago I was reading a story from a Childrens bible to my children and I thought to myself what kind of freakishly disgusting crap am I reading? So then I cut out all talk of the bible and god for good. But only recently have I told my beautiful daughter thats how I felt. How do you tell your 7 year old that you were wrong and shouldn't have exposed her to this? Basically I've told her the truth but I've also told her that when she's older she is more than welcome to explore any religion if she so chooses. I don't want to indoctrinate either of my children in any way.

Just be honest with them. And let them make up there own minds.

You do not want to force a believe on children.

 

Some people belief in god, and some people don't believe in god. They probably want to understand and know both points of view.

Simply be a parent they can come to and ask questions.

 

They will be exposed to religion, and you cant do anything about it.

The only thing you can and should do is be there for your kids.

If they want to belief in god that is totally fine (aldo i understand you would prefer they didn't).

Just share your views with them so they are capable of seeing it from both points of view.

Give them the tools they need to think critically.

[Lerk]

Sounds to me like you're on the right track, just being honest.

 

You don't say really why you're concerned about your daughter. How has she reacted?

[RipVanWinkle]

Thank your lucky stars (if you are into that sort of thing) that you discovered that Xtianity is a myth while you and your children are so young. I didn't deconvert until my children were adults. One is pretty much a fundamentalist. 3 are definitely not Xtians. One is coming around, I think. She goes to church but does not have rigid beliefs. So, I've been pretty lucky with my kids.. My wife is a christian, but not a fundamentalists. She's not about to accept the hate that runs through a lot of Xtianity. Lucky again. She is  good person and that's counts for a lot, even if she's a Xtian. Indeed, to me, it's the most important thing.    bill 

[grayvioletta]

Sounds to me like you're on the right track, just being honest.

 

You don't say really why you're concerned about your daughter. How has she reacted?

Thank you all so much for the support. I really appreciate it. I'm more concerned about her because of how she reacts in general. Anything that I tell her that she doesn't want to hear or even something that just might be unpleasant gets her emotional. Not that I really have to tell her unpleasant things often. For example, it's raining and we can't go to the park as we planned. She won't throw a fit. She's honestly an amazing child. They both are. But she will tear up and get emotional about it. So when I told her that I didn't believe in the things that were written in the bible that was something that made her tear up. But she doesn't know anything that's in the bible other than the more simpler feel good stories. I just love my children so much. They're my world and I hope I don't screw them up.

[grayvioletta]

Thank your lucky stars (if you are into that sort of thing) that you discovered that Xtianity is a myth while you and your children are so young. I didn't deconvert until my children were adults. One is pretty much a fundamentalist. 3 are definitely not Xtians. One is coming around, I think. She goes to church but does not have rigid beliefs. So, I've been pretty lucky with my kids.. My wife is a christian, but not a fundamentalists. She's not about to accept the hate that runs through a lot of Xtianity. Lucky again. She is good person and that's counts for a lot, even if she's a Xtian. Indeed, to me, it's the most important thing. bill

I am very thankful I realized it while they were young. Thank you for pointing that out to me. That's encouraging.

[Mimimom]

"I just love my children so much. They're my world and I hope I don't screw them up."

 

Hi grayvioletta,

 

I can totally relate! I'm a mom of a 3 year old little boy and 1 year old little girl...my biggest issue with my new disbelief is what am I going to teach my children? How am I going to handle my relatives that want to indoctrinate them? I never in my wildest dreams would have imagined that I wouldn't be raising my children as Christians. Just wanted to let you know there's someone else here in the same boat. Someone recommended a podcast to me in my extimony post--  thethinkingatheist dot com podcast called  Secular Parenting with Dale McGowan

I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, but will soon, I thought i'd pass the info on to you as well. 

 

[claireann]

I really identify with what you've written. I also have a young daughter, she's just turned 9 and I stopped going to church about 6 months ago. She has been asking why we don't go and I've told her I don't believe in God anymore and the look on her face was just shock and confusion. Her answer was "But I want to!" so I'm in a bit of a tough place. The church is a half hour drive away and I'm the only one who took her, my husband has never been a believer. We don't live near anyone else in the church and I'm not sure what to do. Should I continue to bring her? I don't want her to be indoctrinated as I was, they're lovely people and she has a lot of friends there but I don't believe what they teach so I have no desire to return. Sorry, I'm jumping in on your thread but I'm curious what advice anyone would give you as I think it would apply to me too.

[mydisplayname]

I really identify with what you've written. I also have a young daughter, she's just turned 9 and I stopped going to church about 6 months ago. She has been asking why we don't go and I've told her I don't believe in God anymore and the look on her face was just shock and confusion. Her answer was "But I want to!" so I'm in a bit of a tough place. The church is a half hour drive away and I'm the only one who took her, my husband has never been a believer. We don't live near anyone else in the church and I'm not sure what to do. Should I continue to bring her? I don't want her to be indoctrinated as I was, they're lovely people and she has a lot of friends there but I don't believe what they teach so I have no desire to return. Sorry, I'm jumping in on your thread but I'm curious what advice anyone would give you as I think it would apply to me too.

 

 

I would ignore the fact that we're dealing with religion and church.

 

Your kid wants to go somewhere quite far once a week. If it was the movies and you didn't want to go but she did would you take her? If you would take her then you should consider taking her to church. If you wouldn't take her to the movies once a week when it's so far then I wouldn't take her and wouldn't feel bad about it.

 

My kid is only two, but there is absolutely no way I would drive 30 minutes to a place, wait there for half an hour and drive 30 minutes back if I didn't want to do it as well. She's 9. The fundies still has lots of time to brainwash her.

[RenaissanceWoman]

...they're lovely people and she has a lot of friends there...

 

My daughter is 8, so maybe I can help. I would suggest two ideas: Find some other social outlet for her, even if it's not Sunday morning (art class, sewing class, gymnastics, whatever interests her and is not a burden on your time and money). Then her social life at church won't be so important eventually.

 

Second thing: find something else for all of you to do together on Sunday morning. Since you and your husband don't go to church anyway, this is a golden opportunity for you to find something you all three like, and build a little bubble of love and support for her within your own nucleus. (I firmly believe that young girls who have a healthy relationship with their fathers don't need to seek out father figures as teen girls, quite as much as I did when I was a sexually active and attention-desperate teen, but I digress...)

 

For example: We go to walmart for groceries on Sunday mornings as a family. The place is pretty much empty then. Our daughter gets a small allowance every week if she does her weekly responsibilities, so she brings her money with her. We have plenty of time to browse the toy section, the crafts section, the video game section. We make mental notes of things she wants to buy, how much money she has, how much more she needs, what her priorities are, how many weeks it will take to save up for certain things. Sometimes she saves and decides wisely, sometimes she is completely impulsive and wasteful, and has to buy something that very day. Who cares? We are talking and making decisions. We also send her around to the next aisle to get the next thing on the list, and she enjoys throwing the paper towels down the aisle to daddy with the cart, and daddy lifts her to get stuff on the top shelves. We talk about what we are going to cook on what night, and what items we will need to make these favorite dishes. We debate which new flavor of ice cream we want to try. Silly stuff like that. Maybe at first your husband would think it sounds boring, but believe me, my macho husband absolutely loves grocery shopping with us girls.

 

To mix things up, sometimes we go to Denny's for breakfast. Or ride bikes around the lake. This morning daddy and daughter are snuggled together on the couch playing the new superheros video game they bought yesterday. (Daddy is the skilled Ironman, daughter is brute force Hulk.) Whatever you decide -- remember that your goal is to give her a weekly tradition / ritual that all of you can look forward to. Those church people will never replace the love and attention of her own parents. Their importance will fade away very quickly.

 

I can tell you from experience... I thought I had friends at church, and I relished the social stuff. But when the going got tough, the only people "there for me" were my husband and young daughter. That was a painful lesson for me. Your daughter doesn't realize it yet, but forming bonds with church people can be a dangerous thing -- and can set her up for serious heart break in the future. Some church people are great, but even the greatest of them will not lift a finger to help in your hour of need, and all (or all but maybe 1 or 2) of them will cave to the pressure of the group and not come to your rescue if you have an issue within the group. You will be ignored and cast aside quite quickly, to maintain the smooth running of the organization and their good standing within it. This is bitter, cynical experience talking here. Oh, the emotional torture!

 

My point is that you cannot control what will happen in an organization, no matter how "good" the people seem. It is based on community and fear. Just my opinion, but based on my experience and many of others on this site, I would encourage you to help her build relationships that are not doomed to fail. You and your husband are the best place to start. You can all always rely on each other, no matter what.

 

Sorry to go on so long. I hope this helps. You'll figure it out, Mom! Don't worry!

 

 

P.S. Welcome, grayvioletta! Thanks for starting this thread. Please check amazon for Parenting Beyond Belief, read the synopsis, then check your local library for it (free, lol). It has short little essays from all sorts of people, and you may enjoy easily-digestible nuggets of wisdom whenever you have 5 minutes here and there to pick it. You'll be fine, and your kids will be fine. Peace to you, Mom!

[Lerk]

 

 

Second thing: find something else for all of you to do together on Sunday morning. Since you and your husband don't go to church anyway, this is a golden opportunity for you to find something you all three like, and build a little bubble of love and support for her within your own nucleus.

 

 

I totally love all of your reply! I so regret having ever become a Christian, and then having raised my children in church as well. Such a wonderful life is available to those who are free from it! what a wonderful way to spend Sunday mornings.

[themonkeyman]

Howdie and welcome.

 

I’m still in my bitter phase there it’s a Good place to be its very refreshing bashing the non-existent prick that isn’t there.  Bet these ‘Friends’ were your best mates who would have took a bullet for u.  These same friends who loved you ‘ONLY’ because you said you loved Jesus.  What complete pricks.  I don’t call any Christians friends as I know there’s always a double motive.

 

How dare you say the bible isn't consistent-  You would well to remember that it was written by misogynistic cavemen when you get past that we will get past the legitimacy of its claims lol.

 

Sometimes I think Sunday school teachers should be locked up.  Seriously these people are poison to Children.  I think the ‘New Age’ Christians are the poison I went to Sunday school and my Sunday school was a very liberal Christian she was about 60 so her views were very open.  Now new age Christians are spineless using cunts.

 

I don’t have children so I don’t know what you should say to your kid.  Right now they trust you to be right at that age lol.  But if you go – See that building over there, People in there were not nice to mummy and do you see this book, Its dangerous it makes you turn evil.  I’m sure she will be so afraid of the bible and hate the church she will never want to go near them.

 

Read my rant about ‘First Baptist Church Dallas’ to get my view of Indoctrination.

[claireann]

 

...they're lovely people and she has a lot of friends there...

 

My daughter is 8, so maybe I can help. I would suggest two ideas: Find some other social outlet for her, even if it's not Sunday morning (art class, sewing class, gymnastics, whatever interests her and is not a burden on your time and money). Then her social life at church won't be so important eventually.

 

Second thing: find something else for all of you to do together on Sunday morning. Since you and your husband don't go to church anyway, this is a golden opportunity for you to find something you all three like, and build a little bubble of love and support for her within your own nucleus. (I firmly believe that young girls who have a healthy relationship with their fathers don't need to seek out father figures as teen girls, quite as much as I did when I was a sexually active and attention-desperate teen, but I digress...)

 

For example: We go to walmart for groceries on Sunday mornings as a family. The place is pretty much empty then. Our daughter gets a small allowance every week if she does her weekly responsibilities, so she brings her money with her. We have plenty of time to browse the toy section, the crafts section, the video game section. We make mental notes of things she wants to buy, how much money she has, how much more she needs, what her priorities are, how many weeks it will take to save up for certain things. Sometimes she saves and decides wisely, sometimes she is completely impulsive and wasteful, and has to buy something that very day. Who cares? We are talking and making decisions. We also send her around to the next aisle to get the next thing on the list, and she enjoys throwing the paper towels down the aisle to daddy with the cart, and daddy lifts her to get stuff on the top shelves. We talk about what we are going to cook on what night, and what items we will need to make these favorite dishes. We debate which new flavor of ice cream we want to try. Silly stuff like that. Maybe at first your husband would think it sounds boring, but believe me, my macho husband absolutely loves grocery shopping with us girls.

 

To mix things up, sometimes we go to Denny's for breakfast. Or ride bikes around the lake. This morning daddy and daughter are snuggled together on the couch playing the new superheros video game they bought yesterday. (Daddy is the skilled Ironman, daughter is brute force Hulk.) Whatever you decide -- remember that your goal is to give her a weekly tradition / ritual that all of you can look forward to. Those church people will never replace the love and attention of her own parents. Their importance will fade away very quickly.

 

I can tell you from experience... I thought I had friends at church, and I relished the social stuff. But when the going got tough, the only people "there for me" were my husband and young daughter. That was a painful lesson for me. Your daughter doesn't realize it yet, but forming bonds with church people can be a dangerous thing -- and can set her up for serious heart break in the future. Some church people are great, but even the greatest of them will not lift a finger to help in your hour of need, and all (or all but maybe 1 or 2) of them will cave to the pressure of the group and not come to your rescue if you have an issue within the group. You will be ignored and cast aside quite quickly, to maintain the smooth running of the organization and their good standing within it. This is bitter, cynical experience talking here. Oh, the emotional torture!

 

My point is that you cannot control what will happen in an organization, no matter how "good" the people seem. It is based on community and fear. Just my opinion, but based on my experience and many of others on this site, I would encourage you to help her build relationships that are not doomed to fail. You and your husband are the best place to start. You can all always rely on each other, no matter what.

 

Sorry to go on so long. I hope this helps. You'll figure it out, Mom! Don't worry!

 

 

P.S. Welcome, grayvioletta! Thanks for starting this thread. Please check amazon for Parenting Beyond Belief, read the synopsis, then check your local library for it (free, lol). It has short little essays from all sorts of people, and you may enjoy easily-digestible nuggets of wisdom whenever you have 5 minutes here and there to pick it. You'll be fine, and your kids will be fine. Peace to you, Mom!

 

 

Thank you so much for all of this RM. Wonderful advice and I agree completely. I already love Sunday's so much more now that I don't have to trek into another county, spending it doing something as a family is a great idea. 

 

Thanks!

[themonkeyman]

Was the church Presbyterian by any chance

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Was the church Presbyterian by any chance

 

Or Free Presbyterian?

[RenaissanceWoman]

 

 

 

Second thing: find something else for all of you to do together on Sunday morning. Since you and your husband don't go to church anyway, this is a golden opportunity for you to find something you all three like, and build a little bubble of love and support for her within your own nucleus.

 

I totally love all of your reply! I so regret having ever become a Christian, and then having raised my children in church as well. Such a wonderful life is available to those who are free from it! what a wonderful way to spend Sunday mornings.

 

 

Thank you! It took me three years to figure it out. I used to leave for church at 7:30 am for a final choir run-through, and to set up and warm up my trumpet. Hubby and small daughter showed up at 8:30 for the service, and sat in the pews. Part way through, daughter went out for "children's church" while hubby sat alone through the readings, sermon, and prayers (about half the service). After the service, I saw them for 5 minutes as we got coffee and donuts, then they went home. (Daughter didn't love sunday school, and hubby hated adult class.) I went back into the sanctuary to set up for our contemporary second service, with one last run-through of the music. (If daughter wanted to go to sunday school with her friends, hubby would sit in the back pews listening and chatting with the other band spouses who also hated adult bible class, then went home.) Then I stayed for second service, and helped tear down after. I got home around 12:30.

 

So that was 5 hours away from my family. I thought I was teaching her about commitment and service. She has no real regrets about that now (age 8), but is glad for new plans we are currenlty living.

 

Oh, and then we went to the grocery store when it was crazy busy with all the after-church crowd. Stressful and longer than necessary.

 

Our quality of family time is so much nicer on weekends without the shackles of church and its people.

[RenaissanceWoman]

 

Thank you so much for all of this RM. Wonderful advice and I agree completely. I already love Sunday's so much more now that I don't have to trek into another county, spending it doing something as a family is a great idea. 

 

Thanks!

 

 

One other thing to consider, and maybe even discuss with your daughter if you think it's appropriate: These church people who live so far away... do they ever make an effort to come see you at any other time outside of the convenient part where you deliver your daughter to them on Sunday? Do they come to her birthday party? Do they drive their kids over there for a play date? Do they invite her over to spend the night on Friday, or to go to the fair or the zoo with them or anything? Do they meet you for dinner out at a half-way location? Let me guess: no.

 

And one day, will they go out of their way for you if you're in a bind? When one of you is sick and you need help with child care or transportation? When you have car trouble and need a lift? I'm going to predict: no.

 

Not real friends. Just sayin'.