Afraid Of Death & Suffering

[MarieLP]

I'm a pretty anxious, black-and-white thinking person. I have always been concerned with the meaning of life. For a while, that meant I was a fundamental Christian, working in other countries to convert others. And more recently, that has meant that I am an atheist.

 

Anyways, my problem is that I am so anxious and scared. Whenever I get sick or have an impediment of any kind, I grow extremely anxious, thinking about how painful it is and how I can't deal with this pain. Or I think about upcoming pain (e.g. dentist, dr procedure) and I whip myself into such an anxious frenzy that I have to take a xanax.

 

Recently, I had my first UTI and the feeling of having to pee all the time caused panic attacks. Thursday I came down with some vertigo (yet didn't know it until Monday). All weekend I was extremely anxious, thinking again about how much I hate pain and disorientation and feeling bad. My body kept giving me adrenaline pumps because I was so anxious - and that made me feel sick. 

 

I work myself up into these frenzies because of my thoughts about fearing death and suffering. Yet I have no comforting story to give myself because I am right: I am going to suffer and I am going to die and there is no one taking care of me who really knows what's going on. Plus, no one else knows the answer either.

 

I feel absolutely desolate and very depressed. I am trying to get in to see my therapist but she is booked until I see her on the 14th. I am not on any head meds right now but I'm starting to think that I should. But my first psychiatrist appt isn't until November. 

 

I really just don't know what to do. I am afraid if this mental torture continues, I will not want to continue living my life - which has never been a fear before. I just want to stay home all day and watch TV - dive into some other reality and never come back up. 

 

I don't know who to talk to. I'm close to my mom but she's Christian. I've talked to my husband - he listens and cares but doesn't know the answer. My BFF also doesn't know what to say. I know I need to find my own reason for living my life and not being in despair all the time but I'm feeling absolutely hopeless right now. 

Has anyone else dealt with this overwhelming dread and fear about our limited lives and our assured pain and suffering? I can't just "not think about it" or "carpe diem". I can't get it out of my head that this is all a waste and the end is near. If I sound a little dramatic, that's because I feel a bit dramatic at the moment. Anything helpful would be so appreciated. 

[Overcame Faith]

Try thinking about something that is joyous to you, either that you have experienced or that you can look forward to experiencing. For me that might be something as simple as my little house dog sitting on my lap. For that brief time, my anxieties melt away as I scratch his ear and he looks at me with warm, accepting, and tender love in his eyes.

[pawn]

For me, I have no fear of death. Sure, suffering sucks, nobody wants to suffer, bits it's part of life. Dying is also part of life. I think of death as a great plunge into the unknown. Kind of like going to sleep, but permanent. Maybe consciousness outlasts death somehow, maybe not. If so , great, if not, you won't even know it. You'll just fast asleep like a baby.

So for me, I think of death like sleep. When we are really tired, we fall asleep and it's great. When our body breaks down, we die and don't have to bear the pain any more.

 

It's inevitable anyway, so I just decided to embrace it. When it comes, it comes, no need to be anxious about things out of my control.

 

Have you tried deep breathing, meditation techniques? They are clinically proven to help reduce anxiety. Media can help in extreme situations, which may be your case.

 

I wish you peace of mind. Breathe, relax, let go...

[pawn]

Meant to tour medication can help... Not "media" damn iPhone!

[Margee]

Marie, it's awful and I have been where you are. I am trying very hard to face all my fears 'smack' in the face!! Here's something that helped me a lot. Of course, I will still face the day I have to die and I'm not sure how it's going to end. None of us know that. I was born to be alive until I die and that's what I am trying to do.
 
This is an old Stoic philosophy where you write it all out in a journal. You literally say goodbye to yourself. It's called 'negative visualization' and it worked for me. Don't let this scare you. It's all good, but it takes some hard work and crying.. You prepare yourself for the day you, yourself... or one of your loved ones die. It's not morbid - you must trust me.

 

You go through your own funeral and watch yourself being dead. I have a whole document of my own obituary and the letter I want read out loud to all my family and friends. Basically, you grieve yourself. I cried through the whole thing. But it really did help to take the edge off of the worry of death.
 
People in the 'Stoic' philosophy do not take advantage of one minute or day of living. They know when their loved ones walk out the door they may never return. They are 'realists' and full of love. The old version of Stoic people was that they were cold hearted. That is far from the truth. They love with a passion and live with a passion, fully accepting that death is part of life.

 

 Their theory? ''The only breath you can be assured of is the one you are breathing right now....so you must live life to the fullest. You cannot fully face living until you accept your own death.'' The book explains the procedure on how to write it all out. It may be worth a try? The book is worth buying. It gets you to answer many, many questions.
 
 This is the I read book written by a stoic, ''A Guide To The Good Life'' and it was fabulous. Here's a little 'YouTube' that explains the book. Hope it helps hon. *hug*

[Blue elephant]

thanks for posting that Margee! food for thought! will look at it in more detail in a few weeks. I am on holiday in Italy at the moment.

[Blue elephant]

MarieLP

 

I am also quite afraid of pain and suffering. I am no longer afraid of what my destination is after death, but I am afraid of the possible pain and suffering of a death process, such as from cancer.

 

However, these days, a good hospice process will provide adequate pain relief for the process. And I do take quite a few painkilling medications. feel free to take medications to assist you with getting the most out of life. Try to avoid the self prescribed ones like tobacco, and too much alcohol.

 

a combination of therapy and medication is usually the best. Using medication u till the learning that comes with therapy kicks in sounds good.

[Adam5]

For me, I have no fear of death. Sure, suffering sucks, nobody wants to suffer, bits it's part of life. Dying is also part of life. I think of death as a great plunge into the unknown. Kind of like going to sleep, but permanent. Maybe consciousness outlasts death somehow, maybe not. If so , great, if not, you won't even know it. You'll just fast asleep like a baby.

 

Hi, nicely put.  I agree death is like an everlasting sleep, which we dont need to fear.

 

"Death does not concern us, because as long as we exist, death is not here. And when it does come, we no longer exist." .. Epicurus

[rach]

Death doesn't scare me at all.  I'm actually looking forward to it, love a good adventure into the unknown!  I've always been so curious about death and will be excited to give it a go when my time comes.

 

Suffering, on the other hand, is horrifying, and sometimes completely unavoidable.  I have a lot of fears about what I will suffer in the future.  When I was in Christianity they always taught us about Jesus coming back to magically transport us to heaven.  Now I know why they taught that so frequently.  Because it would save us from suffering!  Suffering is just scary and I don't know any remedy.  I do set little goals each day of things to accomplish and that helps keep me moving forward. 

[creative]

 

I'm a pretty anxious, black-and-white thinking person. I have always been concerned with the meaning of life. For a while, that meant I was a fundamental Christian, working in other countries to convert others. And more recently, that has meant that I am an atheist.

 

Anyways, my problem is that I am so anxious and scared. Whenever I get sick or have an impediment of any kind, I grow extremely anxious, thinking about how painful it is and how I can't deal with this pain. Or I think about upcoming pain (e.g. dentist, dr procedure) and I whip myself into such an anxious frenzy that I have to take a xanax.

 

Recently, I had my first UTI and the feeling of having to pee all the time caused panic attacks. Thursday I came down with some vertigo (yet didn't know it until Monday). All weekend I was extremely anxious, thinking again about how much I hate pain and disorientation and feeling bad. My body kept giving me adrenaline pumps because I was so anxious - and that made me feel sick. 

 

I work myself up into these frenzies because of my thoughts about fearing death and suffering. Yet I have no comforting story to give myself because I am right: I am going to suffer and I am going to die and there is no one taking care of me who really knows what's going on. Plus, no one else knows the answer either.

 

I feel absolutely desolate and very depressed. I am trying to get in to see my therapist but she is booked until I see her on the 14th. I am not on any head meds right now but I'm starting to think that I should. But my first psychiatrist appt isn't until November. 

 

I really just don't know what to do. I am afraid if this mental torture continues, I will not want to continue living my life - which has never been a fear before. I just want to stay home all day and watch TV - dive into some other reality and never come back up. 

 

I don't know who to talk to. I'm close to my mom but she's Christian. I've talked to my husband - he listens and cares but doesn't know the answer. My BFF also doesn't know what to say. I know I need to find my own reason for living my life and not being in despair all the time but I'm feeling absolutely hopeless right now. 

Has anyone else dealt with this overwhelming dread and fear about our limited lives and our assured pain and suffering? I can't just "not think about it" or "carpe diem". I can't get it out of my head that this is all a waste and the end is near. If I sound a little dramatic, that's because I feel a bit dramatic at the moment. Anything helpful would be so appreciated. 

 

We are all going to die.. and we cant do anything about it!

Its like paying taxes... we dont like it but deal with it.

Worry about death when you are death... worry about life when you are alive!

 

You dont need to find your own reasons for living...  that just making stuff more complicated.... You live FOR yourself! And you do with your life what YOU want.

 

Now you need to go and have some fun... life is so valuable and awesome...... its unfortunate most people start realizing this when they are on there dead bed or almost got killed (like me..p.s not something i like to talk about).

 

Now unless you want to get even more depressed, stay away from that TV.

Im hereby demanding you only watch fun stuff.. like your favorite series and movies. (stay away from depersing news and talk shows).

 

And do go out... grab a little nature.. a little sun.. play with the kids (if you have them).. any hobbys?? 

 

Fun puts meaning in our lifes.

[Yrth]

I'm a pretty anxious, black-and-white thinking person. I have always been concerned with the meaning of life. For a while, that meant I was a fundamental Christian, working in other countries to convert others. And more recently, that has meant that I am an atheist.

 

Anyways, my problem is that I am so anxious and scared. Whenever I get sick or have an impediment of any kind, I grow extremely anxious, thinking about how painful it is and how I can't deal with this pain. Or I think about upcoming pain (e.g. dentist, dr procedure) and I whip myself into such an anxious frenzy that I have to take a xanax.

 

Recently, I had my first UTI and the feeling of having to pee all the time caused panic attacks. Thursday I came down with some vertigo (yet didn't know it until Monday). All weekend I was extremely anxious, thinking again about how much I hate pain and disorientation and feeling bad. My body kept giving me adrenaline pumps because I was so anxious - and that made me feel sick. 

 

I work myself up into these frenzies because of my thoughts about fearing death and suffering. Yet I have no comforting story to give myself because I am right: I am going to suffer and I am going to die and there is no one taking care of me who really knows what's going on. Plus, no one else knows the answer either.

 

I feel absolutely desolate and very depressed. I am trying to get in to see my therapist but she is booked until I see her on the 14th. I am not on any head meds right now but I'm starting to think that I should. But my first psychiatrist appt isn't until November. 

 

I really just don't know what to do. I am afraid if this mental torture continues, I will not want to continue living my life - which has never been a fear before. I just want to stay home all day and watch TV - dive into some other reality and never come back up. 

 

I don't know who to talk to. I'm close to my mom but she's Christian. I've talked to my husband - he listens and cares but doesn't know the answer. My BFF also doesn't know what to say. I know I need to find my own reason for living my life and not being in despair all the time but I'm feeling absolutely hopeless right now. 

 

Has anyone else dealt with this overwhelming dread and fear about our limited lives and our assured pain and suffering? I can't just "not think about it" or "carpe diem". I can't get it out of my head that this is all a waste and the end is near. If I sound a little dramatic, that's because I feel a bit dramatic at the moment. Anything helpful would be so appreciated.

 

Sure have. There's definitely some whiplash when you deconvert and start to appropriate the knowledge that death is actually the end. At first, there was a period where it hurt all the time to think about, and I'd go in and out of denial and suppression. Eventually, I got better and better at ignoring my mortality to the point where there was no practical difference from pre and post deconversion. That was my experience. My wife's was different -- she realized and appropriated some of the implications almost immediately, and started being very concerned about whether she was wasting her time or making the best of ever moment because, as she would point out, she only gets one shot at living.

 

Generally, I still live like I'm immortal. But, when I can, I've been trying to meditate on death, something that is surprisingly life-affirming. I would recommend it when you're not feeling so upset. You simply sit and focus on everything you know, gradually expanding from things closest to you to remote things like stars and cold space, and imagine them all disappearing into nothingness, ending with yourself. You start to really appreciate just being alive.

 

Here's a related video of a speech given by Sam Harris addressing how atheists in particular can get a handle on the idea of death. It's really worth listening to, imo.

 

[wanderinstar]

Marie, you have already been given some great advice so I won't add much to it. Mostly I wanted to say I really feel for you. I have suffered anxiety, depression and panic attacks before and it is truly awful. You mentioned you feel like you might not be able to handle it for much longer, and I can totally understand why you feel that way. This concerns me. If it begins to feel like you are about to take action, please take yourself (or get your hubby to take you) to ER, or call a mental health hotline. Your life is precious. Another thing I used to do when suicidal was curl up in a ball on my bed and breath. I would not move until i knew I was safe to be walking around without killing myself.

 

Hang in there and keep fighting. You are stronger than you think. Life without god is actually more amazing to me than it was with God. It took some time for me to see it that way but now I live in awe of the universe (unless I am deeply depressed) and thankful to simply have a chance to experience it all, despite the intense suffering I have experienced. Breathe and give yourself time. I am glad you have sought help and I hope the therapist and psychiatrist are able to help you recover. 

[amateur]

Oh, UTIs and vertigo -- those are AWFUL!!!  I wouldn't wish either of those on anybody.  

 

I'm just sympathizing with you on the UTI and vertigo -- I've had occasional UTIs over the decades and got hit with a random attack of vertigo a few years ago out of nowhere.  Absolutely hideous.  For the UTIs:  drink a LOT of cranberry juice at the very first sign, always wipe front to back after peeing, always try to pee before sex and definitely after sex, and wear cotton underwear.  Also, your doctor can give you antibiotics that will wipe it out in a couple days -- take them all and keep drinking lots of water and cranberry juice.

 

 

Everybody else here had great advice for the anxiety and depression.  Hang in there til November 14th and seeing your therapist.  Keep posting on here and keep talking to your husband and BFF, even if people don't understand perfectly it helps to talk it out.

 

((hugs))

 

[MarieLP]

Everyone - sorry it's taken me a little while to respond. I appreciate all of your feedback so much and just being able to talk to a group of people who know where I'm coming from. The anxiety has reduced a little and I've decided to start adding a little meditation (guided imagery and progressive muscle relaxation) into my nightly routine. I see my therapist on Monday and the psychiatrist next month. In the meantime, I'm just hanging on - I'm not really productive at all after work. Usually just lay on the couch and watch TV. But I figure that's what surviving is at the moment. 

[Positivist]

Hi MLP,

 

I totally get it. I have been suffering incredibly for the last 10 years. Only in the last year have I found relief from the otherwise life-gobbling, faith-destroying, relationship-killing intractable migraines (due to undiagnosed gluten intolerance/celiac and dairy intolerance) that nearly destroyed me, my life, and the lives of those around me. I lost my faith through this pain-filled time. I find pain and suffering easier to manage as an atheist (I, too, am black-and-white), because I no longer wonder why god, who is better than any earthly parent (   ), would let me suffer so relentlessly, without end, and without a stitch of hope or comfort. As an atheist, I'm like, "I suffer because I am alive, and in suffering, I join the rest of the creatures, past, present and future, on this planet".

 

Life is, without a doubt, very hard and full of pain.

[greylight]

Hi Marie,

I just wanted to add my voice along with the other people here. I was pretty much going through the same thing when I lost my faith in god. I would obsess over it, and it felt like there was no one I could talk to or anyone who would understand. It helped finding websites like this, and it also helped when I started to talk to my therapist. It is something I still struggle with at times. I became an atheist pretty recently and I already feel better off then I was when I first became and atheist, it's different how people respond to these things.

[RipVanWinkle]

Marie: I just want to add something from the perspective of a "senior citizen", a euphemism for old fossil or worse. My fear of death has diminished as I got older. It occurred to me that there are things that are worse than death, like living in fear -- of death or anything else. Death doesn't hurt you. you won't feel any fear then.

 

As a matter of fact one of the most horrible things about Xtianity is that it claims to take away death (a relief from long suffering)and replace it with eternal torture or a boring life praising Jesus forever. I choose death, thank you very much. I'm serious

when I say that death is not the problem;living is the problem. If you think of it as

the only life you will ever have (probably) then consider it a "miracle" and make the

most of it. Nobody has ever failed at dying.

 

As far as pain is concerned, you don't know that you will suffer. A lot of people die

instantly with no pain or very little. My mother-in-law died in her sleep, peacefully. Morphine and other pain relievers work wonders in alleviating pain. If pain is too bad,

they can even put you in a coma. Suffering is not as certain as it used to be, thanks

to modern medicine. I firmly believe it will not be as bad as you think. But if you

have pain, be thankful that it ends, unlike eternity in hell, the gift from the vicious mythical god. I wish you well. bill

[RaLeah]

Hi, MarieLP.

 

We always fear what we can't control. We will all die, but not all of us will suffer as we die. (I have relatives who died in their sleep, died of a stroke or heart attack very quickly, died on heavy pain medication surrounded by loved ones, etc.) Not all dying is years of suffering followed by merciful relief of death. Also, if a death occurs relatively quickly, the body releases a flood of endorphins that numbs the pain pretty effectively. There are some interesting books of people who went through a brain aneurysm or stroke who recovered fully and wrote about the experience as kind of amazing and profound before they lost consciousness, and it wasn't physically painful. 

 

If you want to have more control though, speak to a trusted friend, relative, and/or spouse about your last wishes. Sometimes having a will set up and making sure people who love you know that you don't want to be on a respirator or have a feeding tube... or if you do... it helps to have that down in writing as a record. If you want to have a DNR (do not resuscitate order) in the event there might be brain damage, make sure your loved ones are aware of that. 

 

Also... pain medication is pretty awesome these days. If you DO have a prolonged illness, there will be some relief to your suffering. 

 

Meanwhile, don't dread the future. All of us, just by living, know there are chances we could be hit by a car, etc. and die any day. But we can't live day by day afraid of that. Learning to live in the present while planning for the future is the best way to exist. Once you have plans in place for what happens in an emergency event, you don't have to stress about them anymore or worry about some day. Just think about right now. Trust yourself, that you can and will handle difficulties when and if they arrive. 

 

I used to fret about things I couldn't control too. I realized that stressing about them didn't decrease the likelihood of them occurring or help prepare me in any way. I had a sort of superstitious thought though, that if I expected bad things to happen all the time, at least I wouldn't be surprised or caught off guard when they happened, and that seemed like a comforting protection. But it wasn't. It just made my day-to-day life more unhappy than it needed to be. 

 

It does take a shift in mindset to say to yourself: Bad things and good things are going to happen to me. I will deal with the bad things WHEN they happen, but not until they do. I will enjoy fully when good things are happening without allowing a dark shadow of "but this can't last" to hang over my head. Because bad times don't last either. 

 

Mostly, you are healthy. Sometimes, you are sick. When you are sick, you can muddle through, see a doctor, take some medicine, drink hot tea, eat chicken soup, sleep, and take care of yourself. When you are feeling well, you can enjoy your friends, enjoy nature and taking walks, reading, listening to music, enjoy good food, appreciate each day. 

 

YOU are in charge of your thoughts. YOU can change them and redirect them if they start to slump or go in a direction you don't like. But I won't lie: It takes practice. It takes some mental discipline. You can do it. Right now, you have a bad thought habit that keeps plaguing you. Take charge of it. Listen to what you're saying to yourself, then argue with it, and win the argument. Keep doing it until you bully away the bad thought and it quits troubling you. It's YOUR brain and YOUR life, and you are going to take charge of it. Don't forget that. 

 

I know you're in a tough and scary place right now, but the good news is, you don't have to stay there. Keep believing that you can change it and get out of it. People change their mental habits all the time for the better, and so can you!

 

Best of luck to you! Love and hugs!

[Burt_Lemur]

I feel that reflecting on being an ex-Christian can be very comforting in relation to matters of suffering and death. Yes, we'll all suffer in some way and eventually die. But as an ex-Christian, you are free from what I believe is a worse fate to anticipate: being judged by a monster in the sky who will hold you accountable for everything you did in life (that he apparently knew you'd do when he created you), and send you to burn forever when displeased with your choices, thoughts, and actions.

 

You no longer have to worry about this insane judgment from this fabricated beast of insanity, and I hope you can find some comfort in rejoicing your freedom from threat theology.

[Aggie]

I like this perspective from Mark Twain:

 

“I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit.”

 

 

Otherwise, I like the mantra "this too shall pass."  If things are bad, they always end.  If things are good, I'm reminded to savor them.

[Justin]

 

 

I like this perspective from Mark Twain:

 

“I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit.”

 

I have always loved that quote too. It says so much in so few words.

 

I look at life as a gift. Not a gift given by any god or all mighty power that reigns over all, but a gift of chance. After billions of years of cosmic twirl and tumble and evolution, i have life. Think about the odds of even existing and think about how so much more precious life actually is than any christian or religious worldview could ever be. Life is a blank slate for you and only you to write on. One never knows when they will go, so live a full life and have fun.

[florduh]

We've all experienced some pain and suffering. It usually doesn't result in death.

 

Even religion doesn't promise freedom from suffering (they couldn't get away with that obvious lie) but most do offer some version of magically continuing to live after death. If we can't deal with our mortality, we will find a way to believe in magic.