Fiscal Crisis Is Going To Give Me An Ulcer

[Yrth]

The current "fiscal crisis" is extremely frustrating to read about.

1. The world economy is being used as leverage. That's unnacceptable no matter what side you're on.

2. Despite there being enough votes to open the gov., a small cadre of ideologues have the ability to prevent this vote. That's a wtf moment.

3. The spin on events is so strong it produces verrtigo. GOP is trying to portray themselves as reasonable when they are the folks who are using the world economy as leverage. It is stomach-turning material.

 

I get so mad just reading about it, it's unhealthy.

[Bhim]

Meh. I'm anti-Republican solely due to the Republican party being in support of Christianity. Personally I hope the government stays shut down for a year, that way everyone will have no choice but to vote for non-Christians/nominal Christians (i.e. Democrats) on election day.

[Yrth]

Meh. I'm anti-Republican solely due to the Republican party being in support of Christianity. Personally I hope the government stays shut down for a year, that way everyone will have no choice but to vote for non-Christians/nominal Christians (i.e. Democrats) on election day.

That is extremely short-sighted and irresponsible of you and I thank the Euclidean fates that you are not in a position of influence.

[buffettphan]

Meh. I'm anti-Republican solely due to the Republican party being in support of Christianity. Personally I hope the government stays shut down for a year, that way everyone will have no choice but to vote for non-Christians/nominal Christians (i.e. Democrats) on election day.

 

 

My fundie-repub daughter made the same statement to me yesterday.  I told her I could understand her viewpoint if "THE Government" = Congress.  .  But those fucktards are still getting paid, while the everyday people (that we all rely upon for services) are getting screwed.  Of course, being the fundie-repub she is, she was ignorant of that particular fact.    I told her she should think about what will happen to the workers (and their families) who are like most of us -- if they can't pay their mortgage, utilities, buy food, etc. because Congress is holding their jobs hostage.  

 

I also asked her where her sense of empathy was because I know damn well she was raised to have one.

[RankStranger]

Can't sell aircraft until this manufactured crisis is resolved. There's nobody at the FAA to sign off on the necessary paperwork.

 

Funny how they tell us they're against the ACA because it'll be bad for the economy. And then they threaten to royally fuck up the economy if they don't get their way. Seems more than a little inconsistent to me.

[Yrth]

I mean even if they were right about the ACA, that still wouldn't justify these tactics. But yeah certainly ironic.

 

[Yrth]

 

This is negotiation 101.  You have what somebody wants.  You make them come up to the highest price you can get them to, THEN you close the deal.  It's all fair. 

 

 

I keep seeing uninformed friends on social media who assume that this is a normal bargaining stand-off. It is not. This is unprecedented. You do not use the world economy as leverage because you are presumably invested in a stable world economy and you are a responsible person.

 

It's the opposite of fair or normal or justifiable. It's like "bargaining" with a suicide bomber. This is political terrorism and it's infuriating.

[florduh]

 It's all fair. 

 

Come on. Even you know there is nothing fair going on here. Congress exists to run the country, not ruin it. They exist to represent the interests and will of the American people. This crap going on now is an abuse of power, dereliction of duty, extortion, and in the opinion of many, treason. 

[buffettphan]

 

 It's all fair. 

 

Come on. Even you know there is nothing fair going on here. Congress exists to run the country, not ruin it. They exist to represent the interests and will of the American people. This crap going on now is an abuse of power, dereliction of duty, extortion, and in the opinion of many, treason. 

 

 

 

+1000¹⁰⁰⁰

[RankStranger]

 

This is negotiation 101.  You have what somebody wants.  You make them come up to the highest price you can get them to, THEN you close the deal.  It's all fair. 

 

 

I keep seeing uninformed friends on social media who assume that this is a normal bargaining stand-off. It is not. This is unprecedented. You do not use the world economy as leverage because you are presumably invested in a stable world economy and you are a responsible person.

 

It's the opposite of fair or normal or justifiable. It's like "bargaining" with a suicide bomber. This is political terrorism and it's infuriating.

 

 

Yep.  Economic terrorism.

[RankStranger]

 

 

 

This is negotiation 101.  You have what somebody wants.  You make them come up to the highest price you can get them to, THEN you close the deal.  It's all fair. 

 

 

I keep seeing uninformed friends on social media who assume that this is a normal bargaining stand-off. It is not. This is unprecedented. You do not use the world economy as leverage because you are presumably invested in a stable world economy and you are a responsible person.

 

It's the opposite of fair or normal or justifiable. It's like "bargaining" with a suicide bomber. This is political terrorism and it's infuriating.

 

 

Yep.  Economic terrorism.

 

 

If they're doing their job, the opposition will call them terrorists, it is music to my ears.  We did the same thing in Nashville back in years 1999 to 2002. If the people of their district tell them how to vote and do what they are doing, they are representing their district and the rest of the Congress be damned. 

 

 

"Do what we want or we'll fuck up the economy."  That's economic terrorism plain and simple.

 

It doesn't surprise me as they've done it before and they'll do it again.  And it conclusively proves that they don't give a rats ass about the economy or jobs.  All they care about is ideology and their safely gerrymandered jobs (not safe from Teapublican primary challenes though).

 

So far the markets haven't really reacted at all as far as I can tell- which tells me that they're reasonably sure this is just showmanship.  I hope they're right.  And really the longer this goes on, the worse it's going to be for the Republicans in 2014 (those not in safely gerrymandered districts, that is).  But frankly I'd rather have economic stability than score political points.  Obviously your priorities are the opposite.

[Yrth]

 

 

 

 

 

This is negotiation 101.  You have what somebody wants.  You make them come up to the highest price you can get them to, THEN you close the deal.  It's all fair. 

 

 

I keep seeing uninformed friends on social media who assume that this is a normal bargaining stand-off. It is not. This is unprecedented. You do not use the world economy as leverage because you are presumably invested in a stable world economy and you are a responsible person.

 

It's the opposite of fair or normal or justifiable. It's like "bargaining" with a suicide bomber. This is political terrorism and it's infuriating.

 

 

Yep.  Economic terrorism.

 

 

If they're doing their job, the opposition will call them terrorists, it is music to my ears.  We did the same thing in Nashville back in years 1999 to 2002. If the people of their district tell them how to vote and do what they are doing, they are representing their district and the rest of the Congress be damned. 

 

 

"Do what we want or we'll fuck up the economy."  That's economic terrorism plain and simple.

 

It doesn't surprise me as they've done it before and they'll do it again.  And it conclusively proves that they don't give a rats ass about the economy or jobs.  All they care about is ideology and their safely gerrymandered jobs (not safe from Teapublican primary challenes though).

 

So far the markets haven't really reacted at all as far as I can tell- which tells me that they're reasonably sure this is just showmanship.  I hope they're right.  And really the longer this goes on, the worse it's going to be for the Republicans in 2014 (those not in safely gerrymandered districts, that is).  But frankly I'd rather have economic stability than score political points.  Obviously your priorities are the opposite.

 

 

 

Read the Constitution.  What is the job of members of the House of Representatives?  You will find that it is to represent the voters of the district he/she came from.  THEY are the boss, NOT the Speaker, NOT the president, but the VOTERS of the district.  

 

 

If you want to blow up Nashville, go ahead. But we are talking about the world economy here. The stakes are higher. To reiterate, this is unprecedented. This is not their job. 

 

Also, once again, the House has enough votes to open the government. The kamikaze caucus won't allow the issue to be put to a vote.

[REBOOT]

This is negotiation 101.  You have what somebody wants.  You make them come up to the highest price you can get them to, THEN you close the deal.  It's all fair. 

 

I beg to differ. This is extortion, ACA is a law and to repeal it you have to be elected with a mandate to repeal it. (Hint: Mitt Romney lost)

 

The republicans are out of power except for that majority in the house. Using the house to hijack a presidency in this way is unheard of and also creates a precedent that destroys the unwritten contract that this kind of interference would not be tolerated.

 

If it wasn't for that infestation of uncompromising 'religious right' 'god will prevail' nutjobs this shutdown would never have happened

[Yrth]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is negotiation 101.  You have what somebody wants.  You make them come up to the highest price you can get them to, THEN you close the deal.  It's all fair. 

 

 

I keep seeing uninformed friends on social media who assume that this is a normal bargaining stand-off. It is not. This is unprecedented. You do not use the world economy as leverage because you are presumably invested in a stable world economy and you are a responsible person.

 

It's the opposite of fair or normal or justifiable. It's like "bargaining" with a suicide bomber. This is political terrorism and it's infuriating.

 

 

Yep.  Economic terrorism.

 

 

If they're doing their job, the opposition will call them terrorists, it is music to my ears.  We did the same thing in Nashville back in years 1999 to 2002. If the people of their district tell them how to vote and do what they are doing, they are representing their district and the rest of the Congress be damned. 

 

 

"Do what we want or we'll fuck up the economy."  That's economic terrorism plain and simple.

 

It doesn't surprise me as they've done it before and they'll do it again.  And it conclusively proves that they don't give a rats ass about the economy or jobs.  All they care about is ideology and their safely gerrymandered jobs (not safe from Teapublican primary challenes though).

 

So far the markets haven't really reacted at all as far as I can tell- which tells me that they're reasonably sure this is just showmanship.  I hope they're right.  And really the longer this goes on, the worse it's going to be for the Republicans in 2014 (those not in safely gerrymandered districts, that is).  But frankly I'd rather have economic stability than score political points.  Obviously your priorities are the opposite.

 

 

 

Read the Constitution.  What is the job of members of the House of Representatives?  You will find that it is to represent the voters of the district he/she came from.  THEY are the boss, NOT the Speaker, NOT the president, but the VOTERS of the district.  

 

 

If you want to blow up Nashville, go ahead. But we are talking about the world economy here. The stakes are higher. To reiterate, this is unprecedented. This is not their job. 

 

Also, once again, the House has enough votes to open the government. The kamikaze caucus won't allow the issue to be put to a vote.

 

 

In Nashville, the speaker tried to put the income tax up for a vote and held the vote open for two hours while we had over 17,000 people in front of the state capitol. We had people literally pouring so many calls that it caused electrical shorts in the switchboard.  The elected officials did what they were told.  In this case, Republicans are the ones who are he majority in the House.  The voters have poured calls into their offices telling them to do this.  They are doing what their constituents want.  That is their right and their prerogative.  If the tables had been turned and let's say the Senate and White House was in GOP control and they were going to pass something say....Eliminate the Department of Education or Social Security, do you think the Democrats would do any different?  I don't think so. 

 

Seriously? Of course they would. They HAVE! And, actually, the majority of Americans (and half of the republicans) disapprove of this tactic. So they are NOT doing what their constituents want. 

[mwc]

     Because we don't have a direct democracy.  We don't govern based on individual polling.  And we don't pick and choose which form of government we do have based on each issue and whether we personally like it or not.

 

          mwc

[Yrth]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is negotiation 101.  You have what somebody wants.  You make them come up to the highest price you can get them to, THEN you close the deal.  It's all fair. 

 

 

I keep seeing uninformed friends on social media who assume that this is a normal bargaining stand-off. It is not. This is unprecedented. You do not use the world economy as leverage because you are presumably invested in a stable world economy and you are a responsible person.

 

It's the opposite of fair or normal or justifiable. It's like "bargaining" with a suicide bomber. This is political terrorism and it's infuriating.

 

 

Yep.  Economic terrorism.

 

 

If they're doing their job, the opposition will call them terrorists, it is music to my ears.  We did the same thing in Nashville back in years 1999 to 2002. If the people of their district tell them how to vote and do what they are doing, they are representing their district and the rest of the Congress be damned. 

 

 

"Do what we want or we'll fuck up the economy."  That's economic terrorism plain and simple.

 

It doesn't surprise me as they've done it before and they'll do it again.  And it conclusively proves that they don't give a rats ass about the economy or jobs.  All they care about is ideology and their safely gerrymandered jobs (not safe from Teapublican primary challenes though).

 

So far the markets haven't really reacted at all as far as I can tell- which tells me that they're reasonably sure this is just showmanship.  I hope they're right.  And really the longer this goes on, the worse it's going to be for the Republicans in 2014 (those not in safely gerrymandered districts, that is).  But frankly I'd rather have economic stability than score political points.  Obviously your priorities are the opposite.

 

 

 

Read the Constitution.  What is the job of members of the House of Representatives?  You will find that it is to represent the voters of the district he/she came from.  THEY are the boss, NOT the Speaker, NOT the president, but the VOTERS of the district.  

 

 

If you want to blow up Nashville, go ahead. But we are talking about the world economy here. The stakes are higher. To reiterate, this is unprecedented. This is not their job. 

 

Also, once again, the House has enough votes to open the government. The kamikaze caucus won't allow the issue to be put to a vote.

 

 

In Nashville, the speaker tried to put the income tax up for a vote and held the vote open for two hours while we had over 17,000 people in front of the state capitol. We had people literally pouring so many calls that it caused electrical shorts in the switchboard.  The elected officials did what they were told.  In this case, Republicans are the ones who are he majority in the House.  The voters have poured calls into their offices telling them to do this.  They are doing what their constituents want.  That is their right and their prerogative.  If the tables had been turned and let's say the Senate and White House was in GOP control and they were going to pass something say....Eliminate the Department of Education or Social Security, do you think the Democrats would do any different?  I don't think so. 

 

Seriously? Of course they would. They HAVE! And, actually, the majority of Americans (and half of the republicans) disapprove of this tactic. So they are NOT doing what their constituents want. 

 

 

Why don't they poll each individual district?  They are just doing random samples across the nation.  Not drilling down far enough.  This is good puff poll. 

 

The results are also reflected by the dissension among republican representatives. Oh and a bunch of military businesses have just furloughed thousands of employees, prepare for more dissension. catastrophic hot mess by the kamikaze caucus.

[RankStranger]

 

The results are also reflected by the dissension among republican representatives. Oh and a bunch of military businesses have just furloughed thousands of employees, prepare for more dissension. catastrophic hot mess by the kamikaze caucus.

 

 

 

 

FWIW...I'm not GOP...I am Libertarian FUCK BOTH PARTIES.  If the whole thing crashes and burns we get to start over .....BURN BABY BURN!

 

 

Right-wingers hate America.

[centauri]

Economic terrorism has been practiced by the Federal Reserve, Wall Street, and mega-banks for years.

[mwc]

We had people literally pouring so many calls that it caused electrical shorts in the switchboard. 

 

     Where was this?  The bridge of the Enterprise?  Poor Uhura.

 

          mwc

[R. S. Martin]

 

The results are also reflected by the dissension among republican representatives. Oh and a bunch of military businesses have just furloughed thousands of employees, prepare for more dissension. catastrophic hot mess by the kamikaze caucus.

 

 

 

 

FWIW...I'm not GOP...I am Libertarian FUCK BOTH PARTIES.  If the whole thing crashes and burns we get to start over .....BURN BABY BURN!

 

 

I'm not sure what to say except there's no shooting civil war. Yet.

 

I know, I'm not American but don't think for a single second that it doesn't concern Canadians what happens in the American White House. Sometimes I think Americans at least get to vote. We over here can only hope the elephant doesn't roll on us while we sleep in the same bed.

 

At the moment, we in my hometown are watching yet another American company take over one of our home-grown products. For thousands of workers around the world, the name of the boss changes from Canadian to American. Along with the changeover go all the legal and economic implications. None of us get to vote in the American elections but all of us are impacted by this stand-off. I think no matter what our nationality, our opinion has a place in a discussion like this.

 

If, as has happened in the past, a discussion on American politics ends just because I as a non-American posted in it, the rest of us are liable to conclude that we're right in thinking that Americans are arrogant and self-important, ignorant of the rest of the world and their own place in it. That's basically what everybody around me has been saying for years but I'd like to think exC members are somewhat more intelligent than the average American.

[R. S. Martin]

What I don't get is that it's taken Americans three whole days to start a discussion on here about this. Surely it didn't appear in our newspapers--the slowest form of news these days--before you knew about it. That's how I found out. And I'm a day behind reading. I expected to see a lively discussion on here. When I didn't see one, I didn't dare start one myself, given the attitude I've encountered in the past when I tried to discuss political issues on here. Maybe there's one in another section that I just didn't see?...

 

I'm looking at the title again. "Fiscal failure." That's a new term, "Government shut-down" is what they're calling it here. The American government has shut down. Last time it happened was in 1996. Seems the American government is in the habit of shutting down. That should be--and is, I understand--illegal.

[RaLeah]

The Republicans pulled this before, and I knew they'd pull it again. I've been agitated all summer about it. 

 

Here's what it's like: 

 

A man pulls a gun on his wife, their 5 year old son, and their infant. "I'm holding all of you hostage," he says, "and unless you do everything I say, I'm going to shoot our 5-year-old." 

 

"But you love him too," his puzzled wife says. "Why would you shoot him?" 

 

"You're making me do it," the man says. "Because the fact is, we can't afford a newborn, and I don't want to fund him."

 

"But he's already here," his wife protests. "I know you wanted me to get an abortion, but he's here now. I can't just not feed him. He's already here." 

 

"Too bad," her husband says. "Meanwhile, until I decide whether or not to shoot our 5-year-old, you can't make him any food." 

 

"You don't mean that," his wife tries again. "You aren't thinking clearly. Just put the gun down and take back those things you said, and we can talk."

 

"I'm sorry, but it's just not affordable right now to have a baby," the man says. "You aren't even willing to negotiate."

 

"Not while you're threatening to destroy our family, I'm not," the wife replies. "Put the gun down. You don't want to destroy our child any more than I do. You've protected him and promised to look after him. You've said you love him. Why are you doing this?"

 

The man starts to get angry his wife isn't agreeing to his demands, and he pokes the gun at his son. "Desperate times call for desperate measures! I can't put the gun away now, not until I get what I want! I told my friends I was going to do this, and they all egged me on and said it was a great idea, and I can't tell them it didn't work. I'd be a laughingstock!"

 

The wife mulls this over. "So you care more about what other people think of you than you do about your own family and children? You'd rather lose everything and keep face than admit you're wrong and just calm down, put the gun away, and talk to me?" 

 

"Well... I have to get SOMETHING out of this. I'm not even sure what, but it has to be SOMETHING. I took this risk and put my reputation on the line after all." 

[Yrth]

What I don't get is that it's taken Americans three whole days to start a discussion on here about this. Surely it didn't appear in our newspapers--the slowest form of news these days--before you knew about it. That's how I found out. And I'm a day behind reading. I expected to see a lively discussion on here. When I didn't see one, I didn't dare start one myself, given the attitude I've encountered in the past when I tried to discuss political issues on here. Maybe there's one in another section that I just didn't see?...

 

I'm looking at the title again. "Fiscal failure." That's a new term, "Government shut-down" is what they're calling it here. The American government has shut down. Last time it happened was in 1996. Seems the American government is in the habit of shutting down. That should be--and is, I understand--illegal.

I'm rarely on this website. I posted about this because it has literally been upsetting me to read about and the rant section here is cathartic. Was hoping for some relief in some form. Also, there was another thread on the subject, iirc.

 

It's not "illegal" to shut down the government, it's just what happens when congress fails to fund it.

[RaLeah]

Why not? I'll keep going. 

 

"But your friends are idiots," the wife points out. "They'll get over it. They're misogynistic assholes, and they'll always side with you again, because you're one of guys and I'm not. They aren't even paying attention right now -- they're home watching reality TV and sports."

 

"Most of them, sure," the guy agrees. "But I have this one guy who's not like them. He's the one who always buys me drinks and looks out for me. He's really expecting me to show some balls here. If I don't... he'll find some other guy to buy drinks, and then I'm out."

 

"Well, so what?" the wife asks quietly. "Would that be so bad? Maybe your priorities got all screwed up. Ever since that guy started buying your beers he's had an unhealthy influence on you. You were never like this before."

 

"Like what?" he demands.

 

"You talk about him all the time and do him favors. He's just USING you. He isn't your friend."

 

"You don't know how it is!" the man shouts. "I couldn't have gotten where I am today without him!"

 

"And where is that?" the wife asks sadly. "Here you are, pointing a gun at everyone, and you've lost every kind thing about you that you once had. We used to be able to talk. We used to be able to get things done. Now, I have to figure out how to get things done on my own, for our kids, for the family. I wish we could just find a way to be respectful to each other again."

 

"NO way," the guy says. "I'm cutting all of you off until I get my way, and I don't even care if we ALL go down together! That'll teach you!" 

 

"And THEN what?" his wife asks. "And THEN what??"

[Yrth]

And...the Democrats don't do equally bad?  Hey, I have seen, on the state level, where a Democrat speaker of the House had a bill that would be a tough vote.  He put it up for a vote and it was 5 votes short.  He held the vote open for 2 hours and used every bit of extortion and threats to marginal members of both parties to try to get the bill passed.  Thankfully it did not pass and he got his butt handed to him.  But to say the Republicans are bad is the pot calling the kettle black.

Correct, they do not. Once again, the world economy is being used as leverage. Why? Because the GOP has no other means of affecting policy after losing the presidential election and every other effort made to impede the ACA. And, because they are terrified that the ACA will actually succeed, they aren't willing to wait until the next election. They'd risk the world economy for short term political gain. Kamikaze caucus.

 

I thought you bowed out by disavowing your support for the GOP?