Christian Guilt

[wanderinstar]

I was wondering what kind of guilt trips you all labored under as christians.

 

For me the big one was believing that god had saved me from hell, rescued me from a life of sin and 'healed' me from the years of sexual abuse as a child. The fact that he just sat there and watched the abuse, didn't really heal me (therapy and meds are making big inroads into that, finally) and never actually rescued me was something I could not (or would not) see as a christian. Instead I believed something i desperately needed then felt deeply guilty all the time as I was not worth of such 'love' and 'grace' (vomit). You know aftre all god had supposedly done for me I should be jumping up and down with gratitude all my life, and if I wasn't up came the guilt. That I should be thankful I am still breathing, even though my life was such hell I often wanted to die. 

 

It is so freeing not to feel guilty all the time, to accept myself with all my flaws and not believe things that are so clearly untrue so i have to live in cognitive dissonance all my life. 

[RaLeah]

I am SO sad to read that you went through all of that. I'm glad you're out! I hope you continue to heal and move forward. 

 

Guilt trips -- anything where you felt any sexual or romantic desire. Touching, kissing, making out... all if it is wrong, according to them, unless you are married. (Nevermind that you wouldn't get married if you didn't feel any sexual desire--aka "chemistry"--with a person.)

 

I knew a girl in my brief Christian college experience who married a guy she didn't feel any sexual attraction for. She avoided guys she felt that with, because she wanted to flee from temptation. So she had a guy friend who was "safe" because she didn't feel anything like that with him. He became close to her, then guilted her into dating him. Afterwards, she sighed, "I just don't FEEL anything romantic towards him." 

 

I switched colleges, but stayed in (very loose) touch with her, and years later, she's announcing their engagement, then their wedding. No, I don't think her feelings for him changed. I think she became a dutiful wife to a good man she wasn't attracted to. 

 

I am happy every day I didn't go down that path, but I came scarily close to it. I got engaged when I was 20-ish to someone I wasn't in love with. I liked him as a close friend, and he kept saying it was "God's will" for us to get married. "Then why hasn't God told ME?" I asked him. "I think you'll grow to love me that way in time," he said. 

 

And he WAS a good friend to me during my time of doubt and depression, and I felt guilty to reject him romantically. He caught me in a moment of weakness (a bad depressing day) and proposed with a ring, even though I told him I needed more time and not to do that yet. He pushed, and I was too tired to say no. It had to be the least romantic proposal of all time. 

 

And then I woke up and shook it all off. I broke the engagement off, told him I was sorry, but I couldn't. He wanted to be a youth pastor and I wanted to be an atheist. Guilt just wasn't going to cut it as a motivator in my life ever again. I told him we were finished, and I really didn't even want to be friends with him anymore. (I felt he took advantage of my vulnerable state, and I didn't trust him anymore. I didn't say that, but I probably should have.)

 

So I determined to stay single until I had everything figured out for myself first. And I did. And then I met my now husband and we've been together 6 years, and yesterday was our 3rd wedding anniversary. We're crazy about each other. 

 

I'm glad I didn't let the guilt push me into a poor decision that would have messed up my life. 

[midniterider]

I was wondering what kind of guilt trips you all labored under as christians.

 

For me the big one was believing that god had saved me from hell, rescued me from a life of sin and 'healed' me from the years of sexual abuse as a child. The fact that he just sat there and watched the abuse, didn't really heal me (therapy and meds are making big inroads into that, finally) and never actually rescued me was something I could not (or would not) see as a christian. Instead I believed something i desperately needed then felt deeply guilty all the time as I was not worth of such 'love' and 'grace' (vomit). You know aftre all god had supposedly done for me I should be jumping up and down with gratitude all my life, and if I wasn't up came the guilt. That I should be thankful I am still breathing, even though my life was such hell I often wanted to die. 

 

It is so freeing not to feel guilty all the time, to accept myself with all my flaws and not believe things that are so clearly untrue so i have to live in cognitive dissonance all my life. 

 

Guilt from lust. Fear that I was sinning because of lust. One day I told God I would continue lusting and he would have to just deal with it. This was the final disconnect from Christianity for me.

[Idontevenknow99]

 

 

I am happy every day I didn't go down that path, but I came scarily close to it. I got engaged when I was 20-ish to someone I wasn't in love with. I liked him as a close friend, and he kept saying it was "God's will" for us to get married. "Then why hasn't God told ME?" I asked him. "I think you'll grow to love me that way in time," he said. 

 

And he WAS a good friend to me during my time of doubt and depression, and I felt guilty to reject him romantically. He caught me in a moment of weakness (a bad depressing day) and proposed with a ring, even though I told him I needed more time and not to do that yet. He pushed, and I was too tired to say no. It had to be the least romantic proposal of all time. 

 

 

Well, yeah, "It's God's will for us to get married" isn't the most romantic line in itself. Over the summer, I came across an interesting article that talks about Christian marriage.

 

The author of the article was Christian and growing up, she would pray to God for the "perfect husband". She eventually went to her pastor or counselor or whomever it was that gave her this brilliant piece of advice, that it is not "God's will" for people to get married. Rather, it is supposedly God's will that we follow that example of Jesus and just that, and if people want to get married, they depend on their best judgment of what they are looking for in their relationship.

 

 As a questioning Christian, I need there to be a mental shift in Christianity that moves past the whole "I'm God's child, I deserve everything I ask for" a.k.a. "Word of Faith" gospel that so many believe more than the Bible itself. And the most abused topic in this movement is the "perfect mate" or God's will for who I'm supposed to marry. 

 

I think I've felt some guilt in that aspect. While everyone else is waiting for God to send the perfect boy or girl at their front door, I'm wondering what it's like to go out and meet people, and to exhibit the right way to have a boyfriend or date - which some Christians aren't even allowed to have. It was so nerve racking. 

 

Thanks, RaLeah for your story. 

[rach]

I felt guilty just for being me!  Felt guilty for my natural tomboyishness which was not accepted in our church (I came from the type of church where to be a godly woman meant being a womanly-woman.  June Cleaver type).  Felt guilty or inferior since the bible seems to prefer white, Jewish people and with me not being white or Jewish I didn't feel like I was good enough.  Felt guilty for liking certain books and movies our church said were off limits but that nevertheless really influenced my life. 

[Guest Marty]

I felt guilty just for being me!  Felt guilty for my natural tomboyishness which was not accepted in our church (I came from the type of church where to be a godly woman meant being a womanly-woman.  June Cleaver type).  Felt guilty or inferior since the bible seems to prefer white, Jewish people and with me not being white or Jewish I didn't feel like I was good enough.  Felt guilty for liking certain books and movies our church said were off limits but that nevertheless really influenced my life. 

 

As an adolescent, I was told everything I enjoyed and liked was going to get me sent to hell.  Now, in their defense, this was the mid 80's and what I liked was Metallica, Mötley Crüe, all black clothes, etc etc.  But I still didn't see how music (even the overtly christian bands like Stryper) were evil and going to send me to hell.  I kept hearing these bands were satanic, and I looked hard in the lyrics and imagery for truly satanic ideas and never found any.  What I did find was lyrics about rebellion and true freedom to live your life however you wanted to, and I realized early on that THAT is what is evil about rock music for the church: rock music is essentially about true and complete freedom to be yourself.

[wanderinstar]

I am SO sad to read that you went through all of that. I'm glad you're out! I hope you continue to heal and move forward. 

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

I also recall feeling guilty for not being healed, as I thought my faith was too weak or I had sinned in some way so I was blocking the healing that god has so graciously provided on the cross. What a load of BS! When anything went wrong I always thought it was my fault as it could not be gods fault (being perfect and all) and the devil was supposedly under my feet. I so love being free from the burden of guilt for things that are not at all my fault, and being able to be kid to myself when I make mistakes.

 

There was also always the guilt of not praying enough, reading the bible enough or doing it all wrong even if I did those things...ahh isn't christianity wonderful (NOT!!).

[Margee]

I was always guilty when I felt depressed because I was told it was lack of faith, (even when I was 'patient' waiting for his answer)..... but yet Gawd did not seem to want to step in and fix some of the situations that made me depressed?????

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I had a youth pastor once tell me that it was wrong to feel guilty because jesus had died to free us from our sins and therefore we had nothing more for which to feel guilty.  He said we should be thankful instead.  After that, I always felt guilty about feeling guilty.  What a brain-fuck!

[ExXex]

I'm glad to hear you've got to a point where you're free of that guilt!

 

Hmm I felt guilty for:

- Being a woman. And not feeling that that should make me automatically subservient/motherly

- Having priorities above 'serving God'

- Not praying/reading my bible all the time. Hating books about Christianity because I hated being told how to be a Christian if not from the bible.

- Not being a happy clappy 'praise the lawd!' type because it was just so awkward for me.

- Having a rebellious streak that just seemed part of me. Many other young Christian girls in my church kinda fitted into a 'type' but I didn't quite, my music taste being where that maybe showed the most.

- Wanting to hump my atheist boyfriend's brains out.

- Not being able to forgive certain people for doing certain things to vulnerable people.

- That Jesus died for me. But I remember a sermon where they said Jesus died on the cross because he was taking the punishment that we all deserved for our sins, it all sounded matter of fact and 'on to the next point!' but I was looking around at my friends (who admittedly are lovelier people than most due to being my friends  ) and thinking 'really, this girl next to me deserves to be mocked, humiliated, beaten, and hung up in front of everyone to die slowly then sent to hell?' Really??

[pawn]

I am completely past all religious guilt and it's awesome! I don't even want to remember all of the Christian guilt I had in the past, but it was basically feeling inferior, as I could never measure up to the absolutely perfect measuring stick that Jesus used. You know, all my life I loved Jesus and admired him, but now that I think about it... He was really a perfectionistic asshole! His famous sermon on the mount, is probably the most absurd perfectionistic sermon ever written... Just batshit neurotic stuff in there, it's hard to believe that I used to practically worship that fucked up psychotic sermon....

 

(Not that he ever actually said those things, as the gospel of Matthew was written far after his death by someone who never met Jesus...)

[kolaida]

I'm glad to hear you've got to a point where you're free of that guilt!

 

Hmm I felt guilty for:

- Being a woman. And not feeling that that should make me automatically subservient/motherly

- Having priorities above 'serving God'

- Not praying/reading my bible all the time. Hating books about Christianity because I hated being told how to be a Christian if not from the bible.

- Not being a happy clappy 'praise the lawd!' type because it was just so awkward for me.

- Having a rebellious streak that just seemed part of me. Many other young Christian girls in my church kinda fitted into a 'type' but I didn't quite, my music taste being where that maybe showed the most.

- Wanting to hump my atheist boyfriend's brains out.

- Not being able to forgive certain people for doing certain things to vulnerable people.

- That Jesus died for me. But I remember a sermon where they said Jesus died on the cross because he was taking the punishment that we all deserved for our sins, it all sounded matter of fact and 'on to the next point!' but I was looking around at my friends (who admittedly are lovelier people than most due to being my friends  ) and thinking 'really, this girl next to me deserves to be mocked, humiliated, beaten, and hung up in front of everyone to die slowly then sent to hell?' Really??

 

I think this sums it up pretty well. 

[R. S. Martin]

I don't remember feeling all that guilty but I sure remember feeling rebellious and confused. When the preachers said stuff like "We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" but failed to define sin, I wanted to shout: I didn't and I'm one of "everybody!"  Or "You don't know enough about me to say that kind of thing about me so shut your mouth!" I was in my thirties by then. When I was in my teens I did my best to feel sinful so I could admit my sin and be saved because that was the only way to heaven. I just couldn't bring myself to do the bad stuff that counted for sin, but without sin I couldn't be saved. It was so complicated and confusing. Then they would say we all sinned when I'd spent my life learning how to be good. It was like no one believed the evidence or saw my efforts or believed that I was trying. It was like they're condemning me without trial just because I'm human. It felt very unfair that I had to listen to the condemnation without a word.

 

When I finally, in my forties, concluded that there is no god I was free from all this. I no longer struggle with these questions and have energy for more important things. Oh, the peace that passeth understanding!

[RenaissanceWoman]

When I finally, in my forties, concluded that there is no god I was free from all this. I no longer struggle with these questions and have energy for more important things. Oh, the peace that passeth understanding!

 

Yes! Now that I have fully deconverted, I finally understand what is meant by this peace that passeth understanding. Oh the irony.

[Thought2Much]

Pastors of the churches I went to would always get all weepy, and say, "He died for you. Won't you live for him?"

 

I hated this. I hated feeling like I wasn't doing enough for God or doing enough to get the word out about Jesus, and that so many people I knew would be going to Hell because of that. And then I started to see it differently.

 

I began to realize that according to the story, he was temporarily inconvenienced and has spent the last two thousand years in heaven with his dad doing jack shit down here. As a part of the trinity, he knew full well that he was coming back from the dead, so there was absolutely zero risk on his part. Why am I being made to feel guilty for temporarily inconveniencing Jesus because of sins I can't help but commit as a human?

 

Those were some of my final thoughts on my way out of Christianity. By the time I started thinking that way, I was pretty much out. I decided even if God existed, nothing he did made any sense, and I had no desire to worship him anymore.

[florduh]

You are God's creation, but despite that you are born broken, sinful, rebellious and bound for Hell. Christian religion is the only way to fix the problem, and it's an ongoing process. Every natural thought or desire is wrong. Jesus died for your filthy ass and you must now devote your life to thanking him by avoiding normal human thoughts.

 

They say Catholics are the masters of manipulation using guilt, but they just have it super organized. Any "serious" Christian denomination relies on convincing you of your worthlessness and inability to please your owner without their help. Guilt is the basis of Christianity's hold on millions of unsuspecting people.

 

Insidious, isn't it?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Insidious, isn't it?

 

Never a truer word was spoken.

[amateur]

Masturbating.  That felt weird thinking that god was watching.  So I'd pull the covers over me.  After a year or so, I decided that god had seen it all already (including much worse in this world) and it could no longer be shocking, so the guilt was gone.

 

Thinking that god could hear my thoughts and if I even thought blasphemous thoughts I'd go to hell, which would make me immediately think things like, "FUCK YOU GOD!" and other such thoughts -- like not thinking of a pink elephant, you know, as soon as I'd think that such blasphemy could send me to hell my mind would immediately say something like that.  I pretty much dropped that one after a year or so too because it's just too stupid -- I knew I thought it because I "shouldn't" think it, and as much as god is supposed to be all omni-omni-everything, it's not like he's heard MUCH WORSE out loud and not just in a 14-year-old's head.

 

Sheesh.

[RenaissanceWoman]

Thinking that god could hear my thoughts and if I even thought blasphemous thoughts I'd go to hell...

 

Yes! More insidiousness from that mindfuck of a religion.

[Chikirin]

 

 

 

Guilt from lust. Fear that I was sinning because of lust. One day I told God I would continue lusting and he would have to just deal with it. This was the final disconnect from Christianity for me.

 

Same here.  I was in my 30s and still feeling guilty like I did when I was 14. I could no longer bring myself to apologize to God for it. It was becoming absurd. I still believed in God, but I felt like, "If I go to Hell, I go to Hell." I was actually resigned to going to Hell!

 

Pretty messed up set of beliefs I had. That I still believed in God and Christianity, but had become pretty sure I would go to Hell. After years of mental strain, a part of me just didn't care. This was before I started reading atheist material.  I guess this shows I left Christianity was for emotional reasons, and then later affirmed my decision through intellectual reasons.

[Lilith666]

I am SO sad to read that you went through all of that. I'm glad you're out! I hope you continue to heal and move forward. 

 

Guilt trips -- anything where you felt any sexual or romantic desire. Touching, kissing, making out... all if it is wrong, according to them, unless you are married. (Nevermind that you wouldn't get married if you didn't feel any sexual desire--aka "chemistry"--with a person.)

 

I knew a girl in my brief Christian college experience who married a guy she didn't feel any sexual attraction for. She avoided guys she felt that with, because she wanted to flee from temptation. So she had a guy friend who was "safe" because she didn't feel anything like that with him. He became close to her, then guilted her into dating him. Afterwards, she sighed, "I just don't FEEL anything romantic towards him." 

 

I switched colleges, but stayed in (very loose) touch with her, and years later, she's announcing their engagement, then their wedding. No, I don't think her feelings for him changed. I think she became a dutiful wife to a good man she wasn't attracted to. 

 

I am happy every day I didn't go down that path, but I came scarily close to it. I got engaged when I was 20-ish to someone I wasn't in love with. I liked him as a close friend, and he kept saying it was "God's will" for us to get married. "Then why hasn't God told ME?" I asked him. "I think you'll grow to love me that way in time," he said. 

 

And he WAS a good friend to me during my time of doubt and depression, and I felt guilty to reject him romantically. He caught me in a moment of weakness (a bad depressing day) and proposed with a ring, even though I told him I needed more time and not to do that yet. He pushed, and I was too tired to say no. It had to be the least romantic proposal of all time. 

 

And then I woke up and shook it all off. I broke the engagement off, told him I was sorry, but I couldn't. He wanted to be a youth pastor and I wanted to be an atheist. Guilt just wasn't going to cut it as a motivator in my life ever again. I told him we were finished, and I really didn't even want to be friends with him anymore. (I felt he took advantage of my vulnerable state, and I didn't trust him anymore. I didn't say that, but I probably should have.)

 

So I determined to stay single until I had everything figured out for myself first. And I did. And then I met my now husband and we've been together 6 years, and yesterday was our 3rd wedding anniversary. We're crazy about each other. 

 

I'm glad I didn't let the guilt push me into a poor decision that would have messed up my life.

Jesus H. Christ, what a creep. He actually told you he had a special message from god that you were meant to marry him? That's....man....that is a weird way to stalk someone. I am so glad you got out of that.

[Lilith666]

Let's see....guilt. There was some.

-I thought that worshipping gaaawwwddd for eternity, with nothing to do but "PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME!!!" sounded boring

-I didn't want to marry a "spiritual leader" and be a good little woman, according to Ephesians 5 and others

-I resented men (at the time) for being god's so-called appointed authority

-I did not have an all-consuming feeling of love for Jesus, despite having been converted at four years old and told that he died for my sins

-No one talked back to me when I prayed--that must be a sign of not caring enough or being spiritually weak

-Church was boring--also a sign of spiritual weakness

-The pastor loved to preach about "putting god on the back burner," which reinforced the guilt

-Wanting to "experiment." Boys were bad enough, but I felt horrible about looking at girls, particularly since I was pretty sure my Xian girl friends didn't have those feelings and if they knew, they would probably think I was a pervert and checking them out

-Being curious about "dirty" books I found and peeking at them when no one was looking

[Lilith666]

Pastors of the churches I went to would always get all weepy, and say, "He died for you. Won't you live for him?"

 

I hated this. I hated feeling like I wasn't doing enough for God or doing enough to get the word out about Jesus, and that so many people I knew would be going to Hell because of that.

 

Exactly. That slogan....ugh. Horrible. They loved to spew that garbage.

[Lilith666]

Masturbating.  That felt weird thinking that god was watching.  So I'd pull the covers over me.  After a year or so, I decided that god had seen it all already (including much worse in this world) and it could no longer be shocking, so the guilt was gone.

 

Thinking that god could hear my thoughts and if I even thought blasphemous thoughts I'd go to hell, which would make me immediately think things like, "FUCK YOU GOD!" and other such thoughts -- like not thinking of a pink elephant, you know, as soon as I'd think that such blasphemy could send me to hell my mind would immediately say something like that.  I pretty much dropped that one after a year or so too because it's just too stupid -- I knew I thought it because I "shouldn't" think it, and as much as god is supposed to be all omni-omni-everything, it's not like he's heard MUCH WORSE out loud and not just in a 14-year-old's head.

 

Sheesh.

YES. Truth. Sex is so much better without the feeling that your holy daddy is staring at you the whole time. I used to imagine him watching (married Christian) couples having sex and saying, "Awwww, look how cute they are together! Isn't my creation wonderful!!!" *shudder*

 

Sorry about all the posts. I'm on my iPod.

[wanderinstar]

 

Masturbating.  That felt weird thinking that god was watching.  So I'd pull the covers over me.  After a year or so, I decided that god had seen it all already (including much worse in this world) and it could no longer be shocking, so the guilt was gone.Thinking that god could hear my thoughts and if I even thought blasphemous thoughts I'd go to hell, which would make me immediately think things like, "FUCK YOU GOD!" and other such thoughts -- like not thinking of a pink elephant, you know, as soon as I'd think that such blasphemy could send me to hell my mind would immediately say something like that.  I pretty much dropped that one after a year or so too because it's just too stupid -- I knew I thought it because I "shouldn't" think it, and as much as god is supposed to be all omni-omni-everything, it's not like he's heard MUCH WORSE out loud and not just in a 14-year-old's head.Sheesh.

YES. Truth. Sex is so much better without the feeling that your holy daddy is staring at you the whole time. I used to imagine him watching (married Christian) couples having sex and saying, "Awwww, look how cute they are together! Isn't my creation wonderful!!!" *shudder*Sorry about all the posts. I'm on my iPod.

 

One really disturbing teaching I heard was that the holy spirit was in on the sex,like a holy threesome or something. Christian sex was supposed to be a spiritual experience. Sexcan be spiritual in a heathy way but not with an almighty god watching or being in bed with you...scary.