Christian: Convert me if you think you can.

[SkepticOfBible]

Hey Ruth. I want to let you know that I'm here too. It's jc from AY. And hi to everone on this board. I too am a Christian but not a new one. I've been a christian all my life. 21 years. So ya I'm young in age but not in the Lord. I'm not here to condemn, or judge, but to learn and encourage.

I won't at this time to to convince anyone to come back to the Lord. That is your decision and yours alone. But hopefully I will have the chance to civilly speak what Jesus Christ has done for me personally.

 

Well then, welcome to the board, and do stick around. And please don't runaway when ask you questions about your "lord Jesus Christ"

[Asimov]

but to learn and encourage.

 

Encourage what?

 

I won't at this time to to convince anyone to come back to the Lord. That is your decision and yours alone. But hopefully I will have the chance to civilly speak what Jesus Christ has done for me personally.

 

Irrelevant, your own professed dealings with an imaginary person doesn't mean that it exists.

 

Nobody is going to come back to the Lord until you or Jesus ante up and provide actual argumentation.

[Vigile]

Hey Ruth. I want to let you know that I'm here too. It's jc from AY. And hi to everone on this board. I too am a Christian but not a new one. I've been a christian all my life. 21 years. So ya I'm young in age but not in the Lord. I'm not here to condemn, or judge, but to learn and encourage.

I won't at this time to to convince anyone to come back to the Lord. That is your decision and yours alone. But hopefully I will have the chance to civilly speak what Jesus Christ has done for me personally.

 

The skeptic in me makes me think that you are also here to keep tabs on Ruth so that she doesn't get too far from the flock.

 

I was a christian all my life to. In fact I made it to 25 years before I was exposed to enough reason to throw off the shackles of that awful cult. But if you stick around here for a while the process might be accelerated a bit.

[Vixentrox]

 

Hey Ruth. I want to let you know that I'm here too. It's jc from AY. And hi to everone on this board. I too am a Christian but not a new one. I've been a christian all my life. 21 years. So ya I'm young in age but not in the Lord. I'm not here to condemn, or judge, but to learn and encourage.

I won't at this time to to convince anyone to come back to the Lord. That is your decision and yours alone. But hopefully I will have the chance to civilly speak what Jesus Christ has done for me personally.

 

Can't the Holy Spirit look after Ruth on his own? Christian all your life, so, brainwashed into beliving it since you were little like so many. It's admirable that you say your here to learn. Be careful though, learn too much and a free thought might enter your head and start a chain reaction that leads you to stop beliving in your imaginary friend.

[Sadie]

Hmm you guys don't want judged yet already there is judgement. I'm not here to watch over Ruth. I care for my sister but she is wise and I trust her. I came her to see for myself what you guys think. And I will stick around. I'm not afraid to stand for Christ or be questioned. And I will say from whoever said the free thought comment, you don't know my thoughts, or what I think, or where I've been, just like I don't know yours so hold the judgement.

[Jose]

What you're trying to say...

 

 

 

What I hear...

 

 

[Asimov]

Hmm you guys don't want judged yet already there is judgement. I'm not here to watch over Ruth. I care for my sister but she is wise and I trust her. I came her to see for myself what you guys think. And I will stick around. I'm not afraid to stand for Christ or be questioned. And I will say from whoever said the free thought comment, you don't know my thoughts, or what I think, or where I've been, just like I don't know yours so hold the judgement.

 

Where did I say I don't want to be judged? I'll pass judgement and hold judgement as I view appropriate.

 

As for questioning you, those type of apologetics never work. I'm not going to question you on your God, because he doesn't exist. YOU need to provide adequate argumentation for your God existing.

[Ruth]

Hmm you guys don't want judged yet already there is judgement. I'm not here to watch over Ruth. I care for my sister but she is wise and I trust her. I came her to see for myself what you guys think. And I will stick around. I'm not afraid to stand for Christ or be questioned. And I will say from whoever said the free thought comment, you don't know my thoughts, or what I think, or where I've been, just like I don't know yours so hold the judgement.

 

I'm very glad to have your company here, Sadie.

[Asimov]

Uh-oh guys...we're about to be double-teamed here by the Desperate Duo.

[Jose]

I'm quaking, sir.

 

Since I'm just a Christian in rebellion* and not really an Ex-Christian, Real Christians™ scare the hell out of me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*once saved, always saved doctrine

[Antlerman]

I'm not afraid to stand for Christ or be questioned. And I will say from whoever said the free thought comment, you don't know my thoughts, or what I think, or where I've been, just like I don't know yours so hold the judgement.

Greetings Sadie. I don't think what Vitentrox was saying about freethought was to impugn your intelligence. "Freethought" or free thinking is a term that means something fairly specifc: refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/freethought I believe what he was musing is that Freethought is prolific around these parts and that can lead someone away from a closed system of doctrines and teachings.

 

I'm curious to ask you if you have ever disbelieved anything you grew up being exposed to: to the point of not believing the Bible was 100% factual in everything it says: that Jesus really turned water to wine, walked on water, rose from death alive, raised dead people, etc? Or that Christianity alone held the market on absolute truth? I'm not asking about "not living for God" in a period of emotional rebellion, but I mean bonfide, deep-seated doubt or disbelief?

 

I was never raised a church-going Christian being taught doctrines, etc, but did have standard cultural exposure to Christianity as many do with parents who went to church twice a year when I was a kid, etc. I'm just curious how you feel about all the other ways of thinking there are out there, and how far into that you may have explored on a personal quest for knowledge outside what you were taught? Forgive my probing, but for some reason you have peaked my curiousity.

[Vixentrox]

Greetings Sadie. I don't think what Vitentrox was saying about freethought was to impugn your intelligence. "Freethought" or free thinking is a term that means something fairly specifc: refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/freethought I believe what he was musing is that Freethought is prolific around these parts and that can lead someone away from a closed system of doctrines and teachings.

Yes, that's what I meant, alluding to free thinking without the brainwashing. A moment of clarity amongst the religious lies.

[Sadie]

I'm not afraid to stand for Christ or be questioned. And I will say from whoever said the free thought comment, you don't know my thoughts, or what I think, or where I've been, just like I don't know yours so hold the judgement.

Greetings Sadie. I don't think what Vitentrox was saying about freethought was to impugn your intelligence. "Freethought" or free thinking is a term that means something fairly specifc: refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/freethought I believe what he was musing is that Freethought is prolific around these parts and that can lead someone away from a closed system of doctrines and teachings.

 

I'm curious to ask you if you have ever disbelieved anything you grew up being exposed to: to the point of not believing the Bible was 100% factual in everything it says: that Jesus really turned water to wine, walked on water, rose from death alive, raised dead people, etc? Or that Christianity alone held the market on absolute truth? I'm not asking about "not living for God" in a period of emotional rebellion, but I mean bonfide, deep-seated doubt or disbelief?

 

I was never raised a church-going Christian being taught doctrines, etc, but did have standard cultural exposure to Christianity as many do with parents who went to church twice a year when I was a kid, etc. I'm just curious how you feel about all the other ways of thinking there are out there, and how far into that you may have explored on a personal quest for knowledge outside what you were taught? Forgive my probing, but for some reason you have peaked my curiousity.

 

Hey I don't mind the questions. You can ask anything. I don't know if I've ever been through an emotional rebellion so to speak. There was a point in my life that I just didn't "believe" I really had no reason to doubt what I was being taught I just didn't believe. I really didn't care about God or if there was a God or Christ or anything. I studied other religions. I still do. I love learning what others religions believe and find that many other religions have their good points and I learn from them. I was into witchcraft for a while. Not heavy but I dabbed in it. Not a pleasant experience. I went like this through several teenage years. I still went to church because I had no choice but I sought out other ways. Hinduis, atheism, buddhism, etc. there were many. Does that answer your question. Sorry if not I'm kinda tired. Ask me anything anytime.

[Clearview]

Well, Ruth does have the cutest lambie avatar I've ever seen.

 

 

Welcome, Ruth & Sadie. Have fun.

[Antlerman]

Hey I don't mind the questions. You can ask anything. I don't know if I've ever been through an emotional rebellion so to speak. There was a point in my life that I just didn't "believe" I really had no reason to doubt what I was being taught I just didn't believe. I really didn't care about God or if there was a God or Christ or anything. I studied other religions. I still do. I love learning what others religions believe and find that many other religions have their good points and I learn from them. I was into witchcraft for a while. Not heavy but I dabbed in it. Not a pleasant experience. I went like this through several teenage years. I still went to church because I had no choice but I sought out other ways. Hinduis, atheism, buddhism, etc. there were many. Does that answer your question. Sorry if not I'm kinda tired. Ask me anything anytime.

When you say you didn't believe, I think in the context you are saying you simply didn't care either way about it. It didn't much matter. I would make the distinction from that and outright disbelief.

 

So you understand I'm not trying to rope you into any corner to tear at your views. I'm simply seeking to hear and understand some things from what perspective you can offer. I may ask some questions that may challenge you, but I'm not trying to deconvert you, just to add some insights into my understandings.

 

When you say you see value in other religions, are you saying you see Christianity as one among equals, or do now feel Christianity is the only way to real truth? Also, one big question I want to ask from your response, when you say sought other ways and mentioned atheism, please explain that to me - an atheist, what you mean? Did you look at the teachings of Christianity and conclude them unbelievable?

 

Then finally what made you come back to Christianity after dabbling in other belief systems, like hinduism, etc (atheism excluded since it's not a religion)?

 

Thanks for your candor,

 

Anterman

 

P.S. I agree. Ruth's lamb avatar is extreemly cool! BTW, Ruth your welcome to join in if you wish.

[Sadie]

Hey I don't mind the questions. You can ask anything. I don't know if I've ever been through an emotional rebellion so to speak. There was a point in my life that I just didn't "believe" I really had no reason to doubt what I was being taught I just didn't believe. I really didn't care about God or if there was a God or Christ or anything. I studied other religions. I still do. I love learning what others religions believe and find that many other religions have their good points and I learn from them. I was into witchcraft for a while. Not heavy but I dabbed in it. Not a pleasant experience. I went like this through several teenage years. I still went to church because I had no choice but I sought out other ways. Hinduis, atheism, buddhism, etc. there were many. Does that answer your question. Sorry if not I'm kinda tired. Ask me anything anytime.

When you say you didn't believe, I think in the context you are saying you simply didn't care either way about it. It didn't much matter. I would make the distinction from that and outright disbelief.

 

So you understand I'm not trying to rope you into any corner to tear at your views. I'm simply seeking to hear and understand some things from what perspective you can offer. I may ask some questions that may challenge you, but I'm not trying to deconvert you, just to add some insights into my understandings.

 

When you say you see value in other religions, are you saying you see Christianity as one among equals, or do now feel Christianity is the only way to real truth? Also, one big question I want to ask from your response, when you say sought other ways and mentioned atheism, please explain that to me - an atheist, what you mean? Did you look at the teachings of Christianity and conclude them unbelievable?

 

Then finally what made you come back to Christianity after dabbling in other belief systems, like hinduism, etc (atheism excluded since it's not a religion)?

 

Thanks for your candor,

 

Anterman

 

P.S. I agree. Ruth's lamb avatar is extreemly cool! BTW, Ruth your welcome to join in if you wish.

 

 

Ok there was a point I just didn't care one way or another which lead to disbelief in God. That was a short period of time probably under a year. But ya I just didn't believe. I don't exactly remember how that turned though. What I mean when I say I see truth in other religions that means I see that alot of what they teach is good and true. Not everything but some things. I see christianity as the only way to Christ which to me is the ultimate truth. But there are alot of things in other religions that are similar to Christianity. Which is cool. What made me come back? Good question. I felt a tugg on my heart. Small and tender but there nevertheless. I fought it for a long time. I wasn't forced or pushed or beaten into it I felt that I needed to give Christianity one more try, and started seeking God again and Christ. I don't mind if you challenge me as long as your patient with my responses. I don't always explain things right the first time. But I'll try too.

[Sadie]

I see christianity as the only way to Christ which to me is the ultimate truth.

 

You have no idea what a breath of fresh air it was for me to read your statement here, I appreciate you for adding "which to me".

 

But there are alot of things in other religions that are similar to Christianity.

 

True, but seeing that Christianity appears to have many teachings from earlier religions it isn't that surprising. Even OT laws are not original and are actually similar and in quite a few cases identical to the Code of Hammurabi here which of course is Babylonian law. More than likely that the Torah author was from or around the area of Babylonia.

 

Here is a quote from the Epilogue of Hammurabi

 

The great gods have called me, I am the salvation-bearing shepherd, whose staff is straight, the good shadow that is spread over my city; on my breast I cherish the inhabitants of the land of Sumer and Akkad; in my shelter I have let them repose in peace; in my deep wisdom have I enclosed them. That the strong might not injure the weak, in order to protect the widows and orphans, I have in Babylon the city where Anu and Bel raise high their head, in E-Sagil, the Temple, whose foundations stand firm as heaven and earth, in order to declare justice in the land, to settle all disputes, and heal all injuries, set up these my precious words, written upon my memorial stone, before the image of me, as king of righteousness.

 

Wow that is interesting. Thanks for pointint that out. And I mean that.

[Guest Guest]

Thanks for pointint that out. And I mean that.

 

No problem.

[Asuryan]

What is that avatar?

A pokemon?

The only pokemon avatar I like is the one with one pikachu slapping the shit out of another pikachu.

Or maybe a Magikarp. Put a Magikarp there! Now THAT is the ULTIMATE Pokemon!

[Sadie]

What is that avatar?

A pokemon?

The only pokemon avatar I like is the one with one pikachu slapping the shit out of another pikachu.

Or maybe a Magikarp. Put a Magikarp there! Now THAT is the ULTIMATE Pokemon!

 

Is it a pokemon? I dunno I just thought it was cute.

[crazy-tiger]

I see christianity as the only way to Christ which to me is the ultimate truth.

You have no idea what a breath of fresh air it was for me to read your statement here, I appreciate you for adding "which to me".

Indeed... it's a rare occurance, and much appreciated.

[Sadie]

I see christianity as the only way to Christ which to me is the ultimate truth.

You have no idea what a breath of fresh air it was for me to read your statement here, I appreciate you for adding "which to me".

Indeed... it's a rare occurance, and much appreciated.

 

Well, I spoke to soon. She is supports Voice of the Martyrs...they think it's okay to risk the lives of others at the expense of their "truth". Wonder how many innocents have been killed or tortured at the expense of how one see's as the religious truth "to them"?

 

If a Christian came up to you with a gun and said they were going to kill you if you didn't turn what would you do? You think you are strong in what you believe so why not stand up for it. Even if it means death. If your truth is that strong then why not be willing to die for it. I support Voice of the Martyrs because they are dying for their faith yes, but should we turn our back on our faith to save ourselves. I don't like any kind of torture on anyone. But I commend them for standing up for their beliefs whether they are right or not. Is that weakness or strength? I see it as strength. To me weakness is giving in and turning your back on your beliefs.

[Vigile]

If a Christian came up to you with a gun and said they were going to kill you if you didn't turn what would you do? You think you are strong in what you believe so why not stand up for it. Even if it means death. If your truth is that strong then why not be willing to die for it.

 

Sadie, that is EXACTLY what the church did when they wrote the claims of hell into the new testiment. Not only do they put a gun to the head of non believers, but they threaten them with ETERNAL torment if they reject the message. Biblegod's choices are love me, worship me, be my sycophant or else.

 

A lot of us grew up with that mentality from birth and yet we still dared to ask questions and ask ourselves whether there was truth to what we had been told. When I started asking questions I was scared to death I was going to hell but I still asked because truth is important to me; important enough to risk all and I did. So to answer your question, yes.

[Sadie]

If a Christian came up to you with a gun and said they were going to kill you if you didn't turn what would you do?

 

Interesting that you should use such a vile example seeing how for quite a long time that is exactly how many people turned to Christianity in the first place...heard of Dark Ages? Not mention but your example is a great example for why people are feared into Christianity by the disgusting eternal torture doctrine. I'd die but I wouldn't risk the lives of others to do so. Maybe I wouldn't, perhaps I'd go into survival mode and just lie and when left alone continue in my disbelief.

 

You think you are strong in what you believe so why not stand up for it. Even if it means death. If your truth is that strong then why not be willing to die for it. I support Voice of the Martyrs because they are dying for their faith yes, but should we turn our back on our faith to save ourselves

.

 

They may be dying for THEIR beliefs but in the meantime they are putting people at risk of being killed or tortured who didn't ask them to share their beliefs. It isn't all about you Christians, Sadie, you are risking the lives of non-believers.

 

I don't like any kind of torture on anyone.

 

Then how can you possibly love a god that supposedly tortures for eternity?

 

I see Christianity as PREYING on peoples weaknesses and it disgusts me that you all put the lives of others at risk. You wanna die for being a Christian? Knock yourself out but don't put others lives at risk for your unprovable fairytale.

 

Ok your entitled to your beliefs. Yes I heard of the Dark Ages, it doesn't mean I agree with it. All I meant from that post was you are strong in your beliefs so am I, and I'd die for mine. My choice. No body else's but mine. Hey we all talk about freedom right. You want the freedom to believe what you believe, I want the freedom to believe what I believe. You want us to "tolerate" well why so little tolerance for Christians? I'm sure you'll hit me with something, that's ok. Believe it or not there are Christians who are civil. And those that aren't, well I never said I backed them. I wish they'd get their head screwed on tighter. I'm sorry if I'm risking the lives of others but well...no one is dying for me or in the place of being tortured becuase of my beliefs. Death is sad but for truth to me it's worth it.

[Vixentrox]

Sadie, if your god ordered you to bash in the skulls of little babies and slit open the bellies of pregnant women, would you?