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Guest Babylonian Dream

 

 

She does have negative generalizations/sexist statements quite often about men...

 

Well I guess if you had been brutalised by men the way I have been, you might feel the same way. Lucky for you that doesn't seem to have happened. If you want me to stop being sexist, perhaps you could try and stop men from being so egotistical, aggressive and violent. If you think my distaste of those behaviours makes me sexist, stiff shit. I live in a world where you people rule the roost and you treat others however you like. Your entire foreign policy seems to revolve around crushing others under your heel and feeling no remorse for it whatsoever. And I am the one with the problem?

 

That I live in the United States doesn't mean I agree with, approve of, or (willingly) support the foreign policy of the US Federal Government. U.S. Military bases all over the globe isn't something I want. U.S. soldiers being ordered to invade Iraq wasn't something I wanted, either. War necessarily involves mass death and destruction--I'd be uneasy supporting even very justified ones.

Sorry for the mini-rant... It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, and I really hope it doesn't make you feel worse, Galien.

 

Oh, this is also my first post, so... Hello, everyone. LeslieWave.gif

 

Welcome! Well said!

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If a woman sees her mother being beaten by a MAN in AUSTRALIA, and she, herself ends up being beaten by a MAN in AUSTRALIA, how in THEE fuck, does this equate to all american men being assholes?

 

Am I missing something here?

 

If this is the type of rationale behind the feminist movement -- then fuck them bitches!

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If a woman sees her mother being beaten by a MAN in AUSTRALIA, and she, herself ends up being beaten by a MAN in AUSTRALIA, how in THEE fuck, does this equate to all american men being assholes?

 

Am I missing something here?

 

If this is the type of rationale behind the feminist movement -- then fuck them bitches!

 

It doesn't, and no one said it did. The american government are assholes, no questioning that fact, assorted americans may or not be assholes, but if the ridiculous shit that gets thrown about on this forum is any indication, I'd say more rather than less. If you are incapable of knowing how men have killed, looted and raped their way through the world since time immemorial, and how they still do, then you are not paying attention. Those facts are not something I have to prove.

 

I make no bones about the fact I am not a fan of males, or a fan of america, but both of those things happen because of my deeper dislike of bullies and narcissists. I find the attitude of america as a whole the same as the attitude of men as a whole. We are the boss, we deserve to be the boss, and we will ride roughshod over you if you do not submit. And for the record, I never had any dislike for americans until I started talking to them on the internet. 

 

When I speak of male behaviour, I speak about it in a global sense. I don't live in america, when I talk about what goes on in the world I don't just mean within the borders of the good old US of A. It is hard to talk to a collection of people who are so centred on one place like it is the whole world when it bloody well isn't. A LOT of nasty shit goes on in the world every day. I am lucky enough to live in a country where that shit is not tolerated, but it doesn't mean some testosterone fuelled asswipes don't still smack women around to keep them in their place. Men in western countries are supposed to know better, but a lot still don't.

 

Nobody said all men are assholes, but if, every time I express an opinion you do not like or agree with, I am attacked in that male assholey way women know so well, it is most likely only going to cement my opinion. Try and remember I am not the only person in the world who holds my views. If they things I say didn't happen, there would be no feminists. 

 

If you are personally not an asshole, and you have a penis, then don't wear the hat. In that circumstance there is no need to defend yourself or your gender.

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Guest Babylonian Dream

It doesn't, and no one said it did. The american government are assholes, no questioning that fact, assorted americans may or not be assholes, but if the ridiculous shit that gets thrown about on this forum is any indication, I'd say more rather than less. If you are incapable of knowing how blacks have killed, looted and raped their way through the world since time immemorial, and how they still do, then you are not paying attention. Those facts are not something I have to prove.

 

I make no bones about the fact I am not a fan of blacks, or a fan of america, but both of those things happen because of my deeper dislike of bullies and narcissists. I find the attitude of america as a whole the same as the attitude of africans as a whole. We are the boss, we deserve to be the boss, and we will ride roughshod over you if you do not submit. And for the record, I never had any dislike for americans until I started talking to them on the internet. 

 

When I speak of african behaviour, I speak about it in a global sense. I don't live in america, when I talk about what goes on in the world I don't just mean within the borders of the good old US of A. It is hard to talk to a collection of people who are so centred on one place like it is the whole world when it bloody well isn't. A LOT of nasty shit goes on in the world every day. I am lucky enough to live in a country where that shit is not tolerated, but it doesn't mean some melanin fuelled asswipes don't still smack whites around to keep them in their place. Blacks in western countries are supposed to know better, but a lot still don't.

Maybe that will help you to see? How do the above edits come acrossed? I'd hope that you get the point, that what you're saying is full of hatred towards all men. Whether or not it is meant that way. That being said, I've got no issue with african americans nor africans either. I'm just proving a point here, hopefully.

 

Also, in my personal experience, in the states, women get away with abusing men far more often. Also, men are not a monolith. Men are not a monolith. And not to forget, men are not a monolith. Can we please stop talking about them as if they are? And please stop verbally castrating the men you like, by putting them in a seperate category outside of our men/maleness!

 

That being said, women in power haven't been substantially different than men in power. Sorry to shatter you're worldview, but women can be just as murderous, dictatorious, rapistly, etc... as men. There are fewer, but that's because of how the psychopathy gene is passed down from a mother to her children, and how it may interact differently in females than males.

 

You're problem, is that you confuse the term male/man with psychopath.

 

 

Nobody said all men are assholes, but if, every time I express an opinion you do not like or agree with, I am attacked in that male assholey way women know so well, it is most likely only going to cement my opinion. Try and remember I am not the only person in the world who holds my views. If they things I say didn't happen, there would be no feminists. 

 

If you are personally not an asshole, and you have a penis, then don't wear the hat. In that circumstance there is no need to defend yourself or your gender.

 

Don't talk for women. Most women I know wouldn't appreciate the opinions you're pushing onto them. They have no problems with men. Some have dated psychopaths and know to avoid them, but they most certainly realize that men aren't this great huge group you think they are. Lost of people also think the earth was created in 7 days, in fact, a good portion of people on the american, african, australian, and even asian continents do. Does that make it acceptable or true? Of course not.

 

You're sexist. You talk about men the same way my mother talks about black people. I can't respect that. I can respect you though.

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Guest Babylonian Dream

Lower and lower forms of arguement, and yet my age is being introduced into the discussion. See... we're talking to you like an adult, you're talking to us as if you're a child. Someone needs a time out to reflect on what she's saying ;)

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Admittedly the "life experience" card is a dangerous one to be played. In most of my life experience it has been women who have treated men like shit, now is Gali wrong or am I wrong or are we both?

 

Stupid real world with its complicated nature... ;)

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To be perfectly honest, it's pretty sexist towards both genders. Women are pretty and only useful in a sexually satisfying way in media. Whereas men are dumb labor machines lucky to have found her, whose only purpose is to work so that she can raise the kids. But only she is usually able to think deeply, whereas he is not.

 

"whose only purpose is to work" - Well, that and to parallel park the car. 

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The sad truth of life is that men consider women secondary.Sure, in some countries we get to fight for our rights,but the underlying belief is still the same.

 

This is less true that I think you would believe. Just as we are seeing an increase in interracial marriage, gay marriage etc, I think that we are also seeing an increase in women being valued by men. Even in the Christian church there are more and more women pastors and priestesses. 

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The sad truth of life is that men consider women secondary.Sure, in some countries we get to fight for our rights,but the underlying belief is still the same.

You have unhealthy views of men, and to be perfectly honest, if that were true that our Y chromosomes and having male genitalia made us think that way, then things would be very different.

 

 

I'm not the only person that holds the views I have, and I am entitled to hold them. Sit back and have a long, hard look at this clusterfuck of a planet. Look at the cuntiest parts of it, and pretty well every single time you will find a male responsible for the shittiest, nastiest, greediest and most violent parts of it. No one is saying women are perfect, and no one is saying you as an individual are responsible for the ills of the world, but jesus mate, tell the truth.

 

I think you might gain some perspective by reading Woman's Inhumanity to Women. It's a fascinating read and belies the views you have expressed here.

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If we really want to head that way, then yes, power corrupts. Regardless of gender, skin color, religious (non-)beliefs or whathaveyou.

 

Give men power without responsibility and they'll abuse it. Likewise with women. It's a balance thing. Yes until recently (from a historical point of view) it was men who held all the power, but would the world really be that different if it had been the other way round?

 

Maybe so. I do have my doubts though. silverpenny013Hmmm.gif

 

Five minutes of watching Bad Girls Club or the Steve Wilkos Show will dispel those thoughts.

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I am no one's victim, I just see life how it is.

 

But you also said:

 

Well I guess if you had been brutalised by men the way I have been, you might feel the same way.

 

I'm not understanding your position. Which is it?

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Oh sorry guys for my psychotic break, can't imagine what I was thinking. I capitulate to your superior knowledge, experience and understanding of the world.

 

You keep referring to people not understanding the world beyond their own borders. But how can you make this claim? Some of us have traveled and lived in multiple countries with a variety of cultures and still follow the new on BBC and Al Jazira or other networks that are not America-centric. 

 

Here's my perspective. I'm a white guy who has been married to a black woman for the past 20 years. I have two black step daughters and three mixed daughters. I have two sisters and no brothers. I have lived in Batangas, Philippines, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and have traveled in Hong Kong, Korea and China. My best friends in life have been Nicaraguan, Filipino, Black, White, and Mexican. I tutored English as a Second Language to Hmong and Vietnamese immigrants. I have tried to learn from each of these relationships.

 

Granted, I have a penis. But that does not disqualify me from being thoughtful, open minded, curious, willing to learn, and sensitive to other's perspectives.

 

You are Australian and a woman. How does that make you qualified to say that I am ignorant of perspectives beyond the borders of the country in which I reside? Just what are your qualifications that demonstrate that you are more objective than you suppose me to be? 

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Admittedly the "life experience" card is a dangerous one to be played. In most of my life experience it has been women who have treated men like shit, now is Gali wrong or am I wrong or are we both?

 

Stupid real world with its complicated nature... wink.png

See that's the problem. If i was 16, I can see using the life experience card a little. But I'm 24. There's a point in one's life where one has a varied life experience, more geared towards what one discovers rather than learns from the adults around them. It then becomes harder to predict what and how much or how relevant another's life experience is.

 

Also, what does it matter anyway? Do I really need to be 90 years old to comment on the obvious?Do I need to be in my 40's and 50's to know anything about men and relationships and women and self issues?

 

Everyone's life experiences are theirs, hence my point to Galien, I've met alot of shitty people too! Not everyone and even not most people, much less most men, are like that.

 

 

To be perfectly honest, it's pretty sexist towards both genders. Women are pretty and only useful in a sexually satisfying way in media. Whereas men are dumb labor machines lucky to have found her, whose only purpose is to work so that she can raise the kids. But only she is usually able to think deeply, whereas he is not.

 

"whose only purpose is to work" - Well, that and to parallel park the car. 

 

Men are also the tools that clean it too. Very multipurposed tool they are.

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That was an awesome documentary. I really enjoyed it so much. I love to watch the 'history' of human nature and evolution so much now. That's exactly what I see in this whole documentary. More brainwashing from birth because the generations before did 'it' this way, so we just follow like little robots. Men went to work and brought home the bacon and woman had babies and kept the house nice... ran all the errands and got pretty for her man when he came home. Put his bedroom slippers on and lit his cigar at one time!!

 

 I see how it all got started because a man had much more physical strength than a woman and how that trait helped him to be top dog in life for so long. He was the species with the more rational brain. I also see the great trait of the nurturing aspect of woman because we are simply more emotional than men. So many years ago, that made woman look like they were kind of stupid.(it still can if you don't understand that woman are more emotional) We were house cleaners and babysitters.

 

These are all facts of nature between men and woman. Men had strength and woman had babies.

 

Then came the rebellion. Woman against man.The 'burning of bras' days were upon us. Woman took off their bras and aprons and started wearing pants. They no longer wanted to stay in the kitchen. So was the beginning - the fight between woman against men for equality. Woman became bitches. They started screaming  for all the same rights. We weren't even allowed to vote  that many years ago!!  Wow. What a history!! I was part of it!! I wasn't going to stay home all day and have babies like the woman in the forties and fifties - I wanted to be a career girl and be top notch like a man!!

 

I only wish I could live in good health for 200 more years to see how this is all going to play out!! It just doesn't look good to me.

 

Since the invention of television and  the printing machines to make magazines.... we have slowly been bombarded with religion, politics and the 'sexualisation' of humans with Elvis making one of the first  sexual moves on T.V. The world was aghast!! They weren't allowed to show him from the waste down after that for a while!!

 

Hence, the beginning of all the brainwashing from the media. Now we were getting it from our parents, teachers, friends and the media.

 

  I just said to someone the other day, that I wonder if it will get to the point eventually where men and woman won't wear any clothes at all in the hot summer. We're almost their now. The sexuality is beyond anything. We wonder why men can't keep their eyes off the girls??  I think were heading for big trouble. I always got so mad at god for making men such animals!!! Now I understand - we are animals!! And we are still evolving.

 

One man in the documentary summed men up quite nicely when he said that most men were brought up to be 'emotionally constipated'. When a man fell down and hurt himself, you were told not to cry. Woman were taught to allow all emotions. The men wore 'blue' and the woman wore 'pink'. We really have been taught to be two separate entities.

 

I don't think we are patient enough with each other in this evolution. It seems like it's getting out of control. Relationships don't seem to be working anymore. I am gently trying to teach my husband who I am and I am doing everything in my power to truly understand him as a man. Woman are smart but we've allowed ourselves to be brainwashed to become dumb sexy objects. Over the last 40 years as a hairstylist, I have made woman beautiful so they could  use their sexual looks to hook men and jobs. Men have been brainwashed in a different way. The generations before us did this to us and we allowed it because we thought it was normal. As much as I'd like to get in all the arguments - I can't because I think it's all part of evolution.

 

I feel very sorry for both species. I sound like my grandmother when she told me many years ago that she thought we were headed for a disaster. I say the same thing 40 years later. I call it...''the evolution of the apes''...it's a sad story. Yes, we've improved in many ways. But we have been brainwashed and we must try to learn about one another. We all belong to this world and we need to stop fighting.

 

 I really enjoyed the video. thanks.

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Nobody said all men are assholes, but if, every time I express an opinion you do not like or agree with, I am attacked in that male assholey way women know so well, it is most likely only going to cement my opinion.

 

I agree that people "attacking" you is unlikely to change your opinion, but maybe changing your opinion is not an achievable goal or even an important one.  I think opposing sexism and xenophobia is achievable and important, though, so when you spout this crap it suits me fine to see people challenge you on it.

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Lower and lower forms of arguement, and yet my age is being introduced into the discussion. See... we're talking to you like an adult, you're talking to us as if you're a child. Someone needs a time out to reflect on what she's saying wink.png

 

Oh do they now? What you are telling me is I have no right to my opinion. I think your opinions are crap, but have them if you like. No reflection necessary. I could talk to you people about this until my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth but it would make no difference. Its like arguing the point with christians. They are always right too.

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I am no one's victim, I just see life how it is.

 

But you also said:

 

Well I guess if you had been brutalised by men the way I have been, you might feel the same way.

 

I'm not understanding your position. Which is it?

 

My position is that I have been brutalised, like many others in the world, male and female, but that does not make me a victim. Being a victim is not some kind of hobby here like it is is some parts of the world. Yet. Its not some kind of label we place on people who hurt. Here shit just happens. 

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Oh sorry guys for my psychotic break, can't imagine what I was thinking. I capitulate to your superior knowledge, experience and understanding of the world.

 

You keep referring to people not understanding the world beyond their own borders. But how can you make this claim? Some of us have traveled and lived in multiple countries with a variety of cultures and still follow the new on BBC and Al Jazira or other networks that are not America-centric. 

 

Here's my perspective. I'm a white guy who has been married to a black woman for the past 20 years. I have two black step daughters and three mixed daughters. I have two sisters and no brothers. I have lived in Batangas, Philippines, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and have traveled in Hong Kong, Korea and China. My best friends in life have been Nicaraguan, Filipino, Black, White, and Mexican. I tutored English as a Second Language to Hmong and Vietnamese immigrants. I have tried to learn from each of these relationships.

 

Granted, I have a penis. But that does not disqualify me from being thoughtful, open minded, curious, willing to learn, and sensitive to other's perspectives.

 

You are Australian and a woman. How does that make you qualified to say that I am ignorant of perspectives beyond the borders of the country in which I reside? Just what are your qualifications that demonstrate that you are more objective than you suppose me to be?

 

Read what I wrote. I said if you are not an asshole don't apply my opinion to yourself. Simple. 

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Guest Babylonian Dream

If you can point to just one place where I said you weren't entitled to your sexist opinion, then you'd be right about me there. But you're not, because never did I say that. I said the opposite repeatedly. Again and again and again. You're entitled to your sexist opinions just like my mother is entitled to her racist opinions.

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Read what I wrote. I said if you are not an asshole don't apply my opinion to yourself. Simple. 

 

OK. So I am taking your advice and reading what you wrote:

 

The sad truth of life is that men consider women secondary.Sure, in some countries we get to fight for our rights,but the underlying belief is still the same.

 

You didn't say "some men." 

 

You said "men consider." 

 

That sounds pretty all-inclusive to me.

 

I'm not the only person that holds the views I have, and I am entitled to hold them. Sit back and have a long, hard look at this clusterfuck of a planet. Look at the cuntiest parts of it, and pretty well every single time you will find a male responsible for the shittiest, nastiest, greediest and most violent parts of it. No one is saying women are perfect, and no one is saying you as an individual are responsible for the ills of the world, but jesus mate, tell the truth.

 

I'd be interested to know what parts of the world are now or have ever been matriarchal so that we can compare those societies to, well, everywhere else. There is no evidence that women would have fared any better.

 

Additionally, I think you leave out an important factor in the equation. Your comments give the appearance that you think women have no say at all. But even today if you look at Middle Eastern cultures, the women there think like the men do. Mothers have been accessories to "honor killings" of their own daughters who have brought shame on themselves and their families. The general thought among women in these societies is as brutal as the thoughts of men when it comes to punishing immorality. It's not like they are all unwitting victims of the men's decisions.

 

Your opinions seem to be based in a political viewpoint. I have traveled all over the world and what I have found is not a "clusterfuck of a planet" at all. The people I have encountered have universally been decent people who do the best that they can with what they have.

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It isnt demonising something to point out its faults. This is about power.

 

This statement contributes to my perception that you are not being objective about people individually but that you have a politically-minded starting point. If you are talking about individuals, do you really expect us to believe that there are more men who brutalize women than men who cherish them? You'd have to give some stats on that before your statement is believable.

 

Well I guess if you had been brutalised by men the way I have been, you might feel the same way. 

 

You guess incorrectly. I'm not going into details but I fall into that category and I don't feel the same way. I did, for a long time, but I learned how not to hate and I let those things go. Perhaps I'm the only one in history to have done so but it is possible.

 

Your biggest problem Bab is that of all americans. No one is allowed to disagree with you, ever. 

 

Here again you are not making a rational statement. Not all Americans are the same. Are you starting to see a pattern here? 

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A boy raised in the circus has experience that tells him all men can juggle and all women can walk a tightrope. This, of course, is not true.

 

Of course it isn't true and I don't think it is. I just get tired of collective delusion. Some people are assholes, some aren't. No one is saying it is gender specific, but those with the power do the most harm. That is all I am saying.

 

This contradicts your earlier statements.

 

Actually pawn I just hate controlling assholes. If that does not apply to you, then it is not directed at you. 

 

I find this a curious statement when juxtaposed against this one:

 

My position is that I have been brutalised, like many others in the world, male and female, but that does not make me a victim. Being a victim is not some kind of hobby here like it is is some parts of the world. Yet. Its not some kind of label we place on people who hurt. Here shit just happens. 

 

You have one of two options. Either you are powerless (and therefore a victim) or you are not powerless.

 

People seek power. Period. That's simple fact. Everyone wants some level of control. Some use brute force. Some use manipulation. If by "controlling assholes" you mean the brute force group, I can understand that. But the manipulation group can also be controlling assholes. I'm not really sure which you mean by stating that you hate "controlling assholes." 

 

One way that people try to be controlling assholes is to insult the people they are speaking to and try to belittle them. Such as:

 

You know what bab, how about you come back to me in 20 years after you have had a bit more life experience, and we ill have this conversation again.

 

and...

 

The problem is I too readily assume some of the people here read, or take notice of anything that goes on in the world. 

 

and...

 

And guys, you are not women. Sure, have your opinion but please don't pretend you know what it is like to be one. You don't.

 

Do you see how you come off as both hostile and irrational?

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Once you watch your father smash you mother in the face repeatedly year after year, it is pretty hard to get that vision out of your head. After being punched by your husband for having an opinion it is hard to get that vision out of your head. When you are born into a place where almost every male acts that way, it is hard to get that vision out of your head. When you see power abused in every area of life, it is hard to pretend it doesn't happen.

 

Do I think all men in westernised nations have that opinion, or act that way? No. Do I think a fair proportion would act that way if they though they could get away with it? Probably.

 

I am very sorry for your experiences. But those are your experiences and clearly cloud your perceptions. As Florduh stated, people raised in a circus have a different worldview than those raised outside of one. You were raised in a violent community. But that is not necessarily representative of the rest of the world. If you had had the opportunity to travel, you would find that the number of communities that allow brutalization of women is far smaller than you imagine. 

 

I am 52, I remember well when men ruled their families with an iron fist, and obedience and submission was expected by women and children. That is still the way it is in many parts of the world. Just because it might not happen on your doorstep, or in your street, does not mean it doesn't happen. Men are the major perpetrators of violence in the world, not women. 

 

My mother-in-law (recall that my wife is black) grew up in Alabama before the civil rights movement. But you know what, her daughter married a white guy. Her nieces and nephews are all well educated, high-paid professionals. The world is not worse today than it was back then. It's better. Perfect? No. But certainly much improved.

 

Your perceptions are colored by your experiences but they do not reflect what is factual today. Is there still abuse? Yes. But the vast majority of people in the world abhor such things, not the other way around. I think you need to look about you and find that there is hope and there are improvements over what you experienced.

 

Oh sorry guys for my psychotic break, can't imagine what I was thinking. I capitulate to your superior knowledge, experience and understanding of the world.

 

Again with the invective. You make it very difficult to take your words without becoming defensive.

 

 

If a woman sees her mother being beaten by a MAN in AUSTRALIA, and she, herself ends up being beaten by a MAN in AUSTRALIA, how in THEE fuck, does this equate to all american men being assholes?

 

It doesn't, and no one said it did. The american government are assholes, no questioning that fact, assorted americans may or not be assholes, but if the ridiculous shit that gets thrown about on this forum is any indication, I'd say more rather than less.

 

Have you even been to America? I would venture to guess that you have not. Come on over and you will find that we are not as bad as you seem to think we are and that we hate our politicians far more than you ever could.

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If you are incapable of knowing how men have killed, looted and raped their way through the world since time immemorial, and how they still do, then you are not paying attention. Those facts are not something I have to prove.

 

I'm afraid you do. Where are the barbarian hordes today who are going about raping and pillaging?

 

I make no bones about the fact I am not a fan of males, or a fan of america, but both of those things happen because of my deeper dislike of bullies and narcissists. I find the attitude of america as a whole the same as the attitude of men as a whole. We are the boss, we deserve to be the boss, and we will ride roughshod over you if you do not submit. And for the record, I never had any dislike for americans until I started talking to them on the internet. 

 

When I speak of male behaviour, I speak about it in a global sense. I don't live in america, when I talk about what goes on in the world I don't just mean within the borders of the good old US of A. It is hard to talk to a collection of people who are so centred on one place like it is the whole world when it bloody well isn't. A LOT of nasty shit goes on in the world every day. I am lucky enough to live in a country where that shit is not tolerated, but it doesn't mean some testosterone fuelled asswipes don't still smack women around to keep them in their place. Men in western countries are supposed to know better, but a lot still don't.

 

You claim that Americans are not objective. I don't know upon what experiences you draw that conclusion. I'd be interested to know why you think that you are more objective than all those Americans when clearly your objectivity is marred by how Australian men behave. You have not demonstrated that you are qualified to classify Americans the way you do.

 

Nobody said all men are assholes

 

You did (see above).

 

 

Lower and lower forms of arguement, and yet my age is being introduced into the discussion. See... we're talking to you like an adult, you're talking to us as if you're a child. Someone needs a time out to reflect on what she's saying wink.png

 

Oh do they now? What you are telling me is I have no right to my opinion. 

 

Yes. You have a right to your opinion. But you have a habit of professing your opinion as fact. I think that's what is mainly being objected to.

 

I could talk to you people about this until my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth but it would make no difference. Its like arguing the point with christians. They are always right too.

 

Again, you resort to insults. Aren't you tired of that?

 

Look, I have never found a more tolerant and objective group of people than I have found here. If you are failing to make your point, it is because you are failing, not because the people here are donkeys unwilling to move. Stop making such sweeping statements, provide some proof that you are able to be objective or that your statements are accurate and you'll get along fine. 

 

Stop lashing out and quit making us the enemy. We aren't 

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