Weird Unexplainable Stuff Is Happening

[WarriorPoet]

Do you guys see what's happening here? Another honest man is being honest about the difficulties he is having in disentangling himself from his former religion and a "christian" is high-jacking the entire thread to promote his own selfish interests. Preying upon weakness, zeroing in on fears, manipulating through guilt, all while proclaiming the "freedom" of christ: these are the tactics christians are reduced to using because they know they cannot appeal to intellect, reason, or objectivity. Sandiego4me, I call you a hypocrite, a manipulator, and a disingenuous, dishonest, disrespectful little child who prattles on endlessly about himself and his imaginary friend, even while people in deep emotional distress are reaching out for sincere and honest support.

First, Austere is an honest woman, but that isn't really important.

 

Butting heads with a troll can be fun sometimes, even though nothing comes from it. This is not the correct place to do it though. This thread is almost completely derailed by this point and it shouldn't be. Austere has some legitimate questions and concerns and we let this twerp distract us from what we should have been doing.

 

Austere, my personal advice is to start a new thread, and please folks, let me humbly suggest that we feed the trolls only in those places where it is appropriate to do so.

[RipVanWinkle]

I haven't read the posts on this thread after your OP yet. But I don't need to in order to tell that you are reacting just as you have been programmed to react. I don't remember who the author was who said the following, but he was or is a well known atheist author. He said: "Unless some event or occurrence cannot be said to have happened without a miracle, it should not be considered to be one."

Do you REALLY think that a supernatural power was involved in the the communication from your parents? How likely is that compared to it merely being a coincidence which occur in our world every day by the millions? Don't let your courageous discovery of the truth be diverted by something so insubstantial.  Instead ask yourself why an all good, all knowing, all powerful god created humans knowing that he would end up torturing most of them in hell for eternity? Just keep educating yourself with critical biblical history and other literature directed at disclosing the myth of Xtianity..   Good luck      bill

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Do you guys see what's happening here? Another honest man is being honest about the difficulties he is having in disentangling himself from his former religion and a "christian" is high-jacking the entire thread to promote his own selfish interests. Preying upon weakness, zeroing in on fears, manipulating through guilt, all while proclaiming the "freedom" of christ: these are the tactics christians are reduced to using because they know they cannot appeal to intellect, reason, or objectivity. Sandiego4me, I call you a hypocrite, a manipulator, and a disingenuous, dishonest, disrespectful little child who prattles on endlessly about himself and his imaginary friend, even while people in deep emotional distress are reaching out for sincere and honest support.

First, Austere is an honest woman, but that isn't really important.

 

Butting heads with a troll can be fun sometimes, even though nothing comes from it. This is not the correct place to do it though. This thread is almost completely derailed by this point and it shouldn't be. Austere has some legitimate questions and concerns and we let this twerp distract us from what we should have been doing.

 

Austere, my personal advice is to start a new thread, and please folks, let me humbly suggest that we feed the trolls only in those places where it is appropriate to do so.

 

 

Allow me first to offer my apologies to Austere for my gender faux pas; I am usually pretty good at checking first before using gender specific pronouns and in this case, I slipped up.  I also would like to say that while it is sometimes necessary to engage trolls for the sake of those who may be lurking with questions and doubts of their own, WarriorPoet is correct in that this is usually not the forum in which to do so.  I humbly submit to you, Austere, that you have our full support as ex-christians and without speaking for anyone else, I will say that if there is anything I can do to help you through the perplexities you are currently enduring, you need only to ask.  The derailment of this thread should not, for a moment, take away from the seriousness of the struggle you are currently facing, and as a community, we have each been in similar situations.

[austere]

Curious, who said that you can't be a Christian and be free?   Nobody has all the answers (Christians and non-Christians alike).   God really does move.  I went through TONS of doubt when I was young.  Read my book (free at Smashwords.com) called "iDoubt: When Faith Falters."    Why not be a Christian who is free and isn't afraid to raise questions?   Don't give up on the hope that is within you. 

 

Who said I can't believe and be free? Nobody. Despite everyone telling me the opposite, I realised on my own. Wouldn't accept it for the longest time, either.

 

Just because we both don't have all the answers, doesn't mean I should choose to delude myself any longer.

 

You went through tons of doubt? So did I. For a good few years I managed to squash it down. No longer.

 

Why not be a Christian who is free and isn't afraid to raise questions? I was, for two years. It led me here.

 

Don't give up on the hope within? What hope??????

 

SD, if you're still here, I know you're trying to be nice and encouraging, but this is exactly the opposite of what I wanted and needed. Your comment caused me some distress and I think it's extremely out of place here. If I had posted in a more general forum, I would not have been so short with you for answering this way, but that's not the case here. I think by your actions you've waived the right to politeness. Don't come back here.

 

Oh, and you want me to read your book? I'm sorry, but I make it a point not to engage with anything that rips off the 'i' gimmick. It's trashy.

 

To everyone else, I hope we can end the derailment there (please forgive me for indulging myself in having the last response!), and I think it's possible to get this thread back on track. I really appreciate the thoughts of everyone who has posted so far, you've given me a lot to think about. I will respond in a few hours (I have an essay due in a few hours, but when I checked back here I was too mad to put off responding to SD at least).

[Darkillusion]

I once went halfway around the world with my boss. The first person who greeted us there turned out to be the brother of his next-door neighbor.

 

Another time I went halfway around the world in the opposite direction and stayed at a bed & breakfast right before the start of the high season. A German couple arrived the same day I did. Six months later, I went back to the same b&b in the off season. They were closed, but they let me stay by special arrangement. The very same day I arrived, the very same German couple showed up again and wanted to stay.

 

Cue Twilight Zone theme.

 

Yet the fact is that neither of these things meant a damn.

 

Another time I was lying in bed with a boyfriend and he and I both popped up at the same time with the phrase "Kerr wide-mouth Mason jars." This was completely out of the blue (believe me we were not into anything kinky involving cookware). But again ... meaningless.

 

And haven't we all sometimes picked up the phone to call a friend just as that friend was doing the same?

 

Is there some woo at work? I dunno. But was it part of christiangod's plan that all these meaningless but memorable things happen? Was he Sending Vital Messages via Mason jar or wandering Germans? That's one hell of a long shot.

Oh that is some cool stuff!  Love it!  Your travel story, a nice example of the small world we live in (:  It's always neat running into someone you know when you are far from home on a trip.

 

OP, I have my own freaky example that I interpreted with my "god goggles" at the time.  I had been completely out of contact with a friend for a few years.  We still had each other's numbers though.  One Sunday, my pastor preached about something (can't remember what, probably some message on reconciliation), and it made me think of getting back in contact with my friend.  I was thinking about emailing her while at lunch after church when I got a text from her saying she had been thinking of me and was wondering how I was doing.  Hallelujah a sign from god!  He must want us to be friends again! I thought it was amazing that we had been out of touch for so long but thought to make contact on the same day.

 

Of course, it was just a coincidence.  She probably had been to church and had a similar sermon that made her think of me.  It isn't too far-fetched to think that 2 different churches were both preaching messages on reconciliation that day, or maybe her church was preaching something else but it reminded her of me anyway.  Considering how we both went to church every Sunday, it is certainly not impossible that some Sunday we would both hear a sermon that inspired us to contact each other.  

 

Moral of the story, until something happens that would actually be impossible and could not possibly be chalked up to coincidence, just carry on with your life.  If god really wants to win you back he can put in a little more effort than some easily misinterpreted or overlooked hints.

[mymistake]

 

Have I made the wrong choice? Am I going to have to turn my back on this newfound freedom that I have to find the truth, all over again??

 

 

Interesting.  Does it seem like a choice to you?  Or is that what the Christians want you to think because of their dogma of punishing people for bad choices?  Many people here, myself included, found that they can't make a choice about belief.  When I was a Christian I couldn't choose to not believe in God no matter what logical argument I encountered.  I struggled with that for years.  Even when I walked away from Christianity I still felt compelled to believe in God and search for what Christianity got wrong about God.  Then one day an event took my belief away.  After that I have never been able to believe in God again.  How does that compare to your experience?

 

 

i know that there is no way the Bible is true, that it's too full of contradictions and the Christian religion has too many unanswerable questions in it. But how do I explain these coincidences? I keep having stuff like this happen, that makes me think there is someone out there looking out for me and trying to guide me back to Jesus, for whatever ulterior motive. I've had it all my life, and now that I've stopped being a Christian, they're still coming. I feel like it's not just in my head.

 

When I was growing up my family exposed me to preachers and teachers who emphasized demons.  So I developed quite a fear of them.  I would be doing yard work and get scratches without realizing it.  I was focused on what I was doing so I wouldn't see the scratches until I took a shower.  Because of the Christian influence I would assume these scratches were caused by demons, demons who cut my own skin when I was asleep.  Because I had my spiritual answer I didn't bother to investigate any further.  I knew what was causing it so no need to look at other alternatives.  And the solution was to pray harder, feel more guilt, sin less, go to church more, sacrifice more at the offering plate, trust my pastor more.  Only those things didn't prevent me from getting scratched while doing yard work.  It was like an addiction.

 

At the time I had no idea just how superstitious and mystical I had become because Christians believe (one) they are not and (two) those things are wrong.  But looking back that is exactly how my family practiced Christianity.  We were prayer warriors casting our spells hoping and believing that our magic would change the real world.  (Of course it wasn't magic because Christians don't do magic and magic is wrong - but it really was magical thinking)  So any time something bad happened I would first look for how that fit the spiritual war between angels and demons raging all around me.  If nothing bad happened I saw this nothing as evidence that my guardian angels were winning.

 

Terrible way to live.  Anyway, food for thought.  Maybe some of this sounds familiar.  Mostly I want you to know you are not crazy.

[ExCBooster]

Austere, stuff like that happens to me (and, I assume, everybody) all the time. Hear about a movie that's been out for a while for the first time, and two other people might mention it by the end of the week, independently. I found a dollar bill used as a bookmark once, in an obscure book in a pretty remote section of an academic library, on the exact page that I was looking for (it was an older translation of the Art of War, which itself is pretty common, but I wanted that particular one, which is hard to get, because it had all of the commentaries, too, not just the main text). Call a friend, just as they were going to pick up the phone to call me. It was a nice day, so I decided to leave early for work for once, and end up not getting stuck behind a really long train that would have made me late if I'd left at the usual time. The thing is, however you want to explain these things, the "it's totally God" explanation won't do for me, since this happens anyway, and I was raised outside of religion and I'm still an atheist. This sort of stuff is really just a thing that happens.

 

Bad coincidences happen too, but you won't find Christians questioning why someone got in a car wreck in the first place, but rather attributing someone's survival to prayers or God's intervention. Of course, if someone were to die in the car wreck, there'd be a convenient rationalization for it... To me, Christianity robs people of the ability to say, sh*t just happens. This is very important, really. Bad things happen, not because we've failed God in some way, or didn't pray hard enough, but because, sometimes, sh*t just happens. And sometimes, good things happen, too. But, from personal experience, it's random. We're all equal, before chance. It's not something you can placate, or plead with, like a personalized deity, but it's not vengeful or likely to throw jealous tantrums, either.

[austere]

Thanks to everyone who replied; you really helped me set my mind more at ease. Coincidences do happen, and those of you who pointed out that Jesus could be doing something a bit more majestic/helpful to the world to prove he exists are bang on. Thanks so much. I knew I was being a bit silly, but like you said, it's indoctrinated thought patterns at work in my head, trained to look for anything that coincides with anything else, and it takes a while to get out of.

 

Wanted to reply to some of the other posts here as well

 

I think I am starting to notice a pattern in how  we ex-Cs deconvert.   There seem to be at least two ways to do it when it comes to supernatural stuff.  

 

1) Hang on to Christianity for years, gradually letting go of beliefs, until you finally have discarded every supernatural/miracle type belief you have, then leave, no strings attached.

 

2)  Leave Christianity rather abruptly, still uncertain about the state or presence of the supernatural.  Struggle with seemingly supernatural happenings for many years.

 

3)   Leave Christianity, still believe in supernatural stuff anyway, no struggling involved.

 

I have no commentary other than that.  Interesting food for thought.  

 

That's an interesting thought. I thought I was number 1 in the first couple of days, then I quickly ended up at number 2, where I currently do remain... It's so uncomfortable to think that people have deliberately put these ideas in my head and now I'm struggling with seeds of other peoples' ideas that I've then grown into what basically amounts to a wild jungle of ideas. If that makes sense.

 

15 years ago I started doing probability calculations on events such as those you describe. The first thing that came up was that likelihoods of such events being coincidence were astronomical. They proved highly unlikely to be coincidence. So I had to start asking, why then do these things happen?
About three years ago I started writing fictional stories about a culture that didn't take these kinds of things as "weird" or spooky or supernatural, but rather natural workings of the human mind and part of every day experience. I had to call it something, so I called it "entanglement," borrowed from the quantum phenomenon of two linked ions.

Your post isn't the place for me to write an article on entanglement, but if I can put it into a couple of sentences for you it may help.
When 2 people first fall in love, they discover that they are thinking the same things at the same time quite a lot. Entanglement.
When a young child is separated from a dedicated parent who senses what's happening right down to details, entanglement.
When a loved one living far away and out of contact dies and you suddenly sense it, this is entanglement.

These things aren't supernatural, they're natural, normal, and common. We're wired for it (some better than others - I had one subject who was off the charts). Relax and enjoy it. Your parents, though indoctrinated, love you.

 

That is a really interesting thought. Do you mind elaborating? I've often noticed little things like this in life that I didn't connect with Christianity, but it still puzzles me all the same.

[austere]

Yeah, I think the Creator of the Universe - who created BILLIONS of galaxies each so vast that you're less significant than a bacteria by comparison - is taking the time to fuck with you via vague coincidences that might or might not be there... but just might be cute little mini-miracles if you squint and tilt your head just right.

 

I know that's what I'd do if I were a gawd who'd created unimaginable and vast wonders out of boredom. I'd find some little bacteria who can't even remotely comprehend my creation - let alone me - and gently fuck with them via hints so subtle that they just might be coincidences. Universe-weilding dieties get a kick outta that kind of thing.

 

I have no idea whether you're being sarcastic or not, but it worries me that part of me literally still believes this despite knowing how ridiculous it is.

 

No atheist claims to have all the answers. They simply claim to recognize some of the bad ones. If god really does move, I find it quite interesting that he only seems to do so through improbable-yet-natural, unverifiable means when he could reveal himself in any number of undeniable ways. When a cancer goes into remission suddenly, it must be god, and yet I have never seen god heal an amputee. Hmm...

 That amputee point is a really good one. I never heard of that argument until I started visiting the main site, and I had to stop and think --yeah, it really doesn't make sense.

[austere]

 

 

Have I made the wrong choice? Am I going to have to turn my back on this newfound freedom that I have to find the truth, all over again??

 

 

Interesting.  Does it seem like a choice to you?  Or is that what the Christians want you to think because of their dogma of punishing people for bad choices?  Many people here, myself included, found that they can't make a choice about belief.  When I was a Christian I couldn't choose to not believe in God no matter what logical argument I encountered.  I struggled with that for years.  Even when I walked away from Christianity I still felt compelled to believe in God and search for what Christianity got wrong about God.  Then one day an event took my belief away.  After that I have never been able to believe in God again.  How does that compare to your experience?

 

Comparison coming up!

Two weeks ago to the day, I suddenly found myself unable to believe, but I still have doubts that my disbelief is based on truth. I've always been of the view that belief doesn't influence truth one way or the other, and I think that's having an effect now. The decision to ignore those doubts or find stuff to allay them, and instead to fill my mind with anti-God material is definitely a decision, one that I would have taken very seriously once upon a time. I keep wanting to go back to God, and it's only half of my head that tells me, no, that's impossible. The other half just wants to go back to habit and pray etc etc, and I have to keep stopping it. So yeah, it does feel like a choice at this point. Even though there is this little hard core of disbelief, it's wrapped in a crazy amount of old beliefs and systems and thought patterns. Hard to get rid of. Yeah, it still feels like a choice.

 

***

I think that's all the replies that stuck out. Again, thanks to everyone else who has posted so far, especially those with other stories of coincidences far crazier than mine (mine do seem a bit out of proportion now!). It helps to put it in some perspective. You're all beautiful people and I really appreciate you taking the time to type out some help for a girl with a bit of paranoia

 

(P.S. RedneckProfessor, no offense taken at all. Accidents happen!)

[RankStranger]

 

Yeah, I think the Creator of the Universe - who created BILLIONS of galaxies each so vast that you're less significant than a bacteria by comparison - is taking the time to fuck with you via vague coincidences that might or might not be there... but just might be cute little mini-miracles if you squint and tilt your head just right.

 

I know that's what I'd do if I were a gawd who'd created unimaginable and vast wonders out of boredom. I'd find some little bacteria who can't even remotely comprehend my creation - let alone me - and gently fuck with them via hints so subtle that they just might be coincidences. Universe-weilding dieties get a kick outta that kind of thing.

 

I have no idea whether you're being sarcastic or not, but it worries me that part of me literally still believes this despite knowing how ridiculous it is.

 

 

 

Yeah, I was being sarcastic.  I'm just saying that from an outside perspective, the entire christian notion of 'god' is utterly ridiculous.  

 

We're talking about a 'god' who picked a random tribe of goat-herders and helped them vanquish their enemies... except that he failed when said enemies had chariots of iron.  This is a 'god' who is supposedly everywhere and all-powerful... and yet he physically wrestled with Jacob (and got beat).  He feared what his human critters would accomplish via the Tower of Babel- and now that we humans have been far beyond where any 'tower' could get us- what the fuck was he concerned about anyway?

 

We now know that the universe is more vast than any of us can even remotely imagine- seriously, there more entire GALAXIES out there than individual cells in our brains.  We're laughably insignificant compared with even our own solar system- let alone the universe.  Nothing in the bible indicates this- in fact the christian concept of 'god' reflects a bronze-age understanding of the world.  If the silly thing was divinely inspired- wouldn't it reflect something beyond what the goat-herders could have imagined or guessed at the time?  

 

I understand that 'knowing' and 'believing' aren't exactly the same thing- and that the two won't necessarily match.  It's hard to overcome your upbringing and a world-view you've held onto for years.  I'm just trying to show how this looks from outside the christian perspective.  If you hadn't been raised with it... you wouldn't find it even remotely credible.

[spiritrider2013]

When I made my decision to leave christianity, I went through something similar. I felt lost because I had given so much of myself to christianity. When something "bad" would happen, I would give it more power and meaning than it deserved. My indoctrination was telling me that I was going to be punished or something bad was going to happen to me because I left the fold. This was my indoctrination speaking. I told that voice to shut up but it would still whisper things to me(metaphorically). Then, I realized I had to indoctrinate mysef with reality and eventually my own indoctrination began to speak to me and I began to heal from this experience. Life is awesome and contains a lot of experiences and phenomenon that can not be explained-this is real life. Like the law of attraction states, your life will manifest what you believe and what you expect from it.

 

You have only been out of Christianity for a while. It will take time for reality to strengthen you. In my opinion, you need to indoctrinate yourself with a new way of life that promotes positivity and reality or you will very easily fall back into any kind of religion that seeks to control your mind and your life. Take control of your own life and be strong. Life is to short to live with your head in the clouds. Look down at your feet and see the earth. The place where you stand is reality. Life is good.