Argh No - Some Encouragement

[themonkeyman]

Hi Folks,

 

I have been struggling with depression because of my fear of going to Hell.  I know the Bible makes no sense but part of me still believes the Absolute Fear of eternal damnation that it offers.

 

E.g. I worry about if I am wrong!  I know there are large numbers of other relgions and I even have friends and family who have no problem not having a belief why is it just me that seams to be so afraid of Hell!

 

Can someone encourage me this is normal.  I have been an Athiest for around 4 months now and the last 2 months have been great.  But when my girlfriend asked about the Big Bang the whole fear of what If I have got it all wrong and God does exist has put awful terror into me.

[mymistake]

I went through the same thing for several months.  It went away eventually. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(sorry, I can't type or spell)

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

You went away? Where??!??!    Just teasin' mymistake

 

Monkeyman

 

This is trauma you are still dealing with. Seriously. And what is worse than the whole eternal damnation bit? When you finally accept that Hell isn't a reality,  then you will grieve your life a little bit. I know I did. The idea of how much I wasted of my every thought and breath on the idea of life after death really upset me a lot. Then I had to face fears of my eventual death and try to wrap my brain around nothingness. THAT bothered me more than anything. Now, I think I worry more about the process of dying, not the end result. Overall though, I think I enjoy life even more now. There isn't some little false hope of illusion nagging at me that causes me to make shallow decisions. I don't have the notion that if I am wrong, oh well, I will be forgiven in the next life. I value every detail so much more now. I am much more empathetic towards all those around me. But it took me many years to get to that point.

 

Bottom line? You need to make as much out of your life as you can. And if all the Hell conditioning is seriously interfering with your daily life and relationships, don't hesitate to seek counseling. There are plenty of secular psychologists out there who can help you work through this. Don't scare yourself back into belief. And I would recommend reading J. Krishnamurti's essay The Wholeness of Life, just to help you find some focus. I can't share his work enough.

 

Here's an excerpt:

 

There is a way of living, in daily life, where time as movement from this state to that, has gone. What happens when you do that? You have an extraordinary vitality, an extraordinary sense of clarity. You are then only dealing with facts, not with ideas. But as most of us are imprisoned in ideas and have accepted that way of life, it is very difficult to break away. But, have an insight into it, then it is finished. (http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-text.php?s=books&tid=23&chid=56974)

 

All of his works are FREE to the public, and he spoke on conditioning that is just...WOW. It really changed my life just reading it. http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-text.php?s=books&tid=9&chid=57009

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Again, Monkey, I submit to you that the indoctrination is still upon you.  This kind of brainwashing doesn't simply go away overnight, but this, too, shall pass.  Eventually...

 

In the meantime, I propose we change the subject.  I see you are from Norin Iron.  I really miss Norin Iron.  Please tell me everything you know about Carrickfergus.  Does the castle still stand?  Is Shaftesbury Park still as beautiful as I remember?  Is The Hot Spot still the best chippie in town?  Speak to me, man!  

[themonkeyman]

Howdie Professor,

 

Aye the castle is still in one peace its had some amount of work done to it over the last few years to stabilize the building as it was becoming a bit 'Dated' lol.  So in northern Ireland speak they sand washed the building.

 

Are you from N.I Shaftsbury park is still in one peace they have had a major development there two with some new designs and landscaping.  I myself am from Antrim Town up the road from Belfast and Carrick.

 

What made you move to the states?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Howdie Professor,

 

Aye the castle is still in one peace its had some amount of work done to it over the last few years to stabilize the building as it was becoming a bit 'Dated' lol.  So in northern Ireland speak they sand washed the building.

 

Are you from N.I Shaftsbury park is still in one peace they have had a major development there two with some new designs and landscaping.  I myself am from Antrim Town up the road from Belfast and Carrick.

 

What made you move to the states?

 

In truth, my good man, I am a son of the Confederacy (Southern states of America).  But during my sojourn in christendom, I had cause to be in Carrickfergus; I spoke of it in my ex-timony (Set Aside at Least an Hour for This).  However, the impression Norin Iron left upon me will never be erased and I will always pine for her green glens and dales.  

 

Ah, Antrim Town, how I long to walk your humble footpaths again!  Tell me, Monkey, have you ever been up the Knochagh?  Did you ever drink in such fresh air?  Did you look out upon Belfast Lough from the mountain and weep?  Have a pint for me, me auld mucker!

[sdelsolray]

Hi Folks,

 

I have been struggling with depression because of my fear of going to Hell.  I know the Bible makes no sense but part of me still believes the Absolute Fear of eternal damnation that it offers.

 

E.g. I worry about if I am wrong!  I know there are large numbers of other relgions and I even have friends and family who have no problem not having a belief why is it just me that seams to be so afraid of Hell!

 

Can someone encourage me this is normal.  I have been an Athiest for around 4 months now and the last 2 months have been great.  But when my girlfriend asked about the Big Bang the whole fear of what If I have got it all wrong and God does exist has put awful terror into me.

Quite frankly, your reaction does not appear to be normal.  You should consult with the mental health professionals of your choosing.

[centauri]

Hi Folks,

 

I have been struggling with depression because of my fear of going to Hell.  I know the Bible makes no sense but part of me still believes the Absolute Fear of eternal damnation that it offers.

 

E.g. I worry about if I am wrong!  I know there are large numbers of other relgions and I even have friends and family who have no problem not having a belief why is it just me that seams to be so afraid of Hell!

 

Can someone encourage me this is normal.  I have been an Athiest for around 4 months now and the last 2 months have been great.  But when my girlfriend asked about the Big Bang the whole fear of what If I have got it all wrong and God does exist has put awful terror into me.

Try looking at it a bit differently.

Your major concern seems to be if God exists and you made a mistake.

Let's assume for a moment that there is a higher power that could be called "God".

How would you know that the version you fear is the correct one?

If you rely on the Bible, you've got a dilemma, for the Hebrew deity of the Old Testament is not the same deity as the New Testament version.

The plan for salvation is quite different between the two.

Nor can "hell" be properly defined, because there is no set version of that either.

Ask yourself where your ideas about these things originated and I'll lay odds it was stuffed inside your skull by clerics or other authority figures.

In other words, you're a product of your acquired beliefs, the baggage given to you by others.

Have any of the clerics, parents, whomever, ever had a guided tour of heaven or hell?

Do you really need to be carrying around these bags?

[chrisstavrous]

Mr monkeyman,

 

Your an awesome person, look how honest you are about your feelings and thoughts, you are intellectual honest as well and I love all your questions you post.

 

Now all you have to do is see that in yourself and know when you do, you will see that no one is without something wonderful about them, and if god would send people to hell knowing full well who they really are then he lost the greatest friends he could ever have.

[themonkeyman]

So true,  I dont understand why I am jumping to the Christian God its really odd.  Because I know that the OT and NT are different Gods and I know that Islam and Judaism would affirm the OT but would never defend the NT which gives me pause for thought.

 

I am just going through one of them Phases of 'What If' but then my mind then throws the question 'Which Relgion'  As much as Christianity is the default setting it my head its a culture thing and it will take time for this automatic switch to stop jumping to that conclusion.

[GypsyMoon]

Monkeyman.....

 

What you are going through is what a lot of deconverts go through. I myself have asked "what if i'm wrong and they are right" many many times. It will pass, eventually.

 

I found comfort in a different belief. I was an atheist for a while, then an agnostic, and now I am a hippy... sort of a deist but not really. basically I believe that we had to have come from somewhere, and something must control cosmos.. somehow. I believe in the universe, and that decisions that we make in life will affect whatever will happen next (consequence). I also believe that Karma will repay everyone whatever they have done. So if you do bad it will somehow come back to bite you in your ass.

 

So I believe that the universe has a say, like it controls the weather, the plants the air. stuff like that. yes its all scientifically explained, but I found too many questions in myself with the big bang theory. I don't really believe that. I don't believe creation either. to be honest, I don't really have any answers...

 

But I trust I will find them someday.

 

Yes I wonder often if I hadve stayed Christian would my life be better, but I don't think it would. We all travel our own paths, and wherever that leads you is only for you to find out.

 

So keep travelling on your road of investigation and discovery... you will eventually find your niche, and yes it may be painful at times, but if life wasn't painful and hard at times it would be extrememly boring.

 

Peace

 

GM

[chrisstavrous]

So true, I dont understand why I am jumping to the Christian God its really odd. Because I know that the OT and NT are different Gods and I know that Islam and Judaism would affirm the OT but would never defend the NT which gives me pause for thought.

 

I am just going through one of them Phases of 'What If' but then my mind then throws the question 'Which Relgion' As much as Christianity is the default setting it my head its a culture thing and it will take time for this automatic switch to stop jumping to that conclusion.

Yep you are going through the what if stage, be strong there's more to come, but it does get better. Soon you will find that accepting you really know nothing and that letting life do it's thing while you sit back and learn is such peace. (This is were I am now, it took over 9 months.)

[chrisstavrous]

Monkeyman.....

 

What you are going through is what a lot of deconverts go through. I myself have asked "what if i'm wrong and they are right" many many times. It will pass, eventually.

 

I found comfort in a different belief. I was an atheist for a while, then an agnostic, and now I am a hippy... sort of a deist but not really. basically I believe that we had to have come from somewhere, and something must control cosmos.. somehow. I believe in the universe, and that decisions that we make in life will affect whatever will happen next (consequence). I also believe that Karma will repay everyone whatever they have done. So if you do bad it will somehow come back to bite you in your ass.

 

So I believe that the universe has a say, like it controls the weather, the plants the air. stuff like that. yes its all scientifically explained, but I found too many questions in myself with the big bang theory. I don't really believe that. I don't believe creation either. to be honest, I don't really have any answers...

 

But I trust I will find them someday.

 

Yes I wonder often if I hadve stayed Christian would my life be better, but I don't think it would. We all travel our own paths, and wherever that leads you is only for you to find out.

 

So keep travelling on your road of investigation and discovery... you will eventually find your niche, and yes it may be painful at times, but if life wasn't painful and hard at times it would be extrememly boring.

 

Peace

GM

I'd like to add to this for monkeyman, gypsymoon's beliefs will not affect anyone here, I'm a soft atheist but it does not affect anyone here. We all grow to love and respect other peoples beliefs because we don't assume that they have it all wrong, because we know we don't have it all right. But you can't achieve this kind of understanding and respect for another's beliefs when your said beliefs tell you you are right and the rest are wrong.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Monkeyman, my previous posts have demonstrated what a large impact my time in Carrick had on me.  I was there for only 6 months over a decade ago; yet I still miss it.  I'd wager you were in the church longer than 6 months; so the impact on your life will naturally be greater.  Deconversion takes time.  Hang in there and don't worry about what label to hang on yourself.  Just keep thinking and educating yourself.

[Discern]

What shook my belief in hell just before I deconverted was the fact that there's no eternal torment in the Old Testament. You've got the Jewish "sheol" where everyone goes (both good and evil); and then in the NT you get Jesus introducing eternal punishment and fire and brimstone for those who reject God. Big difference.

Why on earth didn't God warn anyone about eternal torment for the entire Old Testament? That just doesn't make any sense if we're talking about the supposedly loving, compassionate God that sent his only son Jesus. The inconsistency here made me realize something is really amiss. The jews, who wrote the OT, never believed in eternal torment, so of course they didn't write about it. Their God Yahweh did not create such a place.

By the time Jesus comes along, there's some new theories and ideas about hell and eternal torment (probably influenced by greek mythology) which were not accepted by most jews, but the Jesus character seemed to pick up on it and endorse these ideas.

 

In Acts, you have the disciples full of boldness and preaching to all the unbelievers - yet none of them warn of eternal torment. What a devastating oversight. Paul also never explicitly talks about burning in hell either (at most there's one verse that says "day of destruction" or something). In my opinion, the concept of hell in the bible is just not consistent enough to warrant plausible belief.

 

As for wondering "what happens if you're wrong", what cured that for me was continually researching the claims of christianity and the bible. Just piling up more and more damning evidence. Read books and watch lectures by Bart Ehrman, Sam Harris, etc.

[amateur]

It really is a normal stage for a lot of people. Give it time.

 

If you are truly suffering from depression, either get professional help if it's hurting your daily life, or you do say you have friends and family who are not believers and not upset by hell?  Please, if you can, talk to some of those friends and family members about what's bothering you.  Talk it out with them.

 

Being on this website helps, and it's nice knowing there are others out there who believe as you do, but I think it would be better for you to speak in person to any friend or family member who can be sympathetic and helpful.  Of course, there is also a lot to read on this site of many people who have experienced exactly what you are going through now.  Read all you can on that, too.  Maybe you can show some of this to a friend to start a good discussion with them?  Show them one of the posts questioning hell or saying why hell isn't real, and ask them what they think and why.  

 

Good luck to you!  Keep reading and learning and posting whatever comes into your mind!

[Brother Jeff]

What you are going through is a normal part of deconversion. As others have said, it will pass. Though religious fears can feel very real and powerful, they are in fact baseless. I wrote about this subject not long ago.

 

http://religionisbullshit.me/thinking-through-religious-fears/

 

Hope that helps. Hang in there. You will get through this and find freedom!

[seeker001]

Be gentle with yourself, your doubt and concern is normal. Wounds take time to heal, and what most don't seem to understand that just because something may be understood from the logical point of view does not mean the emotional side understands. You are going through the process of evaluating the legitamacy of your prior and current beliefs from the emotional perspective.

 

Give it time and please be patient with yourself. You are a good individual and the fact that you are concerned about whether or not your are doing the right thing speaks well about your character. 

[AriTheApostate]

Hi Folks,

 

I have been struggling with depression because of my fear of going to Hell.  I know the Bible makes no sense but part of me still believes the Absolute Fear of eternal damnation that it offers.

 

E.g. I worry about if I am wrong!  I know there are large numbers of other relgions and I even have friends and family who have no problem not having a belief why is it just me that seams to be so afraid of Hell!

 

Can someone encourage me this is normal.  I have been an Athiest for around 4 months now and the last 2 months have been great.  But when my girlfriend asked about the Big Bang the whole fear of what If I have got it all wrong and God does exist has put awful terror into me.

I completely understand where you coming from. I've always had that fear from being baptized early in my life. If it's any help it seems when i start to understand the universe my fears seem to dissipate. Also I find that art and music helps take a worried mind off things.

[4EverFree]

Hello Monkeyman

Though I defected and moved away 17 years ago, I come from Portadown so not too far away from you.  Not sure what church you attended or where you learned of hell originally but I know that some churches in Norn Iron still do a great job of instilling a traumatizing fear of hell and I’m similarly vulnerable to this issue.  I don’t have answers as I’m still going through it myself, and I often feel like I’m moving forward only to rebound backwards again but overall, there’s enough evidence on this board to suggest that it is possible to get beyond this fear by actively concentrating on learning and discussing things.  At least that’s the route I’m following ‘in faith’.  It did also help me to find a counselor to speak with who had come out of religion herself and just understood where I was coming from. 

From a fellow survivor…

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Hello Monkeyman

Though I defected and moved away 17 years ago, I come from Portadown so not too far away from you.  Not sure what church you attended or where you learned of hell originally but I know that some churches in Norn Iron still do a great job of instilling a traumatizing fear of hell and I’m similarly vulnerable to this issue.  I don’t have answers as I’m still going through it myself, and I often feel like I’m moving forward only to rebound backwards again but overall, there’s enough evidence on this board to suggest that it is possible to get beyond this fear by actively concentrating on learning and discussing things.  At least that’s the route I’m following ‘in faith’.  It did also help me to find a counselor to speak with who had come out of religion herself and just understood where I was coming from. 

From a fellow survivor…

 

Oh my god!  Portadown is just up the street from Carrickfergus!

[sarahw]

Well, I'll admit. Being born a female has given me at least this one advantage. It was easy for me to not go back. Once I realized that even if that God was real, he is not one I would be able to please, and even if I could I would hate myself for what I had to do to accomplish that feat, and that even if I endured all that, that this God would yet still count me as second class to a man for all my efforts. Then I realized that if I stayed in this rut as my mother did that my daughters would suffer the same, and when my aunt told me that all this is because woman is the "crescendo" of creation, I realized that my son would also suffer a feeling of having to "sacrifice himself for her as christ loved the church" one day when he chose such a deluded female to marry. It is a death cult. It enslaves women and men alike in a co-dependant dysfunctional fear driven mob. There is no fear but fear itself.

[Lilith666]

Well, I'll admit. Being born a female has given me at least this one advantage. It was easy for me to not go back. Once I realized that even if that God was real, he is not one I would be able to please, and even if I could I would hate myself for what I had to do to accomplish that feat, and that even if I endured all that, that this God would yet still count me as second class to a man for all my efforts. Then I realized that if I stayed in this rut as my mother did that my daughters would suffer the same, and when my aunt told me that all this is because woman is the "crescendo" of creation, I realized that my son would also suffer a feeling of having to "sacrifice himself for her as christ loved the church" one day when he chose such a deluded female to marry. It is a death cult. It enslaves women and men alike in a co-dependant dysfunctional fear driven mob. There is no fear but fear itself.

When I began to read the bible more, and not just what the church fed its congregation, women's role in relation to men upset me. It didn't occur to me until recently that the cult limits men as well. It stuffs them into a leadership role regardless of whether they are cut out for that responsibility, claiming that the holy spirit will empower them to do god's will. (I despise that escape route.) Paul places a huge burden on men when he compares them to Jesus and wives to the "bride of Christ."