I Am Not Ashamed

[chrisstavrous]

Shame is the technique used by many religions today to control and conform people into the ideologies of it's leaders, to force them to a strict adherence to a religious law that can not change a persons real problems. Shame suppresses the problem making it look like it's dealt with but when you peel back the layers the problem is still there.

 

The shame I used to have when I was a christian is now becoming a distant memory, which leads me to believe that shame is nothing more than a form of emotional abuse that people teach us when we are young and used to control peoples actions and thoughts the way they want.

 

Although I still do and think things that are bad it is not shame that's left to run the show, I have found hope in my ability to change my behaviour and mind by just being intellectually honest with myself that I can change.

[oddnes]

It is exactly as you say.  I have been of this opinion for decades.  Faith is abuse.  I wish they would treat religion like the filthy pornography it is and and mandate globally that only those 18 and over can attend.  Anyone of the misconception of this shaming as a form of decent child rearing should be arrested and fixed like a filthy animal.  And anyone exposing children to this filth should be known as a predator and kept away from all children.

 

I wish my parents had been jailed.  In America it is the old Ku Klux Klan mentality white psychos that keep this garbage going.  AKA Fox news fans.  But all religions are hate based.  Hate of humanity.  To the point of insanity.

 

Did you know that good old "Utah" (Mormon Mecca) is the most suicidal state in America?  Wonder why.....  Could it be???  Abhorrent parenting?

 

I suppose my stance on religion became solid at some point after reflecting on a conversation as a freshman I had with the one Muslim girl in my high school, years later.  She was telling me how she feared that her father would send her back to the middle east to have parts of her vagina cut out.......  I at the time..........  Was like oh, nobody does that...  Don't worry about that...  It was a year or two older than that when I realized that somebody had all ready genitally mutilated me. 

 

Religious people are sick.  Evil. Abusers.

[Mutantmoose]

Another Davisite posting! Good to see.

 

Shame is a form of emotional abuse. There is a mentality of punishment and inflicting suffering as a means to do good. People really believe that a person must suffer to become a better person. It's a sickness that infects so much of our society.

 

The one time we should feel ashamed is when we HAVE inflicted hurt on another. I wonder if some folks instead choose a kind of cognitive dissonance where they instead inflict pain upon others to ease the pain in their own heart.

[oddnes]

Another Davisite posting! Good to see.

 

are you a local, or an import.....?

 

I prefer the name Davisickian.  Speaking of shame.......  Davis.  Home of Tobacco Nazism.  And the toad tunnel.

 

The reason I ask is if you have experience with the Christian Cults of Davis.  Of which there are many odd ones.  I got dirt if you ever want to know, and could send you to a few local web sights that would interest no body else on this site.  Mostly just stuff to dumbfound and amuse.

[WaitingInfinity]

I struggle with the remains of shame and guilt from Christianity.

 

It works its way inside your head until it's all twisted up inside, just like a heartworm in an animal. And it slowly kills you unless you get the antidote. Even when the reason for shame and pain are gone, the remnants of the disease still lurk inside you.

 

I have to learn that I am not ashamed to be myself. That I'm not ashamed to speak out against BS. That I am not ashamed to live my life to the fullest and laugh at every moment I can. That I'm not ashamed to embrace what could be and what has been.

[oddnes]

oh yes,

 

And I totally agreed with the rest, or at least fully the first part, of what you said.  It is sad, but true.  And my point too is that it is just abuse.  And maybe it is specifically "shaming" by someone for an act, or "self-induced shame as a result of a conditioned response" due to horrid mental abuse.

 

The second part I will have to ponder more before responding.  I'm not sure if I agree, or not.  But I may, or not.  i need to read it again later.

[oddnes]

I struggle with the remains of shame and guilt from Christianity.

 

It works its way inside your head until it's all twisted up inside, just like a heartworm in an animal. And it slowly kills you unless you get the antidote. Even when the reason for shame and pain are gone, the remnants of the disease still lurk inside you.

 

I have to learn that I am not ashamed to be myself. That I'm not ashamed to speak out against BS. That I am not ashamed to live my life to the fullest and laugh at every moment I can. That I'm not ashamed to embrace what could be and what has been.

 

I have found in life most things are like this.  It seems like life is just a long series of losings of religions.

 

The trick i think is not picking up another cultism to solve the pain of the loss.

[chrisstavrous]

It is exactly as you say. I have been of this opinion for decades. Faith is abuse. I wish they would treat religion like the filthy pornography it is and and mandate globally that only those 18 and over can attend. Anyone of the misconception of this shaming as a form of decent child rearing should be arrested and fixed like a filthy animal. And anyone exposing children to this filth should be known as a predator and kept away from all children.

 

I wish my parents had been jailed. In America it is the old Ku Klux Klan mentality white psychos that keep this garbage going. AKA Fox news fans. But all religions are hate based. Hate of humanity. To the point of insanity.

 

Did you know that good old "Utah" (Mormon Mecca) is the most suicidal state in America? Wonder why..... Could it be??? Abhorrent parenting?

 

I suppose my stance on religion became solid at some point after reflecting on a conversation as a freshman I had with the one Muslim girl in my high school, years later. She was telling me how she feared that her father would send her back to the middle east to have parts of her vagina cut out....... I at the time.......... Was like oh, nobody does that... Don't worry about that... It was a year or two older than that when I realized that somebody had all ready genitally mutilated me.

 

Religious people are sick. Evil. Abusers.

Yeah shame is a dangerous thing, I am not even sure if it even is a normal emotional response to actions and thoughts or that it's a emotion that's taught to you by other people that corrupts the normal way to react to the actions and thoughts you have.

[greylight]

I also remember when ppl would say not to be ashamed when trying to convert people to god. Don't be ashamed of your beliefs that are no longer revlevant to culture and that discriminate against a whole group of people. They would have to pound away about that enspecially to the youth group, that "we shouldn't be ashamed when talking about god". Well, I realize now that that "shame" was just called BEING A DECENT HUMAN BEING, who didn't feel right about telling people that their life style was a sin, or that they needed jesus in their lives even if they were living as a good person. Now that I think about it, it's a truly incidous thing. As much as they preach the idea of acceptance, acceptance is actually shunned because that would include respect and acceptance of people whose lifestyles don't align with the biblegod.

[roadrunner]

shame is a natural human emotion. religion just exploits it. I secretly felt shame about my sinning and telling someone they were wrong about being gay or secular. I was taught that many will be ashamed at the great white throne judgement and I feared the shame I would feel on that day. The church took advantage of that and the shame that I felt when I sinned.

 

Now i have shame for the times I did speak up and I am not wrong for that. I have shame for the things I said and thought about people i did not understand. I hate that the church uses shame to perpetuate itself.

[oddnes]

I also remember when ppl would say not to be ashamed when trying to convert people to god. Don't be ashamed of your beliefs that are no longer revlevant to culture and that discriminate against a whole group of people. They would have to pound away about that enspecially to the youth group, that "we shouldn't be ashamed when talking about god". Well, I realize now that that "shame" was just called BEING A DECENT HUMAN BEING, who didn't feel right about telling people that their life style was a sin, or that they needed jesus in their lives even if they were living as a good person. Now that I think about it, it's a truly incidous thing. As much as they preach the idea of acceptance, acceptance is actually shunned because that would include respect and acceptance of people whose lifestyles don't align with the biblegod.

 

Dead on!  My question now.  As a longtime anti-theist.  Is attacking those who push their faith quite blatantly to their face harm?

 

 

 

The one time we should feel ashamed is when we HAVE inflicted hurt on another. I wonder if some folks instead choose a kind of cognitive dissonance where they instead inflict pain upon others to ease the pain in their own heart.

 

Am I hurting them when doing this?  That is where I have a problem agreeing with what was said here, in an earlier post.  The problem is compounded by the fact that religious people permeate so many facets of our society.  And I have often found myself in a situation where I have payed damn good money to psychiatrists, doctors, or whomever.  Only later to find out that behind their "professional" title there lies a cultist agenda.

 

I know "cultist agenda" sounds like a strong term, I just mean that they are not acting in a capacity of their profession exclusively, they are religious people at the core.  And frankly it puts my trust in any such person's ability to think into question.  And I have found there is so much discrimination by said individuals.

 

It is fairly terrifying to me, when I find out these people are members of cults in my community that I know to be bizarre organizations....  If that makes sense.  Do you know what I mean?

 

For instance I found out quite by accident that my primary Doctor believes in "intelligent Design".

[amateur]

I am in complete agreement with this.  I just heard today someone say that when teaching young children the concept of sin, to tell them that they are "disappointing Jesus."  No, oh no.

[oddnes]

shame is a natural human emotion. religion just exploits it. I secretly felt shame about my sinning and telling someone they were wrong about being gay or secular. I was taught that many will be ashamed at the great white throne judgement and I feared the shame I would feel on that day. The church took advantage of that and the shame that I felt when I sinned.

 

Now i have shame for the times I did speak up and I am not wrong for that. I have shame for the things I said and thought about people i did not understand. I hate that the church uses shame to perpetuate itself.

 

what you said reminded me of a rally I attended at the California capital some years back after a law was passed to stop gay marriage.  Christian groups were across the street yelling and holding their own rally, saying things like "we only want to discriminate against you because we love you!", "we don't want you to burn for eternity in hell!"

 

I am not gay.  But at one point I yelled at the Christians "12 apostles!  Now thats a lot of sausage!" and every one got my drift.  The gays laughed like hell.  And the Christian pusses soured.  I was insinuating that maybe Jesus was a little too friendly with men.  Just to be a jerk.  Is it harm for me to do these things?  This is what I am wondering. 

 

I can think of many other situations, particularly dealing with friends who have been horridly abused by religion, yet still cling to it.  I suggest they leave it behind.  And sometimes it gets heated.  But I am talking about people who try to commit suicide and such because of this torment.  But the problem often is that not only the family members who feed them this stuff, but often psychiatric or social workers who are religious get them back to the bible.  And the torment that follows.

[chrisstavrous]

The religious mentality and it's brainwashing techniques are ingrained into modern society, even though my family was not christian they were by the default brainwashing done to them by a christian society.

[xliar]

It is exactly as you say.  I have been of this opinion for decades.  Faith is abuse.  I wish they would treat religion like the filthy pornography it is and and mandate globally that only those 18 and over can attend.  Anyone of the misconception of this shaming as a form of decent child rearing should be arrested and fixed like a filthy animal.  And anyone exposing children to this filth should be known as a predator and kept away from all children.

 

I wish my parents had been jailed.  In America it is the old Ku Klux Klan mentality white psychos that keep this garbage going.  AKA Fox news fans.  But all religions are hate based.  Hate of humanity.  To the point of insanity.

 

Did you know that good old "Utah" (Mormon Mecca) is the most suicidal state in America?  Wonder why.....  Could it be???  Abhorrent parenting?

 

I suppose my stance on religion became solid at some point after reflecting on a conversation as a freshman I had with the one Muslim girl in my high school, years later.  She was telling me how she feared that her father would send her back to the middle east to have parts of her vagina cut out.......  I at the time..........  Was like oh, nobody does that...  Don't worry about that...  It was a year or two older than that when I realized that somebody had all ready genitally mutilated me. 

 

Religious people are sick.  Evil. Abusers.

18 and older! Excellent idea! That would circumvent a whole lot of bull shit. But I take offense to your filthy animal comparison. Most animals, filthy or otherwise, do a pretty good job of protecting their young. Personaly, I'm not resentful of my folks. I think they were as victimized as children as I was, and to raise their family in the faith was simply the "culturaly correct" thing to do. I agree our society falls in the predator catagory. We spend millions, hell maybe billions on what most people would describe as wonderful Bus Ministries. Let's round up as many of these kids as we can and PROMISE them they will burn in HELL unless they get washed in the blood! verily!verily! what ever the fuck that means

[oddnes]

 

18 and older! Excellent idea! That would circumvent a whole lot of bull shit. But I take offense to your filthy animal comparison. Most animals, filthy or otherwise, do a pretty good job of protecting their young. Personaly, I'm not resentful of my folks. I think they were as victimized as children as I was, and to raise their family in the faith was simply the "culturaly correct" thing to do. I agree our society falls in the predator catagory. We spend millions, hell maybe billions on what most people would describe as wonderful Bus Ministries. Let's round up as many of these kids as we can and PROMISE them they will burn in HELL unless they get washed in the blood! verily!verily! what ever the fuck that means

 

 

I do not let my parents off that easy.  For a couple of reasons.  One they now know better and they still support that bs.  It is to such a discussing degree that grand children are monitored in their company.  Keep in mind if I did not state it, my parents are not churched.  They simply subscribe to the bs.

 

I am proud that my siblings keep the children away from these people for the most part.  I do not have kids myself.  But these people have all the facts, they choose to be ignorant.  And my parents continue to push this backwards crap to their own peril.  They don't have any religious friends, or a cult to miss.  They are racist throwbacks to the Ku Klux Kulture that constructed them.  And they are shameless.  Even to the extent that they would put me in positions as a child where I was nearly Molested as a youth by a "F-ed up" Boy scouts group, in their vanity to appear to be of the faith.  And would do nothing to protect me, in fact they chastised me for quitting the scouts because I did not want to have sex with Mormon men and boys.  Because they were business associates.

 

No excuses for abusers please, I think this is how this garbage is perpetuated in the first place.  If we let our abusers off the hook, the cycle just continues.

 

you know what I mean?

[greylight]

 

I also remember when ppl would say not to be ashamed when trying to convert people to god. Don't be ashamed of your beliefs that are no longer revlevant to culture and that discriminate against a whole group of people. They would have to pound away about that enspecially to the youth group, that "we shouldn't be ashamed when talking about god". Well, I realize now that that "shame" was just called BEING A DECENT HUMAN BEING, who didn't feel right about telling people that their life style was a sin, or that they needed jesus in their lives even if they were living as a good person. Now that I think about it, it's a truly incidous thing. As much as they preach the idea of acceptance, acceptance is actually shunned because that would include respect and acceptance of people whose lifestyles don't align with the biblegod.

 

Dead on!  My question now.  As a longtime anti-theist.  Is attacking those who push their faith quite blatantly to their face harm?

I don't think attacking their beliefs is really the way to go. This will just make them cling to their beliefs more tightly and then get even more of a martyr complex.

[xliar]

 

 

18 and older! Excellent idea! That would circumvent a whole lot of bull shit. But I take offense to your filthy animal comparison. Most animals, filthy or otherwise, do a pretty good job of protecting their young. Personaly, I'm not resentful of my folks. I think they were as victimized as children as I was, and to raise their family in the faith was simply the "culturaly correct" thing to do. I agree our society falls in the predator catagory. We spend millions, hell maybe billions on what most people would describe as wonderful Bus Ministries. Let's round up as many of these kids as we can and PROMISE them they will burn in HELL unless they get washed in the blood! verily!verily! what ever the fuck that means

 

 

I do not let my parents off that easy.  For a couple of reasons.  One they now know better and they still support that bs.  It is to such a discussing degree that grand children are monitored in their company.  Keep in mind if I did not state it, my parents are not churched.  They simply subscribe to the bs.

 

I am proud that my siblings keep the children away from these people for the most part.  I do not have kids myself.  But these people have all the facts, they choose to be ignorant.  And my parents continue to push this backwards crap to their own peril.  They don't have any religious friends, or a cult to miss.  They are racist throwbacks to the Ku Klux Kulture that constructed them.  And they are shameless.  Even to the extent that they would put me in positions as a child where I was nearly Molested as a youth by a "F-ed up" Boy scouts group, in their vanity to appear to be of the faith.  And would do nothing to protect me, in fact they chastised me for quitting the scouts because I did not want to have sex with Mormon men and boys.  Because they were business associates.

 

No excuses for abusers please, I think this is how this garbage is perpetuated in the first place.  If we let our abusers off the hook, the cycle just continues.

 

you know what I mean?

 

That sucks man, sorry you had to deal with that as a child. I don't know your age but I wonder, is there any kind of relationship with them now? 

[Toma]

It's easy to manipulate people using the shame and guilt. A heavy amount of people who are not christians unknowingly are affected by religious notions like "do bad things - life punishes you, do good things - it awards you". Sometimes shame and guilt lead to self-destruction, it's sad when poeple say "Shame on you, how could you do this or that" and in this case a person starts to dislike his personality because everyone rejects him, thus that leads to many psychological issues like depression, anxiety, fears, anger or cause of suicidical thoughts. Religion is absolutely damaging.

[Scottsman]

Religion has all the characteristics of an abusive relationship. Only difference is there is no physical abuse. It is all emotional.

 

"You are nothing.

You are worthless.

You better do as I say.

You better not be seeing anyone else.

I love you even though no one else will.

You're lucky I stick around.

Without me you are nothing."

- god

 

I used to say that god simply doesnt exist, but lately my beliefs go further than that. The idea of the god of the bible is so disgusting, that if he did actually exist, he is not worthy of worship. He is the abusive spouse.

 

Once that glass is shattered and you see religion for the abusive, manipulative cult it is, it really leaves a bad taste in your mouth and you actually feel sorry for the members. I wonder how many secretly want out but can't leave. My little brother told me he learned in school that if a woman moves out on her own and gets raped, its her own fault. She shouldn't have been without the care of a christian man. I threw up a bit in my mouth.

 

Next time jehovah's witnesses or mormons come around, i'm goin to write my number on a card and give it to the trainee. Tell them if they ever want to talk or help getting out to call. No one should be abused and enslaved. I know women who are 35 and still living at home because they didn't get married and it is unnacceptable for them to live on their own. That is the mark of a cult.

 

Religion is an abusive relationship with god as the abusive spouse.