The More I Force Unbelieve, The More I Believe

[Ranger26]

guys, i have to admit that when i try to force myself not to believe in Christianity, the more my mind response with beliefe. I tried reading all the new age spiritual books or blog posts here on the website, and I get this weird sense in my body that doesn't allow me to feel peace while doing it. When I meditate on jesus and on a power of God i do get a sense of peace and comfort.

The only thing what makes me "doubt God" is the fact that I don't want to change my life and become a "Jesus Freak", go to church, tell all my non-religious family members and friends that i am a Christian again, etc. I think what stops me from believing in Christ is my ego and pride, not my lack of "experience of God".

 

[pratt]

ranger,

 

why do you need to force yourself to unbelief?

 

why do you want to replace with other new age crap?

 

what is the reason for trying to unbelief jesus and its crap?

[Ranger26]

plus so many people have experience with God and believe so strongly, who am I to say that what they believe isn't true? It just seems like to large of a heel to clime and its easier to give in a believe...

[Ranger26]

because i feel like i don't want to be a religious guy like i used to be. however, i do get peace and confort from being one...

[Ranger26]

just part of me wants to do my own thing and live my own live, without being in a church and having to believe everything the church teaches. the other part of me say its so comforting to do so, it gives me a riderction, it gives me a sense of belonging and peace, so why trying to leave in the first place?

 

i am pretty messed up and lost...

[Ranger26]

plus so many people have experience with God and believe so strongly, who am I to say that what they believe isn't true? It just seems like to large of a heel to clime and its easier to give in a believe...

sorry for spelling mistakes guys...

[Ranger26]

when i watch this it gives me shivers and gives me such a connection with God, and it makes me feel good. I start questioning my whole deconverstion process and the only reason for leaving the church and my faith, only seems to be social pressures to be "cool" and have freedom to do my own thing, instead of being known as a "religious guy".

[Ranger26]

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=WYWDYPNX

[mymistake]

I've said it before.  My theory is that we don't have direct control over what we believe.  We are compelled to believe or not believe an idea.  We have some control over what thoughts we will dwell on.  So we can choose to explore an argument or a counter argument.  But the belief part isn't something you choose.

[amateur]

Take it easy, and take it one step at a time.

 

You say you don't want to be a Jesus Freak.  Ok, don't be that.

 

You say you don't want to backpeddle on what you've told your family and friends.  Ok, don't tell them anything while you're sorting things out for yourself.

 

Do what you're doing and believe what you believe at each stage.  None of this is a race.  You can go at any pace you want, forward or backward.  None of this is a test.  There are no right or wrong answers.  

 

Do you question anything about xianity?  Do you have questions about the bible?  About heaven and hell?  Can you find anything on this site that helps answer those questions?  You can feel free to post anything here, any questions you might have, any doubts.  You can let us know, like you did today, where you are with things.  

 

It's ok to still believe if it makes you feel settled.  It's ok to question things.  It's ok to attend church or not as you feel comfortable.  I attended church for some time, some years actually, while questioning a lot of things.  As time went on, I found I was disagreeing more and more with the sermons, and finally realized it was pointless for me to be there.  That's what I did, it was right for me.  Everybody does this differently.

 

You are still free to be yourself and have the freedom to do your own thing, while still attending church.  Nobody owns you, or your thoughts, or your actions.

 

Good luck, and see if you can think about some of these questions, and what others have asked you.  Let us know where you are with things.   

[Ravenstar]

You've brought up a really good point.

 

I can only tell you how it was for me. I believed... but I had questions, I studied... i practiced, I tried to develop my own relationship with spirituality. I did, I opened my mind to what other people believed... I learned

 

I never went into this to disprove anything, it was just my journey to be comfortable with myself, my thoughts and my life, and I've always sought truth... I wanted to find out the truth, for myself.

 

I've been learning and growing for a long time. I've been questioning for over 30 years. (it's taken a LONG time to get where I am.. and I, too, went the new age route at one time) I no longer believe in the christian god - but I didn't choose that, nor was that my goal, it was a natural outgrowth of my own education and experience. Nor am I a 'hard' atheist.... I've just become comfortable with being able to say... in a general sense, "I don't know" and be comfortable with that. I've become comfortable with the realization that I change, all the time... and so does my view and relationship with reality. That's for me, though... it's not my place to say what another's comfort zone is.

 

You are where you are... and here (this site) you will not be expected to be anything or anywhere but that. We may challenge assumptions and bad logic, or false claims that religion makes... but YOU, who you are and where you are... that's entirely up to you.

 

It's not a choice though... believing or not believing. That is the one thing I am certain of. The other thing I am certain of is that pursuit of truth is a good thing.

 

Welcome!

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I am with Amateur and Ravenstar on this.  You are on a journey; but the goal is not to reach any particular destination.  The goal here is simply to experience the journey.  

 

Where's the sense in trying to label yourself?  If this belief brings you peace, hold it; if that belief lets you sleep at night, keep it.  The opposite is also plausible: if those beliefs cause you doubt, or bring about fear, then get rid of them.  You don't have to have all the answers, now or ever.  There are still things that I haven't figured out; and some things that I don't even know that I haven't figured out.

 

One thing I've noticed is that many christians and newly deconverted doubters are uncomfortable inside their own skin.  I know I was.  For now, figure out some way of being at peace with yourself; you can sort out the details later.

[florduh]

You're a believer, at least for now. One can't force himself to believe or not believe. In my case, I came to a point where I simply could no longer believe because I had learned too many failures of the Bible and the religious doctrines. Christianity had no evidence going for it, didn't match reality and didn't stand up to logic. It didn't make any sense. Belief of such a thing relies purely on emotion. Keep studying and either firm up your faith (you'll have to ignore certain things) or accept that it is just one of many mythologies.

[Geezer]

Faith, according to the bible, is belief without evidence. That is the foundational doctrine for Christianity. Since evidence isn’t required virtually anything becomes possible. Deities, angels, demons, heaven, hell and miracles become both believable and widely accepted as true. Acceptance of this mystical spiritual realm mandates widespread indoctrination of the adherents. In my mind I can easily equate this level of indoctrination with the faithful having been hypnotized. In other words, the faithful have voluntarily relinquished control of their minds to another entity.  That is why many scholars classify Christianity as a cult because it exhibits all the attributes commonly associated with a cult.

 

Getting away from this environment requires a concentrated deliberate effort. The key to being deprogrammed is education. Superstition must be replaced with knowledge, facts, and evidence that are based on reality, science, logic, and reason.

 

The first step for most people is to acknowledge they have been indoctrinated/brainwashed. Until that reality is accepted it isn’t likely the rest of the required steps can be initiated.

[Joshpantera]

You're a believer, at least for now. One can't force himself to believe or not believe. In my case, I came to a point where I simply could no longer believe because I had learned too many failures of the Bible and the religious doctrines. Christianity had no evidence going for it, didn't match reality and didn't stand up to logic. It didn't make any sense. Belief of such a thing relies purely on emotion. Keep studying and either firm up your faith (you'll have to ignore certain things) or accept that it is just one of many mythologies.

This may be the best post I've ever read on exC.....

[xliar]

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=WYWDYPNX

 That guy is good! That chic aint too hard to look at either but that guy is damn good, whoever he is. Man I can understand the shivers part, but I don't know about the god connection thing. I guess I've seen too many kids in Sudan or Somalia with flies buzzing around their eyes.

[Ranger26]

guys i am sorry for ranting like that the other night. I am dealing with a lot of s**t now and was going through a rough night.
Thanks for all your input and all your help. I wish i could be a freethinker again like i once was. I left the church for 4 years but came back 2 years ago. I felt more at peace and more comfortable while being out of it, but i can't come back to the same mindset again. I don't know what to do...

[Joshpantera]

Why not experiment with trying your hardest to prove to all of us here, and in doing so proving to yourself along with us, that the Bible is absolutely true. Is it a firm foundation worthy of belief?

 

Why not start at the beginning and try proving to us the foundational truth of the 6 day creation account and see how that unfolds... 

[seeker001]

As hard as this may be but try focusing less on the labels. Keep reading on learning what you can about your belief and the world around you. Do not punish yourself for what you believe, this is your personal journey and no one else.

 

There are some things the Christians say makes sense I take with me, and everything else I chuck aside. I've always considered spirituality to be a very personal thing, neither right nor wrong provided one is not claiming "Truth," "fact" or "The one Way to [insert whatever]." When one starts asserting from a position of authority than that is open season.

 

(I know this probably isn't kosher on this site, but my intent is only to help Ranger.  Here goes)

Even if your path leads you back to Christianity don't punish yourself for it. Not everything in Christianity is toxic, you can always pick and chose what elements you believe and follow your own spiritual path. Gnostic Christianity seems to be open to this interpretation, they believe that the path to Christ/God/Enlightenment is through yourself. Admittedly I have only done light reading on this (on my list to explore more in depth), so do your own homework as you should anyways. They have less than flattering things to say about canon and the path Christianity went down http://gnosticschristians.com/

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlintro.html

 

The only reason why I suggest reading up on the gnostics is to show another option if you are really feeling so torn yet feel drawn to find some meaning through Jesus. But question what you read, and as long as you do not allow others to dictate your thinking or become ridged than you are a free thinker. One thing that is clear, there is something about Christianity that you need to work through before you either accept it or let it go, maybe this can help. Especially seeing why these people disagree with the traditional doctrine and how Christianity took its current, ridged form. The censorship and destruction of any alternative point of view.

 

People change and you have every right to change your mind on a given subject. I wish you the best of luck, keep reading and learning, because knowledge is the path to the light. 

 

edit:

I don't think you'll ever find Truth with a capital "T" through spirituality, only a philosophical way to view the world. If you are looking for Truth, turn to science and your own observations of the physical world.  A literal interpretation of religion (and I'll go as far as to say any religion) will fall flat on its rear end. While science is not perfect, it is the closest humans will get.

[chrisstavrous]

Why not experiment with trying your hardest to prove to all of us here, and in doing so proving to yourself along with us, that the Bible is absolutely true. Is it a firm foundation worthy of belief?

 

Why not start at the beginning and try proving to us the foundational truth of the 6 day creation account and see how that unfolds...

This is an excellent idea, why don't you just tell us your brand of truth and try to convince us of christianity as you see it. Go ahead defend the last of your faith and see what happens.

[mymistake]

 

Why not experiment with trying your hardest to prove to all of us here, and in doing so proving to yourself along with us, that the Bible is absolutely true. Is it a firm foundation worthy of belief?

 

Why not start at the beginning and try proving to us the foundational truth of the 6 day creation account and see how that unfolds...

This is an excellent idea, why don't you just tell us your brand of truth and try to convince us of christianity as you see it. Go ahead defend the last of your faith and see what happens.

 

 

 

I think it is a good idea but perhaps the Spirituality section isn't the best place for it.  Not the Lion's Den either.  Perhaps start a new thread and let other people know up front that it's an exercise so we keep it all nice and polite.   The Colosseum is the place for serious and on-topic debate.

[Ranger26]

thanks for the reply guys. I think i'll just read up more on the forums and see where it leads me

[Ranger26]

As hard as this may be but try focusing less on the labels. Keep reading on learning what you can about your belief and the world around you. Do not punish yourself for what you believe, this is your personal journey and no one else.

 

There are some things the Christians say makes sense I take with me, and everything else I chuck aside. I've always considered spirituality to be a very personal thing, neither right nor wrong provided one is not claiming "Truth," "fact" or "The one Way to [insert whatever]." When one starts asserting from a position of authority than that is open season.

 

(I know this probably isn't kosher on this site, but my intent is only to help Ranger.  Here goes)

Even if your path leads you back to Christianity don't punish yourself for it. Not everything in Christianity is toxic, you can always pick and chose what elements you believe and follow your own spiritual path. Gnostic Christianity seems to be open to this interpretation, they believe that the path to Christ/God/Enlightenment is through yourself. Admittedly I have only done light reading on this (on my list to explore more in depth), so do your own homework as you should anyways. They have less than flattering things to say about canon and the path Christianity went down http://gnosticschristians.com/

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlintro.html

 

The only reason why I suggest reading up on the gnostics is to show another option if you are really feeling so torn yet feel drawn to find some meaning through Jesus. But question what you read, and as long as you do not allow others to dictate your thinking or become ridged than you are a free thinker. One thing that is clear, there is something about Christianity that you need to work through before you either accept it or let it go, maybe this can help. Especially seeing why these people disagree with the traditional doctrine and how Christianity took its current, ridged form. The censorship and destruction of any alternative point of view.

 

People change and you have every right to change your mind on a given subject. I wish you the best of luck, keep reading and learning, because knowledge is the path to the light. 

 

edit:

I don't think you'll ever find Truth with a capital "T" through spirituality, only a philosophical way to view the world. If you are looking for Truth, turn to science and your own observations of the physical world.  A literal interpretation of religion (and I'll go as far as to say any religion) will fall flat on its rear end. While science is not perfect, it is the closest humans will get.

thank you very much for a thoughtful answer! might come back and keep you posted on where i end up! )))

[DrNo]

One thing to keep in mind is the role of emotions here. A lot of people do not question their beliefs seriously because it is too emotionally difficult. It could mean the end of relationships, the reality of wasted money, time, choices, etc. It might mean that they are truly going to die and stop existing one day, and never see lost loved ones again. The emotional difficulty of questioning one's beliefs can make some people outright ignore logic.

 

It sounds like for you, the hard part is not so much the logic, but the emotional component. Believing is easier in many ways. So my question for you is, which makes you feel better about yourself? Believing in an all-loving God for which there is absolutely no hard proof (and countless contradictions in scripture), or being honest enough to say "I don't know if there is a God, and until it reveals itself to me I don't see any reason to pretend there is one." In short, do you feel better about yourself allowing yourself to be comforted by a likely fiction, or do you feel better about yourself embracing knowable reality?

 

For me, I had to get to a point where pursuing truth was more important than emotional comfort. If God was true, then that truth would come out. Over a year later and he has yet to show up. So why continue to wait? 

[falemon]

plus so many people have experience with God and believe so strongly, who am I to say that what they believe isn't true? It just seems like to large of a heel to clime and its easier to give in a believe...

Introspect a little.

 

Understand that we are (unfortunately) emotion driven beings. We often think of emotions only as feelings but they are in fact a lot more.

 

Emotions denote mental states. In each state your brain has direct access to different memories, thought processes and instincts. You can access most memories in all states but because doing so is so difficult our emotions cause us to behave differently depending on the specific emotion.

 

I would suggest exploring your thoughts and feelings by just writing them down. Write whatever comes to mind. When you feel yourself drawing towards a particular thought, explore it and see what your mind reveals to you.

 

That, and all the other suggestions people have given.