bornagainathiest Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Presenting us with two possibilities- 1. God created satan. That would be truly despicable. This clearly casts God as being immoral. satan is a created being. he chose to be evil through his own free will choices. God does not create evil. evil results from the actions of free willed beings. Correct. God did not create evil. God is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Presenting us with two possibilities- 1. God created satan. That would be truly despicable. This clearly casts God as being immoral. satan is a created being. he chose to be evil through his own free will choices. God does not create evil. evil results from the actions of free willed beings. Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV) 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 David L, Satan has tricked you by writing the Bible and pawning it off as God's work. Remember, “Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:14). That's why the Bible has God doing such things as committing or encouraging genocide, stoning people to death for doing things like picking up sticks on a Saturday, making the owning and beating of slaves lawful, encouraging the beating of disobedient children with rods, and filling people of fears of being tortured forever for not believing unverifiable and dubious metaphysical ideas. You have doubted the divine origin of the scriptures of Islam, Zoroastrianism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Manichaeism, Mandaeism, Mormonism and a host of other faiths. You have agreed with the Catholic consensus on the New Testament, thus denying the word of God in the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, the Gospel of Thomas, and numerous other holy books written by Christians. How many times have you asked the question "Did God really say?" Ex-C is a bad place to evangelize btw-- "The unbeliever may be taught to believe, but not the Julian the Apostate to return” -- John Ruskin. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1Jn 4:1) Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. (1Co 12:3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Clay, listen up! "Jesus is Lord." There, I must have been speaking by the Holy Spirit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Neither the serpent nor satan (they are not the same; read your bible.) can hold a candle to the powers of deception that are used by Xtians every day. Good gawd, Xtians not only deceive gullible people afraid of death; they also deceive themselves. And god allows all of it to happen. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 "But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ." - The Apostle Paul (2 Corinthians 11:3) Looking back to Genesis 3 it's very interesting to see how the devil worked his deception on Eve... exactly how he still works today...!! 1. "Did God really say.." - First he questions what God had said, causing Eve to doubt God's Word.. So today the Scriptures are challenged, and we are made to doubt their authenticity and reliability.. 2. "You surely will not die!" - The blatant Lie that actually, on the face of it, seemed believable... Again we find today that the truth of Scripture is out-rightly contradicted, in intellectual and philosophical terms that almost seem believable.. 3. "For God knows..." - The suggestion is made that God's motives are not pure.. Today also God is slandered and His motives made to look corrupt... 4. "...the tree was desirable to make one wise." - In buying Satan's lie, the impression given was that this was a wise choice.. And so the same temptation is made to those who follow Jesus, to come out from the state of simple child-like dependence and trust in God (subjection to authority), and become your own god...(do what you want - think for yourself).. Adam and Eve didn't have the power of Christ's resurrection to save them from the deception, so why do they get punished and subsequently every person who ever lives after them? But now we are expected to be able to protect ourselves through the power of the cross and our devotion to Christ. Looks like we are doing all the work, and not Christ. Seems that the cards were stacked against us from the beginning! We are saved through our decision to accept Christ, not through any work we do. It's free. Is everyone in the Old Testament in Hell? Heaven? Purgatory? There is no option in the OT to make a decision to accept Christ. How do you explain that? Nobody in the Old Testament is "saved". BTW, OC we can go back to the freewill discussion and refute the decision part. God determined beforehand who would be saved. There is no decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Looking back to Genesis 3 it's very interesting to see how the devil worked his deception on Eve... exactly how he still works today...!! 1. "Did God really say.." - First he questions what God had said, causing Eve to doubt God's Word.. So today the Scriptures are challenged, and we are made to doubt their authenticity and reliability.. There is no mention of Satan anywhere in the Book of Genesis.Satan is God's servant in the Old Testament. If you think otherwise, please provide a single verse from the Old Testament that identifies Satan as disobeying a command from God. Out of context imaginings don't count, I'd like to see an actual verse that says Satan is the enemy of God. satan is the adversary of God. Adversaries of God disobey Him. Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?" (Zec 3:1-2) Christianity contradicts the scripture of the Old Testament. No it doesn't. Isn't this the same God that regretted what he created, decided to fix it by flooding it, knowing ahead of time that his solution wouldn't work? Because God knew evil would exist does not make Him evil. You're promoting Christian mythology.There is no mention of Satan in Genesis, nor any mention of a devil. Christians have invented their own version of God, one that pleases their senses. The serpent in Genesis was the adversary, which is exactly what the Bible refers to satan being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted November 27, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2013 David L, Satan has tricked you by writing the Bible and pawning it off as God's work. Remember, “Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:14). That's why the Bible has God doing such things as committing or encouraging genocide, stoning people to death for doing things like picking up sticks on a Saturday, making the owning and beating of slaves lawful, encouraging the beating of disobedient children with rods, and filling people of fears of being tortured forever for not believing unverifiable and dubious metaphysical ideas. You have doubted the divine origin of the scriptures of Islam, Zoroastrianism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Manichaeism, Mandaeism, Mormonism and a host of other faiths. You have agreed with the Catholic consensus on the New Testament, thus denying the word of God in the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, the Gospel of Thomas, and numerous other holy books written by Christians. How many times have you asked the question "Did God really say?" Ex-C is a bad place to evangelize btw-- "The unbeliever may be taught to believe, but not the Julian the Apostate to return” -- John Ruskin. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1Jn 4:1) Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. (1Co 12:3) You totally failed to address the points in this post (as always). Quoting Scripture, particularly irrelevant Scripture, does not make for adequate dialog. Please start answering questions and addressing points raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 David L, Satan has tricked you by writing the Bible and pawning it off as God's work. Remember, “Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:14). That's why the Bible has God doing such things as committing or encouraging genocide, stoning people to death for doing things like picking up sticks on a Saturday, making the owning and beating of slaves lawful, encouraging the beating of disobedient children with rods, and filling people of fears of being tortured forever for not believing unverifiable and dubious metaphysical ideas. You have doubted the divine origin of the scriptures of Islam, Zoroastrianism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Manichaeism, Mandaeism, Mormonism and a host of other faiths. You have agreed with the Catholic consensus on the New Testament, thus denying the word of God in the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, the Gospel of Thomas, and numerous other holy books written by Christians. How many times have you asked the question "Did God really say?" Ex-C is a bad place to evangelize btw-- "The unbeliever may be taught to believe, but not the Julian the Apostate to return” -- John Ruskin. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1Jn 4:1) Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. (1Co 12:3) You totally failed to address the points in this post (as always). Quoting Scripture, particularly irrelevant Scripture, does not make for adequate dialog. Please start answering questions and addressing points raised. It did answer the primary point. Just because you don't think so does not mean it doesn't. I'm under no obligation to answer every question raised or asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted November 27, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2013 Christianity contradicts the scripture of the Old Testament. No it doesn't. Can you demonstrate how rather than just disagreeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted November 27, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2013 I'm under no obligation to answer every question raised or asked. Thank you for clearing that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 "But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ." - The Apostle Paul (2 Corinthians 11:3) Looking back to Genesis 3 it's very interesting to see how the devil worked his deception on Eve... exactly how he still works today...!! 1. "Did God really say.." - First he questions what God had said, causing Eve to doubt God's Word.. So today the Scriptures are challenged, and we are made to doubt their authenticity and reliability.. 2. "You surely will not die!" - The blatant Lie that actually, on the face of it, seemed believable... Again we find today that the truth of Scripture is out-rightly contradicted, in intellectual and philosophical terms that almost seem believable.. 3. "For God knows..." - The suggestion is made that God's motives are not pure.. Today also God is slandered and His motives made to look corrupt... 4. "...the tree was desirable to make one wise." - In buying Satan's lie, the impression given was that this was a wise choice.. And so the same temptation is made to those who follow Jesus, to come out from the state of simple child-like dependence and trust in God (subjection to authority), and become your own god...(do what you want - think for yourself).. Adam and Eve didn't have the power of Christ's resurrection to save them from the deception, so why do they get punished and subsequently every person who ever lives after them? But now we are expected to be able to protect ourselves through the power of the cross and our devotion to Christ. Looks like we are doing all the work, and not Christ. Seems that the cards were stacked against us from the beginning! We are saved through our decision to accept Christ, not through any work we do. It's free. Is everyone in the Old Testament in Hell? Heaven? Purgatory? There is no option in the OT to make a decision to accept Christ. How do you explain that? Nobody in the Old Testament is "saved". BTW, OC we can go back to the freewill discussion and refute the decision part. God determined beforehand who would be saved. There is no decision. Storm, Please look up Genesis 5:24 and Hebrews 11: 5 & 6 and then ask OrdinaryClay how he thinks Enoch was saved - without having faith in Jesus Christ. Oh and do tell him not to add anything to scripture when answering, ok? Thanks, BAA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 "But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ." - The Apostle Paul (2 Corinthians 11:3) Looking back to Genesis 3 it's very interesting to see how the devil worked his deception on Eve... exactly how he still works today...!! 1. "Did God really say.." - First he questions what God had said, causing Eve to doubt God's Word.. So today the Scriptures are challenged, and we are made to doubt their authenticity and reliability.. 2. "You surely will not die!" - The blatant Lie that actually, on the face of it, seemed believable... Again we find today that the truth of Scripture is out-rightly contradicted, in intellectual and philosophical terms that almost seem believable.. 3. "For God knows..." - The suggestion is made that God's motives are not pure.. Today also God is slandered and His motives made to look corrupt... 4. "...the tree was desirable to make one wise." - In buying Satan's lie, the impression given was that this was a wise choice.. And so the same temptation is made to those who follow Jesus, to come out from the state of simple child-like dependence and trust in God (subjection to authority), and become your own god...(do what you want - think for yourself).. Adam and Eve didn't have the power of Christ's resurrection to save them from the deception, so why do they get punished and subsequently every person who ever lives after them? But now we are expected to be able to protect ourselves through the power of the cross and our devotion to Christ. Looks like we are doing all the work, and not Christ. Seems that the cards were stacked against us from the beginning! We are saved through our decision to accept Christ, not through any work we do. It's free. Is everyone in the Old Testament in Hell? Heaven? Purgatory? There is no option in the OT to make a decision to accept Christ. How do you explain that? Nobody in the Old Testament is "saved". BTW, OC we can go back to the freewill discussion and refute the decision part. God determined beforehand who would be saved. There is no decision. Storm, Please look up Genesis 5:24 and Hebrews 11: 5 & 6 and then ask OrdinaryClay how he thinks Enoch was saved - without having faith in Jesus Christ. Oh and do tell him not to add anything to scripture when answering, ok? Thanks, BAA Or don't bother Storm. Clay's not under any obligation to answer any question put to him. Got that? He can post what he likes and ask what he likes and quote what he likes, but when it comes to being held accountable for anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I'm under no obligation to answer every question raised or asked. Thank you for clearing that up. Hey Florduh! Since Clay's under no obligation to answer every question put to him, why don't you ask him what ratio of questions he intends to answer? 1 in 5? 1 in 20? 1 in a million? . . . Oops! He's not under any obligation to answer your questions either... is he? Oh shuggles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 It did answer the primary point. Just because you don't think so does not mean it doesn't. I'm under no obligation to answer every question raised or asked. You can't answer any of the tough questions. It's not about obligation. You don't have the power to give a real answer because your religion doesn't have answers. It only has slogans. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 "Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV) 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." WHAT DO SAY TO THAT CLAY? PROBABLY NOTHING, LIKE ALWAYS WHEN YOU ARE PINNED TO THE WALL. Did god create evil as the bible said or did god not create evil and the bible is wrong? bill 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I'm under no obligation to answer every question raised or asked. Well,if you want to be taken seriously, I'm afraid your only choices are to address the actual questions and issues raised or leave us the hell alone. What could you possibly hope to gain by coming into a room of people who are smarter than you, who have studied far more than you have, and who can make lucid arguments while you simply fall back on giving non-answers using the only book that you have read (apparently) which is also a book full of fiction, distortions, and bold-faced lies? We are giving you every opportunity to show some intelligence but you keep fumbling the ball. You are unwilling to learn and you have nothing that is informative with which to teach. So, again, what do you hope to gain by being here? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I thought Satan's one aim was to make us fat and out of shape. Too bad for him there was no cheesecake of the knowledge of good and evil. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 The Genesis account is an allegory of growing up and the loss of innocence. Just that and nothing more. Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 David L, Satan has tricked you by writing the Bible and pawning it off as God's work. Remember, “Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:14). That's why the Bible has God doing such things as committing or encouraging genocide, stoning people to death for doing things like picking up sticks on a Saturday, making the owning and beating of slaves lawful, encouraging the beating of disobedient children with rods, and filling people of fears of being tortured forever for not believing unverifiable and dubious metaphysical ideas. You have doubted the divine origin of the scriptures of Islam, Zoroastrianism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Manichaeism, Mandaeism, Mormonism and a host of other faiths. You have agreed with the Catholic consensus on the New Testament, thus denying the word of God in the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, the Gospel of Thomas, and numerous other holy books written by Christians. How many times have you asked the question "Did God really say?" Ex-C is a bad place to evangelize btw-- "The unbeliever may be taught to believe, but not the Julian the Apostate to return” -- John Ruskin. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1Jn 4:1) Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. (1Co 12:3) This does not address the problem of Satan writing the Bible. If Satan wrote the Bible then quoting Bible verses would be of no avail for they would be the word of Satan. See? I've had over thirty years of thinking about demon attacks in the mind. If magic is real then people are screwed. The only solution is to wake up and realize there is no evidence of God, Satan, demons or angels but there is plenty of evidence that they are all fiction. (Oh by the way, Jesus is Lord. I can say Jesus is Lord as often as I wish. My message must be from the Holy Spirit unless the Bible is wrong.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 27, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2013 David L, Satan has tricked you by writing the Bible and pawning it off as God's work. Remember, “Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:14). That's why the Bible has God doing such things as committing or encouraging genocide, stoning people to death for doing things like picking up sticks on a Saturday, making the owning and beating of slaves lawful, encouraging the beating of disobedient children with rods, and filling people of fears of being tortured forever for not believing unverifiable and dubious metaphysical ideas. You have doubted the divine origin of the scriptures of Islam, Zoroastrianism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Manichaeism, Mandaeism, Mormonism and a host of other faiths. You have agreed with the Catholic consensus on the New Testament, thus denying the word of God in the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, the Gospel of Thomas, and numerous other holy books written by Christians. How many times have you asked the question "Did God really say?" Ex-C is a bad place to evangelize btw-- "The unbeliever may be taught to believe, but not the Julian the Apostate to return” -- John Ruskin. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1Jn 4:1) Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. (1Co 12:3) OrdinaryClay, I rebuke you in the name of jesus and command you in the name of jesus never to return to ex-Christian. At the name of jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess. Whatever we bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. In the name of jesus, I bind you, OrdinaryClay. So, Clay, if you come back to this site, we will know you are not from god, because you will have disobeyed an order given in the name of jesus. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 David L, Satan has tricked you by writing the Bible and pawning it off as God's work. Remember, “Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:14). That's why the Bible has God doing such things as committing or encouraging genocide, stoning people to death for doing things like picking up sticks on a Saturday, making the owning and beating of slaves lawful, encouraging the beating of disobedient children with rods, and filling people of fears of being tortured forever for not believing unverifiable and dubious metaphysical ideas. You have doubted the divine origin of the scriptures of Islam, Zoroastrianism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Manichaeism, Mandaeism, Mormonism and a host of other faiths. You have agreed with the Catholic consensus on the New Testament, thus denying the word of God in the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, the Gospel of Thomas, and numerous other holy books written by Christians. How many times have you asked the question "Did God really say?" Ex-C is a bad place to evangelize btw-- "The unbeliever may be taught to believe, but not the Julian the Apostate to return” -- John Ruskin. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1Jn 4:1) Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. (1Co 12:3) OrdinaryClay, I rebuke you in the name of jesus and command you in the name of jesus never to return to ex-Christian. At the name of jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess. Whatever we bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. In the name of jesus, I bind you, OrdinaryClay. So, Clay, if you come back to this site, we will know you are not from god, because you will have disobeyed an order given in the name of jesus. Yeah, but what if Jesus was a spirit that was not from God? Then using the name of Jesus to test if OC was from god would be pointless. He could leave this site, never come back, and still never have been from God. What if Yahweh was not God to begin with? Then Jesus would most definitely not be from God, unless Jesus is from someone else other than Yahweh, the real God, if Yahweh is indeed, not actually God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 27, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2013 ^^^Actually testing OC is pointless anyway, but I thought it might be fun to see his reaction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 27, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted November 27, 2013 Besides, even the devil can quote scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 We are saved through our decision to accept Christ, not through any work we do. It's free. Nope; that's the theology of Paul the Antichrist. We're saved through our decision to reject Christianity and accept reality, O Dead Soul Walking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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