Guest adriannastargazer Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Everywhere I go, no matter what there are always people that want proof of this or proof of that. Well, I know nothing, and I see nothing. I can prove that by closing my eyes and not saying anything. in order for anyone to dissprove that, you would have to have a device that can read my brainwaves. Since no one has done that yet, then that statement is fact. (or is it) I do not want to offend, anyone, or anything. But, asking for proof is wrong...to a point. Somethings you can ask for proof of, but let me ask you this. To some one who is color blind what color is the sky? For the rest of us, it's blue... how do you proove that? I can't stand it any more. why don't we all just go out to a bar... get drunk, and forget all about proof, what can be proven to one isn't proof to all, so there is no pleasing anyone in trying. Some may say it's fun and have a party at it . But it's not doing any good to keep on and on about it... sooner or later everyone will sound like nothing but a group of cackling christians, and I thought that this site was different. I just wander sometimes, how many of you spent time in elementary defying your teachers when science was introduced? I think that most places introduce it around the 3rd grade. No one can prove what they believe to be true, and in saying that anyone is wrong for feeling about something one way is wrong, let me ask you this, can any of us really prove beyond a reasonable doubt that what we feel to be true, really is? I say no. Everyone is different, and everyone has different views, that is all but the christians who would rather follow than to think for themselves. There is no reason for trying to knock some one down so that you can feel a little higher than the lowlife that you make yourselves out to be.. And yes, I do include myself in that. I do put some things down about people. I admit that, it's true, just look back over what you have read. it's obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wertbag Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Theres certainly a big difference in repeating the oft heard line of "Prove god/jesus/spirits/angels exist" and asking for proof which should exist for physical claims by christians. You cannot prove or disprove an invisible spirit like being, but you can investigate any claims of physical interaction between these supernatural beings and our world. I would always ask for proof of a global flood, of the power of prayer, of someone being able to call fire from the sky or heal by touch. To some one who is color blind what color is the sky? For the rest of us, it's blue... how do you prove that? Easily, blue is simply a descriptive term given to a colour. Whether or not the colour I see in the sky is actually the same as what you see does not change the fact that the word "blue" is attached to that particular colour. You don't need to prove definitions, the dictionary isn't up for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 ....huh? Why don't you give me proof you're not an idiot by making a coherent post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpooky Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Well, I know nothing, and I see nothing. So... you know that you know nothing? Sounds trite, but this really is the pinnacle of how epistemological skepticism is a failure at its very root. You make a claim which negates the means by which your argument would be made possible. Either your skepticism of the efficacy of reason and the solidity of knowledge is valid, or it is not. Either your skepticism is justified, or it is not. If your skepticism is valid and/or justified, then a method of validation and justification (i.e. Reason) exists, which negates the conclusion you present! If your skepticism is NOT valid and/or justified, your claim simply reduces to a meaningless statement. It's a catch-22 really. Saying that knowledge or reason don't exist is like a man giving a speech on why he is mute, or a man claiming to see clearly that everyone is blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Ah, fluffy-bunny syndrome... Proof becomes an issue when someone asserts a statement and then demands that you beleive it (in a non-violent fashion). Asside from what Mr. Spooky said, I would also like to point out that for at least a few of us, a lot of these debates are just fun (and funny) to us, especially when the enlightened come in and get brought down a few pegs, even more so when their ego doesn't let them realize it. For many others, it gives them a basis for getting their Will back and getting their minds back for themselves. So if you want to break out the guitar and the campfire and start making smores and singing Kumbaiya, go ahead. To miss discord is to miss one of the key principles of reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adriannastargazer Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 well, it's apparent to me that neither of you understood anything in that post... so I suppose that I'll just have to find some where else to post... but then again, there really isn't anywhere else. So for now, I'll wait to find some one, anyone that understands english. and can actually read it worth a damn. So far in the few replies, there is not one of you... oh, and Asimov. do you even know the meaning of coherent? No one takes time to read anymore. And those that do, no matter what they say, once they interpret it to their own mind's acceptance.( pardon me for any one that I've offended I do realize that not all people have them) If I didn't know anybetter, I'd say that you are pretty well all still in the mindset of christians, closed minded, and set to the point, no one can say a damn thing to you, with out you missunderstanding everything. So for all you so called athiests... that are still in the christian mind set... please by all means...WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! open those small minds of yours and look around. There has to be one person out there that can actually read my post, and understand it... otherwise I'll have to treat you all like 3 year olds and explain everything to you that way. I'd prefer to believe that I am posting to actuall people. But if that's not the case, well here this you will understand. nkigja;dienpad8a;lsidua8rutg'lsihvp 987rtb- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 well, it's apparent to me that neither of you understood anything in that post... so I suppose that I'll just have to find some where else to post... but then again, there really isn't anywhere else. So for now, I'll wait to find some one, anyone that understands english. and can actually read it worth a damn. So far in the few replies, there is not one of you... oh, and Asimov. do you even know the meaning of coherent? No one takes time to read anymore. And those that do, no matter what they say, once they interpret it to their own mind's acceptance.( pardon me for any one that I've offended I do realize that not all people have them) If I didn't know anybetter, I'd say that you are pretty well all still in the mindset of christians, closed minded, and set to the point, no one can say a damn thing to you, with out you missunderstanding everything. So for all you so called athiests... that are still in the christian mind set... please by all means...WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! open those small minds of yours and look around. There has to be one person out there that can actually read my post, and understand it... otherwise I'll have to treat you all like 3 year olds and explain everything to you that way. I'd prefer to believe that I am posting to actuall people. But if that's not the case, well here this you will understand. nkigja;dienpad8a;lsidua8rutg'lsihvp 987rtb- Oh, boohoo, nobody understands you.... Oh, and coherent: Marked by an orderly, logical, and aesthetically consistent relation of parts: a coherent essay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adriannastargazer Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 what's the matter asimov... need a dictionary, or do you have some one who can read helping you out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 what's the matter asimov... need a dictionary, or do you have some one who can read helping you out? I think I'm being insulted, but it just doesn't make any sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adriannastargazer Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 I think I'm being insulted, but it just doesn't make any sense... Asimov... don't try something new with me, Thinking just doesn't seem to be your style. OH, I'm sorry, do you have a style? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 I think I'm being insulted, but it just doesn't make any sense... Asimov... don't try something new with me, Thinking just doesn't seem to be your style. OH, I'm sorry, do you have a style? On a serious note, you seem to have a problem explaining yourself. I don't see MrSpooky deserving of any insults, so why not rebut his statement instead of acting like a child and throwing a temper tantrum because we seem not to "get" what you're trying to say? Once again, try out that No Tears shampoo and if you want to have an actual discussion regarding proof or epistemology then explain yourself a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adriannastargazer Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 so you do want me to explain it like you are a child... either that, or you just don't understand anyhing, afterall... you don't seem to understand that I'm talking to you, and no one else at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 i agree nothing can be proven right or wrong i mean who really knows without a shadow of a doubt we know everything? science and religion both have thousands of theories none of them has really been proven to be a fact how it really is. also this religion bashing and calling people stupid for thinking theirs a god or believing in things has got to stop. cause it runs new people off they dont feel welcome. this is an exchristian forum not an exreligion forum. adrianna their are open minded people here and im shure youll find some here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silent One Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Intriguing. You come in here, make assertations as to what can and can't be proven, and then insult those who reply in a manner that you don't like. If nothing can be proven, then you cannot prove that nothing can be proven. Good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 so you do want me to explain it like you are a child... either that, or you just don't understand anyhing, afterall... you don't seem to understand that I'm talking to you, and no one else at the moment Well if you're saying that nothing can be proven, it's already been shown that you are contradicting yourself. If you're not saying that, then what are you saying? i agree nothing can be proven right or wrong i mean who really knows without a shadow of a doubt we know everything? Nobody is saying we know everything.... Of course things can be proven right or wrong. 1+1=2, I can prove that by taking two of the same objects and grouping them together. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line can be proven, what more do you need? science and religion both have thousands of theories none of them has really been proven to be a fact how it really is. Out of the mouths of the ignorant. If you are equating a scientific theory with the layman definition of theory then you shouldn't be making this assertion. also this religion bashing and calling people stupid for thinking theirs a god or believing in things has got to stop. cause it runs new people off they dont feel welcome. Then they need to come up with something that doesn't automatically result in a fallacy. Repeating something after being shown that you are wrong is stupidity. Adhering to a belief that you cannot demonstrate to be true or justify is being stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 ok if you say you dont know everything then why dont you act like it? Nobody is saying we know everything.... Of course things can be proven right or wrong. 1+1=2, I can prove that by taking two of the same objects and grouping them together. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line can be proven, what more do you need? you have no right to judge me as ignorant for one thing and another thing why is it no matter what you read about science has athousand theories if one of them found something to be the total truth their wouldnt be so many. science and religion both have thousands of theories none of them has really been proven to be a fact how it really is. Out of the mouths of the ignorant. If you are equating a scientific theory with the layman definition of theory then you shouldn't be making this assertion. also this religion bashing and calling people stupid for thinking theirs a god or believing in things has got to stop. cause it runs new people off they dont feel welcome. calling people ignorant is not showing fallacy its showing your being judgemental. i can think of alot nicer ways to try to prove someone wrong cant you. just cause your prejudice against all religions dont mean you have to be ugly about it. you have no proof im wrong about anything. you are such a fucking asshole im gonna call you assimov ok Repeating something after being shown that you are wrong is stupidity. Adhering to a belief that you cannot demonstrate to be true or justify is being stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 ok if you say you dont know everything then why dont you act like it? Well tell me where I said I know everything and I'll retract my statement. you have no right to judge me as ignorant for one thing and another thing why is it no matter what you read about science has athousand theories if one of them found something to be the total truth their wouldnt be so many. It's not a judgement, it's an assertion, one that I can provide evidence for. A few questions for you: 1) Do you know what a scientific theory is? 2) Do you know what the scientific method is? 3) Are you aware that inductive logic does not provide proofs, but inferences? 4) Are you aware that science never states that it has proven something? What is truth, willybilly? calling people ignorant is not showing fallacy its showing your being judgemental. i can think of alot nicer ways to try to prove someone wrong cant you. just cause your prejudice against all religions dont mean you have to be ugly about it. You can take offense to what I've said and cry about it, or you can realise that you're wrong and accept it. Do you want me to baby you and beat around the bush? You have no proof im wrong about anything. you are such a fucking asshole im gonna call you assimov ok. I can prove that you are wrong. Premise: 1) Willybilly asserts that nothing can be proven right or wrong. 2) A=A is proven to be true. Conclusion: Willybilly is wrong. If you can refute that statement, then you will have proven me wrong, thus proving yourself wrong. Or you can be juvenile and call me assimov...something people already call me in an obviously endearing way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 fine assimov do what ever you want. but im not inviting any more people here for you too hurt with your comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 fine assimov do what ever you want. but im not inviting any more people here for you too hurt with your comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 stick up your ass ass-i-mov fine assimov do what ever you want. but im not inviting any more people here for you too hurt with your comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 stick up your ass ass-i-mov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 i could argue back and forth all night but whats the point. im going to think what i want to and so are you we can butt heads all night but what good would it do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 i could argue back and forth all night but whats the point. im going to think what i want to and so are you we can butt heads all night but what good would it do? Well no...I'm going to think what is reasonable, logical, and evidential. You can think whatever you want, regardless of it being true or false. It would do a world of good, you might learn something, I might learn something...that's the nature of discussion, willybilly, to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Well no...I'm going to think what is reasonable, logical, and evidential. You can think whatever you want, regardless of it being true or false. It would do a world of good, you might learn something, I might learn something...that's the nature of discussion, willybilly, to learn. i dont want to be an athiest tho isnt their any other alternative? so what are you saying? that anyone who isnt athiest is a stupid moron who dont know nothing or am i putting words in your typing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 i dont want to be an athiest tho isnt their any other alternative? Where is there any requirement that you have to be an atheist, willy? You take things way too personally. If thinking what is logical, reasonable and evidential leads you to be an atheist then you'll just have to accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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