♦ ficino ♦ Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Buffetphan, good article. I don't remember whether I ever read it. Thanks for bringing it back to our attention. SD, that article seems to cover the question of your OP. -------------------- Edited to add: like many, I think it is rational to hate a meme or idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why does anger freak christians out so much? Anger can be a positive force... it get's one off his ass to do something. It's motivating when used positively. I'm an historian, and I know enough about the history of the church to see what an evil abomination it is. Thousands of years of lies, wars, repression, persecution, torture, bigotry, abuse, theft, more lies, inquisitions, several nasty crusades, political machinations, lobbying, the demonization of women, the demonization of sex, the wiping out of countless indigenous peoples and their cultures, the lobbying to get 'biblical' doctrine as secular law, the terrorization and indoctrination of children, the dark ages, the persecution of the Jews, the Roma's, slavery, the dumbing down of the masses, the sacking of Alexandria and the destruction of the worlds greatest library, the enmity between the christians, jews and muslims - who all worship the same darn deity anyway (?) the sexual abuse of children en masse (check out the news forum... it just never stops). Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron, Kent Hovind, William Craig, et al... These people are an embarrassment to the human race. (and proof that some people haven't evolved lol) The suppression of science and vilification of those very bright people who brought us things like, oh... freedom from Polio and Smallpox, while arguing about how great their god is ON THE INTERNET (oh, the irony), the elitism, the bigotry against homosexuals, transgenders and well, anyone who doesn't fit the nice, neat little mold of a 'good christian', the theft by evangelists who are incomprehensibly evil and greedy, the absorption and outright slaughter of pagans around the world. The promotion of ignorance as a virtue, the THREAT that if others do not believe as you do that we DESERVE eternal torture.. and the charge that we CHOSE that (ya, fuck you!) The FACT that a whole lot of church going christians are the most unloving, cliquish and nasty people I've ever met... and dishonest to boot. The FACT that, at least on the internet, christians are some of the dumbest and barely literate people I have ever spoken too, and it's all because they don't know how to think critically nor care about their education. People who take some dumbass pastors' word as truth without checking out facts themselves... because they are too damn lazy to think for themselves. Christians who can't seem to wrap their tiny little minds around the fact that an atheist (and we aren't all atheists here) DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. As far as we are concerned there is no evidence to suggest there is one (or more even) and then charge us with being bitter and angry at this non-existent thing... Because... christians are trying to change education in our schools, and some are killing CHILDREN in Africa because they think they are witches and the Bible told them to kill witches. Because the Catholic church says condoms are bad and many, many people are dying of AIDS because of it. Because the church has been using you and lying to you for thousands of years and you are all too wrapped up in the warm fuzzies to see it. Because I have to know more about your damn book than you do... and I'm pissed that most christians have no idea how abhorrent the deity in that book is - because they barely read their bibles, and when they do they cherry-pick the stuff that makes them feel good and ignore the nasty stuff, or they let their ministers, priests and pastors interpret it so it seems all love and light - it's not. Incest, murder, genocide, bigotry, slavery, hatred, theft. Damn right I'm angry, and I don't apologize for it... because all this shit SHOULD make someone angry. But it isn't "god" I'm angry with.. because he has left the building, so to speak. Are you angry with Zeus? Why not? Fucking stupid, isn't it? And if you can't handle a little bad language you should go over to Nickelodeon and watch Spongebob Squarepants. But if you really want to know why (some) atheists are angry, watch this; 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 It's interesting to see just how much willful ignorance can be loaded into a single question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted December 3, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted December 3, 2013 S4M, please pay attention to what others say, and stop being silly. Leveling unfounded charges that "we" think this or "we" do that, even when put in a loaded question form, will not fly around here. Shape up. Now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why do you hate my herd of unicorns? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why is it that most of you who profess to have no belief in God have such hatred for a being that allegedly doesn't exist? Seriously, why so much anger against a non-existent being? Is it really that you believe he exists, but are simply frustrated that he seems distant from you? I'm just curious? Also, it would be nice to hear some well-thought out responses, rather than expletive-ridden responses. Anybody? Didn't we already tell you? The followers of God are very real and all too often very annoying. The followers of God want everyone to change religion, want to deny basic freedoms, oppose science, and generally hate people for being different. We don't hate a fictional character that we realize doesn't exist. But we do have to fight against the culture that Christians insist on imposing on the entire world because the Bible told them so. The followers of Star Wars are similar, but they don't evoke anger. Why is there such anger against something that is allegedly fake? The "followers of Star Wars" don't tell people that they are going to hell or try to behave as if they are morally superior. And they all admit that Star Wars is fiction, which is far more honest than you have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExCBooster Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 i think most exC are not angry with god per se, but creeps like sandiego which imposes his fucking fairy tales whenever he thinks is needed,,,, Why is it that a large portion of individuals on this site have to use hate speech against people who ask honest questions? Why the vitriol? Well, for me, at least, I'm getting sick of answering "honest questions" with honest answers, and not even getting the respect of honest introspection from the person who asked. Nobody's asking that anyone agree with them, just to be taken seriously and respected. If someone steadfastly refuses to even consider other viewpoints, while yelling at the top of their lungs that they're right all the time... let's just say that's the short track to people assuming the questions weren't "honest questions" at all. If you ask a question, you must be prepared for an answer you don't like or don't expect. You're expecting people to return to and re-consider a belief structure that they found to be false, or even abusive, while not being open to real reasons they left in the first place, which is like treating them as ignorant children, when what they have done, they have won with incredible courage and suffering. Don't be shocked when you get treated like an ignorant child back. If you think you know everything, how do you expect to truly learn anything? Not listening, and not being open to the answers suggests that the questions aren't honest. So, if you are upset by your treatment here, try listening, for a while. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 i think most exC are not angry with god per se, but creeps like sandiego which imposes his fucking fairy tales whenever he thinks is needed,,,, Why is it that a large portion of individuals on this site have to use hate speech against people who ask honest questions? Why the vitriol? Because talking to you is like trying to debate with a carp. You pose questions, ignore data and thoughtful responses, then start another thread. It's annoying as hell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandiego4me Posted December 3, 2013 Author Share Posted December 3, 2013 Remove your god goggles and read one of the first articles that webmdave published on this website. It's short and to the point. Hopefully you will try to understand. Read the comments too. In fact you and all True BelieversTM should read, read, read, and read some more before you post any more of your tiresome blatherings. http://articles.exchristian.net/2006/07/not-ready-to-be-nice.html I read it. Fair enough. I don't necessarily agree with everything, but I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted December 3, 2013 Super Moderator Share Posted December 3, 2013 Here are two scenarios that I typically use to correct christians who claim that I am just angry at god. Scenario 1: My four year old sits down on Santa's lap and tells Santa the he wants a pony for Christmas. The pony will be chestnut with a white star and stockings; and it will be named Orlik. My son will feed the pony and take it for walks everyday. Santa promises my son he will have the pony he's asked for. However, come the blessed yule-tide, there's no pony to be found. Scenario 2: My wife and I tell our son that he will get a pony for Christmas this year. We tell him that the pony will be chestnut with a white star and stockings; and it will be named Orlik. We tell him that we will get to feed the pony and take it for walks everyday. We start making these promises immediately after Halloween and continue making them until Christmas Eve. However, come the blessed yule-tide, there's no pony to be found. Do you see the difference? Probably not, so I will explain it to you. In Scenario 1 a fictitious, non-existent character made promises to my son that he could not keep. My son might be angry at Santa for a while, but eventually, he will realize that Santa does not exist and that his anger is therefore irrational. In Scenario 2, however, real people who my son really trusts made promises to him and then did not keep them. Now my son has a legitimate right to be angry and a legitimate target upon whom to direct that anger. See the difference yet? Probably not. A lot of promises were made to me as a christian; I'm sure this was the case with most of us here. In my case, I was indoctrinated from birth to believe these promises and the people who made them. I set my life up around these promises, believing that they were true. ONLY TO FIND OUT I HAD BEEN LIED TO, BETRAYED, AND SET UP FOR FAILURE. My anger is not against god. My anger is properly directed against the people who perpetuate the myth of god. My anger is against the religions that abuse, poison, and neglect innocent victims. My anger is right and it is righteous. Your religion destroys lives; it breaks minds and spirits. I AM ANGRY ABOUT THAT. I am also angry about christians who post this kind of drivel in the Rants and Replies forum which is, as I understand, meant for ex-christians (especially new ex-christians) to be able to blow off steam about their deconversion process. It makes me angry that people like you, Sandiego, can't respect other people enough to post this kind of thing in The Lion's Den. I hope this adequately answers your question and since you specifically mentioned expletive-ridden responses, I'll leave you with one final thought: damn shit fuck bitch ass cunt whore. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I have never been “mad” at God. I have experienced a good deal of frustration with some of those who claim to be his followers though. It is common knowledge on this board that de-conversion is a process not an event. There are a number of excellent books that have been written on this subject. Stages of Faith by James Fowler, is but one of many such books. The stages of de-conversion include such things as the desire to “educate” believers and unfortunately it also includes stages of anger directed at those who deceived them and took control of their minds. Fundamentalists Christians are the most problematic for non-believers because they are, as a group, the ones that are the most thoroughly indoctrinated. They are truly not in their right minds but those of us who are familiar with that group understand they are part of a cult and therefore they act accordingly. It is virtually impossible to reason with a fundamentalist be they religious or political fundamentalist. Their minds are closed. Another poster recently wrote about “confirmation bias” which is the tendency all humans have to disregard any information that challenges their deeply held beliefs. Christians are some of the worst offenders when it comes to confirmation bias. It has been noted by numerous posters that their anger is directed at people not an imaginary supernatural deity, but I think Sandie was well aware of that before starting this topic. I think Sandie’s topic was intentionally inflammatory and worded so that it would create a lot of emotional responses. Being mad at God would be similar to being mad at Santa Claus in that both would serve no purpose and would be a complete waste of time and energy. I have found it helps to keep in mind that fundamentalists are brainwashed members of a cult and their actions and speech reflect that. I look at them as being mentally ill. When you frame them in that light it is easier to accept them for who and what they are, and that also makes it much easier to ignore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MadameX Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 ... I look at them as being mentally ill. When you frame them in that light it is easier to accept them for who and what they are, and that also makes it much easier to ignore them. Sadly, this seems to be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 To be honest, when I first deconverted, I was angry a lot but it was simply because I had to face the truth of how much of my life was wasted and dictated by theology. For that, I blamed the church, not god. I'm over that though. Now the only time I get angry as it relates to "god" is when people try to shove their religion down my throat. For example, when I come to this site which is for us ex-christians and I see idiotic posts by Christians like you who have no clue about what you are speaking, it tries my patience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 i think most exC are not angry with god per se, but creeps like sandiego which imposes his fucking fairy tales whenever he thinks is needed,,,, Why is it that a large portion of individuals on this site have to use hate speech against people who ask honest questions? Why the vitriol? Because talking to you is like trying to debate with a carp. You pose questions, ignore data and thoughtful responses, then start another thread. It's annoying as hell. Seems to have just started another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why is it that most of you who profess to have no belief in God have such hatred for a being that allegedly doesn't exist? Seriously, why so much anger against a non-existent being? Is it really that you believe he exists, but are simply frustrated that he seems distant from you? I'm just curious? Also, it would be nice to hear some well-thought out responses, rather than expletive-ridden responses. Anybody? In addition to the thoughts expressed-- anger for being duped for so long, or wasted years, or because of annoyances from believers, guilt trips from family members, etc.-- I think some of it has to do with lingering emotional pain attached to the idea of God. Think about how you still might be mad at an abusive father even though he was long dead and had ceased to exist. Many of us lived in fear that God would torture us for all eternity if we believed or did the "wrong" things. Those of us from a Christian past don't have the emotional ties to Allah, Ahura-Mazda, Shiva, etc., so there is no emotional reaction typically when we hear of the impending judgment of those gods. (Muslims, Zoroastrians, and Hindus probably have a similar lack of emotional connection to the Christian god-concept.) Of course, ex-C's are still very much human and can be subject to irrational fears like anyone else. It's something many of us still fight against. Man is, in the words of Hitchens, a partially rational animal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why is it that most of you who profess to have no belief in God have such hatred for a being that allegedly doesn't exist? Seriously, why so much anger against a non-existent being? Is it really that you believe he exists, but are simply frustrated that he seems distant from you? I'm just curious? Also, it would be nice to hear some well-thought out responses, rather than expletive-ridden responses. Anybody?Why the anger against non-believers if they're not right? It must be that you think that they're right after all since you're so frustrated with them. I'm just curious. It would be nice to see a nice Christian since they're the ones who claim having the gifts of the spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why is it that most of you who profess to have no belief in God have such hatred for a being that allegedly doesn't exist? Seriously, why so much anger against a non-existent being? Is it really that you believe he exists, but are simply frustrated that he seems distant from you? I'm just curious? Also, it would be nice to hear some well-thought out responses, rather than expletive-ridden responses. Anybody? False premise. The disdain, contempt and ridicule you see is aimed at the humans that invent, promote and impose their chosen religion upon others. Common tactics include lying, misrepresenting, use of logical fallacies, peer pressure, enactment of laws, among other actions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why is it that most of you who profess to have no belief in God have such hatred for a being that allegedly doesn't exist? Seriously, why so much anger against a non-existent being? Is it really that you believe he exists, but are simply frustrated that he seems distant from you? I'm just curious? Also, it would be nice to hear some well-thought out responses, rather than expletive-ridden responses. Anybody? Didn't we already tell you? The followers of God are very real and all too often very annoying. The followers of God want everyone to change religion, want to deny basic freedoms, oppose science, and generally hate people for being different. We don't hate a fictional character that we realize doesn't exist. But we do have to fight against the culture that Christians insist on imposing on the entire world because the Bible told them so. The followers of Star Wars are similar, but they don't evoke anger. Why is there such anger against something that is allegedly fake? The reason why is because I have never heard of anyone claiming that everyone must believe in the Force, or else, but there are lots of Christians and Muslims who say that their god is real and that everyone should believe and bow to him, or else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikirin Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why is it that most of you who profess to have no belief in God have such hatred for a being that allegedly doesn't exist? Seriously, why so much anger against a non-existent being? Is it really that you believe he exists, but are simply frustrated that he seems distant from you? I'm just curious? Also, it would be nice to hear some well-thought out responses, rather than expletive-ridden responses. Anybody? Back when I was a Christian, I had this very same outlook. I beleived that atheists were simply God-Haters. I felt that their anger was a give-away. At the time, I did not appreciate how destructive Cristianity can be, I only saw the good things about Christianity. Any thing bad about Christianity I would chalk up to the interference of the Devil, or to fake fleshly Christians. Eventually I felt that Christianity needed to stop blaming agents provocateurs or invisible creatures for anything that made it look bad. Christianity preaches a very high standard, therefore it must be held to a high standard, rather than given a free pass. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorPoet Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I was angry at god, once, when I still believed in him. When I first had doubts and unanswered questions about my xianity, I was scared. Scared of hell, scared of being punished in this life for my faith not being strong enough. I did everything I could think of to make these doubts vanish. I read the bible, for hours at a time. Sometimes I went to those passages that I had taken so much meaning from in the past, sometimes I just opened to a random page. No answers were to be found. Hours and hours of reading, and I was left with more doubts then when I started. I prayed until my knees were sore. Asking, no begging, god for guidance. Begging for answers to my questions, begging to be pointed in the right direction to find the answers. No guidance presented itself. Answers were still nowhere to be found. I spoke with members of the clergy and other believers that I respected. What did I get? Platitudes, nothing with substance. After this, their parting advice, (you guessed it) read your bible and pray. So yeah, eventually I became angry. Angry for the lack of concern on god's part for my life and salvation. Angry that he wasn't there when I needed him most. There was only one set of footprints in the sand, but on close inspection, I found the famous poem to be wrong. Those footprints were made by my size twelves. Then one day, I had the greatest religious experience of my life. I don't remember exactly which day it was, or what time. I think it was early afternoon on a weekend. A little thought started to creep across my mind. My brain started to say "It's all b..." "Stop brain, that is blaspheme." But again, "it's all bulls..." "Stop it, stop it STOP IT" Finally my brain said, "you will NOT continue to ignore me, IT'S ALL BULLSHIT!!!!!" In an instant, my doubts and fears vanished. The hatred that I had been carrying around for months ceased to exist. This was all replaced by a sense of liberation that is indescribable. I can honestly say that I am a much better person now then I was prior to that day. I am free to live without fear or guilt. Now my only commandment is the golden rule, which I follow to the best of my abilities, because that is what life should be about. So I guess to answer your question. Almost none of us here are or can be angry at god, but many of us probably were at one point. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 WarriorPoet, I can totally relate to your story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardus Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why is it that most of you who profess to have no belief in God have such hatred for a being that allegedly doesn't exist? Seriously, why so much anger against a non-existent being? Is it really that you believe he exists, but are simply frustrated that he seems distant from you? I'm just curious? Also, it would be nice to hear some well-thought out responses, rather than expletive-ridden responses. Anybody? For the same reason that you are angry with the Tooth Fairy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Christianity preaches a very high standard, therefore it must be held to a high standard, rather than given a free pass. That's going into my list of notable quotes. You are spot-on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Neither you nor anyone else can understand the anger and other extreme emotions that many ExChristians go through when they begin their journeys out of the faith. However, I think one of the very best posts on ExC which highlights this emotional turmoil was written by Margee. Here it is if you care to read it: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Why are so many Xtians so angry at atheists, agnostics and everybody else who is non-christian for, in good faith, not believing the exact same that they do? Oh wait. Nobody could, in good faith, disagree with you. You have such humility. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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