Isn't It Kind Of Ironic To Have Black Christians?

[Tezia]

Given that the most religious group in America tends to be black, I find that it is ironic that there are even Black Christians, given their history. First of all, Christianity is not native to Africa (and according to information about the bible I believe that Christianity originated in the middle east). Most of the native religions found in Africa are far different from Christianity. Secondly, Christianity has been used to justify things like slavery (where it was practically imposed on the slaves), racism and segregation. given all this you would think a particular group would turn away from a religion like that. What are your thoughts?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I don't want to make broad generalizations, but it has been my experience with the African American friends that I have, that they tend to be both deeply spiritual as well as traditional people.  One of my closest friends attends church with her family and her young son, even though in her daily life she has no need for religion.  She even asked me to come to church with her when we first met, but then said I might be uncomfortable being the only white person there.

 

You do raise an interesting point here.

[Tezia]

I know there are few exceptions. As far as I know I'm the only African American Atheist (Well..i'm actually a little mixed but mostly black) i know of. All the African Americans I've talked to have at some point made a mention of God and me needing to put him first in my life whenever I converse with them. And even popular Black movies ( i.e. Tyler Perry) are pumped full of religion.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

We have a group of African American non-believers here in the Atlanta area:

http://blacknonbelievers.wordpress.com/

 

Here is what I found on meetup.com:

http://www.meetup.com/find/?keywords=atheist&radius=100&userFreeform=Nashville%2C+Tennessee%2C+USA&mcId=c37201&sort=default

 

Although none of these groups appeared to be strictly African American, you might at least find some fellowship.

[Lilith666]

It is. It's also ironic to have female Xians.

[RipVanWinkle]

Welcome Tezia. I hope you will find this site helpful as I believe you will.

 

My wife and I adopted a mixed race (Caucasian and Black) little girl when she was 7. She came from a

horrible family situation and was quite a hand full for a few years. She is now a lovely young woman

whom we love dearly. She has a 4 year old daughter who is, naturally, (coming from her grandfather)the smartest and prettiest little girl who ever lived. It has been a wonderful experience for us.

 

As to the reason Blacks here in the South took to Xtianity so strongly, I think it was the only

religion that was really available to them, considering how extreme the South was (is). It provided an "escape" from the miserable situation they were faced with. It is at least one thing they could

practice with no objections from the whites, except for mixed churches, of course. This is just

speculation on my part, but it seems probable.

 

Please join in our forums to both learn and teach. I have found it very helpful. You are very welcome

here. bill

[Idontevenknow99]

Given that the most religious group in America tends to be black, I find that it is ironic that there are even Black Christians, given their history. First of all, Christianity is not native to Africa (and according to information about the bible I believe that Christianity originated in the middle east). Most of the native religions found in Africa are far different from Christianity. Secondly, Christianity has been used to justify things like slavery (where it was practically imposed on the slaves), racism and segregation. given all this you would think a particular group would turn away from a religion like that. What are your thoughts?

 

Great post! It is ironic, but in the same token, can you blame the entire race? Yes, the christian religion was imposed on the slaves, but we're talking about a reinforcing of religion and years and years of internalized hatred, teaching that African culture is savage. White supremacy is found in Christianity. Had the Christian religion not been beaten (literally) into the slaves, and a "promise land" with white Jesus, then maybe, just maybe things wouldn't have turned out the way they are. 

 

Going off of what william7davis said, I think in the days of slavery and even the early days of the civil rights movement, Christianity was/is used as a crutch. Nobody challenged what this religion was because it was...just there. It goes unchallenged because it's all fear-based, not to mention that fear was the number one tactic used during slavery in the U.S. Do you see the connection? The Bible narrates slavery just as plain as day, because apparently it was so normal to own people. Well, we've now reached a consensus that says slavery is just unethical. Why, then, are people still hanging on to a system of prejudice and enslavement? I don't know.

 

Also: Have you read blacksunETHER's post, "Religion and its Oppressive Conditioning of the African American"? I think it speaks directly to this. 

[Tezia]

I read the article and it made a wonderful point. And I do think it is ironic to have women Christians too.

[RankStranger]

The fact is that christianity is no more indigenous to European culture than it is to African culture.  Lots of (most?) white peoples' ancestors were forcibly converted to christianity by the Romans.  So it's similarly 'ironic' on our part.  Just several hundred years older.

[amateur]

Stockholm Syndrome?

 

I agree about female believers, too, being ironic.

[MerryG]

The fact is that christianity is no more indigenous to European culture than it is to African culture.  Lots of (most?) white peoples' ancestors were forcibly converted to christianity by the Romans.  So it's similarly 'ironic' on our part.  Just several hundred years older.

 

Indeed.

 

Throughout its history christianity converted "by sword" and by threats. But once a generation is born into a religion, chances are they and their children will keep the religion -- even if it abuses them horribly and stands against all their ancestral traditions.

 

As a Celt, I should be worshipping a bunch of lusty warrior gods and fertility goddesses -- if I were to worship anybody at all. (I'm not going to, but it would sure be a lot more fun than Jesusism.)

[Discordia]

My best girlfriend is black and atheist.  She deconverted a few years ago.  We met on ExC dot net and started exchanging emails.

 

Looking at it now, it is indeed ironic that women would be Christians.  All in all, it is odd that almost anyone would be a Christian, given the general Christian message of "You are a worthless, fucking piece of shit who deserves to be tortured by fire for all eternity."  Of course, there are some with mental issues who would believe such a message as soon as they heard it, but I don't think the average person would buy into it at all without lifelong indoctrination to make the message seem legitimate.  And especially not an American who's ancestors were enslaved and who's enslavement was condoned and blessed by the God they are now worshiping.  The physical chains of slavery are gone but the mental ones are still there.

 

I never realized how abusive God was until I started losing my faith.  God gets angry, drowns the whole world, then God feels bad and promises He will never do it again and He gives us the pretty rainbow.

Oh baby, I'm sorry I lost my temper and punched you in the gut five times.  I bought you these earrings.  I hope you like them.  I love you.  Now clean up the puke."

 

You never know if what you are doing is going to piss God off or not.  If bad things happen its because God is "teaching you a lesson" and you need to guess what you did wrong and apologize for it.  And even then the punishment may continue to make sure the lesson sticks.  

"I love you baby, but I am doing this to you for your own good."  

"I don't want to hurt you but you are making me do this to you.  I love you."

"Why aren't all the clothes clean?  What have you been doing all day?  Do you need another lesson?  You asked for this."

 

Christianity teaches us that we are all worthless and deserve Hell but God loves us.  IF we do everything God wants we get to spend eternity telling God how awesome He is.  But if we don't do everything that God wants us to do then we will burn in hell forever, because God is Love and we need to be taught a lesson.

[RankStranger]

 

The fact is that christianity is no more indigenous to European culture than it is to African culture. Lots of (most?) white peoples' ancestors were forcibly converted to christianity by the Romans. So it's similarly 'ironic' on our part. Just several hundred years older.

 

Indeed.

 

Throughout its history christianity converted "by sword" and by threats. But once a generation is born into a religion, chances are they and their children will keep the religion -- even if it abuses them horribly and stands against all their ancestral traditions.

 

As a Celt, I should be worshipping a bunch of lusty warrior gods and fertility goddesses -- if I were to worship anybody at all. (I'm not going to, but it would sure be a lot more fun than Jesusism.)

Maybe it would've turned out better. Or maybe we would've turned whatever religion we had into abusive bullshit. I guess we'll never know.

[Aggie]

I would say yes-- and no...

 

While it is interesting that so many African-Americans adopted Christianity, they often formed their own denominations and rejected certain white racist ideas.

 

Also, Christianity has existed in Ethiopia from a very early period-- well over a thousand years before Columbus made his voyage.  http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/194189/Ethiopian-Orthodox-Tewahedo-Church  This site is really interesting too: http://www.ethiopianorthodoxchurch.info/

 

A good reminder that the Western types of Christianities that we are used to are just part of the picture.  Christians from other parts of the world often consider American types of Christianity as strange, heterodox, fly-by-night, damnable, etc...

[Sybaris]

Black Mormons, now THAT is hard to grasp

[MerryG]

Black Mormons, now THAT is hard to grasp

 

You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

Oh, but it's okay to be a black Mormon now. Because the "eternal mark of Cain" that god put on them for all time ... um, somehow, recently (and very conveniently) has been converted to not the mark of Cain, but just one more regular human skin color.

 

&^$#$@@!! How anybody can believe anything the Mormon church says after flippy-floppies like that one (and the earlier flippy-floppy on god's eternal command about plural marriage) just boggles the mind.

 

But the rest of christianity is really no different. The flip-flops have just happened over millennia and not quite so much in public view.

[SilentLoner]

Black Mormons, now THAT is hard to grasp

 

Funny enough, the first Mormon I ever met was black. 

[R. S. Martin]

Maybe someone else already said it but I think we have other blacks on here--African Americans, Africans living in Africa, and possibly African-Canadians or some other hyphenated identity. Sorry if I get the terms wrong. I'm not trying to be offensive but I am a bit ignorant at times.

[Tezia]

I would say yes-- and no...

 

While it is interesting that so many African-Americans adopted Christianity, they often formed their own denominations and rejected certain white racist ideas.

 

Also, Christianity has existed in Ethiopia from a very early period-- well over a thousand years before Columbus made his voyage.  http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/194189/Ethiopian-Orthodox-Tewahedo-Church  This site is really interesting too: http://www.ethiopianorthodoxchurch.info/

 

A good reminder that the Western types of Christianities that we are used to are just part of the picture.  Christians from other parts of the world often consider American types of Christianity as strange, heterodox, fly-by-night, damnable, etc...

 

Interesting point. I didn't know that, But when you do consider anglo-saxon history it is a little ironic how Christinaity stuck with them and how you got artists creating images of bible saints in their own likeness, especially since none of the bible characters were white (or as far as I know)

[falemon]

Chris Rock says that if you're black and christian, you have a really short memory!

[Geezer]

I realize the average person is bored with history and therefore has little knowledge about it. If they did they would realize slavery has existed from the beginning of recorded history. The Romans eventually realized their slaves grossly outnumbered them. When they realized that they began to fear them.

 

Fortunately, humans are inquisitive and that characteristic has encouraged the accumulation of knowledge and with knowledge civilizations formed and then evolved. Sadly, most of ancient human advances were based on survival so new inventions often were for the purpose of making better weapons that would efficiently kill more people. Yeah, I realize we are still doing that.

 

Sadly, we are slow learners so it took us thousands of years to figure out that one human should not “own” another human because we are human beings not animals. As we accumulated more knowledge our civilizations evolved, at least most of them. We became more compassionate and generally more civil. We eventually recognized such concepts as “human rights” and began to focus on making those ideals available to more people.

 

I admit that I get perturbed with some elements of political correctness that is so prevalent in our current environment.  Such things as denouncing our countries founding fathers accomplishment’s  because they were slave owners is idiotic. Why not criticize the ancient Egyptian’s as barbarians because slavery was common in that culture too?

 

Ancient cultures were simply products of their environment as are we now. It is grossly unfair, and not too smart either, to retroactively apply today’s societal norms to antiquated cultures and then condemn them for doing what was perfectly normal for their societies. Lots of very brave people put their lives on the line when they challenged their societal norms and it cost many of them their lives. Sadly, that appears to be the price that humanity must pay to grow and evolve.

[BrotherJosh]

Christianity is more of a culture than anything, especially in America. African-Americans were brought over here and basically stripped of any heritage, custom, tradition, ancestry or culture. The predominant culture of the time was White American Protestantism. During the slavery years a form of acculturation took place where the subordinate culture - the blacks - were slowly assimilated into our own culture. The same process happened with the Native Americans who were systematically destroyed as a society. They were left with virtually no heritage or culture, and so had to make due with whatever they could. 

 

Haitian Vodou and Loiusiana Voodoo are also examples of the term syncretism. Practitioners have combined elements of traditional African religion with Roman Catholicism and mysticism - this gave birth to a new form of religion. 

[ParadoxBlade97]

I know there are few exceptions. As far as I know I'm the only African American Atheist (Well..i'm actually a little mixed but mostly black) i know of. All the African Americans I've talked to have at some point made a mention of God and me needing to put him first in my life whenever I converse with them. And even popular Black movies ( i.e. Tyler Perry) are pumped full of religion.

 

You're not alone! (Even though I am mixed with a bit of Native American...)