Freedom Of Speech Is A Lie.

[AgnosticExChristianTB]

There is this ideal definition of the principle of freedom of speech: "You can talk about everything you want so long you do with respect". Of course, freedom of speech does not endorse harming others in a deliberate way. What this means is that once you insult another person willingly you are no longer practicing freedom of speech but abusing it. There is this principle that a person's limits end at the beginning of others' people limits. Of course, there are people who get easily offended for things we don't mean to say with the objective of insulting or saying something offensive to the person. But that is another matter- that's part of the other person's ability to tolerate another person's point of view.

 

When we talk about religion, truth is no matter how respectful we are when we object something that a religious person say, they get easily offended. You get the same reaction if you say to a Christian "hey, I don't agree with your opinion for this and that" or you say "you are talking so much BS you sicken me".

 

Since coming out as an agnostic, and coming to be as respectful as possible, I have received more and more insults from these pathetic excuses of Christians who label me as a server of the devil or an ignorant fool. I can see that deep within them, there are doubts, but their panic of realizing the truth that their beliefs are useless at the end, that life is not about awards or punishments for doing good or evil and it is just luck, plain and simple, and that prayers are not answered or replied to, is just beyond their control. They NEED to believe in something even if it is a lie or something likely to be a lie.

 

Christians (most of them) can't sustain objection. No matter how- disrespectful or respectful. If you, instead of insulting them or mocking their beliefs choose to ASK THEM QUESTIONS about their faith- in a respectiful way, they end up just as annoyed and disturbed. In America, you simply plain cannot talk ill about religions with other people unless you know they are non-religious like some of us are. If you debate with Christians in FB you will end up banned from a page or blocked from Facebook itself. If you go to a Pastor and you make questions about Christianity he will likely get eventually pissed and insult you.

 

In other words, you cannot object religion in this country. You can just come to forums like this and join others that think like you, and sites like this are pretty much the only ones you can "practice freedom of speech" against religious systems such as Christianity; but if you do it in a public place or site where everyone can join you will eventually get reported or labeled as an harasser and could even face some serious trouble if the person that reports you is a religious paranoid psycho. Again- it does not matter if you avoid swearing words or foul language. You can try as heck to be as respectful and even neutral- they just want you to either agree with them or shut up. Unfortunately, this being a Christian-based nation where most law-makers and government people are Christian, you are in trouble if you want your rights to be respected.

[Ravenstar]

The problem as I see it is.. there is a difference between speaking out against an idea or philosophy, and speaking out against a person. This is lost on most religious people (or even strongly political types) because they identify their ego with their worldview. So to them it feels like a personal attack.

 

We know it's not… but they can't seem to step outside their worldview long enough to see that. An extreme example is when Muslims get all freaked out, and violently, about satirical depictions of their very dead prophet. I've never understood this - because I think a good idea can stand on it's own and if it's legit can easily handle criticism.

 

The entire premise of christianity, as it is today, is that anyone who isn't exactly like them (the True Christians ™) is lower than a worm , basically unworthy and deserving of eternal torment… if that's not insulting, I don't know what is. But in this concept you can see their mindset… they would look at criticism the same way they look at us none, and project that we are also saying they are personally unworthy. Though they probably haven't gotten to the point to understand that in any way consciously.

 

Just some thoughts.. I am grateful to I've in a place where it isn't terribly religious - not like the south of the US, anyway - but as I 'come out' more I'm pretty sure I will pay a price, maybe I'll lose business - or be 'condemned' by a religious person.

 

I deeply hold to the right to criticize (free speech) any idea or philosophy, if I have to use parody or satire to get around stupid politically correct 'laws' then I will. What would happen if we couldn't criticize say (for example), communism? How is that different from criticizing religion?

[Geezer]

Freedom of speech is a concept that doesn’t exist, and has never existed in the real world. Restrictions on speech have always existed and always will. Religions have their version, society has its version (commonly referred to as political correctness these days), and political speech definitely has implied restrictions, as does the communication and entertainment industry.

 

In the real world people are not free to say anything they want. They can say it but what they say may have significant consequences. Paula Dean being a noted recent example.  It is wise these days to be aware of your surroundings before expressing an option that may be controversial.

 

Free speech works better when it’s exercised with a little common sense. True wisdom is knowing when to speak and when to keep your mouth shut.

[RenaissanceWoman]

... I have received more and more insults from these pathetic excuses of Christians who label me as a server of the devil...

... If you go to a Pastor and you make questions about Christianity he will likely get eventually pissed and insult you...

... they just want you to either agree with them or shut up....

 

This is what I faced when still a Christian, trying to work through issues at my church. That was a painful wake-up call that really hit me at the depth of my soul. Looking back, it was the beginning of my deconversion path.

 

You can be a Christian or not, but if you don't agree with them no matter what your background... you are a tool of Satan.

 

Freedom of speech -- as long as you are towing the line and playing their game. Otherwise, be damned. Can't you just feel the brotherly love?

[sandiego4me]

Freedom of speech ends at this board.  As soon as a Christian posts a contrary view, hordes of folks go screaming to the moderator to shut that person down.  Pathetic.  True freedom of speech is to say what you want even if it offends people.  I don't agree with 99% of what is posted on this board, but I would never suggest anybody be stopped from stating their opinions. 

[RenaissanceWoman]

SD4M, you are again missing the point of this forum. This is a place for healing, insight, ranting, support, comfort, and wisdom for recovering ex-Cs. You come here and pour lemon juice on fresh wounds. Give us a chance to heal a bit, ok?

 

I would never ask to have you banned or shut down. But I would ask you to please keep your discussions in a place here where such discussions are expected and accepted (the Lion's Den, for example). When I come to one of my "safe" and dare I say -- sacred -- spaces to chat with my support group (Rants and Replies or Ex-Christian Life, for examples), I get seriously annoyed with your desecration. Your posts are just a jolt to my brain when I am not in a good head space for it. It's kind of rude of you, I must say.

 

When I am feeling up for it and in the mood, I promise I will seek you and others like you in the appropriate section(s). There are plenty of people in the Lion's Den who are far enough along in their healing process that they feel strong enough to face their old demons of Christianity. Please go there and knock yourself out with them! But for the others who are looking for the support this site is designed for, please limit your insensitive intrusions in the other sections.

 

Maybe you don't realize that you are constantly shooting yourself in the foot. Your efforts are backfiring. But please, just show a little respect. Thank you.

[RosebudMarie]

Most of us here were not 'Sunday Christians'. We were youth leaders, pillars of the church, known by all around us as a 'good Christian' to the point where our unbelieving friends wouldn't bother to invite us to parties because they knew we wouldn't go.

 

We didn't come to our decision lightly, not after one argument but after years and years of doubt, reading and research.

 

Then one day it all sank in. For me, I almost physically watched a veil lift from my eyes. I am hurting. I am angry. I am grieving for lost years and lost experiences. I am repenting for the people I hurt in the name of Christianity.

 

I. Need. To. Heal.

I don't want an argument about faith, because believe me IVE HAD THEM ALL from your side! I've heard all the excuses. All the 'reasons' and all the false 'proof', the apologetics, all the scriptural verses Christians use to prove a point. BEEN THERE DONE THAT

You will NOT be able to give me any new information to change my mind, because I've heard it ALL. Hell, I've USED THEM ALL during my many, many 'witnessing' sessions. I was witnessing at 10 years old.

 

If you want to argue, go somewhere else. All you are doing here is hurting people, disrespecting us, and proving to us we were right to leave the religion.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Freedom of speech ends at this board.  As soon as a Christian posts a contrary view, hordes of folks go screaming to the moderator to shut that person down.  Pathetic.  True freedom of speech is to say what you want even if it offends people.  I don't agree with 99% of what is posted on this board, but I would never suggest anybody be stopped from stating their opinions. 

 

No, it does not end here. What is happening is you come here to make claims you can't back up, you misrepresent ideas and then use those misrepresentations to prove that those ideas are wrong. When you are told that you are misrepresenting ideas, you continue doing it anyway, as if nothing has ever been said. When you do this, it makes it look like your only purpose here is to irritate as many people as you can.

 

I have only met two believers on this site who did not behave the way you did. They expressed their views which were contrary to ours, but they weren't rude about it and they were honest, something which you have never been the entire time you've been here. The examples I can think of off the bat are Heavenese and End3. They are/were likeable.

 

I've never really participated in a discussion with End3 before, but I definitely have with Heavenese. Though I thought some of his views made no sense, I liked that guy and I enjoyed debating with him. No one ever went to the mods and said, "Ban Heavenese!" from what I have seen. Why did they not do that? It's because he wasn't behaving like a dishonest troll like you have been since you got here.

[mymistake]

Freedom of speech ends at this board.  As soon as a Christian posts a contrary view, hordes of folks go screaming to the moderator to shut that person down.  Pathetic.  True freedom of speech is to say what you want even if it offends people.  I don't agree with 99% of what is posted on this board, but I would never suggest anybody be stopped from stating their opinions. 

 

I see you are still here.  Does that make you a liar?

 

On this website the moderators have a history of asking the members how they feel about a given troll.  It's a choice the staff makes.  They work for the owner who sets the policies.

 

If the moderators eventually decide to put an end to your trolling that does not end free speech.  People are always welcome to have genuine conversations.  If you were not interested in genuine conversation that isn't our problem.

[pawn]

Actually I am amazed at the tolerance the mods show for trolls on this forum. Sandiego, ordinaryclay and others have demonstrated classic trollish behavior, yet been allowed to post their minds freely.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Actually I am amazed at the tolerance the mods show for trolls on this forum. Sandiego, ordinaryclay and others have demonstrated classic trollish behavior, yet been allowed to post their minds freely.

 

Some of the Christian trolls on this forum have been coming here on and off for years, since WAY before I ever found this site, but yet, they have not been banned for their behavior and especially not for their views (emphasis added for Sandiego4me). If that's not freedom of speech, then I don't know what is.

[ExCBooster]

Freedom of speech ends at this board.  As soon as a Christian posts a contrary view, hordes of folks go screaming to the moderator to shut that person down.  Pathetic.  True freedom of speech is to say what you want even if it offends people.  I don't agree with 99% of what is posted on this board, but I would never suggest anybody be stopped from stating their opinions. 

Yet, you have not been banned. [WARNING: incoming rant.]

 

No, where I get offended isn't the "opinion" it is in totally ignoring replies, and jumping threads to just start another one. I don't bother to type a post, just because I like to type, I do actually expect the person to engage in the conversation that they themselves started. If you ask a question, demanding an answer, it's just common sense to actually engage with the answers you get. Why ask it otherwise, if it was truly an "honest question"? I offered, at the start of this whole fiasco, to explain cultural differences that may be leading to the misunderstandings going on. I'm still willing to talk about it, because I do give you the benefit of the doubt, in that I think you are meaning to engage intellectually in this. However, continuing to ignore replies in threads you yourself started is beginning to wear on my patience, and indicates to me that you aren't doing this out of any honest desire for any sort of discussion. This is almost obscenely rude, and definitely behaviour that SHOULD get someone banned outright, so you have no right to get all self-righteously butthurt that those meanine ex-Christians aren't listening to you.

 

I'm not just saying this because I'm annoyed, I'm saying it because this sort of behaviour hurts your argument and credibility. If, indeed, you really want your message to be heard, you could vastly improve your effectiveness, if you did actually learn how and why other people think the way they do.

 

I think the reason this really grates on me is that I am actually not an ex-Christian myself. I was raised outside of religion, and both of my parents were non-religious. I've been having this conversation my entire life with the 80% of my country that is Christian. I am "out" as an atheist, and I only bring it up if the subject of religion is brought up to me. Have you literally been spat on for being Christian, Sandiego4Me? I have literally been spat on for being an atheist. All I did was say I did not attend any church. People tell me "turn or burn" with the utmost contempt, all the time.

 

And you're getting upset, and playing the "prosecuted Christian" card, because people are getting fed up with the hypocrisy of not listening to them, while you constantly invade more protected areas of the forum with incendiary, condescending topics, apparently looking for a fight, and then running away from the discussion you started. No. Not buying it.

 

The reason I haven't said all this before is that I didn't want to burst your little bubble, as your behaviour and arguments are, in fact, precisely the reason I am STILL non-Christian, and a potent testimony to anyone still questioning their faith as to how empty Christian arguments are. They don't even engage with real criticism. Now, to me, this looks like running from a fight they themselves picked. Any faith that insists that their tenets of belief are based on REASON and "objective truth" must be able to defend that assertion. What do we get instead? Picking a fight, and running away, and then snivelling when people object to the sheer spinelessness, insincerity, and deceit of it.

 

This is a forum for conversations. If you're not willing to engage, maybe the ban-hammer should be dropped.

 

Now, by all means, ignore what I'm saying here: However this ends, whether you continue in your present course on this forum, or you get banned, and proudly wear your "prosecuted Christian" merit badge afterwards, there is absolutely nothing I can say or do to make your argument and viewpoint and faith look any worse than this behaviour already has. If, however, on the slim chance that some of this has actually struck home, PM me. I am actually glad to talk, if your questions are "honest" and you will actually engage me. But, as things stand now, if they continue in their present course, your argument for Christianity has already lost.

[RipVanWinkle]

On freedom of speech, this really is a legal concept. Speech cannot be prohibited by

the government. Of course there are many exceptions. Speech can be prohibited

retroactively (so to speak) by contract, but as a general rule cannot be prohibited in advance. In other words the courts cannot issue an enforceable injunction

prohibiting another from committing libel or slander, but the latter can be sued for

monetary damages arising out of the libel or slander. These concepts and more do get

hazy.

 

There are many exceptions, such as the advocating the overthrow of the government by

force. The often cited example of screaming "fire" in a crowded theater is another.

There are many other exception, such as privileged communications between a doctor and his/her patient, between a lawyer and his/client, etc.

 

This is just a brief description and not intended to cover every exception and nuance. But my point is that it does exist; it is not an illusion. One cannot be legally

convicted of a crime for speaking out against the government as long is it is not for

advocating the its violent overthrow. Freedom of speech was never intended to be 100%. Picture it as a continuum.

 

There always will be the possibility of more restrictions on speech. But there is a

huge difference between what is allowed in the US and what was allowed in Nazi Germany. And that difference was not theoretical; it was real. And there is a difference in

free speech today in the US as compared to China. To say that free speech doesn't exist is like saying that someone who cannot read without strong glasses is totally blind.

To say it does not exist is to beat up the good with the perfect. Despite its many

exceptions, it is still a valuable right. bill

[slave2six]

Freedom of speech ends at this board.  As soon as a Christian posts a contrary view, hordes of folks go screaming to the moderator to shut that person down.  Pathetic.  True freedom of speech is to say what you want even if it offends people.  I don't agree with 99% of what is posted on this board, but I would never suggest anybody be stopped from stating their opinions. 

 

That's because we provide you with answers to your stupid questions and then you disengage and start a new thread. The problem is you, not us.

 

You must be a masochist. Or did you not get the hint that we don't want you here.

 

And, has been pointed out, you have not been banned. In fact, you have had more people engage with you than you deserve and they keep trying to engage with you. 

 

I marvel that you manage to be so inane and yet you're still alive. Modern miracle.

[slave2six]

Freedom of speech is available to anyone in the US who really doesn't give a f"ck if the hearers cry about it or not and who is willing to take a beating from people who disagree.

 

Freedom requires courage. If you have no courage, you have no freedom.

[midniterider]

Freedom of speech ends at this board.  As soon as a Christian posts a contrary view, hordes of folks go screaming to the moderator to shut that person down.  Pathetic.  True freedom of speech is to say what you want even if it offends people.  I don't agree with 99% of what is posted on this board, but I would never suggest anybody be stopped from stating their opinions. 

 

I dont think threads get locked because of a disagreement of a viewpoint. I think they get locked because the rant gets repetitious and devolves into name calling and insults. It is beating a dead horse, over and over and over. And the thread gets off the orignal topic. There are people with much more stamina than myself who would argue tit for tat forever just because that's what they enjoy. Others just find that multiple pages of this kind of thing to be useless blathering and it may not be so much that someone has important wisdom to share but it's more of an "I'm right, you're wrong" situation that will go on forever.

 

This isn't a government website of the people, by the people and for the people. It's a website run by a private individual. Freedom of speech doesn't apply here. It is a website for those recovering from the ill effects of Christianity.

 

People here are tired of people telling them Jesus this and Jesus that. Bible this and bible that. That's why we are HERE instead of a Christian forum. We are here to get away from assholes telling us what we should believe.

 

If I didn't agree with 99% of what was posted on a message forum I would not be visiting that forum. It would not be for me. What is your motive for visiting a website with which you don't agree with 99% of what is posted on it? Your motive is preaching which is exactly what people come here to avoid. Neither you nor Jesus Christ own this website. This website is one of few places where we say what we think about the EVILS of Christianity without some asshole telling us we're wrong.

 

This ISNT your Jesus forum.

[AgnosticExChristianTB]

I was not here for the last weeks so I am unaware of the situation on Christians here coming to "attack" us Ex-Christians. I must say, at this point of time my dislike for Christians in general is very strong, and while Facebook and other platforms may decide to ban me from commenting on pages for religion reasons even when I do it with the utmost respect, asking questions instead of offending them, I may not be as gentle here if they come and attack my position with foul language.

 

You see my problem with Christians (and especially Protestants, since Catholics are mostly secular and traditional rather that "the Republican" style (conservative and authoritative) is that they are mostly deliberately oxymoronic. It's known that they take some parts of the Bible to attack certain "sins" according to their vicious misinterpretation but conveniently leave away others or give them other interpretations that fit they hypocritical life. I have mentioned my experience in the Protestant Church and now that I'm out of the mess and I say things as they are they want to shut me up, they want to make me feel like I am a piece of garbage when their religion is supposed to be about love and patience, hope and understanding... they are inadvertently creating more ex-Christians every day, more people especially the younger ones are discovering the BS-ness of religion, to call it in a straightforward way- and I am not talking about God or deities- I am talking about dogmas and idiotic rules and standards that nobody, even them, follow.

 

I have discussed with Pastors, preachers, and all kinds of people who are very immersed in the Protestant faith, from everywhere- and their attitude is the same.If the see challenge, they try to stop you. They delete your comments if you are in their blogs; they report you on Facebook and now that report abuse is on the loose it is very easy to get blocked, they are even rude, when their figure of Jesus according to the very Bible they follow was NEVER that way; their attitude justify us on doubting their "sincerity" on being Christians and eventually expose them as the fakes and liars most of them are. And it's all because they are scared of facing the truth. They are just like kids, that prefer to believe in a fantasy so their lives are happier because of the illusion. Real life is not Wonderland, or Arendelle or Far Far Away. Real life is about evil people dominating the world of politics, corporations and the highest levels of power be it public or private. It is about people lying to others, using them, and dumping them when they are no longer useful. And Christians want to make themselves look like the exception when in fact they are even worse than the secular and non-believers. That's what I see

[RenaissanceWoman]

... It is about people lying to others, using them, and dumping them when they are no longer useful. And Christians want to make themselves look like the exception when in fact they are even worse than the secular and non-believers. That's what I see

 

I appreciate everything you wrote, but I wanted to highlight this last little part because it rings so true for me and so many others! The more you poke around here on this forum, the more you will realize how universal this is. All of us from different denominations, generations, sexes, and even different continents -- but many of us here can describe instances that lead us to agree with you. At first I thought it was just me, or just a few bad apples at my church, but now I know... it is endemic to the religion itself. Fear and control (being its underlying concepts and tactics) seem to manifest the same evil across time and space.

[Lilith666]

Freedom of speech ends at this board. As soon as a Christian posts a contrary view, hordes of folks go screaming to the moderator to shut that person down. Pathetic. True freedom of speech is to say what you want even if it offends people. I don't agree with 99% of what is posted on this board, but I would never suggest anybody be stopped from stating their opinions.

I haven't seen anyone asking the mods to ban you. Yes, people have vehemently disagreed, but that's not banning.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Freedom of speech ends at this board.  As soon as a Christian posts a contrary view, hordes of folks go screaming to the moderator to shut that person down.  Pathetic.  True freedom of speech is to say what you want even if it offends people.  I don't agree with 99% of what is posted on this board, but I would never suggest anybody be stopped from stating their opinions. 

Yet, you have not been banned. [WARNING: incoming rant.]

 

No, where I get offended isn't the "opinion" it is in totally ignoring replies, and jumping threads to just start another one. I don't bother to type a post, just because I like to type, I do actually expect the person to engage in the conversation that they themselves started. If you ask a question, demanding an answer, it's just common sense to actually engage with the answers you get. Why ask it otherwise, if it was truly an "honest question"? I offered, at the start of this whole fiasco, to explain cultural differences that may be leading to the misunderstandings going on. I'm still willing to talk about it, because I do give you the benefit of the doubt, in that I think you are meaning to engage intellectually in this. However, continuing to ignore replies in threads you yourself started is beginning to wear on my patience, and indicates to me that you aren't doing this out of any honest desire for any sort of discussion. This is almost obscenely rude, and definitely behaviour that SHOULD get someone banned outright, so you have no right to get all self-righteously butthurt that those meanine ex-Christians aren't listening to you.

 

I'm not just saying this because I'm annoyed, I'm saying it because this sort of behaviour hurts your argument and credibility. If, indeed, you really want your message to be heard, you could vastly improve your effectiveness, if you did actually learn how and why other people think the way they do.

 

I think the reason this really grates on me is that I am actually not an ex-Christian myself. I was raised outside of religion, and both of my parents were non-religious. I've been having this conversation my entire life with the 80% of my country that is Christian. I am "out" as an atheist, and I only bring it up if the subject of religion is brought up to me. Have you literally been spat on for being Christian, Sandiego4Me? I have literally been spat on for being an atheist. All I did was say I did not attend any church. People tell me "turn or burn" with the utmost contempt, all the time.

 

And you're getting upset, and playing the "prosecuted Christian" card, because people are getting fed up with the hypocrisy of not listening to them, while you constantly invade more protected areas of the forum with incendiary, condescending topics, apparently looking for a fight, and then running away from the discussion you started. No. Not buying it.

 

The reason I haven't said all this before is that I didn't want to burst your little bubble, as your behaviour and arguments are, in fact, precisely the reason I am STILL non-Christian, and a potent testimony to anyone still questioning their faith as to how empty Christian arguments are. They don't even engage with real criticism. Now, to me, this looks like running from a fight they themselves picked. Any faith that insists that their tenets of belief are based on REASON and "objective truth" must be able to defend that assertion. What do we get instead? Picking a fight, and running away, and then snivelling when people object to the sheer spinelessness, insincerity, and deceit of it.

 

This is a forum for conversations. If you're not willing to engage, maybe the ban-hammer should be dropped.

 

Now, by all means, ignore what I'm saying here: However this ends, whether you continue in your present course on this forum, or you get banned, and proudly wear your "prosecuted Christian" merit badge afterwards, there is absolutely nothing I can say or do to make your argument and viewpoint and faith look any worse than this behaviour already has. If, however, on the slim chance that some of this has actually struck home, PM me. I am actually glad to talk, if your questions are "honest" and you will actually engage me. But, as things stand now, if they continue in their present course, your argument for Christianity has already lost.

 

Git 'im, ExC!

[sandiego4me]

I. Need. To. Heal.

I don't want an argument about faith, because believe me IVE HAD THEM ALL from your side! I've heard all the excuses. All the 'reasons' and all the false 'proof', the apologetics, all the scriptural verses Christians use to prove a point. BEEN THERE DONE THAT

You will NOT be able to give me any new information to change my mind, because I've heard it ALL. Hell, I've USED THEM ALL during my many, many 'witnessing' sessions. I was witnessing at 10 years old.

 

If you want to argue, go somewhere else. All you are doing here is hurting people, disrespecting us, and proving to us we were right to leave the religion.

 

Your post struck a chord with me.  To be honest, I never really thought about the personal pain I might be causing people.  I knew that folks disagreed, but I really didn't think about pain.  We all know that this shit is tough for all of us.  I'm going to take your words to heart and stop being antagonistic.  I was mostly just having fun, trying to get the counterpoint argument to my arguments.  I actually enjoyed reading them.  However, I don't want to be an a-hole.  So, please accept my apology.   

[RosebudMarie]

 

I. Need. To. Heal.

I don't want an argument about faith, because believe me IVE HAD THEM ALL from your side! I've heard all the excuses. All the 'reasons' and all the false 'proof', the apologetics, all the scriptural verses Christians use to prove a point. BEEN THERE DONE THAT

You will NOT be able to give me any new information to change my mind, because I've heard it ALL. Hell, I've USED THEM ALL during my many, many 'witnessing' sessions. I was witnessing at 10 years old.

If you want to argue, go somewhere else. All you are doing here is hurting people, disrespecting us, and proving to us we were right to leave the religion.

 

 

Your post struck a chord with me.  To be honest, I never really thought about the personal pain I might be causing people.  I knew that folks disagreed, but I really didn't think about pain.  We all know that this shit is tough for all of us.  I'm going to take your words to heart and stop being antagonistic.  I was mostly just having fun, trying to get the counterpoint argument to my arguments.  I actually enjoyed reading them.  However, I don't want to be an a-hole.  So, please accept my apology.

Thank you!

[florduh]

Freedom of speech ends at this board.  As soon as a Christian posts a contrary view, hordes of folks go screaming to the moderator to shut that person down.  Pathetic.  True freedom of speech is to say what you want even if it offends people.  I don't agree with 99% of what is posted on this board, but I would never suggest anybody be stopped from stating their opinions. 

Still doesn't get it. What would it take for this poor, persecuted believer to understand that contrary views are not the problem. He shouldn't expect agreement and back-slapping at this EX-CHRISTIAN website. 

 

He is free to express his opinions, but he is not free to expect agreement from EX-CHRISTIANS. That would be stupid, wouldn't it?

 

I no longer address him directly because he refuses to listen.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

Freedom of speech ends at this board.  As soon as a Christian posts a contrary view, hordes of folks go screaming to the moderator to shut that person down.  Pathetic.  True freedom of speech is to say what you want even if it offends people.  I don't agree with 99% of what is posted on this board, but I would never suggest anybody be stopped from stating their opinions. 

Still doesn't get it. What would it take for this poor, persecuted believer to understand that contrary views are not the problem. He shouldn't expect agreement and back-slapping at this EX-CHRISTIAN website. 

 

He is free to express his opinions, but he is not free to expect agreement from EX-CHRISTIANS. That would be stupid, wouldn't it?

 

I no longer address him directly because he refuses to listen.

 

 

I think maybe he gets it now, based on this:

 

 

 

I. Need. To. Heal.

I don't want an argument about faith, because believe me IVE HAD THEM ALL from your side! I've heard all the excuses. All the 'reasons' and all the false 'proof', the apologetics, all the scriptural verses Christians use to prove a point. BEEN THERE DONE THAT

You will NOT be able to give me any new information to change my mind, because I've heard it ALL. Hell, I've USED THEM ALL during my many, many 'witnessing' sessions. I was witnessing at 10 years old.

 

If you want to argue, go somewhere else. All you are doing here is hurting people, disrespecting us, and proving to us we were right to leave the religion.

 

Your post struck a chord with me.  To be honest, I never really thought about the personal pain I might be causing people.  I knew that folks disagreed, but I really didn't think about pain.  We all know that this shit is tough for all of us.  I'm going to take your words to heart and stop being antagonistic.  I was mostly just having fun, trying to get the counterpoint argument to my arguments.  I actually enjoyed reading them.  However, I don't want to be an a-hole.  So, please accept my apology.   

 

[florduh]

I think maybe he gets it now

 

We shall see.