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Exiting The Righteous Path?


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Jumping in late also, but I just read what you wrote to you MJ friend and I like all your answers.  Has she ever replied?  Or has she stayed all silent on you and is waiting for you to apologize?  That's just passive-aggressive bullshit, you know.  Your answers were truthful, honest, thoughtful, respectful, and heartfelt, and if all she can think of to answer is "Because god" so she has to ignore you, then forget her.

 

Are you sober yet?!?  You remind me of myself after I went through a divorce and realized I had NO friends after 15 years of marriage and the church "friends" totally abandoned us because they had no idea how to deal with the dreaded divorced people.  If I couldn't find someone from my pitifully small collection of acquaintances to talk to, I'd be like, "Damn it, I'll just sit here and drink."  (After my kids were in bed, of course, because I am so flippin' responsible.)  And I'd wallow in misery for a while.  It actually does help to do that on occasion (as long as it doesn't lead to a drinking problem)!!!  After months, I guess, of doing that, I finally went to work at making new friends which is NO PICNIC at age 40 and everybody busy and with kids and all.  I pouted and kicked and screamed a lot thru the process.  But after a few years I managed to make a couple good friends and a few friends that have come and gone already, passing by in life and moving on.  It's not easy.  It's not fun.  But it's possible.

 

And you did make that awesome observation, "With or without god, everything is possible."  Yes, it certainly is and you can do it.

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I am currently on the path to sobriety. I have been drinking throughout the weekend, but am resolving not to drink again for awhile. I rarely drink, so I do believe it was Valentine's depression + an awkward situation with a guy friend of mine that pushed me over the edge.

 

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I have talked to MJ since that email. I did apologize, but not for my views on God. I crossed a line, said some things about her and her marriage that I probably definitely shouldn't have, so it was like "Foot, meet mouth. Mouth, foot. Now that you two are acquainted, open wide..." I was in the wrong there, so yeah, it was the right thing to do.

 

Most of her opinions and stuff were of the "Because God" variety. She isn't a terrible person or really intolerant or whatever. She just can't see the world without God because she has been in the fold for all of her adult life. I mean, to her God is REALLY real, just as real as I am! I was like "Uh, yeah, NO."

 

Reasonable explanations cannot penetrate the deep fog of the deceptive reality of faith. I know this now, so I no longer discuss faith (or multi-level marketing schemes, abortion, vaccines, or many, many other things with her). It's like once she has her mind set about something, it ain't gonna change. I care about her and we still talk on occasion. I am glad that I am not doing this friendship for God anymore. I am being myself, however ugly and honest that may be. Sometimes I think she just doesn't like that I am willing to challenge her opinions. No one else does because she is, well...to be put it bluntly, a bitch. Or at least that's how some people see her, I think.

 

Some people can't handle a world without a caring, loving sky-daddy who made this all just for yous!! And so, yes, everything is possible, with or without God. It's all in the mind anyway and I am no longer willing to put fantastic flights of fantasy in the mind over the reality of matter.

 

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Are you sober yet?!?  You remind me of myself after I went through a divorce and realized I had NO friends after 15 years of marriage and the church "friends" totally abandoned us because they had no idea how to deal with the dreaded divorced people.  If I couldn't find someone from my pitifully small collection of acquaintances to talk to, I'd be like, "Damn it, I'll just sit here and drink."

 

 

Sounds like you had a pretty severe case of divorce cooties. tongue.png

 

Seriously though, it was pretty much like that for me last night. I didn't want to sit on my back porch chainsmoking and drinking alone in the cold, but I couldn't seem to locate a friend to talk to. I only have 3 trusted friends at this point. One is married with a baby and has severe Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I love her dearly, but the crazy is strong with that one. We don't talk much because she wrecked my car awhile back due to one of her OCD freakouts while I let her borrow it. We've moved past that, but it is still awkward between us.

 

My other close friend is the Christian person I spoke of on Valentine's day and she just found she is expecting this summer. Anxiety city for her and honestly, I can't deal with anything beyond the 4th circle of hell at this point with her. We just end up cat-fighting if we disagree and it's so not worth it. I drink to enjoy myself and ease my mind, not to get a lecture from the "I only drink responsibly and I would never take any mind altering substances because God....." team captain.

 

I ended up drunk emailing a friend that I am not really on good terms with last night just because I was so freaking lonely. And I was having some issues that I couldn't sort out.

 

Anyway, I need to get ready for work....

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seven, back in the mid 1980s I moved to Huntsville AL and there was a denomination called church of Christ with a church right behind me. An old roommate from college became church of Christ a couple yrs prior. I went to the church a few times and then said "these people are goofy" and stopped going. My old roommate stopped talking to me.  Your "friend" you posted the e-mails about should care less about your questioning your faith, but like I keep seeing over and over:  The brainwashing is strong!

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Seven, also read over the comments on the forums. Righteous path?????  You can say anything you want on these forums and should be fine, go to a Xian board and say something against the war or pat Robertson and you will be banned. Seems ex Christians follow a more righteous path and  Christians follow the self righteous path.

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Hello! Welcome to ex-christian! :) 

 

I agree with TheRedneckProfessor - you have an engaging writing style. I think your future posts are going to be anticipated. 

 

Thank you for the in-depth extimony, it really is fascinating hearing others' experiences.

 

I look forward to seeing you around! 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Sometimes I get stuck on things. A few days ago, I posted a rant about vaccines over on the rants board.

 

It really got me thinking about how I have changed these past few months. I used to accept alternative medicine, homeopathy, natural cures, toxins, detox/cleansing and other such things without much questioning. I was a conspiracy theorist who thought the likes of Mike Adams and Alex Jones were the only ones who cared about the little guys. Evil lurked around every corner, just waiting for a ripe piece of Christian soul-ass to steal.

 

One day I was watching Alex Jones and these fucking commercials for this "miracle" juice powder kept coming on like every five minutes. AJ shills a lot of things, or has in the past, everything from soap to iodine supplements to coffee to disaster readiness kits, so this latest product came as no surprise. However, as I heard the commercials over and over again and the testimonial from one of his staffers who supposedly lost 100 lbs while drinking it...I lost my faith. Little by little, day by day, as I watched his show....I realized that he isn't any better than the people he denigrates and harps about on the radio. He is out to make a buck and everyone should analyze his claims just as much as the other guy(s).

 

If I couldn't believe AJ or Natural News, if they were only out to make a buck like the rest...what if they were lying about it all? What if the fluoride in the water isn't going to turn us into zombies with bad teeth? What if vaccines weren't the tools of an evil eugenics campaign? What if our society isn't controlled by zionist satanist pigs who want to poison us, and kill 95% of us off so they can establish a brave new world? What if most of what they were saying was just fantasy spurred on by years of paranoid isolationism under the guise of Christian purity?

 

I realized that without the fear and black-or-white thought patterns...I didn't/couldn't believe in what they were saying. I began to question those around me in church as well. There was a lot of new age-y, mystical empowerment through a perfect love and pristine belief in a loving God going on there. People were blissed out on Jesus, always praying for some cause, always thanking the Lord when someone recovered from cancer or got a new job or met their monthly ministry fundraising goal. Everyone was always "stepping out in faith" and "accepting the grace of the Lord" with smiles plastered on their faces. It was fucking cheesy to me at the end. I was accused of being cynical and skeptical, giving off bad vibes, etc.

 

I hadn't been to church in several months when my ex-therapist [she is affiliated with the church] called me and asked me if I was available for a check in session. She said she wanted to ask me some questions. I was curious, but not overly so. I haven't been an actual patient in over 2 years and she knows most of my darkest secrets at this point...so what the hell, basically? I've visited her for chats and check ins before and they were never anything but pleasant. I went to her office and we made small talk for about 20 min or so.

 

Then shit got weird. She started asking me questions about demons, demonic possession, paganism, Satanism, spells, all of that sort of stuff. Given my background, I wasn't taken aback. I do know about that kind of stuff, although I was never into the woo heavily. She said I was the only person she knew well enough to ask about this kind of stuff and that google had not been helpful.

 

Apparently, she had seen a demon whilst painting her guest room at home. It popped out of the wall at her and she freaked out. I wanted to tell her that it was not a sign of evil in her home, that demons are made up bullshit, all that sort of thing. The demon was probably a hallucination due to inhaling paint fumes. Or maybe she was tired or her contacts were loose or she saw a reflection in the wet paint. Any of those things was more likely and more rational than claiming that a demon had invaded her home.

 

But because I enjoy fucking with Christians of all stripes, I did not tell her these things. Instead I sent her an essay loaded with links to the Church of Satan's website and rationalwiki. And some interesting youtube videos about the history of occultism, Satanism and atheism.zDuivel7.gif

 

I told her that demons are only as real as you allow them to be. For me, they are not real. I have had some strange experiences of my own. Some can clearly be blamed on marijuana/xanax or marijuana/ambien cocktails. Some can be blamed on the effects of unstable blood sugar levels (diabetic happenings, I say). Sleep deprivation and Christian guilt caused a few too. Really though...demons, angels, God, Jesus, the holy spirit, Satan, and bogeyman o. woomaster 5000 exist only in the minds of those who believe they exist. You create their reality.

 

And so I reached a conclusion that all of the Christian talk about purity of mind, guarding the mind, positivism, etc was all a bunch of horseshit. They talk about it, they preach it, they teach it, they believe it really hard....but in the end, they look for anything to make the evil bad guys real. Why? Because without the loopholes, the dreams, the voices in their heads, the hidden evidence in dusty files, reflections in the wet paint and evil all around them, their God is useless. Pointless. A fucking joke.

 

The end. cool.png

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Jones is basically an apocalyptic preacher. The world is about to end, the system is about to collapse any minute now. You better have all your guns locked and loaded because the one world government are coming to enslave you. 

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Seven, Welcome to ex-c! I have enjoyed your brutal honesty and your quest to find who you are and the struggle of what to do. It resonates with me and, I am sure, it resonates with others. Thanks for sharing what you've been dealing with because it helps me as well. I am in a much different situation, but I think that the struggle is much the same, just different characters and situations. Keep seeking, keep sharing, keep on moving. You will get where you feel comfortable in time.

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Seven77, your post about learning to not believe in all the Alex Jones stuff HUGELY resonated with me. That very same type of thing played a big role in my own deconversion. I never personally read a lot of Alex Jones stuff, but I was caught up in a lot of the same type of thing. I suffered massive anxiety over anything end-times. Teh evull Obama got elected? Scaaaary. The homeschooling website was warning about our parental freedoms being taken away? Terrifying. A bunch of dead dolphins washed up on a beach somewhere? Oh, snap, the end's on its way. 

 

I also suffered from a 15-year fear of December 2012. Which was weird, because most Christians rejected that as nonsense. And in a way, I did, too, but not completely. I first heard about 2012 back in 1997 or so. As the date crept nearer I became more and more anxious. When I got pregnant in 2009 I calculated how old my son would be when 2012 hit. When we were talking about getting pregnant again, I told myself, I'll get pregnant BEFORE March 2012 or AFTER January 2013 (if we're all still around), but I was terrified to have a due date in or near December. 

 

Well, I ended up getting pregnant twice in 2011 and early 2012, and miscarrying both times. I wanted so much to have another baby that I thought, December 2012 be damned, and I got pregnant a third time, with a due date of July 2013. I also remembered hearing before that December 21 might be the incorrect Mayan date, and maybe it was actually the 23rd. Then I thought about time zones. I spent the days of December 20, 21, 22, AND 23 constantly, obsessively checking my phone for the time and looking at the World Clock. The more world time zones moved through the scary dates, the more I let myself relax... but still not completely. 

 

When I woke up on Christmas Eve morning and the world was still here, it was the most indescribable feeling. I was 33 years old and the date I'd been dreading since my late teens was all for naught. I wasted EVERY SINGLE SECOND of that worry on absolute nonsense.

 

Something about that broke a huge chain. I told myself never, ever again would I get caught up in worrying about that kind of thing. I began to fact-check crazy stories and links that fearmongering Christian friends posted on facebook. When someone posted a link about how government agents were now allowed to enter our home without permission and check on how we were raising our children, under Obamacare, I immediately fact-checked, where in the past I would have allowed myself to practically hyperventilate with fear.

 

I posted a status update on my facebook that very kindly and assertively reminded people that they ought not to spread such nonsense stories, and the reasons why. Many people responded positively to my post. However, the woman who'd posted the Obamacare story was back at her old ways a couple days later with a new ridiculous story. She actually got called out by a different friend, and she responded by saying she didn't believe she was lying, look at how much Obama lies, etc., etc. She is one of my friends who is the most young-earth creationist and all of that.

 

The whole thing made me start looking at those types of people as, wow... if I can't trust them in this area (passing on silly fearmongering stories) then I probably ought to take a more critical look at their religious beliefs, also. Of course, I was already taking a more critical look, but do you know what I mean? It was just ONE MORE BUILDING BLOCK to contribute to the downfall of my Christian belief tower.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that your post resonated with me! Thanks for posting. :)

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Seven, you are my new hero for telling your therapist that her wall demon was real!  That was so funny!

 

Good for you for getting out of all of that.  jesus.gif

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Surely it was the enemy keeping me from church? My mentor said it was just me being lazy and scared. I wasn’t really a Christian, was I? My morale was pretty low and I finally did make it to church. Just in time to hear a testimony from a family whose son had survived a rare form of cancer. Everything was so “fantastic”, “blessed”, “miraculous”, “awesome”! No one else could see just how much bullshit their story really was. There was nothing special about it. The Lord had not healed him; modern medicine, science and the ability to access and afford high quality treatment had!

After I left church that morning, I drove past an empty field and thought of all the kids who died in the world. Kids die every day. I was feeling morbid and I wanted to tell these people that their son was not special, he was not chosen. He was just lucky. The odds had been in his favor. And he wasn’t out of the woods yet. Cancer is a quiet disease. It can be sneaky and the treatments themselves can be quite damaging.

 

 

During my time as a "believer" the only healings we'd ever see in the church were cancers or other treatable diseases.  I would praise God along with the others and it just never occurred to me that God wasn't healing anything incurable.  At the time my belief was so high "I will do whatever you ask in my name"...I was actually praying for myself (autism) and other friends with Down Syndrome believing that god might heal us as well. Wouldn't god get more glory from curing a Down Syndrome person than a cancer patient? It didn't occur to me that he wouldn't, that he couldn't.  It didn't occur to me that God was apparently intervening in so many situations but left my own family to die and left me heartbroken.  When I'd seek out some comfort all I got was the "serenity prayer", not the "miracles" that others were getting.  I'm glad I can think more critically and skeptically about these things now.  It either boils down to good/bad fortune or a god who plays favourites. 

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Seven, I am also gay, and I have spent time around many wonderful people like myself. If god is omnipotent, he would know exactly what he created. Furthermore, god would let me use my brain, and my logic, and science. Why would god need to hide? Why should you be anything other than exactly who you are. I love having "pride" you should too. Just my logic.

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