I Feel Like C.s. Lewis - "i Came Into Christianity Kicking And Screaming"

[Ranger26]

“I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.”

 

"I came into Christianity kicking and screaming"

 

This kind of explains how I feel. After reconverting and being out for 4 years I have come back to church (on some level I haven't). I go sometimes, and I don't go often. I have posted why I started going in "In and Out of Religion" post.

 

What's scary is that 2 years ago i was completely 100% against being a Christian but submitted because of certain things that happened that I couldn't explain away, and now, there is a big part of me that seems Christianity as good (on some level) and a positive influence on people's lives, encouraging them to be better people, be more generous, kinder, etc, etc. I certainly don't see that in my secular friend's who definitely in a need of a moral influence in their lives but are lacking one (however to be honest not all of them, so maybe I should choose friend's better. I certainly met many kind people outside of church now that I think about it). Anyways, why I am nervous is that my mind is accepting this faith as good now, and i have less fight left in me. I have less reasons to be on ExC, and less reasons to leave the church. I am of course only focusing on positive and good things as much as I can and don't believe the Bible (at least OT, NewTes and Jesus I still have debates over as I find many evidence of Christ, and his huge influence on many world's religions and spiritual teachings that are not religions. I have hard time convincing myself that all of that evidence is simply false).

 

So in a way I feel like C.S. Lewis, and I am thinking maybe i am just weak to "handle the truth", maybe I just don't want to change my life again, and commit to a certain way of living and thinking?

 

I hope this wasn't a rambling post, but as always, I appreciated your thoughts and ideas.

 

 

[slave2six]

Hey Ranger - I think you are mistaken if you think that the community here will in any way treat you like the Christians treated us when we left. Personally, I don't care if you're a Christian or not. If you are a decent person, that's what matters. (My best friend is Orthodox Christian and he's a really good person.)

 

Having no community is hard for humans in general. That's one aspect of church that I really miss. 

 

It seems to me that your reasons for returning aren't bad at all. If you were returning because you fear hell or are back into the making-god-happy mode then I'd say you have cause for concern.

 

That said, I highly doubt that you will really feel comfortable there. On some level, you know the doctrine is BS and you're going to feel like you are lying (either to yourself or the people in your church). How you are going to endure weekly sermons is a mystery to me. I've had so much of that crap that I can't even listen to commercials anymore.

 

I hope that you will find what you are looking for. 

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hello Ranger, I can relate to what you say. It took me years finally to come to a principled decision about Christianity. Much of the good that you speak of in it would be true, I think, of most religions that are worth anything. Judaism encourages one to be moral and just, for example, esp. the more reformed branches of it. It can be hard to live a centered life with good values without religious backing, so it doesn't surprise me about what you say about your friends. I'm sure you've seen how religion can fail to produce ethical character, too.

 

I just spent more time than I feel I should have done in going back over the issue of the Bible's inerrancy. Again I come to the conclusion that it doesn't stand up, and that evidence for its historical assertions is often lacking, or else there is definite counterevidence. when you look at the New Testament squarely, I think it's hard to defend it as inerrant about what we can test. What sort of revelation would an omni-everything God cause to be committed to writing? Would it be a mess like the NT, full of contradictions, historical inaccuracies, fake fulfillment of OT prophecy, etc.? It would be strange for the NT to fail in testible assertions and at the same time be normative for us in faith and morals, where its assertions cannot be tested. I haven't found much or any solid evidence for what we know of Christianity (i.e. the "Jesus cult") in the first century C.E., though there may have been messianic groups who used the term Christos for messiah.

 

I don't even start on the OT except to say that much of it is pure foundation myth for Judah, retrojected centuries or more into the past. If its historical stuff is bogus, why should people have to accept its legal stuff?

 

WHY should non-believers have Christian (or Jewish or whatever) beliefs forced upon them by government in spheres where the Golden Rule isn't operative: e.g. most opposition to same sex marriage comes from such groups. That makes a huge difference in my life, for example - fundy Christians (incl. Catholic Church) fight to delegitimize my marriage. Their position doesn't stand up to scrutiny, but they force it anyway whenever they can.

 

I think of our friend Bhim who finds important meaning and value in his ancestral Hinduism. If the brand of Christianity that you follow is doing good things in your life, that's cool. You talk about your mind accepting this faith as good. At the same time, you say that you don't believe in much of the Bible. I think you'll work out this disconnect between "good" and "true."

 

Stick around, bro, and let us know how things go. Happy new Year!

[moanareina]

...encouraging them to be better people, be more generous, kinder, etc, etc. I certainly don't see that in my secular friend's who definitely in a need of a moral influence in their lives but are lacking one (however to be honest not all of them, so maybe I should choose friend's better.

 

Yes it is part of the christian religion to encourage people to be good and do good and try to be better people. Yet the problem with that is, that it leaves people thinking that they are bad and need to become good and they never get there. For me it was such a relieve to finally not having to be good anymore. To just be honest. Not having to be nice to everyone in order to be a "good witness". Not having to love my neighbors whom I did not really know anyways. I do less "good" then I used to. But when I do, its real.

 

When I realized how much this need to become a better person kept me from being real and myself I also saw how many christians are having low self esteem. They constantly run around seeking change and never get where they think they should be. I can only speak of what I have seen of course. For me it is convincing that encouraging others to become better people is not the best you can do. I think it would be way much better to give people the confidence that they already are good people and the freedom to be real and appreciation for who they are right now. Now I have not seen that happen in church so far.

[pratt]

sorry ranger26,

 

i live in parts of asia where majority aint christians. there are kind people and there are evil people regardless of their religion.

 

religion has both good and bad influences depending where you stand.

 

but is the religion truth?

[Ranger26]

i like what Margee has to say. She is so honest and I kind of relate to her posts. I have triggers where I trully love the idea of a loving and kind Jesus wanting us to be better, wanting us to know God, and wanting this world to be a better place, but then I remember the jesus who inveted hell and wants me to go preaching to the world or else they are doomed. SO basically i feel like I am torn apart into two peaces....one that loves God and ones that hates the Christian God.

In any case, I thank you guys for posting and responding....

[Skankboy]

For me, it comes down to the sources.  Sufficient evidence has been found for me to not believe that the bible is the inspired word of god.  Thus the classic Lewis argument of "liar", "Lord" or "lunatic" falls flat for me.

 

I think you've hit on the most persuasive part of religion in general, the emotional payoff it can provide.  Certainty is a wonderful feeling and having others around you who are just a certain only reinforces that feeling.

 

For my money, I know find certainty in any propisition to be somewhat offensive, but that's been a LONG time coming and is certainly counter-intuitive.

 

All that being said, I wish you the best in your journey, wherever it may lead you.

 

IMOHO,

[RipVanWinkle]

Like slave2six I don't get upset because someone is a Xtian. The question is, what kind of person is she/he? Whatever works for you is right for you. But I have one warning. An Xtian (Or any person for that matter who believes that she has the one and only true religion and that everyone who does not agree is of the devil and is going to hell is more than just a pain in the ass. These people can be and have been dangerous. Look at Xtian history. Don't let the tail swag the dog. Doctrine in any religion is only good to the degree it promotes people to be kind, tolerant, loving, forgiving and truly humble. Pushing the beliefs on others is the opposite of humble. Good behavior and good attitudes should influence the doctrine and doctrine should influence behavior, Never should doctrine be in exclusive control with regard to its effect on behavior. Remember, doctrines are man-made and are not divine.I think one can pick and chose a lot of good things out of the bible using your common sense as your guide. Good luck and come back as much as you want.     bill

[Deva]

... Doctrine in any religion is only good to the degree it promotes people to be kind, tolerant, loving, forgiving and truly humble. Pushing the beliefs on others is the opposite of humble. Good behavior and good attitudes should influence the doctrine and doctrine should influence behavior, Never should doctrine be in exclusive control with regard to its effect on behavior. Remember, doctrines are man-made and are not divine.I think one can pick and chose a lot of good things out of the bible using your common sense as your guide. Good luck and come back as much as you want.     bill

 

Very well said.  There are many people who can just focus on some aspect of Christianity that they get inspiration from, or that helps them in some way.  In some way I don't completely understand, it helps them be better. I really believe that. It doesn't work for me, or for a lot of us here, but I have encountered it more than once.  Since we don't all have the same psychology, I am 100% sure that some people are benefited by being Christian.