Rationalism As "religion"

[pawn]

I was describing to my wife what it feels like for me to have lived 35 years walking in religious and superstitious delusion, and to have now awakened to the path of pure rational thinking.

The analogy I used to explain it was this: "it was like my whole life I relied on things like wishful thinking, prayer and other forms of magical thinking, and looking back at myself, it was like walking through a dark forest and bumping into trees and thorns. Now that I have finally rejected delusional magical thinking and embraced rational thinking as my guide in life, it is as if I finally discovered how to turn on a flashlight, and I am now walking through the dark forest of life with at least the aid of this light.... And it is SO much easier to walk through the dark forest of life with the flashlight of rational thinking, rather than stumbling in the dark with no light beyond an imaginary blind faith."

It has only been about 6 months since I completely rejected faith, and all forms of superstition in favor of pure logic and reason. My mood has improved, my thinking is clearer than ever. I haven't had any psychotic episodes or serious bipolar behaviors. I am making more money, more effective at my job and making much healthier, rational financial decisions than ever before. My mind is healthier and more LUCID than ever in my life.

If I had to describe my "religion" or my life philosophy at this point in my life, I would not hesitate to say Rational Thinking is my "god", or my life philosophy. I can tell you based on the last 6 months in contrast to my past, that RT has been a FAR more reliable "god" and life-guide than the imaginary and often ridiculous Jesus character ever was, or his egomaniac father for that matter! Yes, rational thinking is a far better guide than an imaginary Bronze Age god...

[mymistake]

Preach it, Brother Pawn!

[RankStranger]

Being rational is a damn effective thing, and it's got to be a breath of fresh air after decades of Jesus. But I wouldn't make it into a god. Logic is a great tool in lots of situations. But in some applications applying logic is like trying to eat with a chainsaw- it just isn't the right tool for the job.

[TrueFreedom]

It's good to see that science and rationality has helped you to get your bearings. I just hope that none of us fall into an alternate paradigm in which we think that we have come upon a new truth monopoly. We all have much to learn.

[pawn]

Being rational is a damn effective thing, and it's got to be a breath of fresh air after decades of Jesus. But I wouldn't make it into a god. Logic is a great tool in lots of situations. But in some applications applying logic is like trying to eat with a chainsaw- it just isn't the right tool for the job.

Yeah, it doesn't really fit as a "religion" or a "god". I was just musing, since I don;t have any god or religion any more, this is the closest thing as it is my "life-guide" now.

[pawn]

It's good to see that science and rationality has helped you to get your bearings. I just hope that none of us fall into an alternate paradigm in which we think that we have come upon a new truth monopoly. We all have much to learn.

Yes, and what you are saying is very rational, so it still fits the mold.

[Vigile]

Being rational is a damn effective thing, and it's got to be a breath of fresh air after decades of Jesus. But I wouldn't make it into a god. Logic is a great tool in lots of situations. But in some applications applying logic is like trying to eat with a chainsaw- it just isn't the right tool for the job.

Like when your wife asks 'do I look fat in these pants?'

 

But seriously, my wife and I watched Woodie Allen's Crimes and Misdemeanors last evening and the closing lines sum up so well this point you make here I think:

 

We are all faced throughout our lives with agonizing decisions. Moral choices. Some are on a grand scale. Most of these choices are on lesser points. But! We define ourselves by the choices we have made. We are in fact the sum total of our choices. Events unfold so unpredictably, so unfairly, human happiness does not seem to have been included, in the design of creation. It is only we, with our capacity to love, that give meaning to the indifferent universe. And yet, most human beings seem to have the ability to keep trying, and even to find joy from simple things like their family, their work, and from the hope that future generations might understand more.

[mymistake]

 

Being rational is a damn effective thing, and it's got to be a breath of fresh air after decades of Jesus. But I wouldn't make it into a god. Logic is a great tool in lots of situations. But in some applications applying logic is like trying to eat with a chainsaw- it just isn't the right tool for the job.

Yeah, it doesn't really fit as a "religion" or a "god". I was just musing, since I don;t have any god or religion any more, this is the closest thing as it is my "life-guide" now.

 

 

I took it as a metaphor.

[pawn]

On a totally related topic, Stephen Hawking came out with a film about this very thing. He attempts to explain the meaning of life and the universe using rational thinking and scientific method.

 

It's called "Stephen Hawking's Grand Design" it's on Netflix right now, and I HIGHLY recommend it .

[RankStranger]

 

Being rational is a damn effective thing, and it's got to be a breath of fresh air after decades of Jesus. But I wouldn't make it into a god. Logic is a great tool in lots of situations. But in some applications applying logic is like trying to eat with a chainsaw- it just isn't the right tool for the job.

Like when your wife asks 'do I look fat in these pants?'

 

But seriously, my wife and I watched Woodie Allen's Crimes and Misdemeanors last evening and the closing lines sum up so well this point you make here I think:

 

We are all faced throughout our lives with agonizing decisions. Moral choices. Some are on a grand scale. Most of these choices are on lesser points. But! We define ourselves by the choices we have made. We are in fact the sum total of our choices. Events unfold so unpredictably, so unfairly, human happiness does not seem to have been included, in the design of creation. It is only we, with our capacity to love, that give meaning to the indifferent universe. And yet, most human beings seem to have the ability to keep trying, and even to find joy from simple things like their family, their work, and from the hope that future generations might understand more.

 

 

Yeah, something like that.  I'm not saying I disagree- but I don't have a firm enough grasp of these ideas to specifically comment on that quote.

 

Logic is great for solving specific questions, forming strategies, etc.  I mean when it comes to things like math, mechanical/electrical troubleshooting, simple well-defined true/false questions, etc.- there is nothing better.  I can cut through that shit like a knife.  And IMO it works fairly well on larger scale problems like finances, psychology, politics, economics, business, etc.- though you definitely need more than logic to understand these fields.

 

But when it comes to more squishy human endeavors like emotions, spirituality, motivation, love, friendship, sexuality, etc... it seems to me that plain logic pretty well breaks down.  Sure it can help you spot outright bullshit- it's a HUGE advantage to be able to determine what is NOT true.  But that doesn't necessarily yield understanding.  I think that requires intuition, initiative, empathy... things that I don't fully grasp.  I'm not dismissing these like lots of logic-fetishizers do (and like I've done plenty of times in the past)- just saying that I don't quite know how to approach such intangible thingies.

[amateur]

Rationality Rocks!

[miekko]

Lots of people overestimate what exactly rational thinking encompasses, what kind of conclusions it can be used to reach, and finally, do not realize how it applies to areas outside of their expertise. (A very common example of the last is whenever people try to reason about linguistics, generally, the results are ugly and dumb even when very smart people are involved.)

 

I hope you realize these risks exist, as lots of deconverts from christianity go overboard into a kind of superstitiousness-like logic that is very flawed. This flawed thinking is a bit like cargo cults - if something looks like rationalism, it must have the same effects as rationalism has. That makes it even more insidious, as it gets difficult for people to realize they're leading themselves astray by faux-rationalism. Any attempt to question their flawed rationalism they might see as an attack on proper rationalism, and refuse to accept constructive criticism.

 

I've seen it way too often, and I am afraid that kind of pseudo-rationalism is where we're going to get the next kind of religion from.

[amateur]

^^^Changed my mind.  Rationality doesn't rock.

[mymistake]

Don't let that scare ya.  It's just that rationality is hard work.  You have to protect yourself from your own bias and the pitfalls.  Sure it isn't easy but it sure beats irrationality.

[miekko]

Don't let that scare ya.  It's just that rationality is hard work.  You have to protect yourself from your own bias and the pitfalls.  Sure it isn't easy but it sure beats irrationality.

Indeed, that is really the point I want to drive home. Alas, the main increase we're seeing is not an increase in actually rationalist people, but an increase in cargo-cult rationalist people. Cargo cult rationalists need to be reached and helped to overcome the obstacle at which they've gotten stuck.

[Blood]

 

It has only been about 6 months since I completely rejected faith, and all forms of superstition in favor of pure logic and reason. My mood has improved, my thinking is clearer than ever. I haven't had any psychotic episodes or serious bipolar behaviors. I am making more money, more effective at my job and making much healthier, rational financial decisions than ever before. My mind is healthier and more LUCID than ever in my life.

 

Kind of like being "born again," eh? 

[♦ ficino ♦]

Glad to hear this, Pawn!

[pawn]

Cogito ergo sum.

[♦ ficino ♦]

'Course you realize that now God has to send you to hell (unless you repent before you die). Too bad your free will trumps God's desire that all be saved.

[Antlerman]

Rationality is a tremendous tool to embrace to free us from the clutches of fear and superstition. Embrace it without fear. Let it take you free from dogma to explore beyond those who claim to have the answers. You will find your own way through that maze.

[Blood]

I was describing to my wife what it feels like for me to have lived 35 years walking in religious and superstitious delusion, and to have now awakened to the path of pure rational thinking.

 

The analogy I used to explain it was this: "it was like my whole life I relied on things like wishful thinking, prayer and other forms of magical thinking, and looking back at myself, it was like walking through a dark forest and bumping into trees and thorns. Now that I have finally rejected delusional magical thinking and embraced rational thinking as my guide in life, it is as if I finally discovered how to turn on a flashlight, and I am now walking through the dark forest of life with at least the aid of this light.... And it is SO much easier to walk through the dark forest of life with the flashlight of rational thinking, rather than stumbling in the dark with no light beyond an imaginary blind faith."

 

It has only been about 6 months since I completely rejected faith, and all forms of superstition in favor of pure logic and reason. My mood has improved, my thinking is clearer than ever. I haven't had any psychotic episodes or serious bipolar behaviors. I am making more money, more effective at my job and making much healthier, rational financial decisions than ever before. My mind is healthier and more LUCID than ever in my life.

 

If I had to describe my "religion" or my life philosophy at this point in my life, I would not hesitate to say Rational Thinking is my "god", or my life philosophy. I can tell you based on the last 6 months in contrast to my past, that RT has been a FAR more reliable "god" and life-guide than the imaginary and often ridiculous Jesus character ever was, or his egomaniac father for that matter! Yes, rational thinking is a far better guide than an imaginary Bronze Age god...

 

I don't want to discourage you, but there's a price to pay for rational thinking. It's what Socrates realized when a friend told him that the Oracle at Delphi revealed that he was the wisest man in Athens. After conducting some research, Socrates understood this to mean that the only way he could be the wisest man in Athens was that while everyone else thought they knew everything, he, alone, could sense the depth of his own ignorance. 

 

Truly rational thinking begins with the humble recognition of the vast ocean of knowledge that no single person will ever be able to grasp in one lifetime. But this isn't depressing. It's exhilarating, knowing that humanity has achieved so much from starting with so little. 

[Ouroboros]

I don't want to discourage you, but there's a price to pay for rational thinking. It's what Socrates realized when a friend told him that the Oracle at Delphi revealed that he was the wisest man in Athens. After conducting some research, Socrates understood this to mean that the only way he could be the wisest man in Athens was that while everyone else thought they knew everything, he, alone, could sense the depth of his own ignorance. 

 

Truly rational thinking begins with the humble recognition of the vast ocean of knowledge that no single person will ever be able to grasp in one lifetime. But this isn't depressing. It's exhilarating, knowing that humanity has achieved so much from starting with so little.

This reminds me of what Joseph Campbell said (not sure if he was quoting someone else), “He Who Thinks He Knows, Doesn’t Know. He Who Knows That He Doesn’t Know, Knows.”