Adam5 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hi All Here in the UK the church of england (US equiv. episcopalian) has been accused of dumbing down baptism by removing the requirement to repent of sins and reject the devil. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25611288 As we know here, religion is dumbed down enough already I didnt know it could get any dumber!! However these recent changes have upset some important clergy. The language is being changed from Elizabethan English to 'culturally accessible' language. "Parents and godparents are no longer asked to “reject the devil”, “repent of sins” or “submit” to Christ under the new wording, aimed at making the service easier to understand." "The congregation is no longer asked to “submit to Christ as Lord” as the idea of submission is considered too controversial, particularly for women." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10551738/Church-of-England-accused-of-dumbing-down-christening-service.html I think, if the clergy dont really believe it, what IS the point? Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 This is the sort of thing that used to drive some Anglicans to Rome. Don't know whether these changes will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 This is the sort of thing that used to drive some Anglicans to Rome. Don't know whether these changes will do the same. Hi Ficino, yes it may have that effect. However the watering down of Christianity I think just causes them to decline. It is the liberal Churches like the Anglicans/Episopalians that are in the most decline, and the evangelical ones which are holding their numbers or growing. Its a catch 22 because when they try to modernise to respond to criticism that they are stuck in the past, they see their numbers fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 How can you dumb down an already idiotic ritual? That's like saying the new season of Redneck Swamp Men has been dumbed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 "Parents and godparents are no longer asked to “reject the devil”, “repent of sins” or “submit” to Christ under the new wording, aimed at making the service easier to understand." I became the godfather for a Russian relative in a Greek/Russian orthodox church in PA. The priest interviewed me before the ceremony and I told him I was an atheist. He just laughed and didn't have a problem with this fact. I was never asked to reject the devil or repent. Dunno if that's a difference between the COE and orthodox or if this priest was a bit of a rogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 "Parents and godparents are no longer asked to “reject the devil”, “repent of sins” or “submit” to Christ under the new wording, aimed at making the service easier to understand." I became the godfather for a Russian relative in a Greek/Russian orthodox church in PA. The priest interviewed me before the ceremony and I told him I was an atheist. He just laughed and didn't have a problem with this fact. I was never asked to reject the devil or repent. Dunno if that's a difference between the COE and orthodox or if this priest was a bit of a rogue. I think a lot of these rites and practices were just something some clerics made up on the hoof a long time ago. The rites vary widely between denominations. Which indicates no holy spirit is present as they all clearly teach different things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well from a purely objective viewpoint I would say that this change does indeed diminish the significance of the religious rite of baptism. Again from a purely objective viewpoint, I would encourage people to take strong note of Ficino's and Adam's comments to the effect that the liberalization of churches drives some people to fundamentalism. Thus, we who wish to live free of Christianity's influence should not take this as a definitive sign that Christianity's influence is declining. Perhaps this is a holdover from my Christian days, but part of me is annoyed by people who practice a faith without taking it seriously. Of course when I step back and think from a more self-interested standpoint, I realize that it's always a good thing when fewer people preach authentic Christian faith, because this necessitates hatred of us non-Christians. Adam, maybe you can help me out here since you're from the UK. In the US, Episcopalians are highly liberal Christians whose beliefs have none of Christianity's offensive elements such as eternal conscious torment of non-Christians, hatred of people with "alternative" lifestyles (e.g. gays, hippies, or whatever else), or attempts to use the government to enforce Christianity. Are Anglicans in the UK essentially the same? Because I've seen a wide variety of Anglicans elsewhere in the world, and some are as conservative as American evangelicals. I'm curious how diverse the Anglican crowd is in the church's home country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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