Why Be Selfless?

[Ouroboros]

The hopelessness of the world still exists whether or not I believe in Christianity.  In fact even more so because there is no great ending for those who suffer; dying won't bring them into paradise.  They just ... die.. in pain.  And that's all they will have ever known.

 

This makes me wonder - why be selfless at all then if it has no lasting impact?  If nothing lasts, then why not spend my very few days (which used to number infinite and now number just over 70 years, if I'm that lucky) only to satisfy myself?  Why not live everyday to enjoy the most pleasurable experiences possible?

If you're 70 maybe it won't matter as much, but when you're younger being selfless will gain points with your community, family, friends, etc and you'll have a better life for it. Caring for someone else is a gamble, but the payoff can possibly be that they will care for you too. It's a win-win.

 

Without the sacrificial, selfless Jesus Christ who loves everyone unconditionally as the role-model in my life, I now have no idea what to live up to.  There is no longer even an "up."  So why try at all?

Because you can gain from it. You can be selfless for a selfish reason.

 

(I know that for some of you, Jesus was not a positive figure in your life.  But in the Christianity I knew, His example of Love was only good).

 

I'm sure some of you will say that objectively helping another human will make one feel the best anyway.  But I don't know if I buy that.  Of course I "feel good" when I help someone, but I also "feel good" when I make a completely selfish choice.   I just don't have the guilt that follows the latter anymore, or the example (Christ) that comes with the former.

Sure. You can feel good about running a red light, but you know that if we all were running red lights, you'd be in a greater danger.

[Ouroboros]

The whole idea of survival of the fittest, Darwinism, social evolution -- I think all would be in alignment with living selfishly.  Make yourself the most "fit" possible; spend no unnecessary energy helping the "unfit."

There's evidence that some illness might be beneficial for survival, sickle cell for instance. Social evolution isn't only about the benefit for the individual but for the benefit for the group.

 

This sounds terrible, but without a god to judge me on it, why is it not true, from a completely logical perspective?

Because you live in a collective (unless you decide to buy a cabin in the wilderness and grow your own food, completely off the grid).

[Ouroboros]

Interesting -- altruism linking itself to the survival of our species?  I'll do some research.  That idea sense in the long run.

 

But what about the now?  Meaning... what do I care if humanity survives or not, if I'm going to be dead before it happens anyway?

What about your future self? That's not important? Your own survival might depend on other people, so why not play the game and be part of the community for your own benefits? You can gain more than you give by being altruistic at times. The key is to know when it maximizes everyone's benefits.

[Jedah]

 In an ironic and round about way, I don't think it's possible for a person to be 100% selfless. The very fact that your existence and perception of reality is from the perspective of one person - yourself, means that each and every one of us will always be the center of our own world. It's logically impossible for us to be anything else.

 

The reason I act according to my own understanding of ethics is because I don't want to be like the people I have met in my life who don't care. I see how people who only act in their own interests and don't give the slightest fuck about anyone else negatively affect the world. Hell, I'm sure we all have seen how dirtbags create problems for everybody. As a result, I selfishly act selfless purely as a matter of personal pride. I don't want to be one of the shitstains on this planet.

 

Here is the thing about religion: it's all placebo. Religion doesn't actually explain anything, but rather serves to comfort people in their state of ignorance. It serves as an easy nonsense filter to otherwise difficult philosophical questions, not as an answer to them. Why are bad things bad? Gawdsayso. How did *insert scientific problem here* come to be? Gawddidit. Why...*insert anything else you can't understand here*? You guessed it! Gawd. And this is where the real mindfuck comes in: As a Christian, you never really knew why you should be a good person anymore than you do now. The difference between morality as a non religious person isn't that you don't know, it's that you now know that you don't know. As a religious person, you simply stifled your lack of understanding with a magical sky wizard. You never actually understood anything at all, you just thought that you did! And yet for some reason despite your ignorance you decided to be a good person anyways... so why stop?

[seeker001]

There is not much I can add that people haven't already mentioned, but think of it this way. How do you benefit by being disrespectful to the people around you?  How many people will be willing to put up with people who only think of themselves? How is stealing from someone else and causing mayhem for the lols and being in general chaotic evil not going to attract unwanted attention? Don't you think that other people will eventually seek retribution and put down a threat? Someone throws a rock through one window may be willing to toss into another window, and it could be mine.  No one lives in a bubble and we have to deal with other people at some point, and every action has a consequence.

 

There is a lot more to be gained through being civil to others and participating in the give and take exchange.  You help me and I help you.

[ApostateAwoken]

The hopelessness of the world still exists whether or not I believe in Christianity.  In fact even more so because there is no great ending for those who suffer; dying won't bring them into paradise.  They just ... die.. in pain.  And that's all they will have ever known.

 

This makes me wonder - why be selfless at all then if it has no lasting impact?  If nothing lasts, then why not spend my very few days (which used to number infinite and now number just over 70 years, if I'm that lucky) only to satisfy myself?  Why not live everyday to enjoy the most pleasurable experiences possible?

 

Without the sacrificial, selfless Jesus Christ who loves everyone unconditionally as the role-model in my life, I now have no idea what to live up to.  There is no longer even an "up."  So why try at all?

 

(I know that for some of you, Jesus was not a positive figure in your life.  But in the Christianity I knew, His example of Love was only good).

 

I'm sure some of you will say that objectively helping another human will make one feel the best anyway.  But I don't know if I buy that.  Of course I "feel good" when I help someone, but I also "feel good" when I make a completely selfish choice.   I just don't have the guilt that follows the latter anymore, or the example (Christ) that comes with the former.

 

If other people suffering makes you conclude that life is hopeless, why don't you infuse some hope and try to make the world a better place? If everyone does that then theoretically the world will get more hopeful day by day.

 

As for a secular reason as to why you should think beyond yourself, you should because it's good for you. By benefiting others you are more likely to get benefits in return, as well as fitting into society (fulfilling both a developmental need and ensuring that you will be taken care of). Furthermore, if you take care of others it is likely that you will feel better about yourself which will make you a happier person as well. 

 

If you make a totally selfish choice, sure, you'll feel good at the moment, but the future might not bode as well. For example, if you cheat on your wife, you may temporarily feel great about it, but then going through the divorce and not having a stable life partner (as well as all the guilt) will probably not make it worth it to you.

 

So, is there any solid reason why being selfish is wrong? No, there's nothing wrong with being selfish (in the purely moral sense, that is), but if you live that way, you will probably find that your selfish self is not enjoying it.