MerryG Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Are you aware that quoting from the bible -- a book that most here have read and many here have studied intensely -- won't persuade anybody? All that's been done before. The people here have already concluded that the bible's a bunch of myths, folktales, horror stories, and rules for controling people. If you want either to teach or learn, you'll first develop some understanding of who we are and how we got here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fernweh Posted January 24, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 24, 2014 Do you consider a book that begins with a talking snake and ends with a seven headed dragon to be non-fiction? 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I haven't seen Jesus yet. he's not on earth right now. I have faith that I will one day. As far as me proving he existed there are ancient documents, besides the Bible, that mention him. I know I will be asked "Prove God exists." If I could do that I would be rich and sipping drinks on the beach in Florida. I can will explain why I believe God exists, but I cannot prove scientifically God exists. Science has not been able to prove God does not exists. Actually there aren't very many documents that mention Jesus (or actually "Christus" or Chrestus" - which is a title, not a name) and those are not contemporary, nor is he mentioned by the historians of the day - AT ALL - at least one later one is a forgery. There is serious doubt in the historical community that the person described in the gospels actually existed at all, or was maybe a mythological syncretistic construct, or could have been based on a few different cult leaders at the time… it's all hearsay though since the gospels weren't written until WAY after the fact by anonymous authors. Even these have been edited and added to later - as the closest 'originals' we have don't actually correspond to the Bible you have in your bookshelf. Then there's the Council of Nicea - which had TONS of 'christian' texts but chose the ones they wanted and discarded (read: destroyed, in most cases) those that didn't 'fit' with the councils agreement on what was to be included. Sooooooo… what CAN you answer then? Just wondering. Not trying to be rude or overly aggressive - but you asked for questions and then basically disqualified any actual questioning based in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 'He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." ~Colossians 1:15 I will read your ;ink. I hope you realize that Colossians 1:15 is the CLAIM, not the evidence. In fact, that's all the entire Bible is -- just a set of claims (unsubstantiated assertions). Evidence, if any, would have to be found somewhere else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 24, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2014 I haven't seen Jesus yet. he's not on earth right now. I have faith that I will one day. So, you pretend to know that jesus is real and that you will see him someday. How cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Do you consider a book that begins with a talking snake and ends with a seven headed dragon to be non-fiction? Fernweh, I see your location is Sehnsucht. That "yearning" is the God-shaped vacuum inside of you, which only the living God can fill. QED lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Science has not been able to prove God does not exists.Science has also not been able to prove that the Loch Ness Monster does not exist, or Big Foot, or Leprechauns. Is this a sufficient reason to accept that they do exist? Uh, you've seen A&E right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 :::sigh::: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 24, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2014 Science has not been able to prove God does not exists.Science has also not been able to prove that the Loch Ness Monster does not exist, or Big Foot, or Leprechauns. Is this a sufficient reason to accept that they do exist? Uh, you've seen A&E right? Leprechauns DO exist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Doubter, I agree there are ancient documents concerning other gods. I believe the God as reveal in the Bible. Jesus is the visible image. There are ancient documents other than the Bible that mention Jesus. I'm new here and have been fumbling around with the copy/paste thing.(not working for me) Also I'm not sure of the forum guidelines on posting outside links. Google>>>>Historical Evidence Jesus Existed>>>A post by an atheist. The Thinking Atheist Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadTOm Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 While it's certainly possible that Jesus existed, I'm 100% positive that his abilities were greatly exaggerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Thanks, anyone who reads the post by the atheist should agree (or agree to the possibility) that he did exists in history. The miracles I accept by faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Why is God invisible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I didn't stop being a Christian because I became convinced that Jesus didn't exist. I do think, though, that extra-biblical evidence for Jesus is not solid. The extrabiblical reference to Jesus that gives the most details is the so-called Testimonium Flavianum, in Josephus' Antiquities, 18. Proponents of Jesus' messiahship can't get any mileage from it because it is laced with stuff that Josephus could not have written. It does not fit in context. The best explanation is that it is a later, Christian addition to the text by someone who thought Josephus should have talked about Jesus. Cf. http://www.academia.edu/4062154/Olson_A_Eusebian_Reading_of_the_Testimonium_Flavianum_2013 Josephus mentions in passing a James brother of Jesus, but it is not clear that he was referring to the James of the NT; this passage also is contested, for example, by Carrier: http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=summary&url=/journals/journal_of_early_christian_studies/v020/20.4.carrier.pdf Pliny, Suetonius and Tacitus mention "Chrestus/Christus/Chrestianos" etc. (spelling varies) but do not talk about Jesus. Some people think a Christ cult preceded the gospel stories and that the stories were made up later to flesh out the figure of an original, heavenly savior. Whatever the truth of that, one at least must be cautious, because even the NT says that there were various messiahs/christs floating around. Assuming that these three references are to persecution of members of the Jesus of Nazareth cult, these authors knew each other, and we have no basis for supposing that their information came through independent channels. Richard Carrier argues, for example, that Tacitus got his info from Pliny, so the testimony boils down to what Christians may have been saying in around 110 CE. BUT there is also significant problem with Tacitus' account of Nero's persecution of Christians in Annales 15.44. Like the TF, it does not fit well in context. There is a lot of discussion on it, with some references, on this thread over on earlywritings: http://earlywritings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=344 I did a fair amount of research into claims that the tomb of Peter lies beneath the Vatican basilica. It seems in fact that there is nothing from earlier than the mid second century. I can give you info if you want. I don't know what website you referred to above. Was it this? http://www.patheos.com/blogs/camelswithhammers/2013/10/on-atheists-attempting-to-deny-the-historical-jesus/ Anyway, if you know of solid, extrabiblical and EARLY evidence for facts about Jesus, please let us know of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Thanks, anyone who reads the post by the atheist should agree (or agree to the possibility) that he did exists in history. The miracles I accept by faith. I do not accept the possibility that Jesus Christ was based on a historical person. Jesus Christ was as real as Superman, Batman and Spiderman. Okay, you accept the miracles by faith. Why do you accept the miracles of just one religion on faith and not the miracles from all other religions? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 24, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2014 The miracles I accept by faith. Why? There are lots of other extraordinary claims with no less evidence that you choose to reject. Do you think perhaps it's more a function of culture and a geographical accident of birth rather than veracity that causes you to choose to believe the Christian myth over the Islamic or Hindu myths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 The miracles I accept by faith. Why are you here, peddling faith and bible quotes to people who've been there, done that, and moved on? Seriously, what is your motivation for talking to us in terms we've already examined and rejected? Don't you get that the name of this forum is EX-Christian.net? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted January 24, 2014 Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2014 Why is God invisible? Blood, this was one of the biggest questions I ever had about our invisible god also.... even as a Christian. The fact that 'he' could create the whole world - I mean...think about it.... he made all living and non living things ..and yet could not turn his invisible 'self' into visible, that the world would know without a doubt or without having to live by 'faith' alone that he exists? All these magical powers to make the earth, the whole universe and life.. and still cannot make himself visible. If he could make himself visible, he would get his wish, wouldn't he? - that everyone of us who he created would be saved from his hell that he also created? The bible teaches that god is not willing that any should perish. God has supposedly put everything he can between a lost soul and hell ....the bible, the bloody cross, the churches that preach jesus christ and gospel preaching on 'faith'. (it is by 'faith' that you are saved) Therefore we must believe with out seeing. He supposedly tells us from his book how to pray for anything and move all the mountains in our lives. God tells us that he is not willing that anyone be lost or suffer. He supposedly has put every barrier, every stop sign, every blockade, between you and me and hell that he could possibly put??? And his wish is that he wants everyone to be saved? That is the teaching of scripture. So he has given us a book, and a human sacrifice, preaching from the pulpit that we can move mountains...and 'he' can't even make himself visible for us?? The creator of the whole universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadTOm Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Thanks, anyone who reads the post by the atheist should agree (or agree to the possibility) that he did exists in history. The miracles I accept by faith. FYI, the name directly above everyone's avatar, in my case "doubter", is their member title. It's automatically determined by the forums. Their name is above that, highlighted in blue. I am most certainly not a doubter. I have no doubts at all that christianity is not only untrue, but does more harm to the world than good. You also make the assumption that we are all athiests, this is not true. We are ex-christians. As has been pointed out to you numerous times now, we were christians at one time. I was for the first twenty-five years of my live. I went to church, sunday school, several bible studies and several youth groups. At my peak fanaticism, I was attending five christian based functions a week. I was also a counselor at a bible camp for a brief time. I know the bible. I know the arguments. There are some here with much more christian education in their backgrounds. Some ex pastors, some attended seminary school, many people here know just as much about your religion as you do, if not more. Stop assuming that you know anything that people here don't know. You are also not the first christian to come in here presenting your "evidence". You are not presenting any arguments that we haven't heard before. In fact, we've all become pretty well armed with intelligent rebuttals because we've heard this tripe so many times. You're also incorrect that anyone here "should" believe or accept anything I, or anyone else says, at face value. What everyone "should" do is research on their own and form their own beliefs and opinions, which you'll find that many have already done, in great detail. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 http://www.jesusneverexisted.com But that's not why I don't believe anymore. That would take more than a plethora of posts to explain. Let's just say I have found through much study and seeking that the Bible is nothing more than a collection of writings by bronze-age goat-herders. Sure, there's some good stuff, but mostly, no. It's actually pretty horrific. The Sumerians have their own sacred texts, they predate the Hebrews (not just the OT, but the actual people/race/whatever) by 1000's of years. Quite a bit of Genesis is taken from their mythology. Yahweh is a Canaanite storm/war god, son of El, the most high god of Canaan. Watch this.. lots of good info here: If you would like us to listen to you then you should be willing to look at our stuff too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Doubter, I agree there are ancient documents concerning other gods. I believe the God as reveal in the Bible. Jesus is the visible image. Jesus cannot be the visible image if he can't be seen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Thanks, anyone who reads the post by the atheist should agree (or agree to the possibility) that he did exists in history. The miracles I accept by faith. I've known a lot of guys named Jesus. So what if there was one 2,000 years ago? The only things that make that Jesus special are the myths that surround him. Myths. Not facts. Not historical accuracies. Myths. Comprendes? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Thanks, anyone who reads the post by the atheist should agree (or agree to the possibility) that he did exists in history. The miracles I accept by faith. Okay, you accept the miracles by faith. Why do you accept the miracles of just one religion on faith and not the miracles from all other religions? Good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 24, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2014 Science has not been able to prove God does not exists.Science has also not been able to prove that the Loch Ness Monster does not exist, or Big Foot, or Leprechauns. Is this a sufficient reason to accept that they do exist? Uh, you've seen A&E right? Actually, no. I don't have regular TV service or cable. I use a Roku box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 24, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2014 The miracles I accept by faith. This is just a simpler way of saying, "I pretend that certain alleged phenomena associated only with my particular deity really happened." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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