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ironhorse

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We need a new Christian here. This one's boring.

 

Ask and ye shall receive.

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We need a new Christian here. This one's boring.

 

Ask and ye shall receive.

 

I don't think the christian we got today is exactly "new". 

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We need a new Christian here. This one's boring.

 

Ask and ye shall receive.

 

I don't think the christian we got today is exactly "new". 

 

 

Orly

 

Can you elaborate?

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We need a new Christian here. This one's boring.

 

Ask and ye shall receive.

 

I don't think the christian we got today is exactly "new". 

 

 

I think you're right.

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Suspicions that the newest robot-for-jesus is the latest incarnation of Steve Bennett.  

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OoOoOoOoOo so I'm witnessing a 'resurrection' right now

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Yeah..another miracle...he's performed what.. 4 or 5 here?  lol

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We can't BE SURE... but the writing style is similar sans the 24 pt font.

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We need a new Christian here. This one's boring.

 

AMEN!

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Sunday Dispatchurbation.

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Damn, I really missed out on this forum The Sunday DispatchTM

 

Thanks for making this a hilarious read everyone!

 

Especially Ironhorse. I simply don't understand why you think posting and immediately jumping in your getaway car is going to do much good.

 

Look, I know you really REALLY REALLY REALLY want to add somebody here to your conversion sash or belt or crown or whatever. But you really ought to not waste any more your life finding the perfect quote each Sunday for us. I can use the internet to find "inspirational" quotes on Sundays by myself. Or any day of the week really. 

 

Perhaps your Facebook feed is a better place for The Sunday DispatchTM. Your fellow Christians will appreciate and fawn over your out of context quotes and I'm sure you'll get some likes and shares out of it. All will undoubtedly boost your sizeable ego to even greater heights. 

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I have Christian friends who could probably do a much better job of engaging in these discussions. But they are probably smart enough to stay away because they know it would not be a productive use of their time.

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Sunday Dispatch.17

 

 

"To me, He's put enough in this world to make faith one of the most reasonable things. He's left enough out to make it impossible for me to live by sheer reason alone."

 

~Ravi Zacharias

I wonder how many of these quotes we can make vastly better by adding "for me" or "to me" to them. I've tried it above, and I think it's a definite improvement.

I wonder with what manner of torture Ravi Zacharias' Hindu ancestors were threatened before they converted to Christianity.

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Sunday Dispatch.17

 

 

"To me, He's put enough in this world to make faith one of the most reasonable things. He's left enough out to make it impossible for me to live by sheer reason alone."

 

~Ravi Zacharias

I wonder how many of these quotes we can make vastly better by adding "for me" or "to me" to them. I've tried it above, and I think it's a definite improvement.

I wonder with what manner of torture Ravi Zacharias' Hindu ancestors were threatened before they converted to Christianity.

 

 

Two questions:

 

Are you saying the Gospel is spread by torture and forced conversions?

 

What do you know about Ravi Zacharias' conversion to Christianity?

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Are you saying the Gospel is spread by torture and forced conversions?

 

 

Well you didn't think it became so popular world wide by being peaceful now did you?  Islam copied Christianity.  Ever hear of the Dark Ages?  The Spanish Inquisition?  The Witch Hunts?

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"Are you saying the Gospel is spread by torture and forced conversions?"

 

Mostly, yes, it has been. Especially in South America, North America, Northern Europe and large parts of Africa. History is full of the brutality of christian conversion tactics.

 

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0LEVw3kin5TOhwAu5FXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0YTNuMmQxBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDQzOF8x?_adv_prop=image&fr=aaplw&va=christian+conversion+atrocities

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-atrocities-415-to-782.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1000-to-1099.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1189-to-1197.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1204-to-1229.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1231-to-1255.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1257-to-1310.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1321-to-1349.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1360-to-1391.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1392-to-1393.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1400-to-1464.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1465-to-1490.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1492-to-1493.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1494-to-1498.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1500-to-1528.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1532-to-1554.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1555-to-1571.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1572-to-1592.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1593-to-1595.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1600-to-1612.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1616-to-1624.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1630-to-1634.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1639-to-1648.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1654-to-1675.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1683-to-1696.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1700-to-1738.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1739-to-1780.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1797.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1800-to-1838.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1839-to-1864.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1879-to-1892.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1905-to-1915.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1919-to-1928.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1976-to-1998.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-1999.html

 

http://www.historyofchristianity.info/christian-history-2000-to-now.html

 

Catholic extermination camps:
Surprisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practicing Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children! Mass murder was performed here.

Crimes against Pagans:
1. Assoon as Christianity became legal in the Roman Empire by imperial edict (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
2. Pagan services became punishable by death in 356.
3. In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
4. Pagan slaughter followed numerous years passed this!

Specific Persons killed by Christianity/Catholicism:
1.In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities.
2.The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob
3.Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded.
4.John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415.
5.Michael Sattler, leader of a baptist community, was burned at the stake in Rottenburg, Germany, May 20, 1527. Several days later his wife and other follwers were also executed.
And thats just 5...

Various Crimes and Crusades:
1.Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany.
2.15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Number of victims unknown.
3.First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41] 
Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23] 
9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then Turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27] 
Until January 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30] 
Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of Palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone.
4.After 6/3/98 Antiochia (then Turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women and children) killed. 
5.Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis.
6.Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (Jewish, Muslim, men, women, children).
7.Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ".
8.Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148] 
 
Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone). [WW224] 
9.Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. 
10.Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29] 
The Albigensians (Cathars) viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept Roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC] 
 
Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III (the greatest single mass murderer prior to the Nazi era) in 1209. Beziérs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Number of victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic 
neighbors and friends) estimated between 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181] 
Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. [WW181] 
And that's just 10....

2 Ending well-detailed Stories
1.16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde". 
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage.
 
2.Crusades Eye Witness Reports...
In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude." 
 
The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished."
 
Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of Palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". 
 
One million victims of the first crusade alone.
 
 
 
 "Late in the tenth century Russia was converted when Prince Vladimir adopted Christianity. His subjects were given the choice of Christian baptism in the river Dneiper or drowning in it. Vladimir is now a saint.
 
Soon afterwards Norway was converted under King Olav (or Ólafur) Tryggvasson, again largely at the point of the sword. He found elaborate ways to kill those who refused to become Christians. According to Heimskringla, an Old Norse saga, written Snorri Sturluson) he had male völvas (shamans) tied up a skerry at ebb, so they drowned slowly as the tide came in. Other leaders who refused to convert to Christianity were killed in other ways. Eyvind Kinnrifi was killed by having a brazier of hot coals placed on his belly. Raud the Strong's murder was even more imaginative. The king ordered him to be bound to a beam with his face pointed upward. Olaf ordered a drinking horn to be put into Raud's mouth, and forced a snake in by holding a red-hot iron at the opening of the horn. It is not clear whether the snake poisoned or suffocated him.
 
Otto's army met the armies of King Harald I of Denmark and Haakon Jarl the ruler of Norway under the Danish king, at Danevirke, near Schleswig. When Otto won a large battle there, he forced Harald and Haakon convert to Christianity, along with with their entire armies. Other Scandinavians, Slavs, and many other peoples were converted in the same way. Olaf too is now a saint."
 
 
"The Spanish capture of the Inca Empire gives a good idea of the methods used and the contemporary standard of Christian morality. The Spanish laid a ambush for Atahualpa, the Inca (ie the Inca Emperor) at Cajamarca in 1532. A Dominican friar Vicente de Valverde went out to greet Atahualpa, armed Spanish troops having concealed themselves. The friar invited the Inca to come inside to talk and dine with the Spanish commander, Pizarro. Atahualpa demanded the return of everything the Spaniards had already stolen since they landed. Valverde then spoke about the Catholic religion, probably delivering a standard speech called the requerimiento, This speech required the listener to submit to the authority of the Spanish Crown and accept the Christian faith. Valverde gave the Inca his breviary which, he threw away.
 

spacer.gifValverde hurried away calling on the Spanish troops to attack. Spanish infantry and cavalry came out of their hiding places and charged the Inca's retinue, killing many of them, while the rest fled in panic. Pizarro led the charge on Atahualpa and managed to capture him. The Spaniards later sacked the Inca camp, where they found great treasures of gold, silver, and emeralds. Attempting to ransom his life, the captive Atahualpa offered to fill a large room once with gold and twice with silver within two months. But treasure only bought a little time. After a few months the Spanish staged a trial and found Atahualpa guilty of revolting against the Spanish, practicing idolatry, and other crimes. He was sentenced to execution by being burned alive. Atahualpa was horrified by this, since (like the Catholics) he believed that his soul would not be able to go on to the afterlife if the body were burned. Friar Vicente de Valverde told Atahualpa that if he agreed to convert to the Catholic faith, he would have the sentence commuted. Atahualpa agreed to be baptized into the Catholic faith and was given the name Juan Santos Atahualpa - even though it was clear that he was converting only to avoid being burned. Atahualpa was strangled with a garrote on August 29, 1533. Following his execution, his clothes and at least part of his body of were burned, and the remains given a Christian burial. The Inca Empire was now Spanish."

 

"Wherever they arrived, the pattern was much the same, forced conversion, destruction, torture and murder. In 1557, Pedro de Santander, an official of the Catholic Church, spelled out the King Philip II of Spain the biblical justification for killing the indiginous peoples of Florida:
 

 

Quote: This is the Land of Promise, possessed by idolaters, the Amorite, Amulekite, Moabite, Canaanite. This is the land promised by the Eternal Father to the Faithful, since we are commanded by God in the Holy Scriptures to take it from them, being idolaters, and, by reason of their idolatry and sin, to put them all to the knife, leaving no living thing save maidens and children, their cities robbed and sacked, their walls and houses levelled to the earth.

 

The French experience was similar, but less intense as it lacked papal support. Some Indians adopted new ways once disease and violence had decimated their communities. Others rejected European ways, and pointed out the arrogance of their claims of cultural superiority. Some of the Indian leaders put their cases in ways that have strong resonance today (to be recorded by traders rather than missionaries). One Micmac chief, tired of hearing about the superiority of France and French Catholics, was moved to remark "Learn now, my brother, once for all, because I must open to thee my heart: there is no Indian who does not consider himself infinitely more happy and more powerful than the French."
 

(Cited by Stephen T Newcomb, Pagans in the Promised Land, Fulcrum Publishing, 2008, p 50)

 

 

Cortés, the leader of the Conquistadores was another keen Christian. He carried around with him an image of the Virgin Mary. The primary aim of his expedition to the Americas was "to serve God and spread the Christian faith". His record was even worse than that of Columbus. Here is an extract from a proclamation read out by the Conquistadores to their new subjects:

 

 

Quote: The Lord God has delegated to Peter and his successors all power over all people of the earth, so that all people must obey the successors of Peter (i.e. the Pope). Now one of these popes has made a gift of the newly discovered islands and countries and everything that they contain to the kings of Spain, so that, by virtue of this gift, their Majesties are now kings and lords of these islands and of the continent. You are therefore required to recognise Holy Church as mistress and ruler of the whole world and to pay homage to the King of Spain as your new lord. Otherwise, we shall, with God's help, proceed against you with violence and force you under the yoke of the Church and the king, treating you as rebellious vassals deserve to be treated. We shall take your property away from you and make slaves of your women and children. At the same time, we solemnly declare that only you will be to blame for the bloodshed and the disaster that will overtake you.

 

They apparently genuinely believed that they were colonising on behalf of God. The country now known as El Salvador was originally baptized by Spanish conquistadors as “Provincia De Nuestro Señor Jesucristo El Salvador Del Mundo” (“ Province Of Our Lord Jesus Christ, The Savior Of The World”).

 

 

The story was much the same in the East. Christian missionaries believed themselves to be inspired by God. This gave them justification for conquering lands, vandalising possessions, burning down houses, kidnapping children, and forcibly converting everyone they came across - Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, animists, even Christians belonging to ancient Christian sects, as in Goa. As in early times, new converts were encouraged to terrorise their neighbours and even their own families. Here are a few quotations from the Jesuit Saint Francis Xavier, documented from his letters by a fellow Jesuit:

 

"When I have finished baptizing the people, I order them to destroy the huts in which they keep their idols; and I have them break the statues of their idols into tiny pieces, since they are now Christians." 
(Costelloe, M. Joseph, S.J. The Letters and Instructions of Francis Xavier. St. Louis: Institute of Jesuit Sources, 1992 pp 117-8)

 

"When a sinner refused to listen to his words, and was deaf to arguments and appeals drawn from the terrors of hell or the sacred memories of the Passion of Christ, Xavier seized his scourge and beat his bared shoulders until the blood ran, to soften that hardened heart."
Costelloe, M. Joseph, S.J. Saint Francis Xavier, Apostle of India and Japan, The America Press, New York, 1919, P38

 

"When all are baptized I order all the temples of their false gods to be destroyed and all the idols to be broken in pieces."
Letter From Francis Xavier in Cochin to the Society of Jesus at Rome, January 27th, 1545.

 

 

http://www.badnewsaboutchristianity.com

 

 

This is not a complete study of christian violence, atrocity and abuse of power… but a fair representation. I started studying this when I began to research the history of the Reformation… and followed it from there. YES.. the gospel has been spread by torture, war, forced conversion…inquisition, genocide, crusades, social control, politics and terror. Throughout history.

 
It's a fucking abhorrent abomination on the earth, from day one until now.

 

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the message of christianity comes in a warship,,,,, heard of that? or that was just asia?

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Ravenstar, from the link you posted this was at

the bottom of the page in small print:

 

"This site is for educational purposes, all info is historical facts or logical opinions that can be verified through many sources with some research. Most of this information is kept hidden from the public view, and it is our duty to expose it."

 

 

We disagree I guess. I think a view that the spread of Christianity is the result of threats and torture is not

verified by history.

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Are you stupid?  What you quoted me is the very thing I'm trying to tell you… it CAN be verified… these things happened.

 

No… WE don't disagree. I am presenting facts…not pulling an opinion out of my ass. You are refusing to look at the evidence or even consider that there is evidence.

 

This is apparent because it would take a reasonably literate person at least an hour to even graze the material I linked to. Everything is cited…. it isn't made up opinion.. that's what CITED means. You can cross reference if you like…(which is why things are cited) I only posted enough to start with.

 

If even one quarter of it was true (and it's MUCH MUCH more, probably more like 90% accurate because I've read these accounts in many other places and from many different authors) it's horrendous. It's MILLIONS of people, tortured, killed, intimidated, coerced, degraded… can't you see the sickness of it?

 

You are so dead wrong… it's willful ignorance - it's blindness and stupidity on a level I can not comprehend.

 

You sir, are deeply internally dishonest.

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Are you stupid?  What you quoted me is the very thing I'm trying to tell you… it CAN be verified… these things happened.

 

No… WE don't disagree. I am presenting facts…not pulling an opinion out of my ass. You are refusing to look at the evidence or even consider that there is evidence.

 

 

 

But your evidence disagrees with God.   If evidence and God do not agree do you know which one must be wrong?   jesus.gif

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GAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!  Wendybanghead.gif

 

The lack of any kind of basic logic and reasoning skills drives me batty! Even as a christian I was never this completely whack-a-doodle. (probably  one of the reasons I got out… I am teachable, at least a little bit)

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Are you stupid?  What you quoted me is the very thing I'm trying to tell you… it CAN be verified… these things happened.

 

No… WE don't disagree. I am presenting facts…not pulling an opinion out of my ass. You are refusing to look at the evidence or even consider that there is evidence.

 

 

 

But your evidence disagrees with God.   If evidence and God do not agree do you know which one must be wrong?   jesus.gif

 

 

 

Have you ever thought that your view of the evidence might be wrong?

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What a troll.  Waste your time providing a mountain of evidence to educate him, and he replies with a few flippant words.  I am so done with ironhorse.  6072c3f98f422cbfe116f89220478223.thumbna

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