Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted August 13, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2014 Ironhorse believes that you HAVE to answer his questions when he asks them, Prof. So, you... HAVE TO DO IT... because he believes you do. He can believe anything he wants, but action is where rubber meets the road. If he wants answers; he'll give answers. If he doesn't give answers he exposes himself as dishonest, disingenuous, and hypocritical. The lurkers would, I'm sure, appreciate seeing that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 "I have seen and done all of these things and I can and will answer your "query"." ~TheRedneckProfessor That was the attitude TheRedneckProffessor showed you from the start. He has the right to change his mind due to your rude behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Sunday Dispatch.676 "Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." ~ Luke 12:6-7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 and god let kids die in africa,,,, fuck your stupid arrogrant prick's god 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Sunday Dispatch.676 "Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." ~ Luke 12:6-7 I remember this passage being taught to me as a child. It's intended to make the person feel special so they will buy the product. I think it's sick to market that to children and vulnerable adults. Most of humanity is "forgotten by god", those who lived and died before the alleged life of "jesus", and those who never heard the story. Then there are those who suffer, which includes many xians. They're forgotten by "god" too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Sunday Dispatch.676 "Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." ~ Luke 12:6-7 Courtesy of the SAB: "And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." -- Leviticus 26:29 "And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters." -- Deuteronomy 28:53 "And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them." -- Deuteronomy 28:57 "Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm." -- Isaiah 9:19-20 "And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine." -- Isaiah 49:26 "And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend." -- Jeremiah 19:9 "Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers." -- Ezekiel 5:10 "I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another." -- Zechariah 11:9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Sunday Dispatch.676 "Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." ~ Luke 12:6-7 What about those of us who are balding? Does God love us more or less? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucynia Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Once I started to study this verse, I didn't find it so comforting. This is talking about the birds sold at the temple as the cheapest sacrifice that poor people could make to appease their blood-thirsty god. Even when it's trying to be compassionate and nice, the bible is a bloody, twisted book. I also don't like the 'good shepherd' imagery about Jesus. Shepherds in the ancient world didn't keep sheep for funsies. They did it to survive. Sheep weren't pets; they were food, clothing, survival. Finding lost sheep wasn't because the shepherd loved the sheep (unless he loved them physically? There is a command about not having sexytimes with animals. Why do you need to tell people not to screw the sheep?). It was because his survival was on the line if too many got away. So yes, I am worth more than the cheapest (cheepest? Sorry I can't resist bad puns. It's genetic.) sacrifice to a god that demands payment for imaginary crimes. I'm worth far more than the bible says I am. I'm worth more than the church says I am. We all are! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Sunday Dispatch.676 "Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." ~ Luke 12:6-7 Aaah, how many times have I heard and read that verse...let me count...I guess I can't...because it is TOO MANY... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Sunday Dispatch.676 "Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. I Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." ~ Luke 12:6-7 Does he know how many I have on my tushie too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Sunday Dispatch.676 "Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." ~ Luke 12:6-7 What about those of us who are balding? Does God love us more or less? Well, of course God loves baldies. The Bible tells us so. Not only does he think "you are worth more than many sparrows." He thinks balding prophets are worth more than the lives of 42 kids -- and he's willing to send murderous, rampaging bears to prove it. Such a loving god. 2 Kings (2:23) "As he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head." (2:24) "And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them." 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Once I started to study this verse, I didn't find it so comforting. This is talking about the birds sold at the temple as the cheapest sacrifice that poor people could make to appease their blood-thirsty god. Even when it's trying to be compassionate and nice, the bible is a bloody, twisted book. I also don't like the 'good shepherd' imagery about Jesus. Shepherds in the ancient world didn't keep sheep for funsies. They did it to survive. Sheep weren't pets; they were food, clothing, survival. Finding lost sheep wasn't because the shepherd loved the sheep (unless he loved them physically? There is a command about not having sexytimes with animals. Why do you need to tell people not to screw the sheep?). It was because his survival was on the line if too many got away. So yes, I am worth more than the cheapest (cheepest? Sorry I can't resist bad puns. It's genetic.) sacrifice to a god that demands payment for imaginary crimes. I'm worth far more than the bible says I am. I'm worth more than the church says I am. We all are! these lines made my day. And yes, we are worth much more than the bible and church say we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Once I started to study this verse, I didn't find it so comforting. This is talking about the birds sold at the temple as the cheapest sacrifice that poor people could make to appease their blood-thirsty god. Even when it's trying to be compassionate and nice, the bible is a bloody, twisted book. I also don't like the 'good shepherd' imagery about Jesus. Shepherds in the ancient world didn't keep sheep for funsies. They did it to survive. Sheep weren't pets; they were food, clothing, survival. Finding lost sheep wasn't because the shepherd loved the sheep (unless he loved them physically? There is a command about not having sexytimes with animals. Why do you need to tell people not to screw the sheep?). It was because his survival was on the line if too many got away. So yes, I am worth more than the cheapest (cheepest? Sorry I can't resist bad puns. It's genetic.) sacrifice to a god that demands payment for imaginary crimes. I'm worth far more than the bible says I am. I'm worth more than the church says I am. We all are! Interesting. I never thought about it that way...but now that you have mentioned I can't un-think it. Thanks sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Sunday Dispatch.676 "Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." ~ Luke 12:6-7 I'm sure this verse makes you feel quite special, certainly more worthy than many other individual living organisms on this planet Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Thinking about it...Ironhorse, why actually do you have the need to elevate yourself over other beings? I think this world would be way healthier when people would have remained respectful of nature, plants, animals, all that belongs to it instead of starting to think superior and exploit it. Why do you need a verse that tells you to be better than those sparrows? Worth more? Why can't you find worth in just being you and leave the sparrows have their equal worth too just in a different way? Because they are important for the ecosystem and might contribute more to this planets health and therefore ability to provide for you than you might think...just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 Thinking about it...Ironhorse, why actually do you have the need to elevate yourself over other beings? I think this world would be way healthier when people would have remained respectful of nature, plants, animals, all that belongs to it instead of starting to think superior and exploit it. Why do you need a verse that tells you to be better than those sparrows? Worth more? Why can't you find worth in just being you and leave the sparrows have their equal worth too just in a different way? Because they are important for the ecosystem and might contribute more to this planets health and therefore ability to provide for you than you might think...just a thought... I agree with most of you say. I don't agree with saying an animals life is worth as much as a human life. Which may not be what you mean. You said equal just in a different way. C.S. Lewis presented a view on animal theology in his works. http://www.carolsnotes.net/2013/12/c-s-lewis-on-animal-immortality/ I also have a book printed in the 1930s titled Why Do Men Suffer? by Leslie Weatherhead. He has a chapter devoted to the suffering of animals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Weatherhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 You know Ironhorse...I really don't care what CS Lewis's views are nor any other person who lived in the twentieth century. I am interested in YOUR own views that you came up with by examining reality as it presents itself around you and not based on literature or whatever. But I guess you are unable to think on your own because you have chosen to be stupid as I mentioned in the other thread. You have chosen to not use your own brain and ability of critical thinking because Gods mind and ways are beyond yours and so you don't even have to try but trust only...I really feel sorry for you. So if you can ponder this question on your own and give an answer that is based on your own ability of judgment and critical thinking I am interested in what you say, if you come up with another quote or another author who did all the thinking and you just took it at faith please DONT EVEN BOTHER. I have read enough of that stuff and I rather have a discussion with YOU than CS Lewis since he is dead and YOU are not his representative. OK here you go: Why is the thought of you being equal in worth to a sparrow troubling to you? I mean of course we care about our own species more than we do about other species. But in the end we are all sharing the same earth. We all depend on each other and while the ecosystem is out of balance we will see more and more how we actually messed up our own livelihood by our superiority thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator Popular Post TheRedneckProfessor Posted August 18, 2014 Super Moderator Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2014 Considering animal life to be of less worth demonstrates a clear lack of understanding concerning how eco-systems work. You really should do a bit more research in the natural sciences, Ironhorse. Every species plays a crucial role in maintaining the balance of their environment, even the common housefly. Remove just one species, or even just too many members of one species, and the entire environment could collapse. Do you think the lives of mushrooms are worth less than humans? Were it not for them, and other detritivores, the entire surface of the earth would be covered in miles of organic matter which would radically alter the environment, from an over-abundance of carbon in the soil to upward changes in temperature. Without mushrooms, Earth, as we know it, would likely be uninhabitable. C.S. Lewis may disagree, but he was a writer of fantasy, and for good reason. god is not responsible for the harmony found in nature, evolutionary necessity is. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Actually, when one considers the immense damage humans have done to nature, mushrooms are considerably more valuable than humans. bill 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucynia Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 FTNZ - glad someone found my quirky humor amusing! Sometimes I just need to laugh at religion so I don't scream. Moanarina - theres so much in the bible that's presented as being happy and good but is really twisted. I try to point it out when such a thing is called good. Like Roz being sure to call christians out on the Old Testament nastiness. ( hey Roz, I think you're awesome!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Considering animal life to be of less worth demonstrates a clear lack of understanding concerning how eco-systems work. You really should do a bit more research in the natural sciences, Ironhorse. Every species plays a crucial role in maintaining the balance of their environment, even the common housefly. Remove just one species, or even just too many members of one species, and the entire environment could collapse. Do you think the lives of mushrooms are worth less than humans? Were it not for them, and other detritivores, the entire surface of the earth would be covered in miles of organic matter which would radically alter the environment, from an over-abundance of carbon in the soil to upward changes in temperature. Without mushrooms, Earth, as we know it, would likely be uninhabitable. C.S. Lewis may disagree, but he was a writer of fantasy, and for good reason. god is not responsible for the harmony found in nature, evolutionary necessity is. Here's the deal Prof. And granted I'm not understanding, but something sounds suspicious. You said evolution is random, but at some point don't higher level organizations have the ability to choose vs. random? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Here's the deal Prof. And granted I'm not understanding, but something sounds suspicious. You said evolution is random, but at some point don't higher level organizations have the ability to choose vs. random? Not unless you count modern medicine. We can test a fetus and abort if the parents don't like the result. Did you choose your children's gender? Did you choose their hair color or eye color? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 "Why is the thought of you being equal in worth to a sparrow troubling to you?" ~moanareina "Do you think the lives of mushrooms are worth less than humans?" ~TheReckneckProffessor "Actually, when one considers the immense damage humans have done to nature, mushrooms are considerably more valuable than humans." ~ bill "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." ~Matthew 10:20-31 "Yet not one of them falls..." was the reason I added the two references of Lewis and Weatherhead. I believe God takes care of the animals. My thoughts on what is most valuable? Lets say lived in an apartment and in the apartment opposite me lived an elderly man I did not know. I come home and find both dwellings on fire. Inside my apartment is my pet dog and in the other the elderly man. Who would I go to try to rescue first? the man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted August 19, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 19, 2014 Considering animal life to be of less worth demonstrates a clear lack of understanding concerning how eco-systems work. You really should do a bit more research in the natural sciences, Ironhorse. Every species plays a crucial role in maintaining the balance of their environment, even the common housefly. Remove just one species, or even just too many members of one species, and the entire environment could collapse. Do you think the lives of mushrooms are worth less than humans? Were it not for them, and other detritivores, the entire surface of the earth would be covered in miles of organic matter which would radically alter the environment, from an over-abundance of carbon in the soil to upward changes in temperature. Without mushrooms, Earth, as we know it, would likely be uninhabitable. C.S. Lewis may disagree, but he was a writer of fantasy, and for good reason. god is not responsible for the harmony found in nature, evolutionary necessity is. Here's the deal Prof. And granted I'm not understanding, but something sounds suspicious. You said evolution is random, but at some point don't higher level organizations have the ability to choose vs. random? You are confused, End3. The ability of higher life forms to make choices concerning certain aspects of their lives has nothing to do with the subtle mutations in the germ line that drives the evolutionary process. Certainly, monkeys have the choice between picking lice off their mates or hurling feces at their enemies. Neither of these choices is going to impact the environment to such as extent that selective pressures are place upon the monkeys. With that said, we can, and sometimes do, make choices that lead evolution into a certain direction. We see this in the number of different dog breeds currently alive. Just a few thousand years ago, there were only wolves, no dogs. A few of the wolves were instictively less afraid of humans; and these would catch the scraps of food from human encampments or caves. These few were able to survive more easily than their wilder counterparts who had to live rough. Eventually, a small group of wolves became "domesticated", trading food and shelter for their ability to provide security. Then, man started to selectively breed for certain desired traits, and the rest is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 "Why is the thought of you being equal in worth to a sparrow troubling to you?" ~moanareina "Do you think the lives of mushrooms are worth less than humans?" ~TheReckneckProffessor "Actually, when one considers the immense damage humans have done to nature, mushrooms are considerably more valuable than humans." ~ bill "Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." ~Matthew 10:20-31 "Yet not one of them falls..." was the reason I added the two references of Lewis and Weatherhead. I believe God takes care of the animals. My thoughts on what is most valuable? Lets say lived in an apartment and in the apartment opposite me lived an elderly man I did not know. I come home and find both dwellings on fire. Inside my apartment is my pet dog and in the other the elderly man. Who would I go to try to rescue first? the man It's all bullshit. Sparrows die all the time. God must be incompetent if God is always trying to care for sparrows that constantly die. And Christians constantly die as well. Christians die of old age, accidents, disease and illness at the same rate as everybody else so it is a fact that this Bible verse is wrong. It is designed for fooling Christians into believing that their imaginary friend is watching over them when nothing happened. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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