Guilt

[Margee]

I was thinking to myself this morning about the amount of guilt that I have felt over my whole life. I'm serious...I think I felt guilty for everything! Even when I did real good and was following the bible to the best of my ability....I still felt guilt. I always was down on myself constantly thinking I could have done better. I was one of those arrogant Christians (I use that term with a hint of sarcasm to mean that I thought I was one of the 'chosen' ones... Lol) that thought I had to save the whole world.

 

I even thought I caused my mom and dad's marriage breakup because my dad told me once that they 'had' to get married because mom was pregnant with me.

 

 I thought I had to be nice to absolutely anybody in my path because god was going to use me to change them. What a joke. I even stayed in an abusive marriage thinking that god was going to turn things around for me. Guilt, guilt, guilt.....I was constantly guilty for my thoughts and actions. If I didn't read my bible everyday, I was guilty. If I thought a 'sinful' thought (gossip, anger, envy, sexual, etc..) I felt guilt.

 

It's nice to have a good conscience.... but when one lives in a constant state of guilt thinking that you could have done better, it's very hard on a persons brain...because it can keep you in a constant mindset of depression.

 

It's so good to be relieved of some of this today. I still can be very hard on myself but it's getting better everyday and the low lying depression I have felt my whole life is lifting. What a beautiful relief!!

 

Some mornings, I just have to get this stuff off my mind. Anybody else suffer from this terrible, toxic emotion of guilt?

 

*hugs* to you all today

[Bob903]

Marlee, I really like the way you write. I eagerly consume the words you give.

 

What age bracket were you in when you acknowledged you were non religious? I am looking to get a conversation going among the 50 and older crowd. I see a lot of young people on this site, I sure wish I had the exposure and guts they had. Enough said I spent my life entrenched in religion. As you mention, failure, guilt, missing gods will; these are the major control tools used on us. If only we had listened better to gods will, if we had prayed harder, if we had the faith, etc, etc......

 

Thank you for your hug, take one from me. I know in your head there is no guilt and no sin and no missing the mark, or high calling of god. I am 66 years old. I have been out of the closet maybe eighty percent for five months. Learning to reprogram my brain is not easy. But, it is natural. I am at a place where I know I have no sin and no hell. And of coarse no heaven. But, for fun, no guilt!!

[par4dcourse]

I was bad to relive past mistakes, and I also have a habit of mentally rehearsing upcoming events. When I feel either of those coming on I say firmly to myself "no rehearsing, no rehashing, the present is all there is."

[Deva]

I was in my mid-forties before I saw the light. Life was very tough trying to be a Christian when my mind said "no" to so much of it. I really wanted to believe it, like I did when I was 12, but life is not like Christianity presents it.  The older I got, the more I realized it.  I was brainwashed and I had to work on myself and really want to be free.  There were so many years when I just drifted along and tried to make it work some way.

 

Like you, Par4, I like to rehearse things and it holds me back. At least half the times all the rehearsing I do doesn't come out to be what actually happens. Its hard to just live in the now, and I think for myself its because I just don't have enough trust or faith in myself to believe I can succeed. I think this was originally brought on by my Christian upbringing.  It is all so insidious, and affects us in ways we cannot imagine.  But we have the duty to ourselves to identify the problems and solve them.

[xtify]

I could never enjoy things as a Christian.  There was always the end of the world thing looming, but there was also the constant feeling guilty about anything that I found enjoyable.  I felt guilty for being born and living in Canada and having even a lower/middle class lifestyle.  I just couldn't understand why God had chosen for me to be born here when so many more people in this world were suffering and struggling to survive.  I would always pray for the children, asking, "Why God, why?"  Whenever I was 'blessed' with anything, I gave it away thinking I was unworthy.  If I went on vacation, I just couldn't soak it up.  The guilt was always there.

 

Ohhh, the joy of shame and the shame of joy!  

[Voice]

Good words, Margee.  You're making progress, it's good to see.

 

Yes, I'm afflicted with it too.  In 2004 I had a life-changing revelation (I still don't know how or why) with insight into guilt.  I observed how men (and probably women but less) hunt humans for those who suffer guilt.  When they find them, they take advantage of them.  Predacious men.  It made getting my own guilt under control a serious priority.  I suppose it gets a little better each year, I'm controlled less and less by guilt.

And I do suffer depression.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I was bad to relive past mistakes, and I also have a habit of mentally rehearsing upcoming events. When I feel either of those coming on I say firmly to myself "no rehearsing, no rehashing, the present is all there is."

Ugh, when I replay the major mistakes I made in pursuit of "god's will" I feel like crawling under a huge stone and never showing my face in public again.

[decafaholic]

You know, Margee, years ago when I came onto the forum freaking out and beating myself up because I had accidentally flipped off my boss's father (a minister) it was you who calmed me down by telling me to chalk it up to the mistakes we make when we're young. I think you were so good at talking me down from my guilt because you know what it's like to suffer from it yourself.

 

I live in a house with my fiancee and our roommate Nathan, and all of us were raised in church and Christian school, later growing out of our religion in our early 20's. Nathan mentioned the other day that he has a really hard time with replaying past situations and mistakes over and over and over in his mind and I said "Oh my God! I do that too! It's what gets me up in the morning!" I think it's sadly normal for Christians to live under a sense of guilt and those thought patterns take years to break.

 

I've improved a LOT though and I think what has helped besides this forum is being in a relationship with someone who does not struggle with guilt. At all. My fiancee has a conscience but he NEVER beats himself up unnecessarily. It think it's partly his personality and partly that even though he went to a Lutheran school, he didn't go to church as much as I did. I tease him constantly about how his parents wasted their money on his Christian education because he knows nothing about the Bible. Years ago we were driving down the road and I said something about the concept of tithing and he replied "What's tithing?" 

 

Anyway, I digress. What I've learned from my fiancee is that when I obsess over something, the world is not falling apart the way I think it is. I've confessed a lot of things to him about my past that I thought he would freak out about and he just laughs every time. I am certified in making mountains out of molehills. 

 

Maybe our personalities make us more susceptible to guilt, or maybe it's just the fact that we're female, or we're empathetic. I don't know if we'll ever be totally care free, but I know we can make progress.

[zuker12]

I've got my guilt under control somewhat. The fear I've had in the past few days has been much intensive than the guilt I've had over anything in some 2 years.

 

Back then, I used to feel guilt a lot. Once I lost my faith, I started obsessing about weight control and "healthy" lifestyle. Something like anorexia, I guess. Which was another guilt trip for me. It seems I had some 5-8 years full of guilt trips, but I've gotten them under control, mostly.

[EternalEquinox]

I was thinking to myself this morning about the amount of guilt that I have felt over my whole life. I'm serious...I think I felt guilty for everything! Even when I did real good and was following the bible to the best of my ability....I still felt guilt. I always was down on myself constantly thinking I could have done better. I was one of those arrogant Christians (I use that term with a hint of sarcasm to mean that I thought I was one of the 'chosen' ones... Lol) that thought I had to save the whole world.

 

I even thought I caused my mom and dad's marriage breakup because my dad told me once that they 'had' to get married because mom was pregnant with me.

 

 I thought I had to be nice to absolutely anybody in my path because god was going to use me to change them. What a joke. I even stayed in an abusive marriage thinking that god was going to turn things around for me. Guilt, guilt, guilt.....I was constantly guilty for my thoughts and actions. If I didn't read my bible everyday, I was guilty. If I thought a 'sinful' thought (gossip, anger, envy, sexual, etc..) I felt guilt.

 

It's nice to have a good conscience.... but when one lives in a constant state of guilt thinking that you could have done better, it's very hard on a persons brain...because it can keep you in a constant mindset of depression.

 

It's so good to be relieved of some of this today. I still can be very hard on myself but it's getting better everyday and the low lying depression I have felt my whole life is lifting. What a beautiful relief!!

 

Some mornings, I just have to get this stuff off my mind. Anybody else suffer from this terrible, toxic emotion of guilt?

 

*hugs* to you all today

I don't know the feelings of guilt many of you have and I don't understand it too well but I remember times, when I considered myself Christian, when I thought I was being "watched" by god. I became paranoid because I didn't like the thought of "Him" watching everything I did or didn't do and I felt like he could read my mind and know my thoughts. I was uncomfortable thinking about "bad" things and thought that he might hear them. It became a habit to feel incredibly nervous and vulnerable when I would think things god might have found "un" christian.  

 

Actually, I'm glad I got that off my chest now. Even though I normally hate sharing my troubles with others, I thought I'd give it a try here first.   I hope everyone is doing good!

[Margee]

 

I don't know the feelings of guilt many of you have and I don't understand it too well but I remember times, when I considered myself Christian, when I thought I was being "watched" by god. I became paranoid because I didn't like the thought of "Him" watching everything I did or didn't do and I felt like he could read my mind and know my thoughts. I was uncomfortable thinking about "bad" things and thought that he might hear them. It became a habit to feel incredibly nervous and vulnerable when I would think things god might have found "un" christian.  

 

Actually, I'm glad I got that off my chest now. Even though I normally hate sharing my troubles with others, I thought I'd give it a try here first.   I hope everyone is doing good!

 

 

I relate to everyone who has posted here. thank you for your responces.

 

EE, you said something here that made me laugh to myself although it is not really funny and that is the fact that 'god' can see absolutely EVERYTHING you are doing!!   Oh my gawd, how that one drove me up the wall. I mean ...he could see you using the bathroom, He knew your every thought and watched you making love with your partner and probably doing 'things' that the church preached against sexually......   I was always in trouble with The Lard. I was always begging his forgiveness that I promised never to do 'such and such' again.......  But I continued in 'my sin' therefore could never really, totally enjoy myself because you would suffer  such guilt afterwards.

 

I wish I had my effin' younger days back...I'd let soooo loose that I'd allow the devil to have hay-day with me!!!!!   Lol

[Voice]

Maybe our personalities make us more susceptible to guilt, or maybe it's just the fact that we're female, or we're empathetic. I don't know if we'll ever be totally care free, but I know we can make progress.

 

I would chalk it up to personalities, and up-bringing, but not so much gender.  Men and women suffer guilt equally.

 

This thread has helped me trace a primary source of guilt in my life, a trigger for depression which until now I didn't realize was this.  My mother.  Holy crap!  Maybe now that I can identify the source, maybe I can call it for what it is on the fly when it happens, and maybe I won't be affected by it so much.  Thank you all!

[Margee]

 

Maybe our personalities make us more susceptible to guilt, or maybe it's just the fact that we're female, or we're empathetic. I don't know if we'll ever be totally care free, but I know we can make progress.

 

I would chalk it up to personalities, and up-bringing, but not so much gender.  Men and women suffer guilt equally.

 

This thread has helped me trace a primary source of guilt in my life, a trigger for depression which until now I didn't realize was this.  My mother.  Holy crap!  Maybe now that I can identify the source, maybe I can call it for what it is on the fly when it happens, and maybe I won't be affected by it so much.  Thank you all!

 

 

 This has also been a great source of the depression I suffered over the years Voice!! Cheers to be finally free my friend!!   *hug*

[Voice]

 

 

Maybe our personalities make us more susceptible to guilt, or maybe it's just the fact that we're female, or we're empathetic. I don't know if we'll ever be totally care free, but I know we can make progress.

 

I would chalk it up to personalities, and up-bringing, but not so much gender.  Men and women suffer guilt equally.

 

This thread has helped me trace a primary source of guilt in my life, a trigger for depression which until now I didn't realize was this.  My mother.  Holy crap!  Maybe now that I can identify the source, maybe I can call it for what it is on the fly when it happens, and maybe I won't be affected by it so much.  Thank you all!

 

 

 This has also been a great source of the depression I suffered over the years Voice!! Cheers to be finally free my friend!!   *hug*

 

 

Thanks Margee.  It's yet to be proven though.  I must face her and the guilt head on.  Purification by fire.  We shall see.

[Pantophobia]

 I'm serious...I think I felt guilty for everything! Even when I did real good and was following the bible to the best of my ability....I still felt guilt. I always was down on myself constantly thinking I could have done better.

 

 

 

Oh, yes indeed. My earliest memories are insane levels of guilt and anxiety. At 3 and 4, I was already whipped up by whatever nature or nurture circumstances you want to pinpoint to have "bad girl! Guilty! Shame on you!" as my default setting. 

 

What I'm noticing in this thread is a one extreme or the other prompt that results in the same guilt. I didn't have Margee's experience of "arrogant Christianity" but rather, as I've said before, the "God, have mercy on me, a poor, miserable sinner" angle. Funny, how it all boils down to a kind of egocentrism, though. You, yes YOU, you singular individual, are SO BAD/IMPORTANT that THE WHOLE WORLD can be changed by how you act or react to something. For me, it was believing that if I wasn't reverent enough, God would crash this plane/give this relative cancer/kill this person I loved. When something bad happened in my family, it must have been something I did wrong, right?

 

I still feel guilt about some things, mostly parent/family related, but have gotten much better. Shame, though? Fuck that. 

[Lucynia]

 

 I thought I had to be nice to absolutely anybody in my path because god was going to use me to change them. What a joke. I even stayed in an abusive marriage thinking that god was going to turn things around for me. Guilt, guilt, guilt.....I was constantly guilty for my thoughts and actions. If I didn't read my bible everyday, I was guilty. If I thought a 'sinful' thought (gossip, anger, envy, sexual, etc..) I felt guilt.

 

 

Thank you for sharing this with us.  It's such a heavy burden to place on a person, to expect them to be perfect in every interaction because another's faith and salvation are on the line.  I couldn't handle it as a child.  Once I bribed a friend with candy to pray the salvation prayer!  

 

In my early 20's, my fiancee's father became seriously ill and passed away soon after.  I had never witnessed to him, and for years after I was tormented by dreams of him being in hell because I never shared my faith directly.  

 

It's a long process to de program, and I thank you for sharing this very painful and personal post.  It helps me a lot to read similar stories, and to have my 'demons' challenged from the outside.  Thank you for shining light into dark corners I'm still finding.

 

*hugs*

[Thought2Much]

Letting go of the guilt has been so incredibly freeing.

 

When I was a Christian, I felt guilty all the time. I felt guilty because I wasn't sharing the gospel enough. I felt guilty because I wasn't happy paying the tithe. I felt guilty for not wanting to see the Rapture. I felt guilty because I almost had sex with an ex-girlfriend of mine while I was in college. I felt guilty for having a few drinks. I felt guilty because I didn't love reading the Bible and I didn't love spending every bit of free time in prayer. I felt guilty because I wasn't interested in End Times theology or how the Tabernacle was put together. I felt guilty for thinking lustful thoughts about women, however fleeting and nearly involuntary those thoughts were. I felt guilty for not giving money to homeless people who may have been angels in disguise. I felt guilty because as bad as hell sounded, I didn't like the idea of heaven (endlessly kissing God's ass and nothing else) a whole lot better.

 

Guilt, guilt, guilt, guilt, guilt.

 

And now it's gone, and what a difference that has made for me, not having all of those thoughts about guilt banging around in my head.

 

Hugs to you, Margee.

[Margee]

Man, I tell you...when you guys post..it brings tears to my eyes. I love you guys so much. Don't give up...EVER!!!! Please!!!

[TheRedneckProfessor]

We're all just human.  We all make mistakes.  Some of us are good at some things; some are good at other things.  Sometimes our choices are good and we feel good about them.  Other times, the right choice isn't so easy to see and we get confused.  Then there are times when we make the wrong choice.  We make mistakes.  But that's all they are and everybody makes them.  There's nothing sinful, or shameful, about mistakes.

 

Forgive yourselves and others; that is the path to freedom.

[Vigile]

Marlee, I really like the way you write. I eagerly consume the words you give.

 

What age bracket were you in when you acknowledged you were non religious? I am looking to get a conversation going among the 50 and older crowd. I see a lot of young people on this site, I sure wish I had the exposure and guts they had. Enough said I spent my life entrenched in religion. As you mention, failure, guilt, missing gods will; these are the major control tools used on us. If only we had listened better to gods will, if we had prayed harder, if we had the faith, etc, etc......

 

Thank you for your hug, take one from me. I know in your head there is no guilt and no sin and no missing the mark, or high calling of god. I am 66 years old. I have been out of the closet maybe eighty percent for five months. Learning to reprogram my brain is not easy. But, it is natural. I am at a place where I know I have no sin and no hell. And of coarse no heaven. But, for fun, no guilt!!

 

You're a bit younger than my parents and I can't imagine them ever thinking or questioning deeply enough to deconvert.  You have nothing to feel ashamed about.  Whatever it is that sets those of us a part who are able to question deeply-held values is as much part of you as those of us who deconverted earlier in life.  Perhaps the only thing that separates us is mere circumstances in life that act as triggers. 

 

[RipVanWinkle]

I have always had a problem with guilt, too. There is a distinction between guilt about sins which

violate gawd's laws from guilt from having done something that hurt somebody. The former are supposed

prohibitions from a mythical gawd. Many of them are not harmful in themselves, i.e. make no graven

images.

 

The latter are different, particularly so when it can no longer be undone. Both of my parents are dead.

There is nothing I can do to undo some things I did or didn't do to or for them. And guilt about these

things, it seems to me, can't be dropped by the exercise of so called free will. The serenity prayer is

the only thing that I know of that addresses this problem directly. It's a prayer to a mythological

being, but if you leave the request for god to be involved, it's good advice. If you can do it. bill

[ApostateAwoken]

I've been there, Margee!

 

I grew up internalizing stuff and blaming myself, so I'm certainly familiar with overwhelming guilt even if it's on things you shouldn't be guilty for! 

I'm so glad to hear you're getting over it, though; it's not healthy. But you already know that. 

 

Hugs!!  

[NeverAgainV]

...I wish I had my effin' younger days back...I'd let soooo loose that I'd allow the devil to have hay-day with me!!!!!   Lol

 

You and me too!! Hell yeah!!!

 

Being raised Catholic the guilt & shame were ever present. I really tried to live it. Through high school all my friends were having sex I was still the virgin trying my upmost to be the good Catholic girl, but funny all of my Catholic friends could have cared less. They were doing whatever the hell they wanted to.  When I finally gave in to sex, drunk as a skunk- as i had to anesthetize myself in order to feel HUMAN...I was wracked w/ guilt & shame. I passed up some great opportunities because of the "religion".

 

I see it all started when I was a child. There was always someone across the globe who had it worse than me, so how DARE I want that Chrissy Doll?! To this day I still relive all the stupid mistakes I made!! All of the people I hurt using bible verses, though I believed I was helping them, you know- rebuking them so they would repent. UGH.  

 

While in the cult I couldn't enjoy much- as everything that wasn't "church" was "of the world" and of course we weren't supposed to love the world...

Those were depressing times...

 

Hey, at least we've come out on the other side. But I must say I still wrestle with Guilt and Shame to this very day.

You aint alone honey!!

HUGZ to you Margee!

[Margee]

 

...I wish I had my effin' younger days back...I'd let soooo loose that I'd allow the devil to have hay-day with me!!!!!   Lol

 

You and me too!! Hell yeah!!!

 

Being raised Catholic the guilt & shame were ever present. I really tried to live it. Through high school all my friends were having sex I was still the virgin trying my upmost to be the good Catholic girl, but funny all of my Catholic friends could have cared less. They were doing whatever the hell they wanted to.  When I finally gave in to sex, drunk as a skunk- as i had to anesthetize myself in order to feel HUMAN...I was wracked w/ guilt & shame. I passed up some great opportunities because of the "religion".

 

I see it all started when I was a child. There was always someone across the globe who had it worse than me, so how DARE I want that Chrissy Doll?! To this day I still relive all the stupid mistakes I made!! All of the people I hurt using bible verses, though I believed I was helping them, you know- rebuking them so they would repent. UGH.

 

While in the cult I couldn't enjoy much- as everything that wasn't "church" was "of the world" and of course we weren't supposed to love the world...

Those were depressing times...

 

Hey, at least we've come out on the other side. But I must say I still wrestle with Guilt and Shame to this very day.

You aint alone honey!!

HUGZ to you Margee!

 

 

 

Oh gawd girlfriend I know just what you mean!!! When all my friends were out there drinking and carousing, I played the good girl and studied my effin' bible. I made a vow that I was never going to be a drunk or party like the rest of my family. They used to tease me and call me 'Miss Goody Two Shoes'. Well I had to be...someone had to save the family!!!  I was going to save them from all the dysfunction....Ha! I joined the church...and 9 years later felt sooooooooooooo 'not enough' that I finally joined them and stayed drunk on and off for 8 years. Believe it or not, I still went to church and sat  at the back and still tried to study my bible. And I might add that I continually asked for god's fucking help in all my confusion in which I never heard from 'him' until I decided to take control of my life. The church didn't do it for me.....I did it!!

 

The guilt is a heavy burden to carry around ones' whole life. Horrible. Terrible.

 

Ex-c has delivered me!!!!!!!!  

[NeverAgainV]

 

 

...I wish I had my effin' younger days back...I'd let soooo loose that I'd allow the devil to have hay-day with me!!!!!   Lol

 

You and me too!! Hell yeah!!!

 

Being raised Catholic the guilt & shame were ever present. I really tried to live it. Through high school all my friends were having sex I was still the virgin trying my upmost to be the good Catholic girl, but funny all of my Catholic friends could have cared less. They were doing whatever the hell they wanted to.  When I finally gave in to sex, drunk as a skunk- as i had to anesthetize myself in order to feel HUMAN...I was wracked w/ guilt & shame. I passed up some great opportunities because of the "religion".

 

I see it all started when I was a child. There was always someone across the globe who had it worse than me, so how DARE I want that Chrissy Doll?! To this day I still relive all the stupid mistakes I made!! All of the people I hurt using bible verses, though I believed I was helping them, you know- rebuking them so they would repent. UGH.

 

While in the cult I couldn't enjoy much- as everything that wasn't "church" was "of the world" and of course we weren't supposed to love the world...

Those were depressing times...

 

Hey, at least we've come out on the other side. But I must say I still wrestle with Guilt and Shame to this very day.

You aint alone honey!!

HUGZ to you Margee!

 

 

 

Oh gawd girlfriend I know just what you mean!!! When all my friends were out there drinking and carousing, I played the good girl and studied my effin' bible. I made a vow that I was never going to be a drunk or party like the rest of my family. They used to tease me and call me 'Miss Goody Two Shoes'. Well I had to be...someone had to save the family!!!  I was going to save them from all the dysfunction....Ha! I joined the church...and 9 years later felt sooooooooooooo 'not enough' that I finally joined them and stayed drunk on and off for 8 years. Believe it or not, I still went to church and sat  at the back and still tried to study my bible. And I might add that I continually asked for god's fucking help in all my confusion in which I never heard from 'him' until I decided to take control of my life. The church didn't do it for me.....I did it!!

 

The guilt is a heavy burden to carry around ones' whole life. Horrible. Terrible.

 

Ex-c has delivered me!!!!!!!!  

 

I hear you Margee. You delivered yourself w/ the help of Ex-C!!

I do think it's very hard to shake off the guilt and shame. Also, if you are more sensitive I think it's just that much harder to do.

It's just great to be out of that nonsense!