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End Times Bullshit


nick5
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So, I was reading a christian board just now and they were talking about the end times. It's really sad that people choose to live in fear of the end times and see every single thing that happens in the world as a part of a BS prophecy... of course, knowing how christianity was created, it's absolutely impossible to think that it is true, but we all know how much christians love their 1700-years-old lie.

I'm curious, what would you guys reply to such people? Here's a post from their board:

 

t Days

 

Definition: The Bible uses the expression “last days” to refer to the concluding time period leading up to a divinely appointed execution that marks the end of a system of things. The Jewish system with its worship built around the temple in Jerusalem experienced its last days from 33 to 70 C.E. What occurred then was pictorial of what would be experienced in a greatly intensified way and on a global scale at a time when all nations would be facing the execution of judgment decreed by God. The present wicked system of things, which extends worldwide, entered its last days in 1914, and some of the generation alive then will also be on hand to witness its complete end in the “great tribulation.”

 

What indicates that we today are living in “the last days”?

 

The Bible describes events and conditions that mark this significant time period. “The sign” is a composite one made up of many evidences; thus its fulfillment requires that all aspects of the sign be clearly in evidence during one generation. The various aspects of the sign are recorded at Matthew chapters 24, 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21; there are further details at 2 Timothy 3:1-5, 2 Peter 3:3, 4, and Revelation 6:1-8. By way of illustration, lets consider a few outstanding portions of the sign.

 

“Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom” (Matt. 24:7)

 

War has marred life on the earth for thousands of years. International wars and wars within nations have been fought. But beginning in 1914 the first world war was fought. This was not merely a conflict between two armies on the battlefield. For the first time, all the major powers were at war. Entire nations—including civilian populations—were mobilized to support the war effort. It is estimated that by the end of the war 93 percent of the population of the world was involved. As foretold at Revelation 6:4, ‘peace was taken away from the earth.’ Thus the world has continued to be in a state of upheaval ever since 1914. World War II was fought from 1939 to 1945. According to retired Admiral Gene La Rocque, as of 1982 there had been another 270 wars since 1945. Upwards of 100 million persons have been slaughtered in warfare during this century. Also, according to the 1982 edition of World Military and Social Expenditures, there were in that year 100 million people engaged directly or indirectly in military activities.

 

Is more required in order to fulfill this aspect of the prophecy? There are tens of thousands of nuclear weapons deployed for immediate use. Leading scientists have said that if the nations were to use even a fraction of their nuclear arsenals, civilization and possibly the entire human species would be destroyed. But that is not the outcome to which Bible prophecy points.

 

“There will be food shortages . . . in one place after another” (Matt. 24:7)

 

There have been many famines in human history. To what extent has the 20th century been afflicted by them? World war led to widespread starvation in Europe and Asia. Africa has been stricken by drought, resulting in extensive food shortages. Late in 1980 the Food and Agriculture Organization estimated that 450 million people were hungry to the point of starvation, and up to a billion did not have enough to eat. Of these, some 40 million a year actually die—in some years as many as 50 million—because of the shortage of food.

 

Is anything different about these food shortages? Revelation 6:6 indicated that a small quantity of such staples as wheat or barley would be selling for a day’s wage (a denarius; see Matthew 20:2) but that supplies of such items as olive oil and wine used by people who are well-to-do would not be harmed. So apparently many would suffer shortage while others could still get what they wanted. This situation is no longer local, but global. In 1981 The New York Times reported: “The improvement in living standards and the growing demand for food around the world have put pressure on food prices, making it harder for the poorest countries to import their food needs.” In many lands the production of food, even with the aid of modern science, has not been able to keep pace with the increase in total population. Modern food experts see no real solution to the problem.

 

“There will be great earthquakes” (Luke 21:11)

 

It is true that there were major quakes in centuries past; furthermore, with their sensitive equipment scientists now detect more than a million quakes a year. But no special instruments are needed for people to know when there is a great earthquake.

 

Has there actually been a significant number of major earthquakes since 1914? With data obtained from the National Geophysical Data Center in Boulder, Colorado, supplemented by a number of standard reference works, a tabulation was made in 1984 that included only earthquakes that measured 7.5 or more on the Richter scale, or that resulted in destruction of five million dollars (U.S.) or more in property, or that caused 100 or more deaths. It was calculated that there had been 856 of such earthquakes during the 2,000 years before 1914. The same tabulation showed that in just 69 years following 1914 there were 605 of such quakes. That means that, in comparison with the previous 2,000 years, the average per year has been 20 times as great since 1914.

 

“In one place after another pestilences” (Luke 21:11)

 

At the close of the first world war the Spanish flu swept around the globe, claiming upwards of 20 million lives and at a rate unparalleled in the history of disease. Despite advances in medical science, a heavy toll is exacted every year by cancer, heart disease, numerous sexually transmitted diseases, multiple sclerosis, malaria, river blindness, and Chagas’ disease.

 

‘Increased lawlessness accompanied by a cooling off of love on the part of the greater number’ (Matt. 24:11, 12)

 

A leading criminologist says: “The one thing that hits you in the eye when you look at crime on the world scale is a pervasive and persistent increase everywhere. Such exceptions as there are stand out in splendid isolation, and may soon be swamped in the rising tide.” (The Growth of Crime, New York, 1977, Sir Leon Radzinowicz and Joan King, pp. 4, 5) The increase is real; it is not merely a matter of better reporting. It is true, past generations had criminals too, but never before has crime been as pervasive as it is now. Persons who are up in years know that from personal experience.

 

The lawlessness referred to in the prophecy includes contempt for the known laws of God, a placing of self instead of God at the center of one’s life. As a result of this attitude, divorce rates are skyrocketing, sex outside of marriage and homosexuality are widely accepted, and tens of millions of abortions are performed every year. Such lawlessness is associated (in Matthew 24:11, 12) with the influence of false prophets, those who set aside God’s Word in favor of their own teachings. Heeding their philosophies instead of holding to the Bible contributes toward a loveless world. (1 John 4:8) Read the description of it at 2 Timothy 3:1-5.

 

“Men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth” (Luke 21:25, 26)

 

“The fact is that today the biggest single emotion which dominates our lives is fear,” said U.S. News & World Report. (October 11, 1965, p. 144) “Never before has mankind been as fearful as at present,” reported the German magazine Hörzu.—No. 25, June 20, 1980, p. 22.

 

Many factors contribute to this global atmosphere of fear: violent crime, unemployment, economic instability because so many nations are hopelessly in debt, worldwide pollution of the environment, lack of strong and loving family ties, and the overwhelming feeling that mankind is in imminent danger of nuclear annihilation. Luke 21:25 mentions ‘signs in sun, moon, and stars, and roaring of the seas’ in connection with the anguish felt by the nations. The rising of the sun often causes, not happy anticipation, but fear of what the day may bring; when the moon and stars shine, fear of crime makes people stay behind locked doors. In the 20th century, but not before, planes and missiles have been used to send destruction streaking down from the heavens. Submarines carrying deadly loads of missiles prowl the seas, just one such submarine being equipped to annihilate 160 cities. No wonder the nations are in anguish!

 

‘Christ’s true followers to be objects of hatred by all nations on account of his name’ (Matt. 24:9)

 

This persecution is not because of political meddling but ‘on account of the name of Jesus Christ,’ because his followers adhere to him as God's Messianic King, because of their obeying Christ ahead of any earthly ruler, because of their loyally adhering to his Kingdom and not becoming involved in the affairs of human governments.

 

‘This good news of the kingdom preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness’ (Matt. 24:14)

 

The message that would be preached is that God’s Kingdom in the hands of Jesus Christ has begun to rule in the heavens, that soon it will put an end to the entire wicked system of things, that under its rule mankind will be brought to perfection and earth will become a paradise. That good news is being preached today in over 200 lands and island groups, to the most distant parts of the earth.

To what do all these events of “the last days” point?

 

Luke 21:31, 32: “When you see these things occurring, know that the kingdom of God is near [that is, the time when it will destroy the present wicked world and itself take full charge of earth’s affairs]. Truly I say to you, This generation will by no means pass away until all things occur.” (The “generation” that was alive at the beginning of fulfillment of the sign in 1914 is now well along in years. The time remaining must be very short. World conditions give every indication that this is the case.)

 

 

Will anyone at all be alive on earth after the end of the present world system?

 

Definitely yes. The end of the present global system will come, not as a result of indiscriminate slaughter in nuclear war, but in a great tribulation that includes “the war of the great day of God the Almighty.” (Rev. 16:14, 16) That war will not destroy the earth, nor will it bring all mankind to ruin.

 

Matt. 24:21, 22: “Then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.” (So some “flesh,” some of humankind, will survive.)

 

Prov. 2:21, 22: “The upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.”

 

Ps. 37:29, 34: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it. Hope in Jehovah and keep his way, and he will exalt you to take possession of the earth. When the wicked ones are cut off, you will see it.”

 

Why does God allow so much time to pass before destroying the wicked?

 

2 Pet. 3:9: “God is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.”

 

Mark 13:10: “In all the nations the good news has to be preached first.”

 

Matt. 25:31, 32, 46: “When the Son of man [Jesus Christ] arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And these [who fail to recognize Christ’s spiritual brothers as representatives of the King himself] will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

 

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Since these words were written down, has there ever been a time when they weren't true?

 

Now, if it said that Jesus was coming back during a time when there was total peace on the earth, and nobody was killing anyone else - and that time arrived, I'd be worried.

 

 

Watch the clouds, christians. Watch the clouds.

 

 

Tomorrow could be the day.

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Ironically the Jewish Messiah is the Christian Anti Christ. :HaHa: How convinient?
As you come to understand the real methodologies of each, it becomes apparent that this is an inescapable situation.
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I'm curious, what would you guys reply to such people?
I would reply to them, "Well, I think that you totally misunderstand what is being said, but with the proper understanding of the words then, yes, that is pretty accurate."
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LOL...true, true! On another note, many in the Messianic Jewish community believe that Paul is the anti-christ. :lmao:

 

:lmao::lmao: Just like the way some protestant say that the pope is the anti christ.

 

what a bunch of morons? don't they read their own bible.?

 

the first thing that anti christ would do is deny christ. Paul and the pope never did/do that

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the first thing that anti christ would do is deny christ. Paul and the pope never did/do that
The first thing that he would do is to cause confusion on the issue of Christianity such that people would be very willing to turn away and accept the alternative.
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Many Chrsitains look forward to the end times.
Yes and this has annoyed me in the past. By them looking forward to it, they actually have the effect of delaying it and stretching it out.

 

If they would seriously attempt to prevent it, then it would come quickly, get over with, and things could move on.

 

The prediction of those "last days" is actually more logically sound than would be apparent.

 

What they recognized very long ago is that Man moves through a pattern of development. Each stage of development is another "day" of enlightenment. Each fall from what was thought to be as good as it can get becomes a time of confusion and "darkness".

 

The problem is that the Jesus methodology is more sophisticated in the way that it actually works. This means that early more immediately apparent thoughts will reign first. This is similar to predicting what a child will conclude as the child grows. The more mature thoughts will not come until the child has experienced what doesn't really work despite his earlier thoughts.

 

The theory is that the Jesus method is the highest and most all encompassing method to be finally realized by all of Mankind. But before this happens, a Satan type character must come up with the brilliant idea of how to do things.

 

The proposed new way of doing things must be given time to show that it doesn't really work as well as advertised. In the confusion (the clouds) that result from trying to make things work in the Satanic manner, many people will realize that they have seen this story before and will see that the Jesus method was far more effective.

 

At this time, as the theory goes, the entire world will finally realize that what was proposed 2000 years ago actually is the best method.

 

Because that method involves all people trying to enjoy life and not fighting all of the time, the final revelation yields a type of peace that will be confirmed and will last forever.

 

I could personally add to this theory, but that's another story.

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Many Chrsitains look forward to the end times.

 

Wonder how many will watch their child get their head cut-off so as not to deny Jesus. That used to HORRIFY me as a Christian. I thought if god was going to test me, it would be with my children; like watching my daughter and/or son get raped unless I denied god, or their fingers cut off, anything that a sick bastard could do to a child...that would torture a mother more than anything they could ever do to me in order to get me to deny jesus. And IF by some strange chance, I was asked to deny Jesus in order to spare my children, I already knew the answer...F*CK jesus!

 

Tell me about it. It always made me sick how I was supposed to turn my back on all the real people who were there for me in my life for the sake of a false god who never once showed himself. I've been there and did that with the end-time crowd already; it's one of the biggest proofs of how Xianity is truly anti-life, how it obsesses with the end of the world and living your life like the end is right around the corner. And with the parable of the thief in the night and the basic good message of preparedness it makes, it is hard to argue logic with fundies; they just cite that and turn up their snotty little noses. Even though not one single "prophecy" of the Bible has ever come true, and that there have been other doomsday cults before and after Xianity that have also failed, it's still impossible to talk to these people.

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Wonder how many will watch their child get their head cut-off so as not to deny Jesus. That used to HORRIFY me as a Christian. I thought if god was going to test me, it would be with my children; like watching my daughter and/or son get raped unless I denied god, or their fingers cut off, anything that a sick bastard could do to a child...that would torture a mother more than anything they could ever do to me in order to get me to deny jesus. And IF by some strange chance, I was asked to deny Jesus in order to spare my children, I already knew the answer...F*CK jesus!

 

Is that part of the end time prophecies?

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Is that part of the end time prophecies?
These sacrificing things are all from speculations as to what the "proper" way to behave would be. They are not a part of the prophecies.

 

Christianity is about self-sacrifice, not the sacrifice of others. The Jewish faith is more in line with "kill thy child for the Lord"

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But it a Christian denied christ in order to save their child...they would really have made the ultimate self-sacrifice then, right? After all, you've given up eternity with god and have choosen the devil.
Not exactly.

 

What it all boils down to is that there are only 2 fundamental philosophies to all human behavior.

 

1) Do what you want despite your needs. This is much as the young child.

 

2) Adjust what it is that you want to fit with your needs. This is the very definition of maturity.

 

The problem is that knowing what your real needs are is an extremely complex task. No one person can evaluate all things such as to truly know the entire balance so that they can evaluate what path might lead to a better future for themselves or anyone else.

 

This is where faith comes into the game. Because you can only assess some of what you must deal with in life, other things must either be left out of your plans all together or left up to someone else to advise you on.

 

But of course, the problem is, who would you trust to advise you on things that you don't have the time or ability to assess yourself?

 

Christianity asserts many things, but one of them is that if you're going to have to trust someone, then trust the one who is least likely to be selfish.

 

The concept of Jesus is one that represents total selflessness. This would represent the most trustable king to have to bow to when you have to bow. It wouldn't be an issue except that in the long run, you are going to bow to something or someone.

 

The alternative is to bow to someone who is obviously selfish who will then merely use your confusion against you so that you become a good work horse for him.

 

Soooo...

 

1) Find out what your REAL needs are

 

2) Learn how to adjust your wants to match your needs

 

3) Out of all of your needs, decide which that you can handle on yourown

 

4) Find the most trustable advisor for the things which you can not handle on your own

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Is that part of the end time prophecies?

 

It probably depends on the branch of the cult. I remember being a child and being forced to watch some fked up movie in church about people who refused to get the number got their heads cut off willingly. I knew as a child there was no way I'd get my head cut off, I'd get the number and try to save my family members.

 

Some of these cults literally terrorize it's members as to how non-believers will put you thru unimaginable pain and turmoil if you don't deny god/Christ. Fear is the number one tool for control, and they use it masterfully.

 

Is that part of the end time prophecies?
These sacrificing things are all from speculations as to what the "proper" way to behave would be. They are not a part of the prophecies.

 

Christianity is about self-sacrifice, not the sacrifice of others. The Jewish faith is more in line with "kill thy child for the Lord"

 

Hmm, that's odd, most people that kill their kids in a gods name do so because they are devout Christians and think their kid was possessed by Satan, or want to save them from Satan. The only thing Christians 'sacrifice' is sanity, outside of that they are the most self-absorbed narrow minded assholes to exist. Most wouldn't lift a finger to help someone not of their cult and would tell the sufferer that it's because of their lack of faith they are going thru what they are going thru. :Wendywhatever:

 

 

 

1) Find out what your REAL needs are

 

2) Learn how to adjust your wants to match your needs

 

3) Out of all of your needs, decide which that you can handle on yourown

 

4) Find the most trustable advisor for the things which you can not handle on your own

 

I'm sorry, Just what the fuck is that all suppose to mean? :twitch: The question posed to you was if the Mother sacrificed her eternal soul for the child to live longer on this earth, isn't that the ultimate sacrifice, you spew out some bullshit that might make you feel smart, but you come across as a complete incoherent Christian Idiot

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I used to always reply with the rest of Matthew 24.

 

Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

 

It's a waste of time to preach the end of the world, and only reaches people through fear, when love was really Christ's mission.

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I used to always reply with the rest of Matthew 24.

 

Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

 

It's a waste of time to preach the end of the world, and only reaches people through fear, when love was really Christ's mission.

 

But, he came to cause division, to bring a sword, not peace...

 

If you deny Christ, he will deny you.

What a loving and forgiving god...

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It's a waste of time to preach the end of the world, and only reaches people through fear, when love was really Christ's mission.

 

 

Husbands that abuse their wives claim they love them, Parents that abuse their kids claim love as well, Christ holding a gun to peoples heads they love him or else face death is abusive and not at all about love, and that is the message Christ brings. You can't love him unless you hate everyone else et al (Luke 14). I wont even go into the supposed love of the father god for his son or the creation. Seems to me Christ could have used some therapy.

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You can't say anything to fools like end-times cheerleaders. They are misanthropic cowards who eagerly await the day that all the sinners get what's coming to them. Most of them would be happy to do it themselves except they don't want to go to prison.

 

It's not about faith, justice, or christ's 'love' for these people - it's all about payback. They can't wait for the blood to run bridle-high.

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You guys are right of course, about the love being a twisted love. But I was just speaking from my past perspective as a christian. I would have never admitted the truth then, I would have given the answer in my post. When I read this topic I slipped into a mode where I wanted to point out that even as a christian I rejected and abhorred end times freaks. I just forgot to say it clearly.

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Whenever I think of end-times fanatics, I remember this guy from when I worked at Kinko's, years ago. He used to come in with these pathetically meticulous flow-charts of biblical prophecies and their 'real world' corollaries. It was obvious from the charts the vast amount of time he devoted to them, so we concluded he was unemployed and lived with his parents. :loser:

 

Anyway, he was the most irritating type of prissy, anal-retentive misanthrope with barely-contained resentment seething from his every word and mannerism. Eventually, we got permission from management to blow him off, because he would make us copy and re-copy everything a dozen times before he'd pay a cent, and we were spending hours working on his stupid charts and making maybe $15 off the little cheapskate. I still remember the day I told him we couldn't spend all this extra time without charging him big bucks. He practically hissed at me and scuttled out clutching his precious charts to his bosom, never to return.

 

No doubt he went home and prayed extra-hard for the Rapture, and for god to come down especially hard on Kinko's. :jerkoff:

 

At the same time, an adult film star named Busty Brittany used to come in and have us do a lot of color copies of her adventures in the skin film world. She was one of the greatest customers - sweet, accommodating, happy, and definitely not a cheapskate. And she was very busty... :wub:

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I'm curious, what would you guys reply to such people?

 

Nothing. Such balogne is not worth responding to.

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I noticed when I read through the quote posted at the beginning of this thread, that there was a lot missing. And also, there were some statements that were trademarks of prophetic viewpoints that I do not agree with at all. This is Jehovah’s Witnesses’ material.

 

The centerpiece of end-time drama is Israel, the people and the land. The JH piece made no significant mention of this except to point out that the last days for the chosen people supposedly ended with the destruction of the Temple. Eschatological points of view that are dismissive of Israel are most unfortunate because the most glaring and specific revelations concerning end-time stuff has to do with the Jews. While gentile nations are major players, the focal point is Israel.

 

1914 has no significance that I am aware of. 1948 and 1967 are important. The reformation of national Israel is a very old prophecy.

 

There is no reasonable accounting for this from a historical perspective. The phenomena of a ancient people and their attachment to a tiny piece of real estate on the Mediterranean is not a rational thing to contemplate. Nor is the unreasonable attention paid by the rest of the world towards Israel. There are quite a few cities in the world with populations larger than the total number of Jews in this little nation. They have no oil or other abundant natural resources. Israel should be, by any reasonable standard, insignificant.

 

But it is undeniably not, and there is an ancient reason for this:

 

“…who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me”

 

As noted elsewhere, it takes no less than God to guide history into circumstances that were announced hundreds of years ago. There is no place to hide from this.

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I remember dealing with that prophecy before, and when I pointed out that the prophecy stated, in no uncertain terms, that Israel would be reformed out of the broken parts of it that existed at the time, and was thus fulfilled millenia ago, (before that prophecy was even written down) the person I was talking to disappeared very quickly...

 

Anyway, about this...

The reformation of national Israel is a very old prophecy.

 

There is no reasonable accounting for this from a historical perspective. The phenomena of a ancient people and their attachment to a tiny piece of real estate on the Mediterranean is not a rational thing to contemplate. Nor is the unreasonable attention paid by the rest of the world towards Israel. There are quite a few cities in the world with populations larger than the total number of Jews in this little nation. They have no oil or other abundant natural resources. Israel should be, by any reasonable standard, insignificant.

 

But it is undeniably not, and there is an ancient reason for this:

 

“…who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me”

 

As noted elsewhere, it takes no less than God to guide history into circumstances that were announced hundreds of years ago. There is no place to hide from this.

There is a very modern reason for it as well... Thanks to the Jewish people being "homeless" for goodness knows how long, and thanks to the horrific suffering they suffered at the hands of the Nazis, in the period 1945-70, most of the western world felt guilt for not doing more to protect and help them so they created a nation for them to live in. Since then, it's been a focal point for religious and cultural clashes and is consistantly front page news.

 

As for the question of God guiding this... well, just remember that God must have guided the Nazis into commiting genocide against the Jews. :ugh:

Also remember that the same God that did that, is also burning every single one of them in hell for eternity.

 

So... your God is responsible for the Holocaust, your God is burning the victims for eternity, and all to fulfill a prophecy that had already been fulfilled...

 

 

 

A Just God? Nope... more like a sodding Pyschotic God. :twitch:

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There is a very modern reason for it as well... Thanks to the Jewish people being "homeless" for goodness knows how long, and thanks to the horrific suffering they suffered at the hands of the Nazis, in the period 1945-70, most of the western world felt guilt for not doing more to protect and help them so they created a nation for them to live in. Since then, it's been a focal point for religious and cultural clashes and is consistantly front page news.

 

Basically, if it weren't for Jewish persecution during WWII, we wouldn't have Israel today, and all the strife in the Middle East simply would not be. Thanks a lot, Uncle Adolf :angry:

 

This is what happens when we let guilt guide us and kowtow to one group at the expense of others. WWII lasted for five years; this bullshit in the Middle East has been going on for 58 years, shows no real signs of slowing down, and is spilling over to most of the world. All of the Yahweh cultists should've been left to fend for themselves after 1945, especially if they believed their imaginary friend would help them. We have no business in their affairs.

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