Interesting Look At The Minds Of The Religious

[Asimov]

Well, I'm readin the news, and I see that the 12 miners trapped were freed!

 

Yay! It's a miracle...thank God they were found!! Only through God's good graces were they discovered alive!!

 

Oh wait....let's look at some more news...a Java village is buried in a landslide and 200 people are feared dead with 100 homes destroyed....oh....

 

So....no miracle for them? Too busy helping those 12 people that you can't help an ENTIRE VILLAGE?

 

Interesting, to say the least.

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

Well, clearly gawd was so busy saving those miners that he didn't

have time to put out those fires in Texas and Oklahoma, or stop

all those floods out here in California. Maybe US taxpayers should

send those miners a bill, for keeping gawd from doing other

important things.

 

[Fweethawt]

Symbolically speaking, the explosion was God's call to the miners to repent of their sin. The Earth that caved in around them was God's judgement showing them the error of their sinful ways. While the miners were trapped by deep, dark and dirty sin, they repented by crying out to God for help and the rescue crew is Jesus Christ who reached down into the Earth and saved them from their sin.

 

 

So yeah, God had much to do with their rescue.

 

How can you not see this?

 

 

 

<<<let the beatings commence>>>

[Casey]

Symbolically speaking, the explosion was God's call to the miners to repent of their sin. The Earth that caved in around them was God's judgement showing them the error of their sinful ways. While the miners were trapped by deep, dark and dirty sin, they repented by crying out to God for help and the rescue crew is Jesus Christ who reached down into the Earth and saved them from their sin.

 

 

So yeah, God had much to do with their rescue.

 

How can you not see this?

 

 

 

<<<let the beatings commence>>>

 

What's Jebus got to do with it? I thought Saint Barbara was the patron saint of gunners and miners. Where was she?

Casey

[narcissist]

C'mon you guys, you ought to know by now...

 

America is a Christian country, Indonesia is not.

[Fweethawt]

I'm getting some really mixed vibes here...

 

I just overheard a couple of people in the other room talking about there being 12 dead miners and 1 alive. I asked if they were sure that it wasn't the other way around. They said no, and that twelve had died.

 

What's going on here?

 

What's Jebus got to do with it? I thought Saint Barbara was the patron saint of gunners and miners. Where was she?

Casey

 

If what I just heard is true (see comment above), she was probably helping gunners somewhere.

[Gnosis of Disbelief]

Looks like a "miscommunication...." Apparently, gawd

actually fumbled, and got 12 of the 13 miners killed.

Now watch the fundies take all their claims of divine

intervention and promptly flush them down the memory

hole....

[Vigile]

If god is so smart, why did he let the miners get trapped in the first place? How does the saying go? "An ounce of prevention..."

[BuddhistCommunist]

Yeah I just heard the miners were dead. Apparently only 1 repented, the rest were killed by gods holy earth crushing powers and sent to hell. I suppose we better repent as well or gawd will crush us in the ground, or throw us in a wildfire, or trap us in a landslide or whatever else the christians are saying gawd is doing these days.

[pandora]

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp...news_0106miners

 

Yep. They juumped the gun in the reporting. Whoops!

 

I feel awful for the families... that must have been shocking.

[white_raven23]

*sigh*

 

I tend to watch the headline news every morning.....what a tragedy.

 

Still.....much to learn about people at the same time........

 

Some family members seemed to be trying to blame the rescuers for the miscommunication..... a little trick learned from the New Orleans hurricane disaster a few months ago.....screw the lack or pre-hurricane preparation (money that was supposed to go into the levies over the years getting shunted to other projects), let's point the fingers at the people who are here to help! Nevermind all the violations slapped all over this mine before those poor guys went down there!

 

Another lady they kept putting on the screen kept whining "Isn't this supposed to be a free country?" As to what THAT had to do with the loss of twelve men in a mining disaster....... . I didn't know "free country" meant "free of tragedy" or "pain free existence". Learn something new I guess.

 

Another guy actually gave some good information.....if you listened right. Unfortunately I missed the guy's name, so if someone else caught it (they will repeat this stuff all day likely), try to post the info....but I will paraphrase for now.

 

This guy was in the church. He heard the news and was present for the three hours of celebration. Apparantly what he heard was that the twelve miners had survived and were going to walk right in the doors of this church.

 

Okay. Wait right there. And yes, I know this is what the families wanted desperately to hear, so one cannot blame them for not taking this report with a grain of salt, but still. These people had to be getting the info on the air quality reports.....was it realistic to think these guys were going to walk right out of the mine and head for the church? No medical care needed? Very unlikely.

 

The part I found considerable interest in....this same guy after learning the truth that only one guy survived, when the minister asked everyone to pray.....this guy was like.... what for? What did god do?

 

Interesting. Very interesting. Yes. It's easy to believe in a fuzzy soft caring god when everything in life is going RIGHT and as YOU think it should go. Granted, I'm sure the cognitive dissonace will settle back in.....but even the most "righteous" fundie has that flash of clarity after serious trauma (at least until they convince themselves otherwise).

 

 

What I find truly upsetting is that poor guy who survived. Everyone is so busy being angry and pissed off at EVERYONE they can possibly be mad at.....and the rage is just feeding itself....and it's all over the news......

 

This poor guy is going to wake up, and not only is he going to have to deal with being a sole survivor.....after losing co-workers and friends......he's got that community anger he's going to have to cope with too. "Oh, that's silly, those people aren't going to be angry at him for surviving. That makes no sense." You may be inclined to say. Well when have people made sense? Cruel reality. After everyone is done giving this guy his token pat on the back you-survived-good-for-you...... that angry undercurrent will still be there. He will find himself a pariah.

 

It's a waste of time to pity the dead, pity the living.

[Asimov]

I was about to eat my words, but then I realised something....what gigantic hypocrits!

 

Those assholes with their families in the church decide to pray to God when they hear that the miners had been found alive, no thanks of course to the huge rescue effort. It wasn't until they realised that the miners were dead (something that was the most likely possibility) that they looked at the rescue effort INSTEAD of God and began blaming.

 

You fucking pray to God, you fucking pray to him for EVERYTHING that happens! Don't blame those people, blame your fucking God!

[white_raven23]

Ah but Asimov,

 

Surely you KNOW that god had a very precise and exacting plan for seeing all of the miners out of the mine safe, sound, and smelling of holy incense.......and those damn rescuers got in the way, screwing up the intricate balance of events god had set into motion. Damn those rescuers.

 

Neveryoumind this makes those rescuers infinitely more powerful than god! Shut up!

 

"I b'lieve in Jezuz,

I b'lieve in Criez.

I can go see Jezuz,

if I act real niiiize."

 

Name the book! Come on! Name it! Anyone!

[Asimov]

Ah but Asimov,

 

Surely you KNOW that god had a very precise and exacting plan for seeing all of the miners out of the mine safe, sound, and smelling of holy incense.......and those damn rescuers got in the way, screwing up the intricate balance of events god had set into motion. Damn those rescuers.

 

Neveryoumind this makes those rescuers infinitely more powerful than god! Shut up!

 

"I b'lieve in Jezuz,

I b'lieve in Criez.

I can go see Jezuz,

if I act real niiiize."

 

Name the book! Come on! Name it! Anyone!

 

Silence of the Lambs!

[white_raven23]

Ah but Asimov,

 

Surely you KNOW that god had a very precise and exacting plan for seeing all of the miners out of the mine safe, sound, and smelling of holy incense.......and those damn rescuers got in the way, screwing up the intricate balance of events god had set into motion. Damn those rescuers.

 

Neveryoumind this makes those rescuers infinitely more powerful than god! Shut up!

 

"I b'lieve in Jezuz,

I b'lieve in Criez.

I can go see Jezuz,

if I act real niiiize."

 

Name the book! Come on! Name it! Anyone!

 

Silence of the Lambs!

 

Yeah baby!!

 

Asimov gets a cookie!!

 

And yes that retardo-butt poem went through my head all day yesterday when the whole outcome was still an unknown and "prayers" and "Miracles" were battling in out for most often repeated word on CNN (although, I too was hoping for a positive outcome).

 

Get your fat ass off the pew and get to serving those rescuers juice and food......actually DO SOMETHING that actually contributes!

[BlueGiant]

Not a whole lot else to say, other than that was a serious Grade-A Fuck-Up in reporting any way you slice it. I can understand most of the families being pissed over this.

 

And yeah, perhaps someone should come on and blame god. Fair and Balanced, y'know.

[Vixentrox]

Wasn't the reporters this time fucking up so much as the people who made the mistake in realeasing there erronous info. I seriously wish they would be blaming god now though since they were heaping praise on god for saving them just before.

[Mythra]

I read the AP article on this today. It's a terrible thing for the families that lost husbands and fathers. Poor bastards just trying to earn a living. Dying down in a hole in the ground. Too bad.

 

Anyway when they thought that 12 had survived - the AP article had them ringing church bells, praising God, and the Governor declaring it a miracle. A couple of hours later, they found out it wasn't such a miracle.

 

It did quote one guy as saying "I can't see where God did us a hell of a lot of good"

 

So, what's going on there now? A prayer vigil. I shit you not.

[Pariah]

The whole situation just goes to show that "miracle" is just a label that humans put on events and not necessarily anything more.

[white_raven23]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060105/ap_on_...WtkBHNlYwM3MTg-

 

 

Tragically only the folks here in this forum will likely see what is deeply disturbing about the following quote:

 

Gayle Manchin, wife of Gov. Joe Manchin, spent time with the McCloys Wednesday.

 

"I'm here today with the one miracle that came out of this," the first lady said, adding that mining and mine tragedies are part of the state's identity.

 

"Unfortunately, this is part of West Virginia history, so we understand that this is about prayer," she said.

 

Is.....EVERYONE in WV this mental? Most of them seem to INSIST on doing their best to wrap christianity around this tragedy.

 

Sick and wrong I say.

[Amethyst]

The whole situation just goes to show that "miracle" is just a label that humans put on events and not necessarily anything more.

 

Not to mention, it's usually a very dramatic event that's broadcast on national TV.

[charley]

When people try to preach christianity to others, after being told to desist: I am all for treating the people invoved with contempt. However, at times when people are trying to find meaning and develop some kind of understanding of the deaths of loved ones with christianity, I think the more proper focus is on the faith, and not on the people. As responsible as each one of us is for striving for self-awareness and clarity (the antithesis of christianity in my view), at times like this people are desperate. My focus is on promoting a perspective that I think works better for everyone in promoting atheism, not in elevating myself by denigrating others at every opportunity. Allthough I have and will again attack people violently, physically and in other ways, there is nothing to be gained by me in attacking these people. I just promote what I think is a world view that can provide more strength and meaning than the one they, in my view, fall victim too. But I don't berate them for trying to comfort themselves and their surviving loved ones the best way they know how. Even if in their misery they misguidedly attack people trying to help them. That doesn't accomplish anything I'm interested in.

Anyway, on second thought I can see these comments being made rhettorically, without being the direct personal attacks they are characterized by me above. But whatever the intent is, I think the most fruitfull line of inquiry is on the dynamics of the beliefs themselves.

For instance, I've found that no matter how sharp and modern a person thinks they are, when faced with a tradgedy their real world-view snaps into focus from out of their unconcious. This comes from knowing of soldiers who thought for demonstrable reason that they were the toughest thing on earth, and that they would smile and spit the devil in the eye as they died....instead call out for their mothers while doing so, promising to be a better person if spared. Also, when 9/11 happened, many people ran around asking "...why us, why us?..." Both of these examples reveal a deep-seated formating on our thinking that was imposed by christianity, and is still there in many people and is undetected unless a reaction to a painfull loss uncovers it. That is the belief that "...good things happen to good people...". That is the kind of basic orientation that will guide people to find the same kinds of philosophies over and over again in different forms. Different variations of that same theme over and over again. I could go on, but I'll just leave that as a point of interest...mainly because I want to make something to eat....

[Asuryan]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060105/ap_on_...WtkBHNlYwM3MTg-

 

 

Tragically only the folks here in this forum will likely see what is deeply disturbing about the following quote:

 

Gayle Manchin, wife of Gov. Joe Manchin, spent time with the McCloys Wednesday.

 

"I'm here today with the one miracle that came out of this," the first lady said, adding that mining and mine tragedies are part of the state's identity.

 

"Unfortunately, this is part of West Virginia history, so we understand that this is about prayer," she said.

 

Is.....EVERYONE in WV this mental? Most of them seem to INSIST on doing their best to wrap christianity around this tragedy.

 

Sick and wrong I say.

 

 

What the FUCK??

Has anyone told the governor's wife that things such as security measures exist?

Is she really saying that mine tragedies are something that should be accepted because they're part of a state's "identity"??

Man, if the wife of our president had told such a thing after the earthquake that killed lots of people in northern Italy some years ago, she would've been torn to pieces. There's a limit to the bullshit you can say even if you are related to someone powerful.

[Guest spaceman_spiff]

Is.....EVERYONE in WV this mental? Most of them seem to INSIST on doing their best to wrap christianity around this tragedy.

 

Sick and wrong I say.

 

 

This is the way it always goes. It wouldn't matter if they all lived or all died, it'd still be some sort of miracle. I've heard people say that gawd held up the Twin Towers on 9/11 to let more people live. Yep, folks, thousands dead -- but it's a miracle! Yikes.

 

On a semi- sort of- related note: My daughter was born about 4 months early, and almost didn't live. A lot of kids born before 25 weeks gestation don't make it, but medical technology and preemie care has advanced by leaps and bounds in the last two decades. I get more than a little irritated when people chalk it up to gawd helping her. Hello? Modern medicine saved her, not your invisible friend. If gawd is such a great neonatologist, then why did virtually none of these kids even live until 10-20 years ago? I just don't get it. What is wrong with crediting the hard work of doctors and nurses, or rescue workers, or whoever, and leaving it at that?

 

Anyway...my heart goes out to the families of those miners. They have obviously been through the wringer, and it doesn't sound like they're getting much useful outside support.