I Don't Know Where To Go From Here

[Rose]

Hi guys.

 

I have never made a post here before, but I really need to get things off my chest. Apparently I've been a member here for almost a year, and I remember looking on the main site months before that. At this point, if my faith hasn't come back, I doubt it ever will.

 

I don't feel like getting into my deconversion story right now.

 

My husband and I got married last May. We had a lovely Christian wedding, even though at that point, I didn't believe. I made a vague attempt to try so that my vows wouldn't "mean nothing," but they still meant the world to me. My wedding day was still perfect without God.  I'm only 23 and he is 22. Since our wedding, our involvement in church has decreased. I have since graduated from college and we have stopped going to our college ministry. We have also stopped attending church. But even before our wedding, we weren't very involved anymore. My husband was raised in a strong Christian family. However, on his own, he does not really read the Bible or... well, even pray. We also had premarital sex. His moving away from involvement was gradual too and probably influenced by me. The thing about it is that he still says he is a Bible-believing Christian. I ask him why involvement is not so important to him these days, and he says because we're busy, and eventually it will become more important. This is confusing to me. Does that sound like something a Christian who believes would say?

 

He knows that I'm cynical to Christianity at this point. I've never quite said "I don't believe anymore, " but he knows approximately where I stand.The weird thing is we still have a great relationship. It's as if religious belief means nothing. It's as if it never meant anything. I feel really glad that my Christian husband is not really a "Christian" like the ones you meet at Chruch, but it still bugs me that he says he believes XYZ but does nothing about it.

 

We're about to move to a new city. And that's when we need to make decisions about who we're going to meet. I'll be honest with you all. I don't know how to make friends outside of church. I never have. For the past almost year, I've honestly been pretty isolated from friends. A lot more that I used to be, because it feels awkward being around people who are always talking about God. I don't want anyone to ask me "What has God been teaching you lately" or "Want to come to our Bible study?" but it's like I can't just have fun with them and avoid these questions. Also, not to mention FAMILY and pressure from them to believe. They would view me (and us) so differently if they knew we were not Christians anymore. God forbid to think of us raising children who were not at church 3 times a week.

 

So I feel kind of in limbo. I don't know how to move forward with my life as a nonbeliever. I don't want to be fake forever, but I also don't want to be rejected/judged by my family and friends. My fear is that I'll be a fake Christian forever and have to raise my kids like that. And to some extend, my husband will be too...  what do you think about him? Do you know Christians like him? Maybe he just doesn't feel the "need" for religion, but believes just because he has always believed.

 

It's confusing. Life would be so much easier if I could just believe again. Even now, I still want it. Life as an ex-christian is difficult and isolating. If you have any words of advice or encouragement for me, please reply. This is the first time I've ever been this honest.

 

[mymistake]

Well there is lots of good news there.  You guys get along great.  From what your wrote there it sounds like you want to come out.  That is always a risk but how much of a risk depends on how the degree of fundamentalism that has griped your family.  Can you accept him if he stays religious?  You definitely want him to accept you even though you lost your religion.   You might want to emphasize your relationship.  Perhaps you should ask if he is open to attending a unitarian universal church.  You might feel less threatened there.

 

The best way to make friends outside of church is to find a small group and join them.  It could be anything.  Just be confident, friendly and mingle.  Eventually you will bump into people who are looking for more friends.

[★ Citsonga ★]

I recommend www.meetup.com to find new friends and acquaintances. You could search for keywords like freethinker, agnostic and atheist. Or you could look for groups based on your interests that don't pertain to religion. I wish you all the best as you figure out the best path for you. Good luck and enjoy th journey ahead of you....

[Roz]

 

 

It's confusing. Life would be so much easier if I could just believe again. Even now, I still want it. Life as an ex-christian is difficult and isolating. If you have any words of advice or encouragement for me, please reply. This is the first time I've ever been this honest.

 

Hang in there, and like Citsonga said, the journey's much easier with like minded friends.  You've got an opportunity to paint your life as you want it, not as some figment of imagination wants it. 

[Ellinas]

Your husband sounds like someone who doesn't want to admit his own lack of belief.  It is easy to cling to the past in the hope it can be recovered.  Usually, it cannot.  Time may well move him further from is Christian roots.  There is a danger that confrontation my drive him back - though maybe only temporarily.

 

I would suggest not making an issue over the religious aspect - try and identify mutual interests outside of Christianity, focus on those and seek to make friends through them.  Your husband may welcome simply ignoring Christianity and the religious side of things may well simply wither into unimportance.

 

Of course, if family decides to intrude, you may have little choice.  In the end, you may just have to remind them that it's your life for you to live as you see fit.

[Llwellyn]

The majority of Christians wear their christianity very loosely.  Just because he doesn't go to church and doesn't pray or read the Bible, and doesn't care about church doctrine or rules does not mean that he is not a Christian.  Christianity defines itself, and Christianity is as Christians do.  I would not challenge him or doubt his religion.  Most us us exChristians were once very earnest about our faiths.  That doesn't mean that those who are casual are not Christians.  (Although this is irrelevant, I observe that those who are more earnest about the religion are more likely to deconvert, and those who are more casual are less likely.)  Happy to hear that you have a great relationship.  That is the most important thing.  Co-religionists can have crummy relationships.  You have a great relatsionship even with diversity of views.  That is definitely something to celebrate.

 

I would recommend that you quite say "I don't believe anymore."  Doing that would be like ripping off a band-aid that needs to come off eventually.  Just do it now and let the chips fall where they may.  It's a good time to do it while you are still young, uninvested in a church, not parents.  He has the luxury of being honest and direct with you -- you deserve that luxury too.  The transition to a new city, new environment, new friends, and new "family" is a perfect inflection point in your life to forge a new identity and become the person you are.  As far as meeting people outside of the church, start with your work colleagues and neighbors.  Then check out meet-up groups in your area, like groups that visit restaurants or music events, or hiking clubs.  It will take some effort, but it's not difficult or impossible.  If you are going to a city, you will find there are lots of other young people who are in the same position and are looking to meet people like you and your husband.

 

"Life would be so much easier if I could just believe again" -- The only way to do this is to get a lobotomy!

[Bhim]

Hi Rose, nice to meet you.  I'll start by saying that I'm probably not the most qualified to speak on this issue.  Thank God, no one in my family is Christian.  And I mean no one, not my wife, my immediate family, my aunts, uncles, cousins, second cousins, or anyone else.  I can't think of a single distant relative I know who believes in Jesus, and for that I am immensely grateful to whatever God may exist.  I spent six years as a Christian in college and grad school, and when I left I was fortunate not to have to face any of the painful backlash from family that I often read about on these forums.

 

So the next thing I'll say is that you've really got something going for you.  Your new husband is a bad Christian, which probably makes him a good person.  Some people here at ex-C have had serious issues with their spouses over their lack of belief in Jesus, sometimes to the point of divorce.  So if your husband is fine with your tacit lack of belief, my first reaction would be that it may be a good idea to just not rock the boat.  Different people go through deconversion in different ways.  For me it was pretty immediate.  Within the span of a week I went from fundamentalist evangelical to Jesus-hater (and for the record, I still despise Jesus for the evil hellhound that he is).  But then, for me there was no cultural baggage to give up since I wasn't raise Christian.  Based on other stories I've read here, I see that for some it's difficult to say "I don't believe in Jesus" right away.  If you were raised Christian, and if the church has always been your primary social center (which appears to be your case), then giving up Jesus means giving up more than just an intellectual position.  You need to give up your very way of life and a lot of family ties.  This is something I can relate to, because I went through it when I converted to Christianity.  Given that, I can fully understand why someone might want to remain a cultural Christian, even though Jesus and the New Testament teach some of the most depraved and wicked doctrines ever inflicted upon mankind.

 

Now, I'm not saying I have all the answers here, and many other ex-C'ers may rightly disagree with me.  The great thing about not being a Christian is that you don't have to pretend you have all the answers, when said answers are obvious bullshit.  But my personal suggestion is to maybe simply take things slowly and not publically come out as a non-Christian right away.  Your husband seems to be OK with not going to church very often, and it sounds like even when the toils of life slow down he still won't be interested in active church involvement.  So why put yourself through the difficulty of advertising your intellectual position on the gospel of Jesus Christ?  If going to church on Christmas and Easter keeps your or his family happy, a few hours out of your year are a small price to pay for family stability.  And unlike evangelicals, I really am a big believer in family values.  But again, maybe I'm wrong.  Llwellyn presents a good argument to the contrary, so you're able to consider both points of view before your decide what to do.

 

As for the more practical side of things, as someone who is also newly married and who just got a job, I'm wondering how much of your social isolation has to do with your lack of belief in Jesus, and how much of it just comes with the territory of your new stage in life.  Back when I was in both college and grad school, I used to spend most of my time with friends.  For the part of this period when I was a Christian, it was mostly church friends.  After I deconverted, I still went out with people from the physics department almost every night.  Nowadays, my life consists of going to work, coming home, and doing whatever housework my wife assigns me.  We go to the Hindu temple on Sundays and see some of my friends every couple of weeks, but that's pretty much it for outside social interaction.  All of our free time is spent with each other, and there's not a lot of time left for meeting new people.  Your milage may vary, of course.  But it may be that part of your feeling of isolation just has to do with the fact that you recenty graduated college and got married.  Just a thought.

 

Anyway, I hope things go well for you, and I'm glad you've loosed the shackels of Christianity.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I married my first wife when I was around y'all's age.  At the time, I was a lot like your husband: christian in name only.  My (now ex-) wife was agnostic.  Unfortunately for her, my christian in name only thing was just a phase.  About a year and a half after the wedding, I went full-on hardcore fundie again and she couldn't stand it.  We divorced not long afterwards, which is really a shame because we had been so happy together at first.

 

I don't say this to scare you; but rather to prepare you.  You guys need to sit down and talk this thing through.  Find out exactly what your husband believes and admit to him that you no longer believe.  Discuss the future.  What does he mean when he says he'll get back into church later in life when things aren't so busy.  Discuss how you are going to raise your children together, and be honest with him about your desire not to raise them as fake christians.  Tell him how alone and isolated you feel about hiding your unbelief and that you hope you can continue to rely on his support. 

 

I wish my first wife and I had had such a conversation, especially now when I look back and see how unnecessary our divorce really was.

 

Also, it sounds like you guys are financially independent from your families and since you are getting ready to move away anyway, this might be a good time to come out to your family.  My personal opinion is that the sooner you get it out in the open, the better for all parties involved.

 

Best of luck to you and please keep us informed.

[florduh]

Life as an ex-christian is difficult and isolating. 

 

Life as an Ex-C is different than the life you got used to. Try to refrain from contrasting real life with cult life. In the real world we don't have prayer retreats, casserole fellowships, indoctrination sessions every week or prayer breakfasts, but we do have breakfast with friends, movies, TV, dances, concerts, bowling leagues, hobbies and real friends. A religion (cult) may offer an instant community, but it's an artificial relationship based on a professed shared belief in a particular superstition. Real community doesn't come pre-packaged, but it's worth whatever time and effort it takes to build.

[RipVanWinkle]

Rose: My wife is still a christian, but not hard line. Thank goodness. But she is defensive about my agnosticism and thinks I'm wrong. I am the one who wanted to discuss the reasons for my deconversion. When I tired, it upset her.I recognized 

that method is dangerous, so we have agreed not to discuss the matter. By that I mean we don't discuss the merits of Xtianity. 
She is active in her church, which is very moderate. She loves to sing and that's her main reason (I believe) she attends. I go with her when the church is having a special  event. It does not bother me. I am by no means an outgoing person, so I don't interact with church members much. We have kept our promise to each other and it is working. I should mention that we have been married for over 50 years, so our marriage would be very hard for either of us to give up.

 

So my situation is different than yours. But I am going t make some suggestions which I hope will be helpful. If your marriage is the most important issue for you, you should tread lightly on his beliefs. As has been said, a luke warm Xtian can turn into a 

fundamentalist with extreme views lightening fast. I've seen it happen to people I thought least likely to do so.

 

It would be better for him if you avoid his joining a fundamentalist or charismatic church. Those people are brainwashed. Other than not going to church at all, his going to a moderate main line church would be less likely to entrap him into the faith. Go with him if you can tolerate it. If a church is known to "speak in tongues", prophesy, believe in the "end times" being imminent, etc., it is not the right.church for him. I want to emphasise to make your suggestion of the church for him to attend very nonchalant and if he doesn't buy it, back off quickly.

 

Check out or buy a good book challenging Xtianity (there are a number of good ones), read it and leave it lying around in plain sight. If he brings it up, see if he will discuss some point made by the author that you think particularly strong. Many such books have been written by former pastors. There background could be something he might be interested in. 

 

You can think of other subtle ways of bringing up your doubts and your reasons. But every attempt to discuss Xtianity should be gentle and non-aggressive. Back off immediately if he reacts badly. If this method, after having given it a reasonable time to succeed, does not work, you can always agree to disagree and avoid talking about it. As I say, the latter has worked for me.

 

My focus has been from the beginning to preserve my marriage. Being a christian won't kill her, if it comes to that. You just have to grin and bear it.

 

The above is not for everybody. It depends on many variables, such as your tolerance level, your husband's intensity, etc. Of

course, If you can talk with him about it rationally, do it. Educate yourself on the legitimate criticisms of the faith so you can answer his questions. One last thing. Try to engage him on the subject soon, if he will do so. The sooner he can be exposed to the real weaknesses of his faith the better. I'm sorry for writing so long. It is so important I want to do my best to help you if I can.

 

                                                                                                                                          Good luck and welcome.   bill

[ExCBooster]

You don't have to go it alone, Rose. Posting here is one step toward getting you in contact with people who can support you, so I'd say you're on the right track already. Most public libraries also have community message boards. You can see if there's a free-thinker meet-up, if you want to try out meeting with like-minded people. Your social life doesn't have to have anything to do with religion, either. Join a book club, or other hobby group. There's all kinds of things you can do. It will also be easier for you to look to large cities, regardless of where you live, for groups to join. In small towns, it's a lot easier for the community to become all the same. In a large city, there's so many people and opportunities that it encourages diversity. Good luck, Rose - I'm glad you posted - and we're here for you, if you need us.

[Woodsy]

Hello Rose, so glad you shared with us and that you are here.  This is a safe place, I know because I've been here so many times and have found the help I needed in the deconversion process.  Let me tell you about my dear husband of almost 45 years (this May).  I was a hard-core religious person for most of my life.  He wasn't. He was just a hard worker, providing for his family over the years.  A very good man, just not a believer in organized religion.  He tried off and on to come with me to whatever church I was attending at the time (and I tried them all!).  When our third child was born, he just sort of gave up on all of that. As I look back, it put a strain on our marriage that lasted for many years.  Somehow, we just muddled through.  Fast forward to today......we are retired and living our dream on 13 acres in a little house in the country.  When we found our place, we called it the Little House in the Big Woods!  I found another church to join and we both jumped in with both feet.  We both thought we had found what we were looking for.  Almost a year ago, we both started seeing and hearing things at church that just wasn't right to us.  The biggest thing that disturbed my husband was a sermon by the pastor about the killings in the old testament that god demanded his people to do.  He said that because the Hebrews did not obey god and kill a certain group, that is why we have problems today in the middle east.  My hubby said that his god would not do such a thing.  That started me thinking and searching and brought me to where I am today.  We left that methodist church and are at peace. We both made this journey together and, you know, our relationship is the best it has ever been. We talk more about the things that really matter and we laugh alot now.  He told me that, in the past, he tried to accept all those teachings in all those churches I went to over the years.  He tried for me, but, in the end, just couldn't.  I love him for that.  I never in my wildest dreams would have thought I'd be where I am today....an ex-christian and very happy!

 

Hang in there, sweetie!  We are all on a journey and things take time.  Be good to yourself.  Visit the site often to vent, ask questions, and share.  I wish you peace on your journey.  

[RipVanWinkle]

"The biggest thing that disturbed my husband was a sermon by the pastor about the killings in the old testament that god demanded his people to do.  He said that because the Hebrews did not obey god and kill a certain group, that is why we have problems today in the middle east.  My hubby said that his god would not do such a thing."  Woodsy

 

 

That kind of thinking caused the Crusades and just about every other war in the West. It is a truly dangerous belief.   bill