The Desire To Sin

[LukeExChristian]

i want to make it clear before i get started that my deconversion started because of my own critically thinking nature. (if you're interested in the semi-full story http://new.exchristian.net/2014/01/in-eye-of-hurricane.html?m=0)

 

20 tear old male. i have never drank, or had sex, or partied hard. you can even see in my bio to the side that i like magic the gathering and video games. i stayed indoors when i wasnt at school or church function, i tried to make myself known as "a good kid". but i dont belive in this ridiculous idea of yahweh anymore. my morals and standards arent based on the bible. christianity is no longer a factor in my daily decisions.

 

therefore, at least by my judgement, guilt should not be stopping me from getting completely wasted. however, if i do, i WILL have to tale S--t from my family. because, from their point of view, that leads striaght to hell. (and i understand there view of the possible situation, albeit i strongly disagree with them). i love my family but the thought of religion turns me melting red hot with anger on the inside

 

this is the dilemma i have been wanting to vent about: i am sick of letting religion tell me what i should do and what i should feel guilty for doing. if there comes the day i finally get laid and my family finds out. someone, likely not all at once from everyone in my family, someone will throw a guilt/condescention ball at me. "you should not have done it" "you know better"

 

this is what i dread: when i have to finally throw it up all over them that i dont give a rats ass about what's in the bible anymore. that i now realize that faith is the dumbest concept when i once thought it was some supernatural force. that my morals come from my understanding of reality rather than from a higher power, making me free to think about and scrutinize my morals rather than taking it for face value. that i CANT STAND the thought of believing by faith. WTF is this god's problem with informed decision making? your omnipotent god created, gave me free will, and now he's going to send me to hell because i do not believe? KNOWING that was where i was going? i am going to hell because i examined my doubts rather than dismissed them? religion is obsolete, i am smarter than that. i know im only 20. but you know what, my 60 year old grandmother? allow me to explain to you why half of your life was stolen by religion and why you are better than christianity.

 

 

there i feel better

[TrueFreedom]

Nice vent, young man.  Hopefully you can be out on your own soon making your own way.  In the meantime, there's more to lie than hard partying.  Take care.

[mymistake]

It is none of their business.  If they get nosy you can tell them "it is none of your business".  If anybody gives you crap about Biblical morality just tell them that the Bible says you can rape any woman who is not engaged to be married as long as afterwards you give her father two troy pounds of silver.  And then she has to marry you and obey you for life.  Bible morality sucks.

 

You might need the reference:

Deut 22:28-29

[LukeExChristian]

In the meantime, there's more to lie than hard partying. Take care.

i may have given the wrong impression. i am in school part time and i work a job, i feel that i contribute to society. i do have life plans, but i am smart enough to make sure i dont mess up my future. (studying for a computer science minor)

[RipVanWinkle]

There is no sin, only good decisions and bad decisions. By "bad" I mean what hurts you or someone else without cause. Welcome and keep coming back. bill

[LukeExChristian]

There is no sin, only good decisions and bad decisions. By "bad" I mean what hurts you or someone else without cause.

i'll remember that. mind if i use it?

[Kurari]

People don't know how to use either religion or morality. Most religious folk are just acting like parrots and repeating what they've heard. 

I decided to start drinking because I have a family full of alcoholics. I'm serious. I don't drink very much and I'm very picky about what I drink, why I am drinking it, and I don't drink to the point of drunk. It's the same with marijuana (which I take medicinally). 

Neither of these things is sending me to Hell just because I use them. Hell is just a state of mind, and we have control over that. So I make it a point not to make life hell for myself or others. It's that simple. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Base your life on your decisions alone, no one else's.  It's one thing to ask advice; it's another to be controlled and manipulated.  I allowed myself to be manipulated when I was your age, in the name of religion, and I ended up having to go back to college at 35 with a wife, child, mortgage, and bills.  Learn from my mistakes; that's what I made them for.

[amateur]

You sound like a serious, responsible, hard-working young man.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with mixing that up with some fun.  Most of the young people I know work hard and are responsible, but also have some fun at parties and with responsible sex.  That is absolutely normal.  And at your age, you have no need to explain your every moment to anybody.

 

If you are still totally dependent on your family for finances and a place to live, you might need to limit some things, but there is still no reason you can't go and have some fun in an evening or on a weekend.  

 

There's no reason to feel guilt for having some fun and having a normal young-person's life.

[RipVanWinkle]

There is no sin, only good decisions and bad decisions. By "bad" I mean what hurts you or someone else without cause.

"i'll remember that. mind if i use it? " LukeExchristian

 

Be my guest.  bill

[LukeExChristian]

You sound like a serious, responsible, hard-working young man.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with mixing that up with some fun.  Most of the young people I know work hard and are responsible, but also have some fun at parties and with responsible sex.  That is absolutely normal.  And at your age, you have no need to explain your every moment to anybody.

 

If you are still totally dependent on your family for finances and a place to live, you might need to limit some things, but there is still no reason you can't go and have some fun in an evening or on a weekend.  

 

There's no reason to feel guilt for having some fun and having a normal young-person's life.

 

 

almost brought tears to me eyes. i wish someone would have told me this 5 years ago. it's something i'll probably tell my children one day

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

There is no sin, only good decisions and bad decisions. By "bad" I mean what hurts you or someone else without cause.

"i'll remember that. mind if i use it? " LukeExchristian

 

Be my guest.  bill

 

Hey, you used the quote feature!

[amateur]

LukeEx, I'd like to gently point out that your mind-set you show in the title of this post "The Desire to Sin" shows a very xian bias.  If you were trying to be satirical or cynical, then it's a great title!  But if you're actually struggling with concepts like sin and morality, and growing beyond them, you need to think about your words.  Drop words like "sin" and "guilt."  Drop the idea of biblically-based "morals."

 

Luke!  You KNOW what's right and wrong for you!  And you know what you want to do to have some fun while you're doing what you need to do to make your future plans happen.  You also know what you would NOT do with you life -- such as trashing it by getting wasted every night, littering the landscape with your baby-mamas, and car-jacking for fun (that doesn't take morals learned in church, that's just common sense for any reasonably intelligent person).

 

So unless you were being satirical or trying to be funny with the title "Desire to Sin" (which I agree would be funny coming from an ex-xtian who is now getting out there and living a little!), please give it a more reasonable name like "I Wanna Have Fun!" or "Fuck The Guilt Trip."  The anger you express in the rest of the post doesn't really match the possibly satirical title.  Your anger and frustration sound very very real.

 

Go do something you want to do that would be a not-family-friendly thing, and let us know about it!  Have some fun!  Several years ago I dated a guy who was around 55, and had been raised by a Jewish mother and Catholic father, both of whom were long dead but still alive in his head.  This man, though he had dropped religion in his life had NOT dropped the considerable guilt he had been raised with on both sides, and was the most conflicted person I had ever met!  He smoked weed a bit, drank a lot, had a reasonable career, and died a thousand deaths every time we had sex.  He was wracked with guilt every time he "sinned," which didn't keep him from "sinning" but made him attempt to justify every damn time he lit a joint, drank, or had sex.  He was a NICE GUY and had NO FUCKING CLUE that he was!  You know what?  You're 20.  Don't let this dog you the rest of your life, or until you're 55 and subjecting a girlfriend to a "confession session" every time you get naked together.  You can get over this NOW.  Don't let this fester forever.  You are NOT a bad person.  You sound perfectly reasonable to me.  Go out and have fun.

 

Have a drink on me!

[Akheia]

It can be really hard to get that indoctrination out of your head even after realizing the religion itself is nonsense. There's a reason Christians prey upon the very young more than any other group. If you're working for a living and paying your own way, then it's really none of their damned business how you choose to spend your free time. It's not even their business if you're not--if they're not directly involved in your festivities, then their only concern should be whether or not everybody involved was of age to consent and there voluntarily (and, I reckon to be fair, if it occurred under their own roof).

 

I agree it might be to your benefit to drop the very word "sin." Most of what Christians think of as "sin" doesn't hurt anybody at all and isn't anybody's business but the folks involved with the act--when it's not a thought crime to begin with. They have a really tough time untangling what is and isn't their business, and they really do not like the idea of their input not being required to run anybody else's life. They've somehow gotten the idea that codependence and enmeshment are valid models for good relationships. I doubt they'll be pleased to realize you're not buying into that sick mindset anymore.

 

I think you're well on your way to a really fun life free of that idiocy. I hope you continue to learn and grow. Best wishes!

[Ellinas]

I can't add much to what has been said.  To put it briefly, william7davis is correct objectively, but from a subjective standpoint "sin" is whatever you decide it is.  To be rid of the stranglehold of this old doctrine, you need to change your mindset, and dropping the terminology is a good start as Amateur and Akheia suggest.  Your morality is within your control - don't let the ingrained fears of your past rob you of that.

[LukeExChristian]

now that you mention it, i had never realized how much "sin" was just getting into people's business where they had none. if i ever do any of the said things ive stated in this post, i'll keep it to myself when neccessary

[amateur]

Part of growing up is learning discretion in your personal life AND not getting into other people's business.  Sounds like you are growing up, and sounds like some of the adults in your life still have some growing to do!

[LukeExChristian]

i just got back from a bar 15 minutes ago. i met up with coworkers and i hung out. 

 

it did not go as well as planned

 

i contemplated getting down on the dance floor. but i was nervous, i did not want to let that stop me but i realized that if i went nervous, it would probably be apparent and no chick want to dance with a guy like that (as far as i think) and that make me look stupid more than anything else. and then i wondered, why i nervous about it? why was i nervous about coming here in the first place? why was i nervous about being here before i even saw the dance floor? i started realizing that sitting there was not fixing anything. i started to not feel very good on the inside. it was like what my christian family would have wanted. which made me feel worse. i knew had to leave and not go back until i get my shit sorted out

[violetbutterfly]

It might take some time. Be gentle with yourself and take small steps. Everything is not going to change overnight. Maybe the bar with the dance floor isn't the right place for you because it's just not your thing. Or maybe it will be eventually. Besides how you felt about dancing, did you at least have a good time hanging out with your coworkers?

[LukeExChristian]

it was ok. it was better than not going

[TheRedneckProfessor]

i just got back from a bar 15 minutes ago. i met up with coworkers and i hung out. 

 

it did not go as well as planned

 

i contemplated getting down on the dance floor. but i was nervous, i did not want to let that stop me but i realized that if i went nervous, it would probably be apparent and no chick want to dance with a guy like that (as far as i think) and that make me look stupid more than anything else. and then i wondered, why i nervous about it? why was i nervous about coming here in the first place? why was i nervous about being here before i even saw the dance floor? i started realizing that sitting there was not fixing anything. i started to not feel very good on the inside. it was like what my christian family would have wanted. which made me feel worse. i knew had to leave and not go back until i get my shit sorted out

I've always preferred a nice quiet pub with some good friends and really deep conversation.  I know part of this is because I was never allowed to go out to dance clubs and such; but it's also just who I am.  I prefer the in-depth over the shallow.  And I also hate crowded rooms and empty noise.  What you felt was probably some residual guilt and left-over christian baggage; but it could also be that you are more like me.

[Ellinas]

Luke, just as you are not obliged to abide by Christian ideas of sin, neither are you obliged to do anything with which you are uncomfortable.  A quiet drink with some friends over a conversation of mutual interest would be my preference personally - and whether the drink was alcoholic would depend on whether I'm driving.  Certainly, I've never taken to the dance floor in my life and I certainly have no intention of starting now!

 

Just take it quietly, and work out where your preferences lie.  Don't force yourself into situations if they are simply not to your taste.

[amateur]

But you DID it!  You went out with co-workers to the bar!

 

Baby steps, that's all you need to do.  Over time you'll learn what you're comfortable with and what you prefer not doing.  But it will be your choice, not your family's or religion's.  Nobody knows until they've gone out and done things, and dropped the things they feel uncomfortable with, trust me, everybody goes through this at your age (and even beyond), religion or not.  Also, keep in mind that nothing is written in stone.  I didn't enjoy dancing in public when I was 20, so didn't do it.  At 40 I was out with a friend and we danced and at that age it was fun!  I do still prefer being with a friend or two and having an interesting conversation, with or without alcohol, but I'm not averse to trying something different.  When you quit wanting to try different, new things you know you are OLD!

 

Congrats on going out and hanging out!

[Prometheus]

I was in your exact position 9 years ago, man.  In fact, I was a lot like you... didn't lose my virginity until I moved out of my house, never partied hard (until I moved out of my house), was an introvert, etc.

Here's my advice:  Go out with your mates.  You need to start investing in relationships outside of your family with non-Christians (or at least non-judgmental ones).  Alcohol can be a dangerous substance, so use it carefully.  It really does destroy brain cells. If it's legal in your area, smoke some weed to expand your mind, but don't become a pothead, because that really will destroy your life, even though we all love potheads and it sounds mundane.  You'll never succeed if you become addicted to it.  Stay away from harder drugs, although mushrooms and LSD can be profoundly insightful helpers on occasion, reminding you of important things about life you had forgotten (only if they are legal in your area, of course).

 

Use a condom, and most of all, remember that the best thing you can do for your Christian parents is be an example to them of what unconditional love ACTUALLY is.

[LukeExChristian]

I was in your exact position 9 years ago, man.  In fact, I was a lot like you... didn't lose my virginity until I moved out of my house, never partied hard (until I moved out of my house), was an introvert, etc.

 

Here's my advice:  Go out with your mates.  You need to start investing in relationships outside of your family with non-Christians (or at least non-judgmental ones).  Alcohol can be a dangerous substance, so use it carefully.  It really does destroy brain cells. If it's legal in your area, smoke some weed to expand your mind, but don't become a pothead, because that really will destroy your life, even though we all love potheads and it sounds mundane.  You'll never succeed if you become addicted to it.  Stay away from harder drugs, although mushrooms and LSD can be profoundly insightful helpers on occasion, reminding you of important things about life you had forgotten (only if they are legal in your area, of course).

 

Use a condom, and most of all, remember that the best thing you can do for your Christian parents is be an example to them of what unconditional love ACTUALLY is.

i wish someone told me this when i was growing up, i'll probably tell my kids something like that