I Confess: I Forced Indoctrination On My Children

[BabySteps]

My oldest child is 10. She's always been really into Jesus, most likely because she spent most of her weekends with my ex-husband in Catholic church, doing the rosary, prayer and the way of the cross. Just a year ago, i decided to really try out hardcore Christianity. I was reading my bible and praying every chance i could get. If i wasn't doing that i was watching some religious film or talking with other religious people. Last summer, i decided to start doing really intense Bible studies with my children. My daughter has always had really weird dreams throughout her life, but i began to notice her dreams started to change. Her dreams started to become more vivid. At the time, i started to believe that maybe God or satan was giving her these dreams, like a lot of Christians do. Every dream anyone told me about during that time in my mind was either from God or from the devil. We would spend a lot of time analyzing the subject matter of her dreams to decide whether or not satan was trying to bother her or whether God was trying to tell us something. Over the last few months, she's spent a lot of time watching a ton of religious movies instead of her kid shows. All she wants to discuss now is religious stuff. Now that i am slowly deconverting, I just feel downright awful. I feel as though i stripped her childhood from her. So this morning before school she came running up to me and said, mommy, I had a bad dream about you. In her dream, it was halloween night (which we did not celebrate last year, for obvious reasons lol). In her dream she saw a bunch of people dressed like satan. I was one of them. Then she said i walked into our house, and the only part of the house that was lit was my living room, and the rest of the house was pitch black. In the dream, her, my son and my mother began rebuking me to hell. Then i turned into a ghost, i shrieked and she saw me go to hell. I'm sure if i was much further in my deconverting process this wouldn't bother me so much... but i will not lie, it did bother me, especially considering that this dream came from a 10 year old child. It's bothered me all day! I don't know how to feel right now. I was beginning to feel so happy about my deconversion and now, to be totally honest i feel afraid. I am feeling a bit numb right now and just want to know your thoughts. While any of you were still Christians did you have these good vs evil type of dreams? Please help. Thanks.

[TrueFreedom]

Does your daughter know that you no longer believe?  If you haven't told her, do you think that she picks up on it?  I can see how that would trigger dreams like that.  I had some intense spiritually themed dreams when I was a believer.  One of them was all that sustained my faith for many years.  They can all be explained by natural means. Take care.  

[centauri]

I used to be deeply troubled by the idea that "Satan" or "the Devil" was putting ideas into my head.

As I started to break away from the faith, I made the shocking (to me) discovery that in the Hebrew scriptures (which Christians call the "Old Testament"), Satan is not an enemy of God but a servant.

There is no scripture in the Old Testament that states Satan ever disobeyed God.

There is also no "Devil" in the Old Testament.

Genesis never even mentions Satan, which effectively bursts the claim that Satan tricked Eve.

All of these ideas are simply concepts that evolved over time, being adapted by the new religion (Christianity).

My faith was punctured to the point where I started to question everything I had been taught (indoctrination).

The more I investigated, the more problems I found.

Once you reach this point, there really isn't any going back because you're only going back to a mirage, a facade.

[kolaida]

Is she aware of your de-conversion or can she pick up hints.  Dreams are usually just a subconscious thing, usually based on something we've been dwelling on or mulling over.  Obviously they can also manifest fear.  I had a horrible dream once about my friends going to Hell and them blaming me at the Gates asking me why I didn't try harder, etc, etc. It was something that bothered me for almost a decade and I thought on frequently.  Now I realize it was just my own deep fears. 

 

Maybe she is just honestly worried for you and she obviously has her own spiritual beliefs.  Hang in there! Don't feel bad about things that happen, we're all on our own journey through life. 

[seeker001]

You were only passing your values onto her, you never intended to hurt her.  Your values change, and it is never too late to at least plant the seed of open mindedness into your daughters mind. Like perhaps point out how different sects of Christianity have their own twist on the same material, or how the parent religion, Judaism, doesn't even have a hell. Nurture her curiosity and have her study her way out of the walled garden. If Christianity is the truth, than truth should always be able to stand up to criticism. Slowly direct her attention to other belief systems (Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, deism) and encourage her to find the similarities and differences between them. Oh and I hear the schism between the orthodoxy and the gnostic Christianity provides a lot of food for thought.  The worst thing that can be done is to force this on her, plant the seeds and let her curiosity do the work.

[Blue elephant]

My understanding of the scientific/psychological explanation of dreams is that they are the mind trying to make sense of all the disparate things that have happened during the day and working out which neuronal connections to build.

 

sounds like you have encouraged your daughter to attach too much meaning to her dreams. Perhaps if you check out some of this scientific research on dreams and then tell your daughter about it in simple language that she can understand, she will become more settled.

 

I thnk the crazy things we put together in our dreams are hilarious! Just under the surface, we are all a bit crazy and the crazy comes out to play every night in our dreams!

[FreeThinkerNZ]

You are not to blame for your daughter's distressing dreams, you did not intend to cause her harm.  As a parent you did the best you could with what you knew at the time.

 

Fortunately, the period of transmitting the "virus" of belief was relatively short, and she is old enough to be able to start working her way out of this, one age-appropriate step at a time.  You need to tread carefully though, given that her father also transmits the virus when she is in his care.  His religion probably means a lot to him and he would probably get pretty upset if he thought you were undermining his way of doing things.  Over time she will work it through, with gentle assistance from you.

 

I have only been on this forum a short time but I have read lots of posts about the non-existence of hell, satan, and demons, so stick around and you are sure to find good information to help you settle your mind.  As you get stronger and clearer in your own deconversion, it will rub off on your daughter.

 

Also, you mention she is your oldest child.  It probably wouldn't hurt to check out your other child/ren just to make sure they aren't heading the same way.  Oldest children often feel responsible for their younger siblings (another of religions "gifts") so there is potential for ideas to subtley spread beyond your daughter.

 

It sounds like you are on the right track and things should gradually improve.  Remember, you are not a bad parent and hell/satan do not exist.

 

 

[BabySteps]

"Does your daughter know that you no longer believe?"

 

No, she doesn't. Matter of fact, the only people who know are you guys on this site. I have slowly started to question things like the Bible to my friends and family, but I haven't actually come out completely to them. I realize when it happens, it has to be very strategic. Also to be perfectly honest, I'm still a bit afraid.

[BabySteps]

I used to be deeply troubled by the idea that "Satan" or "the Devil" was putting ideas into my head.

As I started to break away from the faith, I made the shocking (to me) discovery that in the Hebrew scriptures (which Christians call the "Old Testament"), Satan is not an enemy of God but a servant.

What you stated was one of the key issues I had with this Satan vs. Jesus situation. Countless amounts of time I've heard that satan has to ask Jesus to tempt us. I asked many Christians why??? Why would Jesus set us up to fail?? Of course I'd hear stuff like, He wants to see how strong we are! Doesn't make any sense to me at all!

[BabySteps]

Is she aware of your de-conversion or can she pick up hints.  Dreams are usually just a subconscious thing, usually based on something we've been dwelling on or mulling over.  Obviously they can also manifest fear.  I had a horrible dream once about my friends going to Hell and them blaming me at the Gates asking me why I didn't try harder, etc, etc. It was something that bothered me for almost a decade and I thought on frequently.  Now I realize it was just my own deep fears. 

 

Maybe she is just honestly worried for you and she obviously has her own spiritual beliefs.  Hang in there! Don't feel bad about things that happen, we're all on our own journey through life.

 

No one knows yet, except you awesome folks on here. You are right, she could just possibly be worried about me. I have decided to have a sit down with her this weekend so we can discuss this.

[BabySteps]

You were only passing your values onto her, you never intended to hurt her.  Your values change, and it is never too late to at least plant the seed of open mindedness into your daughters mind. Like perhaps point out how different sects of Christianity have their own twist on the same material, or how the parent religion, Judaism, doesn't even have a hell. Nurture her curiosity and have her study her way out of the walled garden. If Christianity is the truth, than truth should always be able to stand up to criticism. Slowly direct her attention to other belief systems (Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, deism) and encourage her to find the similarities and differences between them. Oh and I hear the schism between the orthodoxy and the gnostic Christianity provides a lot of food for thought.  The worst thing that can be done is to force this on her, plant the seeds and let her curiosity do the work.

 

I absolutely love the idea of discussing the different religions with her. This would be particularly helpful in her case because she's been taught by her father and his family that Catholicism is the one and true way to Heaven. Thanks for the idea

[BabySteps]

My understanding of the scientific/psychological explanation of dreams is that they are the mind trying to make sense of all the disparate things that have happened during the day and working out which neuronal connections to build.

sounds like you have encouraged your daughter to attach too much meaning to her dreams. Perhaps if you check out some of this scientific research on dreams and then tell your daughter about it in simple language that she can understand, she will become more settled.

I thnk the crazy things we put together in our dreams are hilarious! Just under the surface, we are all a bit crazy and the crazy comes out to play every night in our dreams!

As crazy as it sounds, I've never even considered doing scientific research on dreams, but I love the idea! I'll definitely look into it, I'm sure there is a ton of fantastic info!

[BabySteps]

You are not to blame for your daughter's distressing dreams, you did not intend to cause her harm.  As a parent you did the best you could with what you knew at the time.

 

Fortunately, the period of transmitting the "virus" of belief was relatively short, and she is old enough to be able to start working her way out of this, one age-appropriate step at a time.  You need to tread carefully though, given that her father also transmits the virus when she is in his care.  His religion probably means a lot to him and he would probably get pretty upset if he thought you were undermining his way of doing things.  Over time she will work it through, with gentle assistance from you.

 

I have only been on this forum a short time but I have read lots of posts about the non-existence of hell, satan, and demons, so stick around and you are sure to find good information to help you settle your mind.  As you get stronger and clearer in your own deconversion, it will rub off on your daughter.

 

Also, you mention she is your oldest child.  It probably wouldn't hurt to check out your other child/ren just to make sure they aren't heading the same way.  Oldest children often feel responsible for their younger siblings (another of religions "gifts") so there is potential for ideas to subtley spread beyond your daughter.

 

It sounds like you are on the right track and things should gradually improve.  Remember, you are not a bad parent and hell/satan do not exist.

 

Thank you, I really needed to hear that. I've been beating myself up like crazy lately. My 7 year old son is a young rebel Lol. He used to fall asleep, snoring and all during my bible studies lol!! So I don't think I'm going to have much issue with him. He's a free thinking child and is extremely smart. He asks a ton of questions on a daily basis. My only problem is their father. He is always giving them these pictures and images of the virgin Mary and telling them they have to keep the rosary and the scapular on at all times. It almost cult-like with him. It doesn't help that his younger sister is a nun Lol.

[centauri]

 

I used to be deeply troubled by the idea that "Satan" or "the Devil" was putting ideas into my head.

As I started to break away from the faith, I made the shocking (to me) discovery that in the Hebrew scriptures (which Christians call the "Old Testament"), Satan is not an enemy of God but a servant.

What you stated was one of the key issues I had with this Satan vs. Jesus situation. Countless amounts of time I've heard that satan has to ask Jesus to tempt us. I asked many Christians why??? Why would Jesus set us up to fail?? Of course I'd hear stuff like, He wants to see how strong we are! Doesn't make any sense to me at all!

 

Ironically, Jesus is what the Hebrew god warns his people not to follow.

Jesus was not God, yet claimed to have all the authority of God.

Jesus undermined parts of the law, which is a severe sin.

Jesus did not qualify to be a king messiah.

People have been so indoctrinated with Christian talking points that they know nothing else.

The very Bible they claim to revere destroys their so-called savior in detail.

Believers simply ignore all these problems because they really consider the "Old Testament" to be an outdated, mostly useless relic.

Yet, at the same time they still claim it to be God's infallible word and plan.

The hypocrisy is simply off the charts.

[amateur]

I have ALWAYS had freak-ass dreams involving about everything and have always woke up with whatever mood the dream left me in.  Just the other night, I dreamed that I was in a group of people and I was told I was going to die in ten minutes or so, and even though I knew that when I died it would be to nothingness (like I had just experienced in real life a week earlier when undergoing anesthesia for an operation) I panicked because I just wasn't ready to go yet, let alone in ten minutes, and I just didn't like KNOWING it was ten minutes.  Sheesh, if I'm going to die, just let me die, don't give me a ten minute countdown.  I was freaked in the dream and woke up feeling the same.  I have very strange happy dreams, too!  I like those!

 

I would let your daughter know that I appreciated her sharing her dream, stressing that it was just a dream, and that the feelings in dreams really are strong and feel real right after awakening, don't they?  Let her know that is totally normal.  Encourage her to share any dreams at all with you, and you do the same.  See if together you can find triggers from the day or days before that made those dreams happen (for instance, the feeling I went through with the anesthesia coupled with things I've been reading on this site about death and nothingness).  Focus on her happy dreams!  

 

Talk to her more about your feelings on religion (at a 10 year old level) and apologize if you were being too serious in her younger years.  Let her know what you believe now and that she is entirely safe.  

 

Ten year olds are the best people to talk to!  That's such a great age.  They're still young enough to want to please the adults in their lives, but old enough you can have slightly deeper conversations with them.  Enjoy that, and take advantage of it right now.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Your past does not need to define your future, or that of your kids.

[Pantophobia]

My heart goes out to your daughter. We had super-Christian family friends whose daughter ended up suffering almost a dozen years of mental illness and severe OCD as a result of the family's biblical teachings and Jeezus's "love." At the age of 8, 9, 10, 11, "Mandy" believed that she was responsible for saving others from hell with constant, ritualistic prayer. If she didn't do certain things that "good little girls" were supposed to do, she would go to hell, and her family with her. It started with things like tooth brushing and doing homework, but soon, every minute of her life was ritualized manic OCD behavior because of religion. By the time she was 14, thankfully her family finally sought non-religious therapy for her, and now, she is a healthy and strong practicing psychiatrist, helping others with similar issues. 

 

I have no idea if what I saw with Mandy would work with your daughter, but I would discourage you from hitting her with the news that you no longer believe. She doesn't need her foundation rocked that way right now, even if it's a false one. Add other things to it, if you can, not just multiple religions, but self-esteem related things, physical activity, etc. I've heard a couple people say that "dreams are the body's myths," so perhaps you can frame it as her mind's way of "telling stories" to her, as opposed to Jesus v. Satan messages. 

 

The two things I'd strongly suggest, however, is (as usual) some non-religious therapy, even just for six months, to shore up her foundation and give her a safe place to discuss the doubts and fears she's expressing. And, related, ask her paternal side of the family to please not discuss religion with your daughter or take her to church, because she is having some very troubling dreams. If they're going to freak about that, explain that in a year, you can revisit the idea of her religious education again, but right now, it's too confusing for her. Hopefully, instead of seeing that as a challenge, they'll understand.