AnonymousCoward Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2014/04/11/i-want-my-kids-brainwashed/ At least somebody admits they're brainwashing children, but the article tries to reason whether morality can be deduced then throws out the Nazi card and concludes therefore, morality cannot be deduced, we need Jesus, and we need to brainwash our children of this fact. Other quotes of note: "the effort in East Germany to systematically eradicate religion from society required a new form of brainwashing to inculcate its people with the socialist ideal" "Every aspect of who we are as humans is broken: our bodies, our emotions, our sexuality, and our thinking." "My kids' brains desperately need washing, as does mine. My children were born with intrinsic self-absorption that, if left unchallenged, might lead them down dangerous paths, both for themselves and others around them. But Jesus—the Logos, Reason incarnate—is the only one who has ever thought all of God's thoughts after him in a perfect way. Through his blameless life my kids will know what pleases God, and through his blood their minds can be cleansed. I pray that someday their minds will be so renewed that they will stand against some of the evils the world around them has embraced without a second thought." On an unrelated note, I should probably stop following all these Christian blogs now that I see it for what it is and they only make me angry. 1
Llwellyn Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 To tell someone that they are evil, and another person is good is the way to defeat their psyche and defense mechanisms. There is no logic or proof to what Christians say, it is just defended by offense and threat. 2
Llwellyn Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Jesus—the Logos, Reason incarnate—is the only one who has ever thought all of God's thoughts after him in a perfect way. Not quite sure why anyone would care to think God's thoughts. He is pretty foul-minded by human standards. But he is good by his standards. He is so different in kind from us, that I don't think that "thinking God's thoughts after him" is something that would befit any human. 1
par4dcourse Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 It's the xian version of "just say no" and we know how well that worked.
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted April 12, 2014 Super Moderator Posted April 12, 2014 Was this person not familiar with the "Hitler Youth" program? 2
Bhim Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 The Gospel Coalition consists of many of the "New Calvinist" types that I used to associate with as a Christian. Even now, years later their blogs make perfect sense to me, though I obviously don't agree with them. New Calvin it's believe strongly in the total depravity of man. So in their paradigm, yes of course we all need brain washing, i.e. to cleanse our minds of sin. But then, these guys make a living off of clever turns of phrase such as this, so don't be surprised to see articles like this. A lot of their sermon and blog titles are coined specifically for the shock value.
AJG Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 As much as I think Calvinism is the most pernicious idea ever conceived by man, it's the only Christian doctrine that makes any sense. God is an all-powerful tyrant to wills all and directs all. Man is a lowly worm that can't even understand God and would never seek him. The Elect are going to heaven because God chose them while the reprobate are prepared for destruction from the foundation of the world. Their idea of God being all-loving is that man is so worthless that God demonstrates his amazing love by saving anyone at all. It's straight out of a Jonathan Edwards sermon. But this view of God perfectly fits the God of the Bible. Any other watered-down version of God makes no sense. I enjoy reading TGC and the other Reformed blogs because it helps remind mind how reprehensible and nonsensical orthodox Christianity truly is and why my life is so much better having left it behind. 1
Ellinas Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 Calvinism may be internally consistent but it demands the assumption that God is utlimately cruel, and, in demanding that we consider him loving, dishonest. It is, however, refreshing to learn of Christians who admit that they are manipulative. However, the admission ultimately takes us no further, as we knew that already. Any system demanding social conformity, confirmity of thought and of belief, has to be in the business of indoctrination, and indoctrination is merely a synonym of "brainwashing".
violetbutterfly Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 I'm still in the process of deconversion, but this article made me irrationally angry. I'm on my phone, will post more in depth later.
sdelsolray Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 I'm still in the process of deconversion, but this article made me irrationally angry. I'm on my phone, will post more in depth later. A good way to address the anger is to spend time away from what angers you. Perhaps you could spend a hundred hours or so studying music, or reading up on scientific topics, or something else?
AJG Posted April 13, 2014 Posted April 13, 2014 "Every aspect of who we are as humans is broken: our bodies, our emotions, our sexuality, and our thinking." They just can't help but interject sex into everything. 1
violetbutterfly Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 I'm still in the process of deconversion, but this article made me irrationally angry. I'm on my phone, will post more in depth later. A good way to address the anger is to spend time away from what angers you. Perhaps you could spend a hundred hours or so studying music, or reading up on scientific topics, or something else? Thanks. I'm only about two months in and it feels really, really good to be angry. So many things about Christianity bothered me but I didn't allow myself to ever question anything for fear of hell. Now that I've realized what a bunch of crap it all is, I am allowing myself to get angry at all the hypocricy, and it actually feels like relief. "Every aspect of who we are as humans is broken: our bodies, our emotions, our sexuality, and our thinking." They just can't help but interject sex into everything. Really. It really is all about sex. This is the line that got me: ...the outcome of our thinking should be understanding and embracing the will of God, which is good, acceptable, and perfect. If our thinking leads us down any other path, it is most likely self-absorbed and darkened. No it's not. That is the entire reason I'm here today. Because I could not comprehend this concept. I TRIED to do God's will, and it blew up in my face. And the only way to fix it was to sin. However, my "sin" was loving the wrong person. Love. Not "self-absorbed" or "dark." I was so depressed over it I was suicidal. Do I burn in hell so I can be happy or do I suffer so I can go to heaven? It's all bullshit. 2
Bhim Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 As much as I think Calvinism is the most pernicious idea ever conceived by man, it's the only Christian doctrine that makes any sense. Quite right. This is precisely why I say that evangelical Christianity has no redeeming merit, and why I further say that Christians CANNOT be good people without being bad Christians. How can one possibly be a decent human being when he thinks his neighbor will suffer eternal conscious torment in a hell of fire?
xtify Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 wow... another low for christianity. This article sucks! I could get really angry about this guy's opinions, but I am trying not to be so bitter towards the people that put the 'mental' in fundamental. The author is completely ok with brainwashing his children, and says that they need it (barf): "My kids' brains desperately need washing, as does mine. My children were born with intrinsic self-absorption that, if left unchallenged, might lead them down dangerous paths, both for themselves and others around them." ... "So should I be offended if someone thinks church is brain-washing my kids? No, on the contrary!" I can't believe this guy ! He's basically saying he wants his children to be taught what to think and say, somewhere where inquiry is severely punished as 'doubt'. Leave it to christians to try and minimize the negative effects of brainwashing and skew reality, as if to equate brainwashing with something as normal as getting an education! Those mofos! Now I'm mad again. So much for my less bitter self. 1
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted April 14, 2014 Super Moderator Posted April 14, 2014 wow... another low for christianity. This article sucks! I could get really angry about this guy's opinions, but I am trying not to be so bitter towards the people that put the 'mental' in fundamental. The author is completely ok with brainwashing his children, and says that they need it (barf): "My kids' brains desperately need washing, as does mine. My children were born with intrinsic self-absorption that, if left unchallenged, might lead them down dangerous paths, both for themselves and others around them." ... "So should I be offended if someone thinks church is brain-washing my kids? No, on the contrary!" I can't believe this guy ! He's basically saying he wants his children to be taught what to think and say, somewhere where inquiry is severely punished as 'doubt'. Leave it to christians to try and minimize the negative effects of brainwashing and skew reality, as if to equate brainwashing with something as normal as getting an education! Those mofos! Now I'm mad again. So much for my less bitter self. I'd be willing to bet that the author wouldn't be so charitable toward the "wrong" denomination brainwashing his children -- or even worse a whole different religion - say Islam! Makes me mad too!
violetbutterfly Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 Good, kind, giving, loving, patient people can teach their children to be good, kind, giving, loving and patient people as well. No religion or brainwashing necessary. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp? It's really sad that some people think we need fear of hell to be good people, when in fact religion is part of what makes us so angry and weird in the first place. 1
R. S. Martin Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 Jesus—the Logos, Reason incarnate—is the only one who has ever thought all of God's thoughts after him in a perfect way. Not quite sure why anyone would care to think God's thoughts. He is pretty foul-minded by human standards. But he is good by his standards. He is so different in kind from us, that I don't think that "thinking God's thoughts after him" is something that would befit any human. You are thinking my thoughts after me--or is that me thinking your thoughts. Whichever way around is right, you put into words pretty much what I thought when I read that line.
R. S. Martin Posted April 14, 2014 Posted April 14, 2014 When I was a Christian I found a really powerful verse regarding fear that was quite different from "putting the fear of God" into someone, basically the opposite of "the fear of god is the beginning of wisdom." I looked it up just now and found another. Here they are: 2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. I'm sure anyone who wishes can re-interpret those verses to fit in with all the rest promoting fear. However, if we want to take them at face value, as I did the John passage when I was a Christian, we can see that there are verses in the Bible that promote sound mental health, i.e. power (self esteem), love, and a sound mind. Fear is bad because it torments. Paul also promotes mental health in some verses: Philippians 4:7-9 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. That promotes positive thinking, looking on the bright side, which is sound mental health practices as we know it today. BUT Paul makes one Big Mistake. He says in Verse 9 that we get this peace if we obey, i.e. this peace is conditional on obedience. I happen to come from a community where the rules are spelled out in black and white. I obeyed to the letter, as well as in spirit. I went above and beyond. Peace failed big time. That, my friends, is one of my proofs of God's nonexistence. God failed to deliver on a major promise over the course of decades. Some would say I tried to earn my salvation. Not so. I merely asked for the peace so richly promised to God's children throughout the Bible for this life and hereafter. Jesus promised, "Ask and ye shall be given." Etc. Remember the parable about the father who gives his children a stone for bread and serpents for fish. He says God does better than that. I found that to be a false promise. So I submit the Bible teaches some good things but God fails to deliver on the promise.
amateur Posted April 15, 2014 Posted April 15, 2014 Good, kind, giving, loving, patient people can teach their children to be good, kind, giving, loving and patient people as well. No religion or brainwashing necessary. Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp? It's really sad that some people think we need fear of hell to be good people, when in fact religion is part of what makes us so angry and weird in the first place. What you said here and above is so very true. My parents were good, kind, giving, loving and patient (most of the time! They were also lots of fun!) and my kids have become wonderful, kind, and patient young adults (most of the time! They like to roll their eyes at me sometimes!). My family was/is mainly agnostic. And peace? Well, when you're surrounded by family that is good, kind, etc, and loves you unconditionally, and exhibits common sense most of the time, you have peace and a nice feeling of all's right with the world. I still get very offended when I hear xians say you can only find peace thru god or jesus. No, not true.
ApostateAwoken Posted April 16, 2014 Posted April 16, 2014 Leave the fucking children alone. It's because of people like this that I suffer from mental health issues. My counselor, who is Christian, admitted it. I agree with Dawkins wholeheartedly. 90% of childhood religious teachings are child abuse.
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