Guest SerenityNow Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I usually do not like to watch talk shows but when flipping through yesterday I noticed Dr. Phil had a show on demon possession, hexes and curses. The first two guest were hex and curse type people and he gave what I thought was good advice...it's all in your head, you need to make it positive etc. However, when it came to the demon possession exorcism story I was so disgusted that I wanted to reach through the screen and smack Dr. Phil. He had a woman on probably in her thirties who said that her dad exorcised her at the age of nine. She went on to say that BEFORE this exorcism that her dad had been giving exorcisms for a couple of years, EACH NIGHT in THEIR HOME! She said she would hear all that went on, her dad "exorcising" evil spirits and shit, etc. etc. Anyway, the woman had nightmares as a child and when awake would see figures and hear things and was always afraid. At age 9 her mom got her out of bed, took her downstairs to the exorcism chair where her dad and church congregation are waiting. They put here in the chair, everyone laid hands on her and the exorcism began and she told Dr. P that she could hear her voice changed and it said "I am the Spirit of Lust, what do you want with her?" I started thinking okay Dr. Phil, give her some help here, set her straight. That is not what happened. He started by saying, "Your voice changed and started calling out the Spirits of Lust, Murder, Stealing, etc. Spirits that you heard your dad call out for two years that made you afraid?" The woman is in tears and says, "Yes." Dr. Phil then says, "I believe in these things, I believe that there is good and evil....! WTF?!?! He then goes on and she's worried about hell and he tells her to find a good HOME CHURCH and see a faith-based organization that can help her mentally and spiritually overcome her problems. Needless to say, I was just floored and disgusted. He makes lighthearted jokes to the people with the "curse and hex" issues but takes Christianity so freakin' seriously that he doesn't help her to see that it was what her father had been doing that put those awful things in her head to cause illusions and such. Instead of offering sound psychiatric advice, he recommends a church. I know he's a christian because there was another woman who woke up and barked like a dog each night and had horrible nightmares of evil for seven years and spoke in jibberish. He said that sometimes symbols help calm the brain and bring peace then he said, "In my case, it'd be a cross over the bed." I doubt I'll ever watch that show again. He said that he never will bash peoples beliefs on his show nor speak politics...In reality, he freakin' knows it's a mostly Christian audience and if he said anything remotely logical about the "demon possession" that he'd be out on his ass. I do think what those parents did in their home each night contributed to this woman's problem and IMO, she was a victim of horrific mental abuse. She was pregnant at age 14 and then again at 15 and has lived in fear her whole life...still does. If the exorcism worked, why all the problems? Afterall, daddy cast out the "lust" demon. She sincerely believes that her dad took some evil spirits out but then added more to her and she believes that is why she is so miserable. Ugh! I STILL am pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Serves you right for watching Dr. Phil Seriously, don't expect much from the talking picture box. TV sets should come with a big label right on the front, underneath the screen, similar to the sort of disclaimer found on gaming websites which states: "For Entertainment Purposes Only". We all need to remember that's what TV was made for and still is the only viable purpose it serves, our amusement. And consider the amount of televangelists today; the more you advocate the security blanket known as "Jesus" the more money and fans you'll end up with. Sad but true. I feel bad for the people who go to Dr. Phil, et al, for advice - they must be beyond desparate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising_L Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Lucky you, You just had to watch it on TV!! I had to listen to stories like that and keep a straight face. I'm not a Christian and never will be. Too open minded. But anyways, yeah what a load of crap! Stories like that make me feel sorry for people for being so nieave. I mean, come on the local church was in this girls house nearly every night when she was younger, shes bound to pick something up from the bullshit. Shes believes in God, Ok I don't mind that, believe what you want, but your Dad is not God, and I think if a deamon was going to posess someone to disrupt the world, he would choose a world leader rather that a nine year old 'Christian' girl from the arsehole of nowhere. (I'm irish by the way and arsehole of nowhere means middle of nowhere) And we unfortunatly get Dr Phil here too. I love this place!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I started thinking okay Dr. Phil, give her some help here, set her straight. That is not what happened. He started by saying, "Your voice changed and started calling out the Spirits of Lust, Murder, Stealing, etc. Spirits that you heard your dad call out for two years that made you afraid?" The woman is in tears and says, "Yes." Dr. Phil then says, "I believe in these things, I believe that there is good and evil....! WTF?!?! He then goes on and she's worried about hell and he tells her to find a good HOME CHURCH and see a faith-based organization that can help her mentally and spiritually overcome her problems. I could understand if he meant that he believed in those things if he was talking about the power of the mind. He even referenced it when he said that these are the voices she heard her dad call out for two years. This girl believed her father when he told her she was possessed and therefore she acted according to her own belief because she accepted it as being true. Her father can be said to have 'cursed' her. Man...the power of words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I was angry at that too. I was sitting there thinking "This lady needs medecine or something, but you're sitting there indulging her delusions!". Dr. Phil also pissed me off once when he was talking to a bunch of girls who had just escaped a rural cult and gotten to the city. The cult was sexually abusive, etc. Anyway, Dr. Phil starts telling them about his Christian beliefs (in generic terms) "My God would never tell his followers to do that!", etc. I was like "They just escaped one cult and you're already ttalking to them about your own! Gah!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I think one of the "fruits of the spirit" of christianity is opportunism. Christians see those who are in a crisis or down and out- even christians who are fed up with a different denomination than theirs- to use that opportunity to get a plug in for their own personal religion or specific belief within that religion. If I had a dollar for every time I needed help as a Christian, and the listener gave me "help" in the form of telling me that I had a wrong view of God and then giving me their belief/definition of who God really is. Most of the time, they had the exact same view, but they felt that by rewording or emphasizing certain themes that they were somehow on to something new. That is so very true - when I was fervently Xian (especially during my Catholic years) I always felt the need to push my brand of Xianity whenever someone needed help with an issue. I did it subtly, of course, but I was still doing it - such is the mentality of Xianity. It is a cult that makes you think you have to make as many converts as possible, no matter what you are trying to do, and that will color any help you provide to someone. You just can't give advice - it has to be followed up with some scriptural or theological theme or conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Tailor Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Is there any wonder why psychological sciences have such lousy reputations when its public faces are dolts like Dr. Phil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I could understand if he meant that he believed in those things if he was talking about the power of the mind. He even referenced it when he said that these are the voices she heard her dad call out for two years. This girl believed her father when he told her she was possessed and therefore she acted according to her own belief because she accepted it as being true. Her father can be said to have 'cursed' her. Man...the power of words. NBBTB, I agree with you and SN completely! When I was in seminary, a very liberal college, we got several people referred to us from churches for demon possession. The couple of people I encountered seemed to have Multiple Personalities or Disociative Identity Disorder. The WORST thing you can do is an exorcism! I had an associate who was dealing with a multiple personality, that had an altar as a tree! One could have an altar of a dog too! And to deal with it by putting a cross over the bed! PLEASE! That is very sad. I'm not too surprised Dr. Phil does not rocognize or validate this diagnosis though, as it only became fully accepted by the mental health professionals a few years back. Still, many psychologist don't believe in its true existence. I guess many of them would rather believe in demons? LOL I was taught in seminary a demon was only a belief in a lie. Change the lie to a truth, and the demon is gone. Where the light is, the darkness must flee. As you can see, the belief in a lie can be a very powerful force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 How frightening - to have a psychiatrist confirm on TV that you were probably demon possessed at the age of nine. Even as a christian - when I used terms like this it was always pretty obvious that these things were effected by the mind. I have to say that any situation where a child is got out of bed and brought downstairs where they then tell a group of people they are possessed by the demon of lust rings ALL the alarm bells for me. Not that I believe in 'actual' satanic abuse - but I sure accept that ritualistic abuse is used by 'actual' people to create situations where children are abused. In the course of my work, I have met with an offically appointed anglican 'exorcist' - I didn't know they existed as such but apparently in the Church of England there are a number covering different dioceses. I was interested to find that he worked closely with the Mental Health Service and was considered to be very sensitive to mental health issues by the CMHS. Sounds like he had more sense that Dr.Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I've never liked Mr. Phil (doesn't deserve the Dr.) He's a cack and should be strung up by his toes and whipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxyroze Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Is there any wonder why psychological sciences have such lousy reputations when its public faces are dolts like Dr. Phil? My thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML13 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I guess "demon posession" is not Dr. Phil's forte. What can you expect from a psychologist who has his own tv show. He has to be entertaining too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Sounds to me like the woman was acting and doing a good con job, probably just to get attention. Sigh...when will the guillible people ever learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beverly Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 WO thanks for the information first, the lady went to pentecostal church, if you have ever been to one, you know them when you hear their language the demon thing, well that is just a pentecostal thing all that "infilling of the spirit" outpouring of the spirit talking in tongues as the spirit give utterance, etc everything with them is spirit, spirit, spirit they love it conjure it up three times a week and worship it that part is very true so with all that calling down the power and infilling of the spirit going on, well, now they have to be casting out demons and that poor lady is another victim of spiritual abuse so prevalent in the churches today The Dr. Phil thing, scares me.... I saw what a good job he did shedding light on the poligamy cult and I was considering writing to him and getting him to do a piece on pentecostals maybe the pentecostals got to him first and "annointed" him or, maybe Dr. Phil just did a sly job of exposing them, without pissing them off pissing them off can be dangerous we will have to see how it works out for him maybe he looses his mind like George Bush did, when he got "annointed" Beverly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I always seem to stumble upon Dr. Phil's show when he does the worst topics (like this one for instance). I confess I did like to watch the opening of the show evey now and then, but only to her the problems of the guests (never dr. phil's advice), since it helps me out to hear people who have worse problems than me. anyway, I doubt I'll ever do that again, knowing I could end up with another major headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkepticOfBible Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I love this place!!!! Welcome to the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I was taught in seminary a demon was only a belief in a lie. Carl Sagan told me exactly what a demon is. Read, Demon Haunted Word, Science as a Candle in the Dark, and you'll find out too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Carl Sagan told me exactly what a demon is. Read, Demon Haunted Word, Science as a Candle in the Dark, and you'll find out too. Can I wait for it to come out on video? Or better yet... how about if a little mouse tells me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Can I wait for it to come out on video? I dont' really think that it's something that can be put on film. Or better yet... how about if a little mouse tells me? Hmmm... Well - to put it simply, demons aren't little red dudes with horns stickin' out of their heads. To sum-up the book as best as I can right now, it speaks quite a bit about ignorance, gullibility, superstition, a bunch of other stuff and how it changes and morphs as humanity progresses. You really should read the book in order to better understand it. It is written well enough for just about anyone to pick up the points being made there. You don't have to buy it. You can probably pick it up at your local library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 http://www.crystalcathedral.org/ad/drphil/ Heh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brutal Brian Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Let's not forget he got his start for TV on the Oprah Winfrey show. That should be 'nuff said right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charley Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Hey, Wolfheart, I went to that crystal cathedral site just to check it out. I used to watch their t.v. show. That pastor iis a likeable guy, passionate and intelligent, who seeks to communicate a positive-thinking approach. He would be a lot more interesting if he cut himself loose from christianity. I've only seen Dr.Phil a few times. Once was on David Letterman when he was a guest, after many previous weeks of Letterman making jokes about him. Letterman awkwardly refered to that, saying he was "just joking" and the doc just sat their glaring at him, telling him it was okay through clenched teeth, looking like he wanted to kick his ass. Now, I don't think anyone would want to be ridiculed in public like Dr. phil was by Letterman. But, when you have a t.v. show like Dr. Phils, where serious topics can only be explored enough to amplify dramatic effect because of time constraints and the need to provide entertainment above all else, shouldn't he be expected to be treated like a clown instead of a serious professional, as he I assume he does? His show is packaged as entertainment to fill spare hours, all claims of giving specifc advice to follow are carefully vetted out by attorneys, further entrenching it in the realm of triviality. So people will naturally joke about that show like any other, and perhaps more so with all of the "therapy" overtones. The fact thet he presents himself as a thorough thinker, allways citing his statements as being based on years of experience (etc.), and then opting out for the brain-dead-believer approach when faced with the unknown as in this advice to go to church, that shows him as severely limited intellectually and generally pretentious. The only way it could be otherwise is if he was employing what is known in psychology as the "wizard of oz" stratedgy in helping people achieve their goals. If you remember from that story, each of the main characters had a problem that was just based on the narrowness of their outlook. The tin man thought he had no heart, the scarecrow no brain, the lion no courage, and dorothy thought she was lost and far from home. Each beseeched the wizard of oz for these things, as if they could be handed out like pills. They had no confidence in themselves, and thought that only the wizard could provide these things for them. What the great-and-powerful Oz did was put them through an experience that forced them to develop and uncover in themselves the qualities they sought. But, the problem still remained that they couldn't believe they really possesed what they obtained. So he had to do something to give them the confidence that these were qualities granted bt Oz, as this was the only thing that would ease their minds due to what they believed of themselves. He did this by awarding the diploma for the scarecrows intelligence in the story, a testimonial for the tin mans heart, a medal for the lions courage, and showing Dorothy that she was allways home, where she belonged, because " home is where the heart is". The therapeutic metaphor here is that when people have small, mundane lives it eats away at their sense of self and their capsbilities, and when they have a problem they many times believe that only someone else can solve it for them, when the opposite is true, that only they can do it. The course of therapy is to give them challenges to make that gradually develop the qualities they need, while making it appear as if the therapist is doing it for them to give these successes credability. I can see Dr. Phil using the church this way, if that is the only place a person will believe the strength they need can be derived from. The therapy would then be complete, in my book, if he would end it with showing this faith in god as the same as the faith in being cursed or hexed, generally and literally, as only being as powerful as you allow it to be. Real hexing is a fascinating subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narcissist Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 That's what I love about TV; why waste time and money on all that therapy when you can solve your lifelong problem in the 10 minutes between ad breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianka Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 I like watching Phil sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 To sum-up the book as best as I can right now, it speaks quite a bit about ignorance, gullibility, superstition, a bunch of other stuff and how it changes and morphs as humanity progresses. Fwee, thanks for the info. It seems like a deeper inspection of demonlogy, yet isn't that basically what I said... demons are a belief in a lie, anything less than truth? I do go to the library, so I will plan to just browse through the book there. Charley, thanks for your post. Very interesting perspective, and a metaphor I will remember. Thanks to both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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