What Discovery Or Event Do You Think Would Change Christian's Minds About The Bible?

[LongWayAround]

I have pondered if there is some discovery or event that would cause masses of christians question whether the bible is not true.  I think about the past discoveries that seem like they would have had an impact but have been dismissed:

• Evolution
• Earth is not flat and is not the center of the solar system
• No scientific evidence for a world wide flood
• The earth is Billions of years old rather than 5,000 to 10,000
• No archaeological evidence for Israelites living in bondage in Egypt or for exodus
• Prayer studies conducted show no statistical difference in those who are prayed for and those who are not
• etc.

Then I try to imagine what discovery or event could happen that would be hard to dismiss:

• Scientists are able to explain what caused the big bang and what existed before that.
• Scientists are able to explain how life began and replicate it.
• Aliens make contact with humans and have no knowledge of any gods but are able to explain origins of life, the universe, and other scientific mysteries
• Scientists time travel back to biblical times and witness first hand what actually happened (or did not happen) 

I am skeptical that the last two items are possible but am just trying to think about all of the possibilities.

 

Thoughts?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I think Ken Ham provided the best "christian" answer to such questions during his debate with Bill Nye.  The answer he gave was, "Nothing."

[florduh]

Scientists are doing the devil's work and aliens are actually demons.

 

So, nothing would make any difference. Ever.

[par4dcourse]

Trying to use logic when talking to a christard is similar to trying to teach a pig to dance. It accomplishes nothing and annoys the pig.

[Fernweh]

We have sent humans into orbit and landed on the Moon. At least one of our spacecraft will eventually reach interstellar space. No sign of Heaven up there anywhere. It's doubtful Hell exists under the Earth although we haven't drilled far enough yet to know for sure. I'm going to go ahead and say Hell isn't under the Earth anywhere until something proves otherwise. The Bible is pretty clear where these two places are located yet nothing has been observed. I don't think any discovery is going to change a believer.

[ExCBooster]

You beat me to it, Professor!

 

Belief, by definition, doesn't have anything to do with proof, or evidence, or logic. At the heart of belief is a lie. Yet, there's serious trouble, when the claim is that the belief is true, in a way that can be explined objectively, with evidence, and logic. Then, they're dancing to a tune they can't keep, because they've already conceded, implicitly, that proof and logic are valid ways to find truth. That's why apologietics has to exist, to attempt to reconcile these problems. If the belief flies in the face of proof and logic, then it's not true, and it's only a matter of time before it's examined and debunked. Apologetics exists to run interference between belief and logic - to attempt to defend the unprovable from standards that they've already accepted by entering into a logical argument. It is, by definition, dishonest. That's why so much of it is so tremendously weak, logically.

[Ellinas]

The Professor beat me to that answer as well.  Christianity is a matter of faith, not logic.  All facts have to bend to the belief system.  "Let God be true and every man (or alien, for that matter) a liar" is the biblical shield for all inconvenient facts.  I know Christians who have stated to me that they believe scientists are evil conspirators against the "truth".  How can you convince anyone that a fact is not a lie if they are determined to believe that?

[♦ ficino ♦]

Every so often I fantasize about Athena showing up and setting everyone straight. But I guess Christians could say she was demonic.

[midniterider]

I have pondered if there is some discovery or event that would cause masses of christians question whether the bible is not true.  I think about the past discoveries that seem like they would have had an impact but have been dismissed:

• Evolution
• Earth is not flat and is not the center of the solar system
• No scientific evidence for a world wide flood
• The earth is Billions of years old rather than 5,000 to 10,000
• No archaeological evidence for Israelites living in bondage in Egypt or for exodus
• Prayer studies conducted show no statistical difference in those who are prayed for and those who are not
• etc.

Then I try to imagine what discovery or event could happen that would be hard to dismiss:

• Scientists are able to explain what caused the big bang and what existed before that.
• Scientists are able to explain how life began and replicate it.
• Aliens make contact with humans and have no knowledge of any gods but are able to explain origins of life, the universe, and other scientific mysteries
• Scientists time travel back to biblical times and witness first hand what actually happened (or did not happen) 

I am skeptical that the last two items are possible but am just trying to think about all of the possibilities.

 

Thoughts?

 

Christians generally don't question the validity of the bible. Not out loud anyway. Especially if their support system or social network is made up of Christians. Evidence be damned. :-) Christians (who want to keep their faith) aren't interested in the deep analysis of ideas that conflict with Jebus.

 

Logic with regard to faith holds no value for them. If they start to value their own thinking they may end up on this website. :-)

[midniterider]

The Professor beat me to that answer as well.  Christianity is a matter of faith, not logic.  All facts have to bend to the belief system.  "Let God be true and every man (or alien, for that matter) a liar" is the biblical shield for all inconvenient facts.  I know Christians who have stated to me that they believe scientists are evil conspirators against the "truth".  How can you convince anyone that a fact is not a lie if they are determined to believe that?

 

A guy I went to church with way back when told me to say, "Yes, that's nice but I believe in Jesus" should I encounter some reasoned debate with an unbeliever. :-)

[Kris]

I am not sure--- but I do wish something like this could be found!!!

[sdelsolray]

I have pondered if there is some discovery or event that would cause masses of christians question whether the bible is not true.  I think about the past discoveries that seem like they would have had an impact but have been dismissed:

• Evolution
• Earth is not flat and is not the center of the solar system
• No scientific evidence for a world wide flood
• The earth is Billions of years old rather than 5,000 to 10,000
• No archaeological evidence for Israelites living in bondage in Egypt or for exodus
• Prayer studies conducted show no statistical difference in those who are prayed for and those who are not
• etc.

Then I try to imagine what discovery or event could happen that would be hard to dismiss:

• Scientists are able to explain what caused the big bang and what existed before that.
• Scientists are able to explain how life began and replicate it.
• Aliens make contact with humans and have no knowledge of any gods but are able to explain origins of life, the universe, and other scientific mysteries
• Scientists time travel back to biblical times and witness first hand what actually happened (or did not happen) 

I am skeptical that the last two items are possible but am just trying to think about all of the possibilities.

 

Thoughts?

The only events I can think of that would likely change a theist's set of beliefs (including Christians) is for that theist to meaningfully develop rational thinking, healthy skepticism, adequate curiosity and a desire to address the emotional and psychological dysfunctions their theistic beliefs have caused them.  That, and all the hard work needed to use those tools effectively.

[seeker001]

Simple, have them really read the Bible and not around the influence of pastors, priests, or other clergy.  

and cover to cover.

[amateur]

Any discovery or event could/would be discredited as a lie from satan.

[Guest afireinside]

If they found Noah's Ark they'd be like holy fuck it's actually real? I never really believed but now I've got evidence to back shit up!

[boftx]

It is logically impossible to prove that the Universe and everything we can discover about it was not created a little over 6,000 years ago exactly as we perceive it today as a test of faith (or proof that "God" has a sense of humor.) Hence, there is nothing that can be discovered or witness that could be substantial enough proof to a Christian that their faith is wrong.

[RipVanWinkle]

A lobotomy.  bill

[rach]

I have often thought about what sort of event it would take to cause a-mum to even begin to question the authority of the bible.  Nothing so far has done it and she has had a lifetime of bible study.  I think there is something that would rattle a-mum and a-family's faith.  They've been taught about a lot of general prophetic events they are expecting in the future.  Things like rebuilding of the temple, antichrist, moon turns to blood (Acts 2:20), something they call wormwood that may be like a falling star.  So I think if some big "end times" catastrophe happened like a planetary collision or plague and none of the other bible prophecies happened to go with it, they'd be forced to start breaking from their bible-centered worldview. 

[francesco]

 

• Aliens make contact with humans and have no knowledge of any gods but are able to explain origins of life, the universe, and other scientific mysteries

you think alien can change their mind? think again!

http://carm.org/does-bible-tell-us-if-there-life-other-planets 

 

On the other christian website they said that if aliens came to earth it's an opportunity to learn about their views on god and creation (religion). And if they didn't have any, it's a new field for evangelism

[older]

A lobotomy.  bill

"Not all lobotomies heal properly." -- Norm Leibman

[boftx]

A lobotomy.  bill

 

"I would rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy." - unknown originator, possibly W.C.Fields or Steve Allen.

[LongWayAround]

... Christianity is a matter of faith, not logic.  All facts have to bend to the belief system. ....

 

This is a good point that several have made and reinforced.

[LongWayAround]

Simple, have them really read the Bible and not around the influence of pastors, priests, or other clergy.  

 

That was the primary thing that brought me to see the light.

[RipVanWinkle]

"Not all lobotomies heal properly." -- Norm Leibman 

 

 

No, but there is a good chance it will change their personalities. Any change would be for the better.   bill

[R. S. Martin]

"Not all lobotomies heal properly." -- Norm Leibman 

 

 

No, but there is a good chance it will change their personalities. Any change would be for the better.   bill

 

Hmmm. I have a lot of respect for you, Bill, but I wonder if you ever saw the video I was shown in one of my classes of the man who did have a lobotomy. Or was it the guy who had the gruesome accident in which a stake pierced his skull and destroyed that part of his brain. His personality was changed alright but I doubt anyone would say it was for the better. I think I would feel safer with a rabid evangelical fundy Christian, at least where it concerns physical well-being. The poor man lost all sense of conscience or right and wrong, what is decent or humane or reasonable. If I remember correctly, one of the examples shown was his absolute dilemma when asked to make an appointment; he could not do it because he had zero knowledge of his desire as to when he wanted to make it. 

 

A man who lacks the self-knowledge and conscientiousness to make a simple decision re when to see his doctor most certainly lacks a lot of other very basic values or abilities, too, making him a liability we do not choose to live with. Just thought to throw that out there when we lightly say such-and-such would be better off with a lobotomy.