Oh Hell

[themonkeyman]

Hi Folks,

I am writing this to as a help for other Ex-Christians as well as hoping to calm fears that some people have of the horrible idea of Hell – I hope HenryCD also gets some strength from this.  Since most people just read what others write and at times are not convinced I am going to demonstrate what Jesus actually said when he mentioned Hell!

Firstly I must confess that I am not going to use works that are in the Bible that are actually bull crap to the highest degree.

 

So I am going to exclude some books from the NT that to be honest really should not be there and considering most scholars vary on their legitimacy I will exclude them.

The books that I am excluding are:

 

James, Jude, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, Revelation, Hebrews, Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1&2 Timothy and Titus.

 

The reasons for these exclusions is because these books among scholars are now being critically examined and are now seen as later editions credited to earlier writers.  E.g. Christians wrote them!  The book of Revelation for example is a known fraud.

 

Following a quick Google search of the word Hell and Fire It has returned the following Passages

 

Revelation 21:8 / Matthew 25:46 / Matthew 13:50 / Acts 2:27 / Mark 9:43 / Jude 1:7 / Proverbs 15:24 / Proverbs 23:14 / Matthew 13:42 / Matthew 25:41 / Revelation 19:20 / Proverbs 15:11 / Matthew 16:19 / 2 Peter 2:4 / Revelation 20:13-14 / Matthew 10:28 / Ezekiel 18:20 /2 Thessalonians 1:9

 

Excluding the books from the List above we are left with Matthew / Mark / Acts / Proverbs and Ezekiel.

 

These are the verses for each of these in both English and in Greek from the Codex Sinaiticus.

 

 

Proverbs 15:24

24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

 

οδοι ζωηϲ · διανοηματα ϲυνετου ϊνα εκκλιναϲ εκ του αδου · ϲωθη

 

 

Proverbs 23:14

14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

 

βοθροϲ βαθυϲ · ϲτομα παρανομου ο δε μιϲηθειϲ ϋπο κυ . εμπεϲειται ειϲ αυτον ειϲιν οδοι κακαι . ενωπιον π ανδροϲ και ουκ αγαπα · του αποϲτρε ψαι απ αυτων  αποϲτρεφειν δε δει · απο οδου ϲκολιαϲ και κακηϲ

 

 

Proverbs 15:11

11 Hell and destruction are before the Lord: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

 

None Found in Codex

 

 

Ezekiel 18:20

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

None found in Codex

 

 

 

Matthew 25:46

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

εποιηϲατε και απελευϲονται ουτοι ειϲ κολαϲι αιωνιον οι δε δι καιοι ειϲ ζωην αιωνιον

 

 

 

Matthew 13:50

50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

των δικαιων και βαλλουϲιν αυτουϲ ειϲ την καμινον του πυροϲ εκει ε ϲτε ο κλαυθμοϲ και ο βρυγμοϲ τω

 

 

 

Matthew 13:42

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

την ανομιαν και βαλλουϲιν αυτουϲ ειϲ την καμινον του πυροϲ εκι εϲτε ο κλαυθμοϲ και ο βρυγμοϲ των οδο

 

 

 

Matthew 16:19

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

 

ϲιν αυτηϲ δωϲω ϲοι ταϲ κλιδαϲ τηϲ βαϲιλειαϲ των ου ρανων και ο εαν δη ϲηϲ επι την γην ε ϲται δεδεμενον εν τοιϲ ουρανοιϲ και ο εαν λυϲηϲ ε πι τηϲ γηϲ εϲται λε λυμενον εν τοιϲ

 

 

 

Matthew 10:28

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

ματων και μη φο βιϲθε απο των α ποκτεννοντω το ϲωμα την δε ψυ χην μη δυναμε νων αποκτιναι φοβιϲθε δε μαλλο  τον δυναμενον και  ψυχην και το ϲωμα απολεϲε ε γεεννη

 

 

 

Mark 9:45

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life lame, than having two feet to be thrown into hell.

 

και εαν ο πουϲ ϲου ϲκανδαλιζει ϲε · αποκοψον αυτο · καλον εϲτιν ϲε ειϲ την ζωην ειϲελ θιν κυλλον · η χω λον · η τουϲ δυο πο δαϲ εχοντα · ειϲ τη γεενναν βληθη

 

 

 

Acts 2:27

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

 

πιδι οτι ουκ εγ καταλιψειϲ την ψυχην μου ειϲ α δην ουδε δωϲειϲ τον οϲιον ϲου ϊ δειν διαφθορα

From this we will identify the words of Jesus there are several places that Jesus mentions Hell directly so let’s translate the words he spoke to direct English equivalent’s from the Greek.

Unfortunately I could not find the 3^rd Passage from Proverbs or Ezekiel in the Sinaticus so I will exclude these for now.

 

 

In the Old Testament:

Proverbs 15:24 = Αδου = Shoel

Proverbs 23:14 = απο οδου = Shoel

 

 

In the New Testament

Matthew 10:28  = Γεεννη = Gehenna

Mark 9:45 = Γεενναν = Gehenna

Acts 2:27 = Δην = Hades.

 

Then we have a move onto the word ‘Eternal’ this is an easy one as we can see.

 

 

Matthew 25:46 = αιωνιον = Age / Long Time

Matthew 25:41 = αι ωνιον = Age / Long Time

 

To conclude what we have learned is that when Jesus spoke about Hell he mentioned 3 places these are,  Hades / Furnace of Fire / Gehenna.

 

Hades is literally ‘Death’ / ‘Dead’ whatever you want to call it – It comes from the Pagan belief system of an underworld.

 

Furnace of Fire and Gehenna have big similarities in that Gehenna was a fire where things were burnt day and night so most likely he was just adding the ‘Fire’ effect to increase the strength of his point as opposed to saying Gehenna.

 

Look at it this way,

 

If I say I was going to throw you into the Garbage when you die – You wouldn't care!

 

However

 

If I say I was going to throw you into the Garbage Compactor when you die – You would probably worry more!

 

I believe personally it was used for dramatic effect.

 

Finally we cannot ignore that Jesus spoke in Aramaic and his Disciples more than likely spoke Hebrew and Aramaic but could not read nor write.

 

Since we do not have a single copy of the NT in existence prior to 200 AD – Which is after the church fathers got their hands on it and also given the fact we don’t have any in Hebrew or Aramaic it stands to reason that there would be translational errors.

 

When we look at the OT we notice the word Shoel that comes to the floor which is a more common word around the period of 300 BCE whereas after Plato etc. came around with their Philosophy the concept of Eternal – Infinity came about which Is probably when this was added to the Bible as a scriptural idea.

 

But Wait! There’s one other thing I want you to know!

In the Early Church there was another book running around that had a lot of credence, it was known as the Apocalypse of Peter it was surpassed by the early church because it essentially taught that everyone is saved in the end from their plight in Hell.

 

‘My Father will give unto them all the life, the glory, and the kingdom that passeth not away, ... It is because of them that have believed in me that I am come. It is also because of them that have believed in me, that, at their word, I shall have pity on men...’

 

Jesus did leave a disclaimer to this however.

 

[and God said]"... thou must not tell that which thou hearest unto the sinners lest they transgress the more, and sin."

 

So when you come to terms with everything – Just think which is more compatible with Jesus teachings, E.g. Sending everyone who does not believe to Hell or showing pity.  Remember his core teaching was Forgiveness!

 

In the words of Prophyry

 

It is almost impossible to win back anyone who has converted to Christianity: it is easier, he says, to write words on water than try to use argument on a Christian. They simply cannot understand the folly of worshipping as a god a man who had died as a criminal.

 

Rest easy my friend.

[Ellinas]

Interesting bit of scholarship.  I'll give this some thought.

[LukeExChristian]

christianity will tear your sanity to shreds

[EmmettBrown]

Is there any credible source about Revelation being a known fraud? I hadn't heard about that!

[RipVanWinkle]

Well, your analysis is probably right, but I have a back up plan: It doesn't make a bit of difference what the original writers actually said because there is no hell and never was one. bill

[DoubtingNate]

I'd also be interested in any info on Revelation.

 

Apocalyptic literature is pretty fascinating; in a way they are like the comic books of their time.  I heard a really interesting lecture about how the book of Daniel was written; it is fascinating stuff.

 

In college I did a paper on different interpretations on hell.  My main conclusion was:

 

1. Lots of that stuff comes from other world mythologies and NOT from a Hebrew worldview.

2. The word for hell can mean all kinds of different things besides neverending, eternal torment.  For example, Jesus uses the word 'destroy.'  Your soul can't be tortured forever and be destroyed.  When something is destroyed, it ceases to exist.