FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Our 4 countries have very similar legal/constitutional arrangements, well, at least we can say they are more similar to each other than they are to the US when it comes to church-state separation and having a secular constitutional environment. I have a problem with the encroachment of spirituality into healthcare everywhere, but particularly in NZ because I live here. I am about to make a complaint about a (govt-employed) health worker using xianity in their work, and I want to study up on the legal framework before I do that. I've found resources online from the US and they are great but, necessarily, they are talking about this issue in a country with a written constitution and some basis for arguing against religion being present in government buildings and services. We have a bill of rights but it is silent on religion, its more focussed on the justice system. Our human rights act prohibits discrimination on religious grounds. Not much help there. At this stage my argument would be based on our patients' code of rights, which includes rights such as respect, fair treatment, informed consent, and proper standards. I'm thinking of mentioning respect but focussing on proper standards because there is no scientific evidence for spiritually-based treatment methods. Proper standards would need to be evidence-based, wouldn't they? Does anyone have any thoughts, particularly about whether there is any legal/constitutional basis for challenging spirituality in healthcare in one of these 4 countries? Or thoughts on getting religion out of public services anywhere.
Bhim Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 I know that in the UK public schools teach religion, with an emphasis on Christianity. These laws, being far from a historical relic, we're strengthened in the 90s. So I'd guess that spirituality in a public workplace may not be illegal, if the NZ laws are the same. Not that I'm any expert on the matter. Maybe you could be more specific about the health care related spirituality, so that those who are experts can be of more help?
sdelsolray Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 Our 4 countries have very similar legal/constitutional arrangements, well, at least we can say they are more similar to each other than they are to the US when it comes to church-state separation and having a secular constitutional environment. I have a problem with the encroachment of spirituality into healthcare everywhere, but particularly in NZ because I live here. I am about to make a complaint about a (govt-employed) health worker using xianity in their work, and I want to study up on the legal framework before I do that. I've found resources online from the US and they are great but, necessarily, they are talking about this issue in a country with a written constitution and some basis for arguing against religion being present in government buildings and services. We have a bill of rights but it is silent on religion, its more focussed on the justice system. Our human rights act prohibits discrimination on religious grounds. Not much help there. At this stage my argument would be based on our patients' code of rights, which includes rights such as respect, fair treatment, informed consent, and proper standards. I'm thinking of mentioning respect but focussing on proper standards because there is no scientific evidence for spiritually-based treatment methods. Proper standards would need to be evidence-based, wouldn't they? Does anyone have any thoughts, particularly about whether there is any legal/constitutional basis for challenging spirituality in healthcare in one of these 4 countries? Or thoughts on getting religion out of public services anywhere. I don't know much about the law of NZ. Is there a law which allows you, as a patient, to refuse certain medical treatment? If so, you can tell the Christian medical provider that you refuse any faith-based treatments. If they persist, turn them in for violating your patient rights.
Guest afireinside Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 There was a govt funded prayer group set up in Wanganui hospital a couple of years ago. Must have a surplus of taxpayer money if that's what local councils are doing with it.
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 29, 2014 Author Posted April 29, 2014 I don't know much about the law of NZ. Is there a law which allows you, as a patient, to refuse certain medical treatment? If so, you can tell the Christian medical provider that you refuse any faith-based treatments. If they persist, turn them in for violating your patient rights. Good point. I can base it on the right of informed consent. Before you can be expected to give consent, you need adequate information about what the treatment will involve. If you weren't told it was going to include xianity, you can't have given informed consent.
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 29, 2014 Author Posted April 29, 2014 There was a govt funded prayer group set up in Wanganui hospital a couple of years ago. Must have a surplus of taxpayer money if that's what local councils are doing with it. That's the sort of thing I want to be part of campaigning against. We need a Freedom From Religion Foundation in NZ. Did you know that our House of Representatives starts each day with the Speaker of the House saying a prayer? There have been attempts over the years to stop the practice.
Ellinas Posted April 29, 2014 Posted April 29, 2014 As to the healthcare issue, I'm not aware of this being a particular problem here. The N.H.S. has a lot of Moslems, Hindus etc in its' ranks, and I vaguely recall seeing a "multi faith" prayer room set aside in a hospital, but this was for those who wanted it, not for any purpose of treatment. Occasionally some zealot gets into trouble for trying to force their religion on others through the workplace, but they seem to be rare and to get stamped on. What precisely is going on in N.Z?
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 29, 2014 Author Posted April 29, 2014 As to the healthcare issue, I'm not aware of this being a particular problem here. The N.H.S. has a lot of Moslems, Hindus etc in its' ranks, and I vaguely recall seeing a "multi faith" prayer room set aside in a hospital, but this was for those who wanted it, not for any purpose of treatment. Occasionally some zealot gets into trouble for trying to force their religion on others through the workplace, but they seem to be rare and to get stamped on. What precisely is going on in N.Z? I don't know the extent of the problem beyond my own experience because these issues are not portrayed in the media. Except for the occasional workplace issue such as an employee wearing a crucifix with a strict uniform and getting disciplined for it (I think it was a flight attendant or something) and another case was a hospital cleaner who carried a little bible around in her pocket. Sorry I can't remember the details. I think I may need to dig a little deeper and review the legal systems in these 4 countries more specifically. I'm sure they each have bill if rights/human rights laws and patient codes of rights. The lack of a single written constitution makes it hard to determine whether there is a specific codified state-church separation provision or a freedom of religion provision. On that note, the trouble with freedom of religion is that it doesn't go far enough - it usually leads to mere tolerance of different religions without protecting those with no religion from any religion. State-church separation appears to be a stronger way to protect people from religion, especially when receiving a government service like education or healthcare.
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