Why Are You Fearful Of Telling Your Christian S.o. That You No Longer Believe In Christianity?

[Deidre]

It seems like some of you are literally afraid of your spouse's reaction to 'coming out' with the fact that you no longer desire to believe and follow Christianity. Perhaps you are worried over losing your marriage, or rocking the boat, or your spouse feeling confused, and while I understand that--it seems like there is genuine fear in just coming out with it.

 

Otherwise, you'd come out with it.

 

You shouldn't be fearful of your own spouse/significant other. Really. You shouldn't. You should be able to have a healthy discussion with your SO, and explain your feelings, and should he/she react in a negative way, you should be able to discuss that, as well.

 

If you come back with 'I'm not afraid to tell my wife/husband...' then my answer is...why haven't you, yet?

 

I'm not meaning to offend, but rather get you to see your life in terms of what you want, not only what someone else wants for you. Relationships are often about compromise, but I wouldn't compromise on this level. Either someone I love accepts me for me, even if I've 'changed,' or not.

[Roz]

It's really not that simple, because you're assuming that both partners view the same reality.  The rest of my family is deep into SDA fundamentalism, their reality is that they have the 'truth' while the world is under satan's illusion. 

 

It's 10x worse when there's young children involved, because if the agnostic partner tells the fundie half that they're a non-believer, the fundie at some level will start being protective of the kids.  They're going to want to make damn sure their kids are saved. 

 

That brainwashed partner is acting with the very best of intentions, but if her outlook on reality is warped by jesus glasses... generally bad news all around.

[Deidre]

It's really not that simple, because you're assuming that both partners view the same reality.  The rest of my family is deep into SDA fundamentalism, their reality is that they have the 'truth' while the world is under satan's illusion. 

 

It's 10x worse when there's young children involved, because if the agnostic partner tells the fundie half that they're a non-believer, the fundie at some level will start being protective of the kids.  They're going to want to make damn sure their kids are saved. 

 

That brainwashed partner is acting with the very best of intentions, but if her outlook on reality is warped by jesus glasses... generally bad news all around.

That's very true. It wasn't all that long ago, that I hook line and sinker, believed in Christianity as the main stay of my life.I do get that it isn't easy. But, to not tell the person you love something like this. To keep going with the flow, or keep secrets...that's not healthy either.

 

I just think while it's daunting, coming out with it, will be easier. I have lost friendships over 'coming out,' and while it hurt in the beginning, I now see that what we had, must have been built on shifting sands, not true friendship.

 

But, I understand what you are saying, and I apprecicate the reply.

[Roz]

No easy answer definitely.  Fuck you, jesus, for telling your followers to love you more than their parents/spouses/children/loved ones. 

Seriously, jesus was a douchebag. 

[Bhim]

No easy answer definitely. Fuck you, jesus, for telling your followers to love you more than their parents/spouses/children/loved ones.

Seriously, jesus was a douchebag.

It is thus the height of hypocrisy for evangelicals to associate their religion with family values. Jesus is the original home wrecker.

[Deidre]

I forgot all about those passages in the Bible! Yes. That's so true! I remember when I was a Christian, interpreting that as a 'good' thing, back then. That I was putting Christ above the secular world. Family is considered...secular.

 

I guess the question becomes, are you willing to end your relationship, if it came to that, if he/she gives you an ultimatum?

[Deidre]

 

No easy answer definitely. Fuck you, jesus, for telling your followers to love you more than their parents/spouses/children/loved ones.

Seriously, jesus was a douchebag.

It is thus the height of hypocrisy for evangelicals to associate their religion with family values. Jesus is the original home wrecker.

 

Thing is, if Jesus existed, I don't believe he said this. I think this was yet another manmade invention to scare people into being pliable and controllable.

[R. S. Martin]

It seems like some of you are literally afraid of your spouse's reaction to 'coming out' with the fact that you no longer desire to believe and follow Christianity. Perhaps you are worried over losing your marriage, or rocking the boat, or your spouse feeling confused, and while I understand that--it seems like there is genuine fear in just coming out with it.

 

Otherwise, you'd come out with it.

 

You shouldn't be fearful of your own spouse/significant other. Really. You shouldn't. You should be able to have a healthy discussion with your SO, and explain your feelings, and should he/she react in a negative way, you should be able to discuss that, as well.

 

If you come back with 'I'm not afraid to tell my wife/husband...' then my answer is...why haven't you, yet?

 

I'm not meaning to offend, but rather get you to see your life in terms of what you want, not only what someone else wants for you. Relationships are often about compromise, but I wouldn't compromise on this level. Either someone I love accepts me for me, even if I've 'changed,' or not.

 

Maybe because they know the "healthy discussion" is not going to happen from the other side. A healthy discussion in which ideas and issues are laid out and looked at logically requires at least two clearly thinking brains. A freaked-out person who sees a devil with horns at the whisper of the A-word is not going to do his/her part of a healthy discussion.

 

If one knows ahead of time that the partner is going to freak out and heap abuse, rather than discuss things logically or in a healthy way, then there is cause to delay outing oneself. For such emotion-based individuals it's all about the right time and mood and presentation. In the other thread, it was emphasized how totally foreign logic is to evangelical Christianity, that it is a totally emotion-based religion. So it seems we are talking about emotional people practicing an emotion-based religion. 

 

That is why having this desirable healthy discussion is taking so long to happen. And most likely never will.

 

The closest to a discussion will probably be a conversation or incident that brings the believer to the realization that his/her partner no longer believes. Then horror will fills every crevice of the Christian's being, every fiber and breath, with no room left for discussion. I can see such a Christian treating the apostate like dirt or worse.

 

If you know ahead of time that your significant other is going to respond this way, I can see why you would consider it worth the effort to go to church for years to ease him/her into the changed situation. If the relationship isn't worth it for you, you'll come out. I'd guess most relationships are somewhere in the middle.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

The reason people are fearful of coming out to their spouse is likely because they know there will be real risk to the relationship, at a time when the newly deconverted/ing person is still coming to terms with having their own life turned upside down by losing their own faith.  Just because it's a good change doesn't mean it's easy.  Add children, esp. young children, into the equation and it's a recipe for misery indeed.  Parenting is hard enough without facing a potential divorce and years of attempted child-mindcontrol from the ex and their family (and potentially your own as well).

 

Divorce usually means a much reduced standard of living, upheaval, loss of friends, (initially at least) loneliness, stress and heartache.  The question is not why are people fearful of coming out, the question is why wouldn't someone be fearful of it? 

 

The best advice I can give someone in this situation is to take your time, get your ducks in a row first, and get support from those who have been through it themselves, and/or a (secular) therapist and, if necessary, a lawyer, to protect your children's best interests and your finances.

[Deidre]

It's just sad that two people who love each other would part ways over a difference of opinion with religion.

[RogueScholar]

It's really not that simple, because you're assuming that both partners view the same reality.  The rest of my family is deep into SDA fundamentalism, their reality is that they have the 'truth' while the world is under satan's illusion. 

 

It's 10x worse when there's young children involved, because if the agnostic partner tells the fundie half that they're a non-believer, the fundie at some level will start being protective of the kids.  They're going to want to make damn sure their kids are saved. 

 

That brainwashed partner is acting with the very best of intentions, but if her outlook on reality is warped by jesus glasses... generally bad news all around.

 

 

This above: I have been with my wife for many years. When we met, I was highly "conservative" and very religious. She spent just over a decade living with that persona, then boom, all the sudden she has to deal with a completely different person, changed in many fundamental aspects. That's a lot to dump on somebody who has spent years living and sharing life with a different person. It's understandable how difficult it can be to have one partner deconvert. Even more difficult to find out that partner has been hiding their feelings for some time prior to "coming out."

 

It is a shock to the other person and in some ways is a heavy burden to place on them. In a sense, it is not fair either. Religion can really muck things up for sure. "Coming out" can be a truly devastating affair, with the other partner feeling abandoned, rejected and even cheated on. There are many complex emotions and it takes a hell of a relation ship to survive deconversion in some cases.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

It's just sad that two people who love each other would part ways over a difference of opinion with religion.

Xianity teaches people to prioritise religion over their family.  It is sad that xianity exists and that it does this.

[Deidre]

I agree ^^

 

I guess I view relationships as two people don't "own" one another. I don't blame religion for people foolishly thinking that they do, simply because they've chosen to get married or live together.

 

Be careful to not blame the problems in your relationships on religion. No one should fear his/her spouse or partner so much that he/she lives a false life in order to keep peace.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

I agree ^^

 

I guess I view relationships as two people don't "own" one another. I don't blame religion for people foolishly thinking that they do, simply because they've chosen to get married or live together.

 

Be careful to not blame the problems in your relationships on religion. No one should fear his/her spouse or partner so much that he/she lives a false life in order to keep peace.

I think the blame rests squarely at the feet of religion, if we're talking specifically about the relationship problem that occurs when one spouse deconverts while the other reminds a xian (esp. if they are in any way fundie).  I don't think the deconverting spouse is fearing their xian spouse, they are fearing the likely consequences of coming out. 

 

I see "keeping the peace" as a temporary, healthy thing to do, while you get things sorted in your head and take any practical steps like getting (individual) therapy or taking legal advice.  Planning ahead can prevent a crisis from turning into a total disaster.  The deconverting spouse may be grappling with taking care of their own interests for the first time ever.  (Fundy) Xian marriage is all about enmeshment and codependency, and it can be scary thinking about your own needs, views and interests apart from your spouse.  It takes time to get the balance right and to deal with all the emotional upheaval.  As soon as you come out to your spouse, another dimension of disruption gets added to that process, because you then have to deal with their issues, their views, which will probably be quite challenging in the context of an already challenging deconversion process.

 

I really feel for people in this situation, as I know how hard the deconversion process can get even when you don't have a spouse and children to factor in.  When faced with a potential crisis like this. realistic expectations tend to be more useful than beliefs about how relationships "should" be.

[Deidre]

 

I agree ^^

 

I guess I view relationships as two people don't "own" one another. I don't blame religion for people foolishly thinking that they do, simply because they've chosen to get married or live together.

 

Be careful to not blame the problems in your relationships on religion. No one should fear his/her spouse or partner so much that he/she lives a false life in order to keep peace.

I think the blame rests squarely at the feet of religion, if we're talking specifically about the relationship problem that occurs when one spouse deconverts while the other reminds a xian (esp. if they are in any way fundie).  I don't think the deconverting spouse is fearing their xian spouse, they are fearing the likely consequences of coming out. 

 

I see "keeping the peace" as a temporary, healthy thing to do, while you get things sorted in your head and take any practical steps like getting (individual) therapy or taking legal advice.  Planning ahead can prevent a crisis from turning into a total disaster.  The deconverting spouse may be grappling with taking care of their own interests for the first time ever.  (Fundy) Xian marriage is all about enmeshment and codependency, and it can be scary thinking about your own needs, views and interests apart from your spouse.  It takes time to get the balance right and to deal with all the emotional upheaval.  As soon as you come out to your spouse, another dimension of disruption gets added to that process, because you then have to deal with their issues, their views, which will probably be quite challenging in the context of an already challenging deconversion process.

 

I really feel for people in this situation, as I know how hard the deconversion process can get even when you don't have a spouse and children to factor in.  When faced with a potential crisis like this. realistic expectations tend to be more useful than beliefs about how relationships "should" be.

 

In these cases, yes...religion might be the culprit, but I've seen many marriages end over one spouse deciding to take up exercising, while the other doesn't...the wife choosing to work, when the husband always wanted her to stay home and not work...when onewishes to go back to school and the other doesn't want that person to...

 

Religion is just another thing. Many marriage split up because one or the other partner thought marriage meant that he/she owned the other person and had a right to dictating what he/she did.

 

So, for the sake of this discussion, yes...we are speaking of religion. But, something tells me if it weren't religion, it'd be something else, because people's behaviors are what they are. Many marriages have one partner that is a bit more controlling than the other. I get the need to not blindside your partner with the news that you're abandoning religion. But, I would not pretend to be something I'm not, because I wouldn't want to be married to someone who didn't accept me for who I am. People change, and evolve. It's not like you're coming out and saying...'hey, honey...I've been doing something illegal behind your back and don't care what you think.'

 

I'm dating someone now, and he's an atheist. But, truthfully, I dated atheists, even when I was a Christian. If we get serious, and he tells me...'hey, I feel drawn to Islam...' I would have a choice I suppose to stay with him or not, but I wouldn't be like...'oh my gosh, how could you do this to me? You're a liar...etc...'

 

I had relationships where I walked on egg shells, and it will never ever ever happen to me again. It's a two way street. I will say that Christianity is very overbearing, and if two are Christians when they marry, there is this notion that without faith, their marriage wouldn't be sacred. So, there is that component.

 

The person who remains Christian may feel that the marriage is no longer a sacred bond. That piece of it could upset the remaining Christian partner. It is not easy, I know. But, it's not fair for this to be an undue burden on the person 'escaping' Christianity.

[mymistake]

Yes.  It was a real problem before I got my wife away from the Nazarene Church.  Almost every time we visited somebody would repeat the rumor that both people need to love Jesus or else a marriage just can't work.  Every time we heard that it made me angry and my wife afraid.

[bfuddled]

On one hand I get what you're saying, and the concept is correct, but, like others have mentioned, it's not so cut and dried, especially when you have children involved. Part of being a parent is taking your kids into consideration every time you make a decision and weighing your own needs against theirs. I don't think that I will "pretend" forever, but I won't make any hasty proclamations, either. There's a lot more at stake here other than just my own peace of mind and personal beliefs.

 

RIght now I'm still sorting out my own feelings/thoughts/etc about everything, and I don't know how well I'd handle a sudden onslaught of friends/family that were "praying for me" and trying to reconvert me. I want to get myself settled and on steadier ground before I put myself out there to others.

 

I do get what you're saying, though, and I know I can't/won't live like this for a long time. A relationship not built on mutual trust and honesty and acceptance isn't much of a relationship at all. And if my husband would truly leave me if/when I decide to talk to him about it, then it's probably for the best.

[Deidre]

Yes.  It was a real problem before I got my wife away from the Nazarene Church.  Almost every time we visited somebody would repeat the rumor that both people need to love Jesus or else a marriage just can't work.  Every time we heard that it made me angry and my wife afraid.

Are you and your wife both on the same page now, may I ask?

[Deidre]

On one hand I get what you're saying, and the concept is correct, but, like others have mentioned, it's not so cut and dried, especially when you have children involved. Part of being a parent is taking your kids into consideration every time you make a decision and weighing your own needs against theirs. I don't think that I will "pretend" forever, but I won't make any hasty proclamations, either. There's a lot more at stake here other than just my own peace of mind and personal beliefs.

 

RIght now I'm still sorting out my own feelings/thoughts/etc about everything, and I don't know how well I'd handle a sudden onslaught of friends/family that were "praying for me" and trying to reconvert me. I want to get myself settled and on steadier ground before I put myself out there to others.

 

I do get what you're saying, though, and I know I can't/won't live like this for a long time. A relationship not built on mutual trust and honesty and acceptance isn't much of a relationship at all. And if my husband would truly leave me if/when I decide to talk to him about it, then it's probably for the best.

But don't your personal views affect how you raise your kids?

 

I suppose it is one thing when it's just two adults in the situation, but I've often wondered how a couple who goes through this,deals with the 'aftermath' with the kids? How to raise the kids? With what 'worldview'?

 

I'm sorry for everyone who is caught in this situation. I say 'caught,' because when all of you married, I'm pretty certain just from reading these posts that you were not thinking you'd change your mind someday, about religion.

[bfuddled]

 

On one hand I get what you're saying, and the concept is correct, but, like others have mentioned, it's not so cut and dried, especially when you have children involved. Part of being a parent is taking your kids into consideration every time you make a decision and weighing your own needs against theirs. I don't think that I will "pretend" forever, but I won't make any hasty proclamations, either. There's a lot more at stake here other than just my own peace of mind and personal beliefs.

 

RIght now I'm still sorting out my own feelings/thoughts/etc about everything, and I don't know how well I'd handle a sudden onslaught of friends/family that were "praying for me" and trying to reconvert me. I want to get myself settled and on steadier ground before I put myself out there to others.

 

I do get what you're saying, though, and I know I can't/won't live like this for a long time. A relationship not built on mutual trust and honesty and acceptance isn't much of a relationship at all. And if my husband would truly leave me if/when I decide to talk to him about it, then it's probably for the best.

But don't your personal views affect how you raise your kids?

 

I suppose it is one thing when it's just two adults in the situation, but I've often wondered how a couple who goes through this,deals with the 'aftermath' with the kids? How to raise the kids? With what 'worldview'?

 

I'm sorry for everyone who is caught in this situation. I say 'caught,' because when all of you married, I'm pretty certain just from reading these posts that you were not thinking you'd change your mind someday, about religion.

 

 For me, when we got married we were both on the same page in terms of what we believed and how we wanted to raise our children (in the church). So on one hand I can totally understand why he could/would be upset if I suddenly changed the script on him and said I didn't want to do that anymore. I'm really not sure how I will deal with the situation with my kids, that will depend on how he responds.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

bfuddled, I recommend Dale McGowan's books on parenting in unequally yoked marriages, esp. "Raising Freethinkers".  It doesn't have to be about deciding which "worldview" to raise them with.  It can be about teaching critical thinking skills and providing them with opportunities to learn about a range of ideas about the world, gods, religions etc.  The choice of belief/unbelief will be theirs to make when they are old enough.  Both parents have a right to guide their children, these things can be negotiated, all in good time.

[bfuddled]

Thanks, I will check it out! On a side note.. how do you give "reputation" to people? I can't figure the darn thing out!

[VacuumFlux]

The problem with marriages based in Christianity is that the religion never teaches how to have healthy relationships, and in fact teaches a lot of very bad ideas. I grew up in a fundy bubble and really knew nothing else until college. It was a culture shock. I had some pretty unhealthy relationships after that, because I didn't know anything different. Like with, say, consent based ethics. I didn't have that. My partners generally did, but when it never occured to me that I had any right or responsibility to speak up when I was unhappy, they don't know to stop unless they're exceptionally perceptive. And it never occured to them that that was something that would need explained to me.

 

Fundies are taught that humans are so flawed that mutual, loving, respectful relationships are impossible. We were taught that humans can't get along without Jesus as a mediator. Both partners are supposed to put Jesus first, and their partner second, and then and only then can your marriage work out. We were taught that without Jesus to keep them in line, non-Christians are immoral people, and that being in a serious relatinoship with them will leave you with a broken heart at best, and you have a chance of becoming "impure" (and therefore severly limiting your odds at a good christian partner accepting you with all that baggage) or of your relationship with god being damaged. You aren't taught to work things out with each other when things go wrong; you're supposed to pray about alone and as a couple, and only with god's guidance can you resolve conflicts. You are taught that, basically, without god in the mix you'll never have a proper marriage. So when one partner leaves the religion, it's an attack on the foundation of the relationship, even if the people like each other in general and have other things in common.

 

Hell, fundies can't even have non-christian friends without viewing them as a project that needs salvation. If they can't even pull that off, how are they supposed to know how to have a healthy intimate relationship with a non-christian?

[Deidre]

The problem with marriages based in Christianity is that the religion never teaches how to have healthy relationships, and in fact teaches a lot of very bad ideas. I grew up in a fundy bubble and really knew nothing else until college. It was a culture shock. I had some pretty unhealthy relationships after that, because I didn't know anything different. Like with, say, consent based ethics. I didn't have that. My partners generally did, but when it never occured to me that I had any right or responsibility to speak up when I was unhappy, they don't know to stop unless they're exceptionally perceptive. And it never occured to them that that was something that would need explained to me.

 

Fundies are taught that humans are so flawed that mutual, loving, respectful relationships are impossible. We were taught that humans can't get along without Jesus as a mediator. Both partners are supposed to put Jesus first, and their partner second, and then and only then can your marriage work out. We were taught that without Jesus to keep them in line, non-Christians are immoral people, and that being in a serious relatinoship with them will leave you with a broken heart at best, and you have a chance of becoming "impure" (and therefore severly limiting your odds at a good christian partner accepting you with all that baggage) or of your relationship with god being damaged. You aren't taught to work things out with each other when things go wrong; you're supposed to pray about alone and as a couple, and only with god's guidance can you resolve conflicts. You are taught that, basically, without god in the mix you'll never have a proper marriage. So when one partner leaves the religion, it's an attack on the foundation of the relationship, even if the people like each other in general and have other things in common.

 

Hell, fundies can't even have non-christian friends without viewing them as a project that needs salvation. If they can't even pull that off, how are they supposed to know how to have a healthy intimate relationship with a non-christian?

what great insight. so true.

how strange that at one point in my life, i thought a relationship was meaningless without Christianity at the center of it. :/

[TheRedneckProfessor]

bfuddled, I recommend Dale McGowan's books on parenting in unequally yoked marriages, esp. "Raising Freethinkers".  It doesn't have to be about deciding which "worldview" to raise them with.  It can be about teaching critical thinking skills and providing them with opportunities to learn about a range of ideas about the world, gods, religions etc.  The choice of belief/unbelief will be theirs to make when they are old enough.  Both parents have a right to guide their children, these things can be negotiated, all in good time.

QFT