Isaiah 53

[bleedblue22]

I think Jesus existed and was crucified, but after having some hallucinations the disciples took the Isaiah passage and turned it into a story of resurrection.

 

What do you guys think of the suffering servant passage? Considering the context it appears to be talking about Israel, but the similarities to Jesus at first glance seem striking. Did the gospel writers use this passage as a template for their narratives? Was it intended to be a messianic prophecy? Or was it perhaps just coincidence?

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I think Jesus existed and was crucified, but after having some hallucinations the disciples took the Isaiah passage and turned it into a story of resurrection.

 

What do you guys think of the suffering servant passage? Considering the context it appears to be talking about Israel, but the similarities to Jesus at first glance seem striking. Did the gospel writers use this passage as a template for their narratives? Was it intended to be a messianic prophecy? Or was it perhaps just coincidence?

I don't think the disciples did anything with the Isaiah passage, given that the gospel were written decades after jesus' supposed death.

[DoubtingNate]

The Suffering Servant is the nation of Israel, is it not?

[mymistake]

The Jewish rabbis do not think it was talking about Jesus.  I don't think the similarities are striking because I think Jesus was fiction.  When we write fiction we can make the characters do anything we want.  So all the disciples can say things to make themselves look stupid to contrast themselves from the hero.  And all the throw away characters can be called "a certain man" because their names are not important.  Then as the reader we can laugh as Jesus tries to stay anonymous and fools all of the religious leaders and political leaders.  Their job in the story is to simply marvel at every word Jesus says while they can't figure out who he is.

 

Looking at Isaiah 53 the first thought that occurs to me is that Isaiah is talking about himself.  It sounds very generic.  Nothing about Isaiah 53 indicates it is going to be the Jesus story.  Rather the Jesus story ripped off Isaiah.

[centauri]

Isa 49:3 sets the stage for Isa 53, where the gentile nations express shock at the pending restoration of Israel, which was carryed off into exile and then according to God's plan will be raised up again, leading the gentiles to the one true God.

 

Isa 53

And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

 

Israel is personified throughout Isaiah (metaphorical theme writing), with Isaiah serving as the subject messenger and representative.

 

A restored Israel would show the way to the gentile nations and be their guiding light (not Jesus).

 

Isa 49:6

And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

 

God's law, as expressed through a restored Israel, would point the way to salvation.

 

Isa 51:4

Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.

 

Isa 56:1-8 outlines how gentiles would be welcome into God's fold if they observe the covenant of the Jews.

There is no Jesus involved.

[Adam5]

I think Jesus existed and was crucified, but after having some hallucinations the disciples took the Isaiah passage and turned it into a story of resurrection.

Hi - I agree with the second bit.  Early Christians sourced the old testament to put together the gospels.  But I dont think this was based on a historical Jesus, but rather the early Christians invented Jesus from personal revelations and midrash reading from the old testament.

[Sexton Blake]

Google: Is Isaiah 53 referring to Jesus?

 

It's an old and defeated argument, as the Jews will tell you about THEIR book.