BundyJem Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 Similar to another post but a bit different. I'm wondering how many still attend church and if so for what reason? Is it to keep parents, partner or anyone else happy? Is it because those people don't know of your deconversion? If they don't know about your doubts or complete deconversion do you dream about how you will tell them... Do you play scenarios over in your head? If you do go to church does the church (as a whole or in part) know you aren't christian? I guess I'm curious as to how you manage two worlds. Thanks.
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 I don't go to church anymore (I just couldn't stomach it for one minute longer) and I haven't told my fundy sister that I've stopped going yet. I love my sister and want to have a relationship with her, long term. I worry about what will happen when she finally asks me why I haven't mentioned god in a long time. I don't think she will be aggressive, she's more likely to try and "kill me with kindness" which would be just as sickening as telling me I am going to hell now. I guess I'm trying to keep this phase of relative ignorance going for as long as I can.
florduh Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 There aren't two worlds, just one with lots of people who hold differing opinions. Many who hold a minority opinion are fearful of how others may react so they lie to them.
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 There aren't two worlds, just one with lots of people who hold differing opinions. Many who hold a minority opinion are fearful of how others may react so they lie to them. I think she was meaning that in her life at the moment, there are two worlds. I experience the same thing. When your family, who you must or really want to interact with, hold a differing opinion on the existence of god(s), then it feels like you are trying to live in two worlds. 2
florduh Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 I understand, NZ. I'm just at a loss as to why everyone, even the non-believer, acts as if religious belief is the default position and right choice and everyone who doesn't see it that way needs to be careful not to disappoint, piss off or otherwise disturb the comfortable little fantasy world of the religious with their contrary view. Most Christians are eager to make their opinions known, most non-Christians in this society simply accept that and shut up to keep the peace. It's not right and won't change until we stand up on our hind legs and demand equal status among the theistic majority.
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 3, 2014 Posted May 3, 2014 I understand, NZ. I'm just at a loss as to why everyone, even the non-believer, acts as if religious belief is the default position and right choice and everyone who doesn't see it that way needs to be careful not to disappoint, piss off or otherwise disturb the comfortable little fantasy world of the religious with their contrary view. Most Christians are eager to make their opinions known, most non-Christians in this society simply accept that and shut up to keep the peace. It's not right and won't change until we stand up on our hind legs and demand equal status among the theistic majority. I agree with fighting against religious privilege. But I give the newly deconverted a pass on that because the closer-to-home realities must take precedence until they are worked through. I hope to join those on the barricades once I get a bit further along in the process. Doesn't stop me enjoying venting about it when xians are out of earshot though. That's what I love about this place.
Ellinas Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 I maintain the pretence because I am concerned as to the effect on my wife of my openly walking away. I actually think she'd be fairly O.K. with the "belief" side of it - she's shown a few signs of nonconformity herself over the years. She would need time to get her head around it, but she'd cope. She will not be O.K. with the damage it will do to a family and social network of which she has been a part for over 50 years, and I will not put her under that pressure. Just to be clear, she is the only reason I still attend. Had I not that concern, I'd have walked away years ago.
BundyJem Posted May 5, 2014 Author Posted May 5, 2014 Thank you for your responses. It is true, I am trying to live in two worlds (in the sense of different beliefs/non-belief) And it is because I'm scared. Feeling this way is not something I ever thought I'd feel. I thought I'd always toe the line and keep the christian hat on. I can see the freedom in living honestly with who I am and I am looking forward to that but at this point in time - mostly because I'm afraid of the backlash - I am keeping up appearances. And I actually don't like it. When I was in a similar head space when I was 14 the church could pass it off as a rebellious phase but this time (35) I know it isn't - just a phase - but I still resort back to that 14 year old thinking. And think they will too. I don't want to hear the usual platitudes. I've heard them enough the past 3 years when I have bought up doubts and thoughts and questions. Because I've been around the block a few times in the last little while and been accused of attention seeking I'm nervous. And because just less then 2 months ago I committed and promised (foolishly ) to submit to church authority, biblical leading, reading bible and prayer etc I am afraid of other people's reactions. I know it is something I need to grow a thicker skin and get over but I'm scared of losing everything that I know. I only have one person outside of the church that I would consider a friend. Which brings me to here - Ex-christian.net.... I just want to say how appreciative I am of the people here. The patience and honesty and understanding that the long time users have is refreshing. To read the same stories by different people, to hear the same complaints, the same worries and to respond to them each on their own merit is amazing. So Thanks - not that many of you will read this. Maybe I should make a thank you post
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 BundyJem, I can really relate to how you are feeling. Take some deep breaths and give yourself a big pat on the back for how well you are doing. We're so glad you're here.
DrNo Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 I initially kept going to church with my wife and family, but only for a few months. I knew that we were about to move to our current city, and I decided I did not want to make my wife's final few months in our old city to be even more difficult with people asking here where I was. I told her that after the move I did not want to attend church with her any more. This was difficult for her at first, but she accepted it in time. The only times I have been since then were for Easter or Christmas services, and that was just because extended family was in town and we were doing things together as a family. They know where I stand, so it was not even for keeping up appearances, but more just to spend time with the family. The experience was pretty mind-numbing. I think next time I will try to negotiate some sort of compromise, but I'm not sure what that would look like yet.
Storm Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 I still attend church and a bible study. Heck, I still play on the worship team. Although my wife is aware that I have been "struggling" with the things I believe, I haven't told her that I no longer believe. She knows things are different, but I just don't feel that things would be good for our marriage at this stage to justify me coming out. She has a very strong minded, fundi family and I am confident that my coming out would cause more problems than it would solve for me. So, I live in "two worlds" for now and the foreseeable future. Its a minor pain in some areas, but I am capable of handling it at this point. That may change in the future. We will see.
BundyJem Posted May 6, 2014 Author Posted May 6, 2014 Thanks NZ, Each day is a deep breath and I never seem to find a moment to exhale at the moment. Thanks for your story DrNo - Hope you can work out a compromise for christmas - only 8 months to work it out, hehe Storm - Thank you. I'm still attending church but have cut out the extra things that I used to do for the church - volunteer in the office, help out with youth (was forced out of those positions to a degree - I really should type up my testimony) I avoid communion and say no when I'm asked to be an usher (hand out the tithing bags etc) Since I promised to commit to church leadership etc they have been encouraging me to come back to participation - part of me wants to, a bigger part of me is annoyed at the idea of them wanting me to, and a part of me just thinks why? So I don't. Do you have friends outside the church that know where your mind is heading? Are you at all afraid of losing your identity that you have with your position within the church?? Last night I was thinking about this two worlds thing and what florduh was saying, and I know it isn't two worlds, just the one. But one that I'm not sure of where I belong. Like I don't quite fit anywhere. I'm past conforming to the church but have no one to show me how or where to assimilate into the secular arena, my past opinions have been smashed and new ones not quite cemented yet. And so I feel I'm stuck in a no mans land with familiarity all around yet a foreign landscape being carved out of the path in front.... I'm tired of looking at my facebook (after a 6 month break) seeing all my friends posts - I need some balance I think.
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 Thanks NZ, Each day is a deep breath and I never seem to find a moment to exhale at the moment. Thanks for your story DrNo - Hope you can work out a compromise for christmas - only 8 months to work it out, hehe Storm - Thank you. I'm still attending church but have cut out the extra things that I used to do for the church - volunteer in the office, help out with youth (was forced out of those positions to a degree - I really should type up my testimony) I avoid communion and say no when I'm asked to be an usher (hand out the tithing bags etc) Since I promised to commit to church leadership etc they have been encouraging me to come back to participation - part of me wants to, a bigger part of me is annoyed at the idea of them wanting me to, and a part of me just thinks why? So I don't. Do you have friends outside the church that know where your mind is heading? Are you at all afraid of losing your identity that you have with your position within the church?? Last night I was thinking about this two worlds thing and what florduh was saying, and I know it isn't two worlds, just the one. But one that I'm not sure of where I belong. Like I don't quite fit anywhere. I'm past conforming to the church but have no one to show me how or where to assimilate into the secular arena, my past opinions have been smashed and new ones not quite cemented yet. And so I feel I'm stuck in a no mans land with familiarity all around yet a foreign landscape being carved out of the path in front.... I'm tired of looking at my facebook (after a 6 month break) seeing all my friends posts - I need some balance I think. I limit FB to 3 times a week. Did you know you can unsubscribe to someone's posts without unfriending them? I have joined twitter and now see nonbelief-related posts from all kinds of amazing people, including leading athiests and activists. It drowns out the xian stuff I see on FB.
Roz Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 I am an atheist who does go to church to keep my family (no, really, it does feel like this sometimes heh). They know I'm an atheist. The church knows I'm an atheist.
Neverlandrut Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 I still attend church and a bible study. Heck, I still play on the worship team. Although my wife is aware that I have been "struggling" with the things I believe, I haven't told her that I no longer believe. She knows things are different, but I just don't feel that things would be good for our marriage at this stage to justify me coming out. She has a very strong minded, fundi family and I am confident that my coming out would cause more problems than it would solve for me. So, I live in "two worlds" for now and the foreseeable future. Its a minor pain in some areas, but I am capable of handling it at this point. That may change in the future. We will see. I recently stepped down from my worship team. I felt fake. I don't want people looking at me as a Christian example when I'm not one. Sometimes I wish I had not told my wife. Sounds like I have the same type of wife and in-laws you do. The cats out of the bag for me. We're going to a therapist next week to figure out how to deal with this. My wife sees us having the same beliefs as non-negotiable in a marriage. Anyway, I wish you well. Do what you feel is right. If participating in church still makes you happy without believing, then power to you.
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 I still attend church and a bible study. Heck, I still play on the worship team. Although my wife is aware that I have been "struggling" with the things I believe, I haven't told her that I no longer believe. She knows things are different, but I just don't feel that things would be good for our marriage at this stage to justify me coming out. She has a very strong minded, fundi family and I am confident that my coming out would cause more problems than it would solve for me. So, I live in "two worlds" for now and the foreseeable future. Its a minor pain in some areas, but I am capable of handling it at this point. That may change in the future. We will see. I recently stepped down from my worship team. I felt fake. I don't want people looking at me as a Christian example when I'm not one. Sometimes I wish I had not told my wife. Sounds like I have the same type of wife and in-laws you do. The cats out of the bag for me. We're going to a therapist next week to figure out how to deal with this. My wife sees us having the same beliefs as non-negotiable in a marriage. Anyway, I wish you well. Do what you feel is right. If participating in church still makes you happy without believing, then power to you. Just curious, is it a secular or xian therapist?
Neverlandrut Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I still attend church and a bible study. Heck, I still play on the worship team. Although my wife is aware that I have been "struggling" with the things I believe, I haven't told her that I no longer believe. She knows things are different, but I just don't feel that things would be good for our marriage at this stage to justify me coming out. She has a very strong minded, fundi family and I am confident that my coming out would cause more problems than it would solve for me. So, I live in "two worlds" for now and the foreseeable future. Its a minor pain in some areas, but I am capable of handling it at this point. That may change in the future. We will see.I recently stepped down from my worship team. I felt fake. I don't want people looking at me as a Christian example when I'm not one. Sometimes I wish I had not told my wife. Sounds like I have the same type of wife and in-laws you do. The cats out of the bag for me. We're going to a therapist next week to figure out how to deal with this. My wife sees us having the same beliefs as non-negotiable in a marriage. Anyway, I wish you well. Do what you feel is right. If participating in church still makes you happy without believing, then power to you. Just curious, is it a secular or xian therapist? A secular therapist, as far as I can tell. He is one of the few who makes no mention of a "Christian world view" on his web page. He has 30+ years experience. He's taught at the graduate level for several years as well. What got my attention was a statement on his web page saying that he specializes in cross-cultural and inter-faith conflicts. Sounds promising.
Ousian Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 There aren't two worlds, just one with lots of people who hold differing opinions. Many who hold a minority opinion are fearful of how others may react so they lie to them. Last night I was thinking about this two worlds thing and what florduh was saying, and I know it isn't two worlds, just the one. But one that I'm not sure of where I belong. Like I don't quite fit anywhere. I'm past conforming to the church but have no one to show me how or where to assimilate into the secular arena, my past opinions have been smashed and new ones not quite cemented yet. And so I feel I'm stuck in a no mans land with familiarity all around yet a foreign landscape being carved out of the path in front.... I'm not so sure I agree with the one world thing. There are two distinct worlds in my own life. My religious life is annoyingly prevalent. I still attend church with my family and am involved with a Christian group on campus. Furthermore, I'm fairly involved in my church (sound, nursery, ushering, youth group, few other things) and most of my friends are Christian. None of my family & very few of my friends know who I really am. I draw the line between this world and my atheist life based mainly on who knows about my true ideology. I've been introducing myself as an atheist to those who I can trust and new people I meet. It is true, I am trying to live in two worlds (in the sense of different beliefs/non-belief) And it is because I'm scared. Feeling this way is not something I ever thought I'd feel. I thought I'd always toe the line and keep the christian hat on. I can see the freedom in living honestly with who I am and I am looking forward to that but at this point in time - mostly because I'm afraid of the backlash - I am keeping up appearances. I completely understand how you feel, more than you know. The dichotomy between having to act a fake personality around people to whom you are closeted and actually being yourself is psychological and emotional torture. This weekend I went from having hour long discussions about how absurd religion is with a friend going through the same process to going to church the next day with a smile on my face. It's hard. Damn hard. I am as well scared of how people will react when they find out. It terrifies me. I know, however, it will be worth it. Living with integrity is incredibly freeing and rewarding. I'm never happier than when I am away from all the religious proselytizing and can actually be myself.
RipVanWinkle Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 "I understand, NZ. I'm just at a loss as to why everyone, even the non-believer, acts as if religious belief is the default position and right choice and everyone who doesn't see it that way needs to be careful not to disappoint, piss off or otherwise disturb the comfortable little fantasy world of the religious with their contrary view. Most Christians are eager to make their opinions known, most non-Christians in this society simply accept that and shut up to keep the peace. It's not right and won't change until we stand up on our hind legs and demand equal status among the theistic majority." florduh I think it is because the vast majority of people don't like controversy. And the closer you are to the people the less controversy you want. Most simply want to live their lives in peace without having to argue about spiritual or supernatural issues that have been in dispute since time immemorial. bill
Aiyana Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I am still brand-new in my deconversion. I went public with it on my blog almost two months ago. Pretty much everyone I know at church has read my blog now. My husband and kids still go to church. I haven't gone to a Sunday service in, oh, maybe a good six weeks now? I haven't written a rule for myself in stone yet. I have no desire to go to church, but would I be willing to go if my husband asked me to? Yeah, maybe. He actually doesn't go most Sundays. He is sometimes working, sometimes tired from working the other six days of the week. So that makes it a bit easier for me.
Aiyana Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 However, I am still currently part of MOPS (Mothers of Preschoolers) which takes place at church, and tonight I was there with my family to eat dinner. I don't have any problem doing that type of stuff.
Storm Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Storm - Thank you. I'm still attending church but have cut out the extra things that I used to do for the church - volunteer in the office, help out with youth (was forced out of those positions to a degree - I really should type up my testimony) I avoid communion and say no when I'm asked to be an usher (hand out the tithing bags etc) Since I promised to commit to church leadership etc they have been encouraging me to come back to participation - part of me wants to, a bigger part of me is annoyed at the idea of them wanting me to, and a part of me just thinks why? So I don't. Do you have friends outside the church that know where your mind is heading? Are you at all afraid of losing your identity that you have with your position within the church?? I struggle with the "serving" part. I have always served in the church since I became a believer. Now that I am not, its still something that I do. I cant explain why. I waffle back and forth on it at times. But I enjoy playing music and this is an opportunity to do so regularly. I mostly do it to maintain appearances, though. I am not really concerned about my identity in the church. I used to be, but now that I don't believe, its not really important to me. I do have a friend who I have somewhat come out too. I have a close friend from my youth that I have opened up to some, but I haven't officially told him I have stopped believing, but I think he realizes that I have gone down that road. He is a very non-traditional believer, so its not going to hit him as hard as with most of my other friends. I do not, unfortunately, have any non-Christian friends to talk to and hang out with. I mostly stay home and hang with my family. The only non church activity I do is meet with a friend every week to write music. We do have a local group of atheists that meets somewhat regularly, and I would be open to meeting with them at some point, but I would have a difficult time explaining what I am doing with them to my wife. So, that is on the back burner for now. So at this point, my only solace is on this forum.
Storm Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I still attend church and a bible study. Heck, I still play on the worship team. Although my wife is aware that I have been "struggling" with the things I believe, I haven't told her that I no longer believe. She knows things are different, but I just don't feel that things would be good for our marriage at this stage to justify me coming out. She has a very strong minded, fundi family and I am confident that my coming out would cause more problems than it would solve for me. So, I live in "two worlds" for now and the foreseeable future. Its a minor pain in some areas, but I am capable of handling it at this point. That may change in the future. We will see. I recently stepped down from my worship team. I felt fake. I don't want people looking at me as a Christian example when I'm not one. Sometimes I wish I had not told my wife. Sounds like I have the same type of wife and in-laws you do. The cats out of the bag for me. We're going to a therapist next week to figure out how to deal with this. My wife sees us having the same beliefs as non-negotiable in a marriage. Anyway, I wish you well. Do what you feel is right. If participating in church still makes you happy without believing, then power to you. I will come out to my wife eventually, but I think I am going to use the slow get used to it approach, rather than the rip the Band-Aid off approach. My wife knows I am questioning everything and she has called me out on my change in who I am in regards to christianity. She knows things are different. But I have not outright told her. I wish I could say that participating in church makes me happy. I cannot though. Playing music makes me happy, but unfortunately at this stage, I do it at church. Some day I will be able to do it away from church. Best of luck to you with the counseling and with your wife. I hope things work for you both.
Recommended Posts