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franknhonest

Eternal Sin

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I can guess what happened to you Jon

 

you went to a pentecostal type church,

 

the "being delivered unto Satan" to be taught not to blaspheme,

 

is one of their standard spiritual abuse routines

 

basically, what it is ...

 

they like to pass off that spirit thing they do as if it were "the holy ghost"

and if you are not going along with that,

 

they f your head over

 

You didn't blaspheme

and God didn't do that thing to you

 

Pastor likes to play god

ever see him slay in the spirit?

 

 

They are indeed dangerous people

 

I survived it Jon

 

it has not been pleasant

life it too good for that

 

I want you to know that it's not you

 

there are hundreds and hundreds of victims out there

 

and, I have survived it

you can to

 

Beverly

 

Oh, one more thing

 

I never did believe that was "the holy ghost"

 

I think pastor conjures that crap all by himself

 

and, that is the blasphemy, if you go by the bible...

the one sin that God will not forgive

raising up of false gods

 

and corrupting holy things

 

(that is how they control the congregation, first you get "infilled" and then... pastor plays god)

and, the jerk is most likely poorly educated, money grubbing, pervert

 

Beverly

 

Tell me about it... I come from a Pentecostal background... They like to use the whole "spirit-filled" thing as "evidence" of your conversion. People getting pushed to the ground or babbling incoherently as if it's some kind of a foreign language (my favorite is when they call it a "prayer language," just a way of trying to pass off this total bullshit)...

 

As for blasphemy of the holy spirit, when I was in my early teens, I was pretty much mortified that I had, in fact, once done that very thing! Then I heard a tape by some preacher who was talking about it, and gave all of these stories about how everyone who had done so died immediately after. I figured since God hadn't slain me on the spot, I was ok, and kind of forgot about it. Reading this made me think back to that time, and how stupid the entire thing was...

 

It's one of the things about fundamentalist/literalist morality, the way it separates people by creating ambiguous rules that make perfectly normal feelings, emotions and thoughts off-limits. It's like if you haven't said/done certain things, even though you have felt them, you are better than "weaker" people who act on how they feel. Yet another of the humanity-robbing aspects of such an outlook.

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You should read about the history of the concept of Hell, there is plenty of info out there about it. Most of the popular Christian beliefs about hell come from Paradise Lost, a work of fiction. The way I see it is that hell is for bad Christians, oblivion is for the rest of us. Do you remember what it was like before you were born? That is what death is like, no hell, no lake of fire, no eternal torture, no nine levels, all of that was made to frighten people into submission.

 

Religion is about power of the priesthood. For a long time the Bible was kept in the Latin language because the lower class couldn't read it. Therefore the priesthood controlled your destiny after death. This, of course, gave rise to abuse of that power since no one could question the authority of the church on spiritual matters until a few people like Martin Luther, and King James I decided to step in. Let us never forget that the church's history is about control. The fear tactic of hell is minor compared to witch burnings, inquisitions, burning people at the stake, forcefull conversions, murders and the like that the church has done in the name of a so-called god of love and peace.

 

Personally I fail to see how even modern day christians can call themselves christians when they are basically Paulists. Jesus was a Jew and didn't come for the gentiles, but for the lost sheep of Israel. It wasn't until Paul's failing ministry to the Jews around 95 AD that Jesus' message was opened to the Gentiles. Jesus said that he had not come to change Jewish law (practises) but to fulfill the prophecies (promise of freedom for the Jews) given in the Hebrew Bible. Hell, even Peter disagreed with Paul over allowing non-Jews into Christianity, though he was eventually won over through pressure. Any claim that Christianity is for everyone comes from Paul, not Jesus. Jesus' idea of everyone was every Jew. Christianity was a failure and had no where to go but to the Roman Empire, mostly the poor. The only reason Simon Magus ministry failed against Christianity was because his mission was to the rich, regardless what the Bible says. The only reason Mithraism failed was because of Constantine.

 

I could go on and on about the early church history, it is part of the reason I'm atheist, the other part is the Bible itself.

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Welcome Jon!

 

I can definitely relate with your feelings of depression. I've been suffering from it for years and becoming an ex-christian (its only been a few months for me), just seemed like another step in the downward spiral... there has been a lot of good insight and ideas on this thread so far, but I'd say the number one thing you should do is find your own path. The first step "off the wagon" is really really tough. And having those feelings of emptiness combined with the thought of "is there really nothing else" and "what if there is something else and now i don't believe, i'm going to hell now" can just compound your feelings of depression.

 

The biggest thing that has helped me is trying to learn more about the idea of religion in general. You'll find tons of links as you read through different posts here, or even some of the posts from the main site. The best thing you can do? Question everything. Find your own road. You've taken a huge step in saying that xtianity isn't right for you, so start your own search. You'll find a huge mix of people here from deists, to agnostics, to atheists, and everywhere inbetween. The best part? There really is no wrong answer.

 

As I was struggling from first being off the jesus-juice (hmm, that's a scary thought, isn't it?? :grin: ) I had a really hard time at first thinking, "if there is no god, why does every single human culture have some sort of religion?" i always felt like i was the odd one out. this site can definitely help with that, and just reading other people going through their own journey and finding their own truths i find extremely helpful. The support, encouragement, and honest understanding you'll find in this group of people here is simply amazing.

 

Again, welcome and realize that you've taken a step most of the 6 billion people on this planet would never dare take and you are not alone.

 

-Gliph

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Guest Iconoclastithon

This "blasphemy against the Spirit" business used to have me stumped for awhile, too. It is simply not clearly defined - yet another example of how Xianity cannot possibly be the truth. No god with half an ounce of understanding would give us such a bunch of convoluted mumbo-jumbo and expect us to decipher it and understand it as said god does.

 

Now dance, varmint! th_chaingun.gif:jesus:

 

Me too.

I thought for years that I had committed it merely cause the "thought" "fuck the holy spirit" entered my mind, for awhile I loiterally thought I was possessed, it tormented me all my christian years.

I had Christian friends try to explain it away to me; and even sice I gave up the faith I've had christians try to reassure me that I never actually committed this sin and that the Lord will bring me back to him again someday.

 

So, to be safe...

 

...I've Committed this sin in every way i can think of imaginable, every different way that Christians theorize this sin means, and more.

LoL!!!

I aint letin him get me back, he can go suck his evil sons cock and share it with the abusive father.

That wicked bastard!

LoL!!!

 

Now,excuse me whilst I go watch a porno, masturbate and think of raping the {Un}holy spirit while I do it, mmuuuaaahahahahahahahahahaa!!!

 

In Reasonand blasphemy supreme:

Icono

 

:lmao:

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Some helpful responses, thanks.

 

On the depression thing, the depression is a result of what happened but I would have thought that most people with depression don't get it as a result of a breakdown. The "breakdown of conscience" felt very much like a physical thing. Maybe "psychiatric injury" would be a better description, or "breakdown of consciousness". After the break, the "matter" which makes the consciousness complete drained away, leaving an empty shell. Although I am physically alive, I am not really alive to the world but in a sense have left it. Really I am already a dead man. The breakdown is not something I can fix, or I think that God can fix, since there is nothing to work with - no "inner conscious matter" which can feel. This means I am outside the sphere in which God can work. It's like there is a huge circle of consciousness - nearly all the human race within it, and the odd few people like me have stepped outside of it.

 

After the breakdown, the first two weeks got harder and harder until I had to leave work. Most mornings I was waking up in sweat. I smelt death everywhere (how can I describe the smell of death?). After a couple of weeks the sweating wore off. Then one evening when I was reading the Bible I felt an evil presence move into me. This may sound crazy but I could smell a thick scent of sulphur emanating from my hands. I can't really explain it but it was a deep, odious smell. The smell of wrath? According to the Bible I'm in deep trouble:

 

"...If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Rev 14. 9 - 11).

 

And another verse: "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF ALL HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev 17. 5).

 

Do I sound like a crazy lunatic? The smells wore off but the physical after-effects remain. If you want to believe they were delusions, I respect your point of view.

 

Unfortunately for me the Bible doesn't allow this blasphemy without consequences:

 

"..he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal damnation." (Mark 3.29)

 

I can understand why a breakdown of consciousness would be described as "blasphemy". It's something which affects fundamental human nature. Christianity says people are made in the "image of God", which I always thought meant everyone had the "imprint of God" on them. Consciousness is this imprint. It is the consciousness which can be affected by the Holy Spirit (the "breath of God"). Hence if that degenerates one has effectively blasphemed against the Holy Spirit, because the Spirit can no longer affect the soul.

 

I am of course filtering everything through my own understanding. I was raised in church and have not known any other teaching. I guess all I can do is continue and hope for the best when I die.

 

 

Jon.

 

Hi Jon,

 

The sensations and associations that go with them that you have describe are quite consistent with psychotic symptoms of mental illnesses such as schizophrenia. It is very important that you make an appointment to see a psychiatrist as he or she can properly diagnose whether or not you have a serious illness.

 

I suffered a mental breakdown in 2002 which lasted six months before I was hospitalised. After I was medicated, the sensations, feelings (such as guilt), and associations I made as a result of the breakdown eventually went away. I am now living a normal life and am starting to review with my psychiatrist whether I need to stay on medication in the future.

 

If mental illness is left untreated it can get worse and lead to permanent insanity. I strongly urge you to talk to your family doctor about getting a referral to a good psychiatrist, as you have nothing to lose by doing this.

 

Regards and wishing you the best of health.

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Now,excuse me whilst I go watch a porno, masturbate and think of raping the {Un}holy spirit while I do it, mmuuuaaahahahahahahahahahaa!!!

 

In Reasonand blasphemy supreme:

Icono

 

I think you might enjoy these two pages:

 

http://www.reverendatheistar.com/guaranteed_hell.htm

 

http://www.reverendatheistar.com/guaranteed_hell2.htm

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Hi Jon,

 

The sensations and associations that go with them that you have describe are quite consistent with psychotic symptoms of mental illnesses such as schizophrenia. It is very important that you make an appointment to see a psychiatrist as he or she can properly diagnose whether or not you have a serious illness.

 

Regards and wishing you the best of health.

I thoroughly agree with mostlyharmless on this, Jon. I'd hate to see you suffering needlessly, feeling all alone, from a medical condition which is recognizable and usually treatable. One of the things which getting to know the fine people on this site has taught me for sure is that Christian indoctrination (especially from an early age and/or the more Hell-oriented types) + mental/emotional pathologies = Big Trouble.

 

It's like throwing gas on a fire.

 

Please take good care of yourself: Give yourself lots of love, patience, percerverence and acceptance.

 

 

Loren

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Guest JP1283

I'm really enjoying this thread. It's helping me out, too. I hope that Jon is still doing okay.

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Guest Iconoclastithon

Now,excuse me whilst I go watch a porno, masturbate and think of raping the {Un}holy spirit while I do it, mmuuuaaahahahahahahahahahaa!!!

 

In Reasonand blasphemy supreme:

Icono

 

I think you might enjoy these two pages:

 

http://www.reverendatheistar.com/guaranteed_hell.htm

 

http://www.reverendatheistar.com/guaranteed_hell2.htm

 

LoL!!! :lmao:

Truly awesome, I just about busted my gut lauphing at the content of those links;

I loved that throw darts at the holy ghost game-I'm gonna share that with other apostates{perhaps some of my christian friends as well, to show em that their efforts to see come back to their stagnant lord are for naught}.

 

anyways, great work Rev.

 

In Reason:

Icono

:lmao::grin:

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LoL!!! :lmao:

Truly awesome, I just about busted my gut lauphing at the content of those links;

I loved that throw darts at the holy ghost game-I'm gonna share that with other apostates{perhaps some of my christian friends as well, to show em that their efforts to see come back to their stagnant lord are for naught}.

 

anyways, great work Rev.

 

In Reason:

Icono

 

<bows> Thanks! I'm glad you liked it. The first offering, of course, is from my good friend, Rev. Jeremiah. The others are from myself and others from this very site! It was something I posted in the Letters section some time back. It got some really good feedback, as you can see. If you'd like, you could make a contribution.

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There used to be a "blaspheme the holy spirit" thread somewhere on this board. Anyway, those who are so inclined to commit the unforgivable sin an join in as they see fit (I think you have to say it out loud for the incantation to actually work):

 

"Jesus was the father of all demons, and his miracles were the works of a demon. "

 

If you said it and meant it, you are now unforgivable. Damn! Another catch 22. How can you mean it when you don't believe any of the bullshit in the Bible to begin with!? Fuckers.

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There used to be a "blaspheme the holy spirit" thread somewhere on this board. Anyway, those who are so inclined to commit the unforgivable sin an join in as they see fit (I think you have to say it out loud for the incantation to actually work):

 

"Jesus was the father of all demons, and his miracles were the works of a demon. "

 

If you said it and meant it, you are now unforgivable. Damn! Another catch 22. How can you mean it when you don't believe any of the bullshit in the Bible to begin with!? Fuckers.

 

Can't we just imagine it? I have a great imagination. I see big Hellboy horns growing out of his forehead and wings spreading out his back as creepy horror music plays while he breaks into maniacal laughter. Then Mary Magdelane shows up in a black teddy carring a long whip....

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Doing fairly well - thanks to those who asked. Back at work full time.

 

It was a "physical" breakdown (something "blew" inside) and I can feel the after-effects. Just hoping for the best after death. In the meantime, I have to carry on.

 

 

Jon.

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Guest JP

Jon, you're going to be fine. Any deity that can get offended by simply saying something is a brat; certainly not worthy of worship. If God is as understanding as everyone says he is, he understood what were you were going through.

 

I know exactly how you feel. It's going to get better with time, and you'll realize that God isn't damning you; you're damning yourself.

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Guest Emerson

As a xtian, I used to be worried about this all the time. It drove me insane. Eventually some xtians told me that if I was worried about it then I haven't blasphemed the holy spirit, and in mainstream xtianity many believe that blasphemy of the holy spirit is NOT believing/thinking/saying "well fuck God, fuck Jesus Christ, and Fuck the Holy Spirit let them all go to fuck themselves in fuckage" um no! In mainstream xtianity, the basic belief of blasphemy of the holy spirit is when you reject Jesus Christ as your savior before you die.

 

Like if you NEVER, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever accept Jesus Christ as your savior in your lifetime, even the second before you take your last breath and die then you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit and God will reject you when you "cross over." You have to do what's right for you and your life, if you want to go back to xtianity then go back. You don't have to belong to "fundie" churches,

you can find a liberal one, just as there are different kind of people so there are different kind of churches to suit different type of people.

 

Frankly, I think its much harder for someone who doesn't believe in God rather than someone who believes in God even if that person is spiritual and not xtian, simply because the atheist can't run to God for everything and must accept that they have an end, that this life is it and take things at face value. I can't blame anyone for wanting to go back, its nice having God "there" for you. No one here can speak for you, you ultimately have to make the decision.

 

Personally for me, I still believe in God, but I can't take the man-made image of God. I've been through xtianity, even mainstream xtianity and I just don't want to go back to that. If you and I had been born in Japan, we would have been buddhists, a lot of times religion is regional. What of the societies who lived years before jesus christ supposedly came to earth? They made their own religions and gods, just like the founders of xtianity made their own god with jesus christ.

 

What about Anne Frank? She was just a teenager when she died under horrific situations? Will God reject her simply because she was a Jew? How could any God subject a young girl to horrors of hell after she's been through hell on earth? Yeah I know its not you and me, but its another human being and I just can't imagine anyone suffering like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi all,

 

I wonder what people think of this topic?

 

I thought I once was a Christian but an experience I had last year (April 2005) changed everything. I had a mental breakdown, went through an inner "death phase" and ended up with a void which is hard to explain. I had to take the rest of the year off work. For several months afterwards I was suicidal, although thankfully this has now worn off.

 

I don't read the Bible anymore, or pray or go to church. I have this knowledge that I made the biggest mistake possible. According to my experience and the Bible, I blasphemed the Holy Ghost. Somehow this is meant to make me worse than Hitler, Stalin, Chairman Mao and Pol Pot put together, although to me this just seems absurd.

 

The thought of eternal punishment in a lake of fire is bad enough but how can one cope with the idea of a punishment not only everlasting in duration but also infinite in degree? I may have made a big mistake but this seems way out of proportion.

 

What does everyone think of this?

 

 

Jon.

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If you and I had been born in Japan, we would have been buddhists

 

Exactly- this is the key thing that separates those who deconvert to those who grasp at straws. Exc's are able to accept that they are human and they would most likely have ended up in a differant religion if they were born elsewhere...while babble bashers constantly claim they would have ended up in the same position even if they werent raised in the American bible belt. Ya right. I think thats what I like about Deconverts from any religion.

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