Jump to content

Take Responsibility For Your Job


Recommended Posts

  • Super Moderator

 

 

Prof, seems like Isa 45 pretty much covers the sovereignty thing. Israel's sanctification/salvation for the earth to be inhabited because God says so. God seems rather adamant about that. Guessing the free will/predestination mechanism being the vehicle to populate earth with those who have acknowledged God in this way. So you present humanity with the choice and select those that said, Ok God, I don't understand, but I know you will prevail.

 

End3's theodicy....lol

Are you suggesting that we should just trust god despite the fact that he intentionally witheld information in order to blame Adam and Eve (and by default, the rest of us!) for the evil he created?  If so, can you explain to me how I can trust a man that I know lied in order for someone else to take the blame for his own crime?  Can you trust such a man?

 

What in you opinion would be the pinnacle of trust? The Bible does suggest this is a test, no?

 

The pinnacle of trust for me would be the ability to ask someone a question and know that it would be answered. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

[What in you opinion would be the pinnacle of trust? The Bible does suggest this is a test, no?

would you treat your children like this?
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Prof, seems like Isa 45 pretty much covers the sovereignty thing. Israel's sanctification/salvation for the earth to be inhabited because God says so. God seems rather adamant about that. Guessing the free will/predestination mechanism being the vehicle to populate earth with those who have acknowledged God in this way. So you present humanity with the choice and select those that said, Ok God, I don't understand, but I know you will prevail.

 

End3's theodicy....lol

Are you suggesting that we should just trust god despite the fact that he intentionally witheld information in order to blame Adam and Eve (and by default, the rest of us!) for the evil he created?  If so, can you explain to me how I can trust a man that I know lied in order for someone else to take the blame for his own crime?  Can you trust such a man?

 

What in you opinion would be the pinnacle of trust? The Bible does suggest this is a test, no?

 

The pinnacle of trust for me would be the ability to ask someone a question and know that it would be answered. 

 

 

A question like...

 

Will you please unequivocally declare your hand on the issue of the historicity of Genesis 1 thru 3, End?

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

So you present humanity with the choice and select those that said, Ok God, I don't understand, but I know you will prevail.

 

The typical answer by christians.  When they're being led to the stake, I'm sure many have thought this, and it gave them some measure of peace while they're being killed.

 

However, turn this around.  Sometimes it's christians burning other christians right?

 

How does that catholic priest feel when he's lighting that other christian?

BOTH christians server the exact same god, both FEEL it in their heart, mind, and balls that they're doing god's will.

Why serve a god like that? 

 

"I don't know, but I will follow you oh god."  As the priest lights the wood to burn that heretic.

 

"I don't know, but I will follow you oh god."  As that puritan hangs the other christian accused of being a witch.

 

"I don't know, but I will follow you oh god."  As that Israelite stabs a little boy as commanded by god.

 

"I don't know, but I will follow you oh god."  Is the very pinnacle of giving up your reasoning and free thought to follow the absurd. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest afireinside

 

So you present humanity with the choice and select those that said, Ok God, I don't understand, but I know you will prevail.

The typical answer by christians. When they're being led to the stake, I'm sure many have thought this, and it gave them some measure of peace while they're being killed.

 

However, turn this around. Sometimes it's christians burning other christians right?

 

How does that catholic priest feel when he's lighting that other christian?

BOTH christians server the exact same god, both FEEL it in their heart, mind, and balls that they're doing god's will.

Why serve a god like that?

 

"I don't know, but I will follow you oh god." As the priest lights the wood to burn that heretic.

 

"I don't know, but I will follow you oh god." As that puritan hangs the other christian accused of being a witch.

 

"I don't know, but I will follow you oh god." As that Israelite stabs a little boy as commanded by god.

 

"I don't know, but I will follow you oh god." Is the very pinnacle of giving up your reasoning and free thought to follow the absurd.

Religion is a meat machine, what a waste of human life to kill and be killed in the name of fiction. It's like: I will kill you because you said Goldilocks shouldn't have even been inside the bears house, that's heresy! And you claimed the Big Bad Wolf was only symbolic that's heresy! Burn fucker!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest afireinside

I do get annoyed when you take the time to answer questions asked by believers and they are just plain ignorant. They obviously only answer questions they aren't intimidated by. Can't they just be honest and humble enough to say "good question, you are right, God provides no answer for that"

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Super Moderator

 

 

 

Prof, seems like Isa 45 pretty much covers the sovereignty thing. Israel's sanctification/salvation for the earth to be inhabited because God says so. God seems rather adamant about that. Guessing the free will/predestination mechanism being the vehicle to populate earth with those who have acknowledged God in this way. So you present humanity with the choice and select those that said, Ok God, I don't understand, but I know you will prevail.

 

End3's theodicy....lol

Are you suggesting that we should just trust god despite the fact that he intentionally witheld information in order to blame Adam and Eve (and by default, the rest of us!) for the evil he created?  If so, can you explain to me how I can trust a man that I know lied in order for someone else to take the blame for his own crime?  Can you trust such a man?

 

What in you opinion would be the pinnacle of trust? The Bible does suggest this is a test, no?

 

The pinnacle of trust for me would be the ability to ask someone a question and know that it would be answered. 

 

So, are you going to answer my question or not?  Can you explain how I can trust a man I know lied in order for someone else to take the blame for his crimes?  And could you trust such a man?

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

[What in you opinion would be the pinnacle of trust? The Bible does suggest this is a test, no?

would you treat your children like this?

 

 

Of course! Everyone should know that a good parent will set their children up to fail and then blame them when the inevitable happens. A good parent would also torture their own children just to test their loyalty and obedience. Since the god of the Bible is supposed to be the perfect example of a perfect parent, then all parents should emulate his behavior, otherwise, they'd only be spoiling their children! wink.png

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The story of Job loses any sense to me when god kills Job's kids, and then replaces them later when Job stays loyal to god.  That's beyond my comprehension.  You can't replace your kids.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The story of Job loses any sense to me when god kills Job's kids, and then replaces them later when Job stays loyal to god.  That's beyond my comprehension.  You can't replace your kids.

 

 

To people in the Bronze Age children were the property of the alpha male.  Notice that the children die when God give permission to strike the possessions but not yet permission to harm Job himself.  They could not imagine our modern morals or ethics so they made their gods in their own image.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Super Moderator

 

 

[What in you opinion would be the pinnacle of trust? The Bible does suggest this is a test, no?

would you treat your children like this?

 

 

Of course! Everyone should know that a good parent will set their children up to fail and then blame them when the inevitable happens. A good parent would also torture their own children just to test their loyalty and obedience. Since the god of the Bible is supposed to be the perfect example of a perfect parent, then all parents should emulate his behavior, otherwise, they'd only be spoiling their children! wink.png

 

Exactly.  The bible is where our objective morality and family values come from.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What sovereignty?? 

How can god be sovereign and let 270 teenage girls be taken hostage in nigeria?

Do you honestly not question his sovereignty in light of what happens in the world?  

Why would god sit back and just watch injustice happen to innocents if truly sovereign?  Blaming 'satan' for such atrocities does not even begin to resolve these questions. 

 

Blaming "satan" for those atrocities elevates Satan to godhood by giving him sufficient power to cause (or prevent bible-god from stopping) them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Super Moderator

As I see it, sovereignty can wear two masks.  More may be possible, of course; but it would, in my opinion, be rather clear to anyone that a king can rule through love, or a king could rule through fear.  Those are the two most obvious masks which sovereignty can wear.  I know yahweh mentioned his everlasting love for us a time or two; but his actions fall more upon the side of sovereignty through fear.  Why an omnipotent god would need us to be afraid of him is anybody's guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The story of Job loses any sense to me when god kills Job's kids, and then replaces them later when Job stays loyal to god.  That's beyond my comprehension.  You can't replace your kids.

I think Job starts out as a victim but becomes more, I don't know what word to use here, enabling I guess.  It's like you want to take him by the shoulders and shake him and say Job, this bastard, Yahweh, murdered your family and fucked up your life forever.  Stop worshipping him!  What the bloody hell are you doing worshipping the guy that killed your kids!  I'd have a lot more respect for Job if he had at least told God to fuck off.  Probably he was too scared to do that, knowing he'd be overpowered.  But he could have done something other than grovel. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The story of Job loses any sense to me when god kills Job's kids, and then replaces them later when Job stays loyal to god.  That's beyond my comprehension.  You can't replace your kids.

I think Job starts out as a victim but becomes more, I don't know what word to use here, enabling I guess.  It's like you want to take him by the shoulders and shake him and say Job, this bastard, Yahweh, murdered your family and fucked up your life forever.  Stop worshipping him!  What the bloody hell are you doing worshipping the guy that killed your kids!  I'd have a lot more respect for Job if he had at least told God to fuck off.  Probably he was too scared to do that, knowing he'd be overpowered.  But he could have done something other than grovel. 

 

 

I sometimes wonder how the story of Job would have turned out if, after Yahweh's might-makes-right rant, Yahweh had said, "By the way, the reason all of this shit happened to you is because I made a bet with Satan and allowed him to torture you for no legitimate reason."

 

Maybe then the story would have ended with Job flipping Yahweh the bird and then getting swallowed by the ground. Wendyshrug.gif

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a family member that suffers from a chronic illness. It took three years to get a diagnosis and her life was hell during that time. I remember thinking about Job during all of that and it had an influence on my deconversion. What kind of god intentionally allows his people to suffer like that? I finally concluded that if bible god were real, he sure as hell wasn't worthy of being praised and worshipped.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Job was a part of my deconversion too.  When I was a xian I liked Job because it was the only part of the bible where someone went through awful suffering then had good things happen to them to sort of make up for it.  (I realise it doesn't make up for it, but stay with me).  I have been through a lot in my life and it was when I realised god never answered me and I clearly couldn't rely on him in times of trouble that my faith faltered.  I trusted god for a long time.  I was utterly conned.  god isn't there in bad times or good times, he just isn't there.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Super Moderator

 

The story of Job loses any sense to me when god kills Job's kids, and then replaces them later when Job stays loyal to god.  That's beyond my comprehension.  You can't replace your kids.

I think Job starts out as a victim but becomes more, I don't know what word to use here, enabling I guess.  It's like you want to take him by the shoulders and shake him and say Job, this bastard, Yahweh, murdered your family and fucked up your life forever.  Stop worshipping him!  What the bloody hell are you doing worshipping the guy that killed your kids!  I'd have a lot more respect for Job if he had at least told God to fuck off.  Probably he was too scared to do that, knowing he'd be overpowered.  But he could have done something other than grovel. 

 

Job's wife attempted to get Job to see essentially the same thing; on several occasions she admonished him to simply forsake yahweh as yahweh had forsaken him.  Pssh, men!  Can't tell them anything!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest afireinside

Job was a part of my deconversion too. When I was a xian I liked Job because it was the only part of the bible where someone went through awful suffering then had good things happen to them to sort of make up for it. (I realise it doesn't make up for it, but stay with me). I have been through a lot in my life and it was when I realised god never answered me and I clearly couldn't rely on him in times of trouble that my faith faltered. I trusted god for a long time. I was utterly conned. god isn't there in bad times or good times, he just isn't there.

My redeemer lives!?

 

Wake up Job you ignorant fool, God let his fall guy take away all you had and tortured you throughout the process and you call him a redeemer, your story stands as a testament to how willfully ignorant you are. You were a good man apparently why did you act so damn ignorant and let your family die as a result or were your wife and children just subordinate cattle if no value that you would actually humble yourself to call out to God to make it stop.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

What kind of god intentionally allows his people to suffer like that?

Only a god who believes in sacrificing innocent lives "for the greater gain."  (Funny, the Nazis had the same idea, and we all condemn them for it).  Only a god who clearly takes sadistic pleasure in observing horrible pain.  The story should have ended with a confrontation between the ghosts of Job's dead kids, and Job.  That would have been interesting. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.